Discussion Fairy Tail Power Ranking Thread

[Ramen]

Yes it is, It compete with unlimited magic aka FH. Hence it's unlimited boost of magic boost

Proof? Nowhere is this stated. Actually we've seen the opposite.

 

[Raven]

In a warfare, A coward warrior was forced to battle, He can't even raise his sword and what all in his mind is running away but he knows he can't do that because battlefield desertion bears the same consequences like getting stabbed in the heart..death.. Under a pile of corpses he finds his sanctuary and from there he watched....waiting.... for the inevitable, His fellows are butchered like cattle by razor sharp swords, and their skulls are getting pierced by hurricane of arrows, however, they are fighting ferociously and fear no death while he is quivering in fear and hiding. On many occasions he gets like a boost of self confidence when he sees his allies doing good but In his heart he always felt this battle is lost so this boost only lasts for a few seconds and ain't enough to get him up.

Days comes and goes but the war still raging and the stench of death is only getting stronger and it's only terminates any confidence for him to wield the sword, At night the warriors retreat to their camps and repose until the break of dawn, Getting prepared and waiting for orders and plans to start fighting again through the day. The coward warrior was retreating with the rest of the army to the camp and everytime he sneak under some corpses to protect himself and so on and so forth. At the end of one day, The coward warrior was trying to free himself from under the corpses but this time he sensed an abnormal movement within them, A wounded knight was still alive, He panicked and tried to run away but the knight clutched on his leg, He repeatedly stomped the knight's forearm to let loose of his leg and to catch up with the army, The coward warrior felt insecure and was very scared from this knight, He was haunted by the idea of the knight eventually get on their feet and expose him, He couldn't bear the thought of getting exposed and went back to finish off the knight once and for all.

Anger...desperation...frustration.. Mixture of said feelings drove him crazy, The coward warrior is now returning to the place of the wounded knight with murderous haste willing to take away their life, Upon the arrival, He finds the knight still laying on the ground unable to move. He could even hear their agonal breathing from a distance, He got relieved for a second, but he still have a murderous intentions. The knight feels someone is near and tries to gather enough strength to get his attention. " h-h-h-e-l-l-p " cried the knight, The coward warrior is shocked by the knight's voice, it has a high pitch sound, "could it be a female" he asked himself, The coward warrior hurried and removed the knight's helmet. "A WOMEN" he screamed.. The coward warrior felt depressed and ashamed, How could be a women have more courage and resolve than him, He reconsidered his actions and realized how pathetic he is, He confessed to the knight everything out of desperation but the knight fell unconsciousness, The coward warrior carried her all the way back to the camp and there they started treating her wounds.

The following day, The coward warrior is no longer a coward, He surprisingly fought in the front lines with dead heart and it appeared like he sought death, Maybe because he felt worthless or maybe because he thought once the knight wake up she would tell the commander everything and therefore getting him executed. Regardless of what he felt, His doings were spread like wildfire among the fighters and everyone had a good impression about him. At the night of this day, The female knight woke up and started to walk again, when she was checking on the reports of today's battle from her rally, She heard rumors about this badass warrior who fought like there is no tomorrow and caused a serious loss to the enemy forces, She asked them to lead her to that warrior but they struggled to know his name.

In the mean time, The grand commander called all the army to assemble and asked them to vote for someone who is worthy enough to be a knight commander, Everyone was searching for that unknown warrior but finally they found him sleeping and sent him to the grand commander's tent as their candidate, The grand commander asked the candidate, "Whats your name, warrior", He replied " Ryker". The grand commander sent Ryker outside to a high platform where everyone can see him. Ryker thought that he will be killed infront of everyone and his death would be exemplified as a scapegoat, The grand commander came out of the tent with his sword out and approached Ryker, Ryker kneeled as the grand commander raised his sword, Ryker closed his eyes...and waited the strike..... " I bestow upon you the title of knight commander " said the grand commander.. Everyone clapped their hands and whistled including the female knight., while Ryker rubbing his eyes to make sure he isn't dreaming.


The next dawn, The grand commander gathered all the knight commanders including the female knight and Ryker, He got news from his scout men, The enemy's rear side is totally weak and the archers aren't defended, and would make an easy target so he the grand commander's plan is to take his knights and flank the enemy with cavalry to turn the tide of the battle while the rest of the army push from the front since they will eliminate the archers from the rear, He assigned Ryker among the knights that will accompany him but the female knight stepped in and told the grand commander that Ryker isn't experienced enough in riding horses and lack training for such mission, She offered to take his place, Despite her wounds is still not recovered, He accepted. Ryker showed a sign of relief because he wasn't sure if he is good enough to handle this task.

It's now morning and everyone is in their position, The knights went with their commander and left the rest of the army in hands of Rykar, Rykar lead the army to the battlefield but upon arrival he was welcomed by hail or arrows from above, The enemy archers are in the front not in the rear while the swordsmen are protecting them, Cavalry are their counter but the grand commander took them to the rear hence they have no counter and suffered heavy losses and it forced Rykar to retreat back to the camp ,meanwhile, The cavalry team lead by the commander was ambushed by spear men which result in total inhalation of the cavalry forces. Rykar and the rest of the army waited in their stronghold for their commander and elites but there were no survivors but the female knight.

The female knight is now in charge of the army and she is very angry and wants to lead an army to face the enemy again, Rykar went to her tent and told her that surrender is the best option but she called him a coward and not worthy of being a knight and she dismissed him from the army and told everyone about his secret of hiding under corpses and playing dead, Now everyone got a change of heart and treated him like shit, They are ready to kill him but she the grand commander ordered to let him go.. " You saved me once... so i will let you go today... Go and live with your shame..... You deserve no fast death.. You deserve a prolonged suffering"...

Little did she know, Rykar packed up and left the stronghold with a big smile and being proud of himself and not broken like she expected, He joined the warfare as a weak man and left as a strong man. He learned alot about himself and got huge self confidences and new experience that will serve him good in the future, He wasn't really sad about what happened, He remembered the good times when performed well in battle and got promoted in return, Also leading entire army and saving as much lives as possible that day.

The end

 

[Ramen]

what was the opposite?

Natsu ran out of magic even with PoF against Mard Geer for example.

PoF doesn't = unlimited magic. It just makes the magic a lot more powerful.

 

[Raven]

Natsu ran out of magic even with PoF against Mard Geer for example.

PoF doesn't = unlimited magic. It just makes the magic a lot more powerful.

It was DF not POF.

You saw what pof Natsu does, It defeated FH Zeref.

I'd say both. Unlimited magic is more room to hit harder and generating more power.

Actually you can't prove that Pof is limited since it wasn't stated in the manga using your logic.

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 24, 2020, Original Post Date: Sep 24, 2020 ---

Generally i think when Natsu is in base and keep up with strong opponents is straight up pof. Like against rogue and sting, or against Zeref or that torando guy in the beginning. It has no laws. But i think it needs time to build up.

 

[Ramen]

It was DF not POF.

You saw what pof Natsu does, It defeated FH Zeref.

I'd say both. Unlimited magic is more room to hit harder and generating more power.

Actually you can't prove that Pof is limited since it wasn't stated in the manga using your logic.

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 24, 2020, Original Post Date: Sep 24, 2020 ---

Generally i think when Natsu is in base and keep up with strong opponents is straight up pof. Like against rogue and sting, or against Zeref or that torando guy in the beginning. It has no laws. But i think it needs time to build up.

You can't use my logic since you're the one making the claim. You said PoF has unlimited magic but there is no proof for said claim.

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 24, 2020 ---

Also @Raven it was PoF when he saw Gray go down against Mars Geer.

 

[Raven]

You can't use my logic since you're the one making the claim. You said PoF has unlimited magic but there is no proof for said claim.

It doesn't matter really, It's ambigous, There is no counter, Since there is no truth and left without obvious explanation from the author, and if you claim that it wasn't stated in the manga, Then you have to say where it says it's limited in the manga.

Also @Raven it was PoF when he saw Gray go down against Mars Geer.

Thats the fans interpretation and i disagree with it, You guys believe that Natsu can't tap into dragon force at will without external help. Then claimed it was pof. I'd say he just tapped in DF as last resort in that fight without pof involved. Otherwise, He would save his mp and just stay in base since DF consume too much mp and is useless if pof doesn't impact MP capacity. Moreover, Because you believe he use pof this fight, It doesn't mean he will to tap into stronger forms because of it. There are many occasions when he was in pof without tapping in DF, for example he saw future lucy dying and he stayed in base. Also when he was against FH zeref. He just stayed in base.


So staying in base and competing with high tier mages at the given time = POF

Gray also beat invel in his base when he got a pof boost. All events points that Mashima treats pof as a separated mod and that's my original point.

 

[Ramen]

It doesn't matter really, It's ambigous, There is no counter, Since there is no truth and left without obvious explanation from the author, and if you claim that it wasn't stated in the manga, Then you have to say where it says it's limited in the manga.

Ok so you have no proof? Got it. Nothing but headcanon.

I don't have to say anything. I never made the original claim.

Thats the fans interpretation and i disagree with it,

Ok.

 

[Axiomus]

And that's exactly why I don't think Igneel's fire is significantly above his physical attacks, Igneel fought Acno entirely without magic, that means if Igneel's fire is stronger he is overwhelmingly more powerful offensively than Acnologia, though I guess you could say Acno's Dragon Slaying magic killed him in the first place. But sure Igneel's fire prob is the greater attack, but that still doesn't change my overall point, god tiers are god tiers because of their baseline strength, not the type of magic they use, Igneel would still be Acno tier if he were using water dragon magic or whatever, just like Merc and the other Dragon Gods are.
And sure, certain magic is stronger than other magic, I've never disagreed with this, that doesn't put FDK above END though.

Yes, it's effects are entirely unknown, as is how it works. PoF could increase offense, it could increase defense, it could grant physical strength, it could boost magic power, it could simply refill your magic gauge, we have no idea what it does or at what point it even activates. Was Natsu PoF against Jellal after he killed SImon? He certainly should have been, and yet it seemed like it was Etherion and Dragon Force doing the work, not a magic power buff or a defensive buff or whatever it is you think PoF does. Same with Erza vs Azuma, was it PoF? Or did Tenrou literally grant it's strength to her? Same with Savage Natsu using guild flames.
So you can say "oh it's just emotion, nothing complicated about it" but I disagree, emphatically, because other characters don't get nearly the same kind of power, and even when it's the same character, the power they get is far from consistent. Warrod, a supposedly powerful wizard, begging in his heart to see Mavis again and protect the guild, couldn't muster the strength to even provide a challenge to God Serena. Erza against Jellal, after Simon died saving her and Natsu, couldn't muster the strength to battle Jellal. Jellal vs Midnight, couldn't get up to save literally the only person who mattered to him. Even Natsu against Rogue, after Rogue killed her right in front of his very eyes, even when he declared, literally crying, that he'd protect Lucy's future, he couldn't muster the strength to defeat Rogue.

This kind of inconsistency is why I generally never consider PoF in power ranking, it's power is no different than luckily finding an element you can eat, in fact it's actually far less reliable.

Acnologia's magical attacks would be stronger than his physical attacks too. Igneel's and Acnologia's magical attacks probably just stalemated each other when they clashed, like what we saw in the anime with Igneel's fire punches stalemating Acnologia's roar. The dragon's powers are tied, for the most part, to their biology. I don't see how you can expect Igneel to just learn some water magic, and expect him to be as strong as Mercphobia with it.

I don't think FDK is stronger than END just because "some magic are better than others". I think it's stronger because FDK's high end feats are better. Now you can argue that if we equalize MP and Curse Power, FDK wouldn't be that much stronger than END. Which is fair. But the two people that can actually use FDK flames are Natsu and Igneel. Both of which have the means of simply using more MP to make FDK attacks stronger than END's attacks. That's why I say POF making Natsu stronger is a reason why FDK is stronger than END, not an argument against it.

I really don't see how POF is that complicated. Emotions create magic power, which you can use at your discretion. In some rare cases, you connect hearts with the people you love and start sensing them....and that apparently gives you even more power. As a general rule of thumb, we can assume characters are stronger when they're emotional versus when they're joking around. If we start seeing signs that they can sense their loved ones, then we know for sure POF is at play. The rest is simply a matter of looking at their feats and comparing them.

Natsu is using POF practically all the time by default, because flames of emotion is a quality of his Dragon Slaying Magic. Erigor noticed it when they fought, and Natsu wasn't even particularly angry at that time. So to answer your question, yeah....Natsu probably had some degree of POF in all those instances you mentioned. And yeah, he had other power ups on top of that. Erza had POF when she fought Azuma too. There was actually a point after Erza got blasted when she connected hearts with Jellal and heard his voice. Then for the final attack, she had a vision of everyone in the guild. Definite POF involved in that fight. Unfortunately, life isn't fair and not everyone gets equal results using POF. It can't make Warrod a threat to God Serena, but it does make Warrod the strongest version of himself.

In any case, the inconsistency of POF doesn't mean it's the same as eating a power-up. They simply work too differently.

 

[Raven]

Ok so you have no proof?

Then don't talk when you don't have the proof that invalidate my claim.

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 24, 2020, Original Post Date: Sep 24, 2020 ---

I don't think FDK is stronger than END just because "some magic are better than others". I think it's stronger because FDK's high end feats are better.

I agree with that a lot, I put FDK above END because it has better feats and actual exposure, unlike END, who only got claws and was incomplete.

 

[Ramen]

Then don't talk when you don't have the proof that invalidate my claim.

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 24, 2020, Original Post Date: Sep 24, 2020 ---

I agree with that a lot, I put FDK above END because it has better feats and actual exposure, unlike END, who only got claws and was incomplete.

I do. It's called that nowhere does it show PoF have infinite magic. Actually we've seen the opposite. Natsu seeing his comrade go down unlocked his DF boosted by PoF. Those 2 can happen at the same time. We've seen it happen with Gajeel too.

PoF made Natsu strong enough to compete with FH Zeref.

MP =/= Strength and this is canon.

It's you who doesn't have proof. I do.

Natsu sees Gray go down and clearly gets angry, this is literal PoF:

Spoiler: 1

And after what does he say?

Spoiler: 1

 

[Raven]

I do. It's called that nowhere does it show PoF have infinite magic. Actually we've seen the opposite. Natsu seeing his comrade go down unlocked his DF boosted by PoF. Those 2 can happen at the same time. We've seen it happen with Gajeel too.

PoF made Natsu strong enough to compete with FH Zeref.

MP =/= Strength and this is canon.

It's you who doesn't have proof. I do.

That's not even close to be a proof, That's merely your interpretation that i don't agree with. We have pof Natsu staying in base without tapping in DF which shits on your claim entirely, That he needed pof to go DF.

no brainer

no brainer

If i don't have proof, then you don't have as well. why you even talk when you have nothing? apply your logic on yourself.

 

[Ramen]

That's not even close to be a proof, That's merely your interpretation that i don't agree with. We have pof Natsu staying in base without tapping in DF which shits on your claim entirely, That he needed pof to go DF.

You don't have to agree. It's what happened. No it doesn't because base Natsu after the Zeref fight could barely walk. He only could go DF after he saw Gray go down.

If i don't have proof, then you don't have as well. why you even talk when you have nothing? apply your logic on yourself.

I do. You are choosing to ignore it.

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 24, 2020, Original Post Date: Sep 24, 2020 ---

PoF does not mean unlimited magic. Simple.

 

[Raven]

You don't have to agree. It's what happened. No it doesn't because base Natsu after the Zeref fight could barely walk. He only could go DF after he saw Gray go down.



I do. You are choosing to ignore it.

Base Natsu went to fight acnologia afterwards. He didn't have to go DF if he was in pof as the manga showed him.

You don't have anything but nonesense at this point.

 

[Ramen]

Base Natsu went to fight acnologia afterwards. He didn't have to go DF if he was in pof as the manga showed him.

Yea....with the help of his friends. Yes he did. It was PoF against Mard Geer. He was yellling Gray's name and was angry once he went down. That's PoF.

You don't have anything but nonesense at this point.

I've showed scans and proofs. You have showed nothing so your words of "nonsense" means nothing.

 

[Axiomus]

For the record, I don't believe END has a special hax that counters Dimaria's time stop. I think that it's just a consequence of END being much more powerful than Dimaria. Same reason that Brandish's magic couldn't affect the seeds. Thing is, I consider FDK to be that much stronger too. If Natsu entered FDK mode and just stood close to Dimaria, he'd probably cause Dimaria to burn up in the same way Jacob did.

Now if you believe END has a special hax that counters Dimaria, then this is irrelevant. It's just a case of END having a counter to an ability FDK doesn't, and it doesn't tell us either way which is stronger.

 

[Ramen]

For the record, I don't believe END has a special hax that counters Dimaria's time stop. I think that it's just a consequence of END being much more powerful than Dimaria.

If he doesn't have a hax, then that means he just has more MP.

 

[Raven]

Yea....with the help of his friends. Yes he did. It was PoF against Mard Geer. He was yellling Gray's name and was angry once he went down. That's PoF.



I've showed scans and proofs. You have showed nothing so your words of "nonsense" means nothing.

You have scans that shows Natsu being angry without going in DF. You can't link DF with pof. You can link pof with anger.

I'm not sure how my respond will be if you typed more bs.

 

[Ramen]

You have scans that shows Natsu being angry without going in DF. You can't link DF with pof. You can link pof with anger.

PoF is just the power of feelings. PoF can be used with any mode of any character's. PoF can be used to boost DF which is what happened.

I'm not sure how my respond will be if you typed more bs.

It's the truth. Until now you haven't shown a single proof. You just say "I disagree" or "They aren't the same." They are not mutually exclusive as we've seen Gray use PoF with his DeS. We've seen Gajeel use PoF with his DF like Natsu. All PoF does is make the person stronger.

PoF =/= Infinite magic.

 

[Brandish μ]

back to normal now.

 

[Ramen]

Beauty.

@kianp67 How strong do you think Suzaku will be?