Discussion Fairy Tail Power Ranking Thread

[Ronin31]

Laxus was asleep. He wasn’t KO’d. We saw my guy lay down and rest, as he’s done before. He didn’t fall out. Though Double KO is faster to write than KO and taking a power nap

Falling "asleep" is different from KO ? When a wizard is "out of Magic", he is "KO" in this Manga.

Having a nap ? Yes, if you want... even if I disagree as I saw a Laxus without strength anymore to stay on his feets.

The result is still a tie, as both were unconscious. You can say Double KO is faster to write but both couldn't continue so yes, it's double KO by default as Laxus was helpless to Kyria and could die.

Spoiler: KO

If you consider Laxus > Erza because he could stand 5 secondes more than Erza on his feets, well I agree.
For me the result is a tie, just like END vs Grey. As Grey felt unconscious 5 secondes before Natsu, I still put them in equal footage.

 

[Loke]

Laxus>Erza. Double K.O. arguments only focus on the end result, not all the factors that went into leveling the playing field to begin with

 

[Ronin31]

Laxus>Erza. Double K.O. arguments only focus on the end result, not all the factors that went into leveling the playing field to begin with

In a battle or sport's challenge, you can dominate and not necessary put a win at the end. If the higher team looses, and the inferior team wins, what is your result at the end ? Who gains the bonus point ? The result is what is important. Here, it's a tie and you can't go against the Author's decision.

They have both different ways of fighting.
Laxus is destructive from the beginning while Erza is usually jobbing and analyzes her foe.
So I can clearly admit that, in the beginning of a fight, Laxus is way stronger than Erza is. But as she "grows stronger" with determination (breaks shortly her chains who hold back her true strength) and shield by endless durability, she can reverse the situation. Look Erza vs Kagura. It's exactly the same as Erza vs Laxus. So, if you judge Erza's level only on the beginning of the fight while not seeing that she holds back her might, then, you don't understand her way of fighting. You can say Kagura >> Erza in GmG and Laxus >> Erza in 100YQ. Both results show us they were not the case or we didn't read the same Manga.

If you know comics, this battle is like Thor vs Hulk. Thor is clearly stronger but Hulk grows in stats under rage and is also protect under endless durability. They usually finish in a draw but Hulk is depicted with limitless strength and durability Thor can't compete against. They are close range but with one having superior potential. Thor usually dominates more than half of the battles but, usually, is defeated or reconized he can't defeat a Berserker Hulk. Dominating is not equal to clear win.

But still, I agree with you about the factors into leveling the playing field : Erza wasn't at full power for half of the round and Laxus asked her to stop holding back.

Spoiler: Stop holding back

Laxus was also aware that against a serious Erza, his classic Lightning Thunder is not enough in order to defeat her : ("small attacks" are the one who crushed her Lightning Empress Armor, Kyria, Skullion and Mardmall).

Spoiler: Small attacks won't work

That shows that Laxus is aware of Erza's level even more than his fans who think Laxus crushes Erza.

So I only took Erza at her best in the fight, where she equally brawl with him and tie him in magic contest until both exaustion.
They are match.

Spoiler: Equal strength

 

[AmitDS]

Didn't Gray, Lucy and Selene kinda support Laxus > Erza in these past few chapters, though? Lucy and Gray talked about how great Laxus was and how great it was he was with them despite Erza being there and Selene outright stated that he's a contender for the strongest man in FT which automatically illustrates parity with Gildarts himself.



Erza struggled to tie with Laxus after he expended magic fighting Kiria and she fell first and got up last while he had stamina and magical power to carry her around and protect her with his lightning magic. Yeah they tied in the fight but that doesn't change who is constantly portrayed as superior and the challenge i.e. Laxus. Context matters.

 

[Ronin31]

Didn't Gray, Lucy and Selene kinda support Laxus > Erza in these past few chapters, though? Lucy and Gray talked about how great Laxus was and how great it was he was with them despite Erza being there and Selene outright stated that he's a contender for the strongest man in FT which automatically illustrates parity with Gildarts himself.



Erza struggled to tie with Laxus after he expended magic fighting Kiria and she fell first and got up last while he had stamina and magical power to carry her around and protect her with his lightning magic. Yeah they tied in the fight but that doesn't change who is constantly portrayed as superior and the challenge i.e. Laxus. Context matters.

Sure he is great. Laxus is a Fairy Tail's contender for being the strongest, just like Erza and Gildarts.
Yes, Grey's group didn't expect anyone to beat Laxus. Still, Cana told us that he was uncouscious. That shows that only Erza could do that.

Grey and Lucy can valorize Laxus in Erza's presence. It's relevant but that doesn't put him > to her. Grey and Lucy are always with Erza as a team.
Add Laxus and you add a powerhouse in the group.
For exemple, by analogy, if it was Team B facing Selene, Mirajane or Gajeel could valorize Erza in same way with Laxus's presence.
It's more about a powerful guest.

Like you said, context matters : reread chapter 50 and you will see that when the final orb was crushed, Toukà who thought that Aldoron will be White, lost her Magic in process. She was trap by Selene and then, all her White Puppets were restored in Magic.
I can post you the scans if you want, just ask me.

She fell first for seconds. So yes, if you want, Laxus is stronger for seconds, just like END was with Grey in Arbaless. For me, that shows a tie.
A win is like Natsu vs Gajeel. Gajeel couldn't move, even to protect Reby. Natsu could move and use Magic while he was close to exaustion.
Natsu wins here.

Yes, Laxus used a spell in order to defeat Kyria. Is it really an handicap ? Erza used Benizakura in order to "fight" Jellal.
Still, for me it's nearly irrelevant. If Laxus looses vs the Diabolos guy, will you cry he lost because he used spell on Madmole and Skullion?
It's excuses.

Yes, he could carry her so he was less injured at the end of his fight with Erza. What is the context ?
Erza add more handicaps while taking higher injuries than Laxus while she was holding back her strength for half the battle while Laxus stroke to destroy her since the beginning as he didn't want a simple querell between friends. It's not magical, it's logical.

But I don't take that in consideration, just like I don't take in consideration she was fighting a friend, not an ennemy while he was brainwatch.
I only took the second part where they were perfectly even.

Like I said above, Erza is never at her best at the beginning of the battles : she is like a Diesel. Selene could say that Laxus is the strongest in the Labyrinth that I should not be shocked. Let her getting warm and she will put strength equal to his comrade.

In there different ways to fight, sure Laxus has domination over the battlefield. Still, he couldn't break through her stamina and durability to crush her while she was going stronger in process. It doesn't change the fact of the tie.

Still you can't go against Author's decision about draw battle when it's explicite : 3 sentences and pictures :
- I used all my power.... I lost.... I will win next time, definitely : Erza told us she lost.
- That's my Lines (counterpart to : I lost but I will win next time)... I am also out of Magic (counterpart to I used all my power) : Laxus told us that he lost in same way.
- The two monsters beat out each others : Kyria who watched the fight.

 

[AmitDS]

Sure he is great. Laxus is a Fairy Tail's contender for being the strongest, just like Erza and Gildarts.
Yes, Grey's group didn't expect anyone to beat Laxus. Still, Cana told us that he was uncouscious. That shows that only Erza could do that.

Grey and Lucy can valorize Laxus in Erza's presence. It's relevant but that doesn't put him > to her. Grey and Lucy are always with Erza as a team.
Add Laxus and you add a powerhouse in the group.
For exemple, by analogy, if it was Team B facing Selene, Mirajane or Gajeel could valorize Erza in same way with Laxus's presence.
It's more about a powerful guest.

Like you said, context matters : reread chapter 50 and you will see that when the final orb was crushed, Toukà who thought that Aldoron will be White, lost her Magic in process. She was trap by Selene and then, all her White Puppets were restored in Magic.
I can post you the scans if you want, just ask me.

She fell first for seconds. So yes, if you want, Laxus is stronger for seconds, just like END was with Grey in Arbaless. For me, that shows a tie.
A win is like Natsu vs Gajeel. Gajeel couldn't move, even to protect Reby. Natsu could move and use Magic while he was close to exaustion.
Natsu wins here.

Yes, Laxus used a spell in order to defeat Kyria. Is it really an handicap ? Erza used Benizakura in order to "fight" Jellal.
Still, for me it's nearly irrelevant. If Laxus looses vs the Diabolos guy, will you cry he lost because he used spell on Madmole and Skullion?
It's excuses.

Yes, he could carry her so he was less injured at the end of his fight with Erza. What is the context ?
Erza add more handicaps while taking higher injuries than Laxus while she was holding back her strength for half the battle while Laxus stroke to destroy her since the beginning as he didn't want a simple querell between friends. It's not magical, it's logical.

But I don't take that in consideration, just like I don't take in consideration she was fighting a friend, not an ennemy while he was brainwatch.
I only took the second part where they were perfectly even.

Like I said above, Erza is never at her best at the beginning of the battles : she is like a Diesel. Selene could say that Laxus is the strongest in the Labyrinth that I should not be shocked. Let her getting warm and she will put strength equal to his comrade.

In there different ways to fight, sure Laxus has domination over the battlefield. Still, he couldn't break through her stamina and durability to crush her while she was going stronger in process. It doesn't change the fact of the tie.

Still you can't go against Author's decision about draw battle when it's explicite : 3 sentences and pictures :
- I used all my power.... I lost.... I will win next time, definitely : Erza told us she lost.
- That's my Lines (counterpart to : I lost but I will win next time)... I am also out of Magic (counterpart to I used all my power) : Laxus told us that he lost in same way.
- The two monsters beat out each others : Kyria who watched the fight.

I already had this argument with you IIRC and I really don't care to have it again. You can believe what you wish.

However despite their tie Mashima has given Laxus better hype and a better portrayal.

 

[Ronin31]

However despite their tie Mashima has given Laxus better hype and a better portrayal.

If you want.... I have no problem with that.
Laxus is a Badass Explosive Machine. Erza is more like an Unbreakable Shield.
What happens when the best weapon collides with the best shield ? It's both destruction. As their result.

You can believe what you wish.

Of course. Everyone is free to think or to believe.
I only read the Manga with the author's statements that put them on equal term. They are two of the three FT's Aces.
Both are monsters.

 

[GL_Nova]

If you want.... I have no problem with that.
Laxus is a Badass Explosive Machine. Erza is more like an Unbreakable Shield.
What happens when the best weapon collides with the best shield ? It's both destruction. As their result.



Of course. Everyone is free to think or to believe.
I only read the Manga with the author's statements that put them on equal term. They are two of the three FT's Aces.
Both are monsters.

FT has one Ace, Gildarts is still unquestionably on top.

 

[Seahorse]

FT has one Ace, Gildarts is still unquestionably on top.

It's not that unquestionable now.
It's pretty obvious that RL Laxus/DS Enchanted Erza > x792 Gildarts.
Since Gildarts has shown no feats in x793 so far, it's only speculation that he's still the Ace.

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 28, 2021, Original Post Date: Nov 28, 2021 ---

There's one interesting fact about Laxus that I'd just realized: Laxus is the only major protagonist in FT who's never faced any opponent on his own that's tiers above/massively stronger than him.

Mirajane fought Seilah. Jellal fought August. Gajeel fought Bloodman. Erza fought Irene. Hell even Gildarts had his ass kicked hard by August.

Only twice has Laxus faced opponents who's tiers above him: Hades and Acnologia. Both times he had POF Natsu by his side to rely on so he didn't have to do nothing lol.

When on his own, Laxus only fought opponents who's on the same level or weaker than him. GMG Jura was arguably on the same level as GMG Laxus. Wahl - without his Etherion - could only fight on par with a double-nerfed Laxus. Enchanted Erza was on the same level as RL Laxus. The rest (Orga, Tempesta, Kiria, Madmole, Skullion etc) were all fodders.

I really don't know if it's a good thing or a bad thing for him. Surely it's cool to always stomp your opponents, but fighting stronger opponents would give you POF and power boost. And DF too.

 

[Sevently]

It's not that unquestionable now.
It's pretty obvious that RL Laxus/DS Enchanted Erza > x792 Gildarts.
Since Gildarts has shown no feats in x793 so far, it's only speculation that he's still the Ace.

Based on what are RL Laxus/DS Enchanted Erza > x792 Gildarts..? I can see Laxus close to his level but still not stronger than him.
They both only defeated characters who are fodders to x792 Gildarts.

 

[Seahorse]

Based on what are RL Laxus/DS Enchanted Erza > x792 Gildarts..? I can see Laxus close to his level but still not stronger than him.
They both only defeated characters who are fodders to x792 Gildarts.

No. Kiria, Madmole and Skullion are not fodders to x792 Gildarts. They're all average spriggan level if not higher.
Fodderizing Kiria, Madmole and Skullion pretty much put Laxus higher than x792 Gildarts.
Erza for tying with with Laxus.

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 28, 2021, Original Post Date: Nov 28, 2021 ---

Based on feats I believe August was two tiers above x792 Gildarts. Current Laxus and Erza should be put on the tier between them.

 

[WoWfan]

No. Kiria, Madmole and Skullion are not fodders to x792 Gildarts. They're all average spriggan level if not higher.
Fodderizing Kiria, Madmole and Skullion pretty much put Laxus higher than x792 Gildarts.
Erza for tying with with Laxus.

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 28, 2021, Original Post Date: Nov 28, 2021 ---

Based on feats I believe August was two tiers above x792 Gildarts. Current Laxus and Erza should be put on the tier between them.

I don’t think that is how that works, I mean Natsu was not using any of his fire magic against Wraith and he said Natsu was at Madmole level, and when he became stronger when he possessed Makarov, Natsu said Makarov was stronger than that when he used his stronger spell, and that would mean even average Spriggans are stronger since they scale above him.

 

[Sevently]

No. Kiria, Madmole and Skullion are not fodders to x792 Gildarts. They're all average spriggan level if not higher.
Fodderizing Kiria, Madmole and Skullion pretty much put Laxus higher than x792 Gildarts.
Erza for tying with with Laxus.

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 28, 2021, Original Post Date: Nov 28, 2021 ---

Based on feats I believe August was two tiers above x792 Gildarts. Current Laxus and Erza should be put on the tier between them.

Of course they are, they are even fodders to x792 Laxus. They are all low spriggan level.
x792 Gildarts would murder the trio, and if you think he wouldn't, then you are lowballing Gildarts too much.

 

[Seahorse]

Of course they are, they are even fodders to x792 Laxus. They are all low spriggan level.
x792 Gildarts would murder the trio, and if you think he wouldn't, then you are lowballing Gildarts too much.

Gildarts mid-diffed Dead Serena who should be on low spriggan level too

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 29, 2021, Original Post Date: Nov 29, 2021 ---

I don’t think that is how that works, I mean Natsu was not using any of his fire magic against Wraith and he said Natsu was at Madmole level, and when he became stronger when he possessed Makarov, Natsu said Makarov was stronger than that when he used his stronger spell, and that would mean even average Spriggans are stronger since they scale above him.

He only said Natsu was on Madmole level in terms of raw power, and that's actually a compliment for Natsu because obviously he thought that Madmole was the strongest in his guild (w/o BDSK) when it comes to raw power. Also I don't really think that Wraith and Nebal were on the same level as the trio (not sure about Wraith but Nebal was obviously much weaker)

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 29, 2021, Original Post Date: Nov 29, 2021 ---

Anyway tomorrow should be the day that we could finally come to the conlusion whether they've surpassed x792 Gildarts or not, as Kirin, Misaki and Suzaku should all be August/Irene level if not higher. If Laxus doesn't get stomped by Kirin then he's probably surpassed x792 Gildarts.

 

[GL_Nova]

It's not that unquestionable now.
It's pretty obvious that RL Laxus/DS Enchanted Erza > x792 Gildarts.
Since Gildarts has shown no feats in x793 so far, it's only speculation that he's still the Ace.

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 28, 2021, Original Post Date: Nov 28, 2021 ---

There's one interesting fact about Laxus that I'd just realized: Laxus is the only major protagonist in FT who's never faced any opponent on his own that's tiers above/massively stronger than him.

Mirajane fought Seilah. Jellal fought August. Gajeel fought Bloodman. Erza fought Irene. Hell even Gildarts had his ass kicked hard by August.

Only twice has Laxus faced opponents who's tiers above him: Hades and Acnologia. Both times he had POF Natsu by his side to rely on so he didn't have to do nothing lol.

When on his own, Laxus only fought opponents who's on the same level or weaker than him. GMG Jura was arguably on the same level as GMG Laxus. Wahl - without his Etherion - could only fight on par with a double-nerfed Laxus. Enchanted Erza was on the same level as RL Laxus. The rest (Orga, Tempesta, Kiria, Madmole, Skullion etc) were all fodders.

I really don't know if it's a good thing or a bad thing for him. Surely it's cool to always stomp your opponents, but fighting stronger opponents would give you POF and power boost. And DF too.

GMG Jura was on Gildarts lvl before he left the guild. It’s why that was the comparison continually made. So that one falls through. An literally all the rest you named as fodders, have either presented a challenge for the main team (Orga is top of Saber, Tempesta vs Natsu) or bested them (Erza, Natsu, Elfman, Mira, Gray) so unless your calling the rest of the guild fodder to Laxus, I’m not sure that’s the point you wanted to make.

An WOG, Mashima said Gildarts is too powerful to be in this battle.

 

[Seahorse]

GMG Jura was on Gildarts lvl before he left the guild. It’s why that was the comparison continually made. So that one falls through. An literally all the rest you named as fodders, have either presented a challenge for the main team (Orga is top of Saber, Tempesta vs Natsu) or bested them (Erza, Natsu, Elfman, Mira, Gray) so unless your calling the rest of the guild fodder to Laxus, I’m not sure that’s the point you wanted to make.

An WOG, Mashima said Gildarts is too powerful to be in this battle.

I guess I didn't make my point clear enough. Those opponents might not be fodders but they're in no way stronger than Laxus. My point is that Laxus, when he's got no one else to rely on, has never fought any opponent that's tiers above himself. The only one among major protagonists.

 

[GL_Nova]

I guess I didn't make my point clear enough. Those opponents might not be fodders but they're in no way stronger than Laxus. My point is that Laxus, when he's got no one else to rely on, has never fought any opponent that's tiers above himself. The only one among major protagonists.

Which I countered with the Jura fight, lol. Laxus was on par with Orga. An had to raise to the occasion with the Jura fight. Hence the whole him also getting slammed during his first rush.

 

[Seahorse]

Which I countered with the Jura fight, lol. Laxus was on par with Orga. An had to raise to the occasion with the Jura fight. Hence the whole him also getting slammed during his first rush.

But I think people realized back during GMG arc that Laxus had always been more or less on the same tier with Jellal and Jura right? People came to the conclusion back in the days that Laxus fought on par with Orga only because of the DS to GS disadvantage.

I mean, by hype, Orga = Rufus < Rogue = Sting << Minerva. So unless GMG Laxus was on the same level as GMG Gray, weaker than GMG Natsu and Gajeel, and at least a tier below GMG Erza, it woudn't make sense that he was really on par with Orga.

 

[WoWfan]

I am not so sure about that them not being in the same league, I mean those trio we saw were only really lucky, hax or uses FT’s weakness to their advantage.

 

[GL_Nova]

But I think people realized back during GMG arc that Laxus had always been more or less on the same tier with Jellal and Jura right? People came to the conclusion back in the days that Laxus fought on par with Orga only because of the DS to GS disadvantage.

I mean, by hype, Orga = Rufus < Rogue = Sting << Minerva. So unless GMG Laxus was on the same level as GMG Gray, weaker than GMG Natsu and Gajeel, and at least a tier below GMG Erza, it woudn't make sense that he was really on par with Orga.

I mean, we found on Tenrou that Laxus was on the same tier as opponents like Blue Note and Gildarts and Hades, but it’s still a tier. He and Orga had to be comparable for the slayer advantage to kick in, as we’ve seen from the other GS in the series battles. An Jellal had to debut his only good guy spell stronger than chariot. So we know he’s closer to Laxus and Orga end of the tier as well. Laxus beating Jura, who is directly compared to Gildarts was shown to require him pulling out all the stops. It was a big battle, and he was on the back foot for the most of it. An by hype Orga=Minerva the only ones stated to be strongest in the guild. If you can find that claim for Rufus let me know, also feel free to just explain what in the world gave you that idea lol.

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 30, 2021, Original Post Date: Nov 30, 2021 ---

I am not so sure about that them not being in the same league, I mean those trio we saw were only really lucky, hax or uses FT’s weakness to their advantage.

Yeah, no. Kiria matched Erza blow for blow, she literally broke her red pants blade and forced her to reveal the special sword she used on Laxus. Please put that “only hax” excuse to rest. All the way. Same for Madmole and Skullion. Mira found a way to damage him, Elfman found a way to damage him. Natsu had to get creative but he did (and Madmole ate that shit…) Gray is the only one who simply didn’t rise to the occasion at all. Those victories were earned, and valid. Laxus just beat they asses because the gap is real. Always has been