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Minerva and Kagura are beaten by Lucy.
Discussion Fairy Tail Power Ranking Thread
- Thread starter Firepower
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Nope.
Kagura is faster than Lucy is with any stardress. Kagura's speed was praised by base Dimaria and Larcarde. When did Lucy show relevant speed feats besides surpassing Kiria in a sword fight when the latter was fighting without being serious?
Kagura and Minerva would never been pressed by Kiria like Lucy was in the image below. There is no way. Minerva was agile against Lucy Signario. Lucy's reaction time is just regular. Kagura and Minerva are faster than her.
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Nope.
Kagura is faster than Lucy is with any stardress. Kagura's speed was praised by base Dimaria and Larcarde. When did Lucy show relevant speed feats besides surpassing Kiria in a sword fight when the latter was fighting without being serious?
Kagura and Minerva would never been pressed by Kiria like Lucy was in the image below. There is no way. Minerva was agile against Lucy Signario. Lucy's reaction time is just regular. Kagura and Minerva are faster than her.
Kiria was able to fight Erza (post Alvarez Arc) and follow her movements, surprising her at several moments. This already shows how superior Kiria is over Kagura and Minerva.
Erza from the Mercphobia arc would defeat Dimaria and would take off Lacarde's finger with his blade (unlike Kagura who was easily stopped by Lacarde), so please don't overestimate Kagura.
And you're using a part of the confrontation where Lucy had to wear Aries' dress because Kiria cut the scissors out of Cancer's dress.
Using Cancer's Star Dress, Lucy managed to match Kiria and even surprised her in combat (she undid her clothes). It was necessary for Kiria to use her magic to cut Cancer's scissors so that she could gain an advantage over Lucy.
That's why Lucy switched to a defensive form, Aries Form.
In combat, Lucy would have no difficulty keeping up with Kagura and Minerva.
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Your argument doesn't make sense. Lucy didn't keep up with Kiria's speed when Kiria became serious about defeating her. A serious Kiria was getting difficult to fight a not-serious Erza. So Erza without trying hard> Kiria > Lucy.
Kagura and Mineva get real feats in speed against opponents stronger than Lucy. Kiria demolished Lucy in strength and speed since Lucy often wasn't able to defend herself.
Luso's giant plushes were able to hit Erza directly in Erza X Lucy, and Minerva was shown evading some giant plush pushes, so Minerva >> Lucy in speed.
Kagura's speed feat against Larcard is above Lucy's too.
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Your argument doesn't make sense. Lucy didn't keep up with Kiria's speed when Kiria became serious about defeating her. A serious Kiria was getting difficult to fight a not-serious Erza. So Erza without trying hard> Kiria > Lucy.
Kagura and Mineva get real feats in speed against opponents stronger than Lucy. Kiria demolished Lucy in strength and speed since Lucy often wasn't able to defend herself.
Luso's giant plushes were able to hit Erza directly in Erza X Lucy, and Minerva was shown evading some giant plush pushes, so Minerva >> Lucy in speed.
Kagura's speed feat against Larcard is above Lucy's too.
Are you using a fight where Luso Signario was toying with Minerva to indicate that she possesses great feats of speed? If I follow your reasoning, I can say that Lucy has better achievements for facing Athena, the weapon capable of destroying Dragon Gods. Laughter.
And is this stuffed animal argument serious? Lol. Lucy must be impressive then for dodging ATHENA'S LASERS.
Regarding Kagura, she dodged an attack from Lacarde. Just that, she never showed herself to be a threat to him. Hiro even showed Lacarde stopping her with a finger to demonstrate how inferior Kagura was to Lacarde.
Regarding Lucy and Kiria, you are wrong. Kiria had the advantage over Lucy because she used her Dragon Slayer magic which allows her to cut through anything. This is Kiria's most powerful ability, which has also been shown to be capable of destroying Erza's Benizakura.
But before Kiria used her trump card, Lucy was able to match her in blade combat, being able to surpass Kiria. Lucy began to lose the advantage in battle because Kiria's raw power overwhelmed her defenses and prevented Lucy from being able to fight her at close range.
Regarding Erza, she didn't use everything against Kiria, but she used her best "armor" (benizakura and pants) in the confrontation. Very different from what happened against Luso Signario, since Erza didn't make any effort to face her (we saw what happened when Erza wanted to defeat Luso).
Erza's fight against Kiria is far above anything Minerva and Kagura have done in the manga. And Kiria is much more powerful than these two characters.
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Athena's lasers have 0 feats, and even Yukino was able to dodge them. Sting could put his mouth on it. lol
Luso giant plush, however, could hit Erza directly:
The power of the plushies is solidified by Erza being hit by it. Minerva dodged one of these plushes punches who was covering a relevant area of the floor:
Lucy's "swords" are destroyed, yes, but only because Lucy couldn't surpass Kiria in the "sword dance". Lucy needed to put a defensive position and, because of it, her scissors were broken. After that, she was kicked and flew away because she didn't have quick reactions to make a counter-attack.
Let me remind you that Jellal was eluding Kiria's cuts as if they were just a random attack.
Erza casually was hitting Kiria in their spare. Kiria wasn't good enough with the sword to hurt Erza.
Lucy could surpass Kiria for a while because Kiria wasn't serious (since the beginning she said Lucy was trash). After Kiria became serious, Lucy was put on the defensive form and was destroyed in the fight.
Lucy doesn't show anything in terms of speed that makes her able to keep up with Kagura and Minerva. (Kagura being destroyed by Larcarde, the third strongest Spriggan, doesn't change her speed feat. Lucy wearing a stardress needed to be saved from Jacob's knife in the same arc ).
Lucy will be destroyed by Mirajane, Minerva, or Kagura in a fight as she was by Kiria. Lucy can't keep up with the speed sequence of spells and corporal attacks that the rank S mages will put on her. Thus, Minerva > Lucy; Mirajane > Lucy; Kagura > Lucy. Lucy only way to win the battle is to endure getting spanked and perform Uranometria when she has the chance, but, of course, without the narrative working in her favor, the rank S witches can prevent the conclusion of Uranometria.
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Lol kagura? Didn't kagura get disgraced by larcade? Yeah no Lucy ends kagura currently. Kagura doesn't even have any feats
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You are using a scene where Erza is not using any magic to increase her attributes and you are claiming that Minerva performed better than Erza. Jesus Christ.Athena's lasers have 0 feats, and even Yukino was able to dodge them. Sting could put his mouth on it. lol
Luso giant plush, however, could hit Erza directly:
The power of the plushies is solidified by Erza being hit by it. Minerva dodged one of these plushes punches who was covering a relevant area of the floor:
Lucy's "swords" are destroyed, yes, but only because Lucy couldn't surpass Kiria in the "sword dance". Lucy needed to put a defensive position and, because of it, her scissors were broken. After that, she was kicked and flew away because she didn't have quick reactions to make a counter-attack.
Let me remind you that Jellal was eluding Kiria's cuts as if they were just a random attack.
Erza casually was hitting Kiria in their spare. Kiria wasn't good enough with the sword to hurt Erza.
Lucy could surpass Kiria for a while because Kiria wasn't serious (since the beginning she said Lucy was trash). After Kiria became serious, Lucy was put on the defensive form and was destroyed in the fight.
Lucy doesn't show anything in terms of speed that makes her able to keep up with Kagura and Minerva. (Kagura being destroyed by Larcarde, the third strongest Spriggan, doesn't change her speed feat. Lucy wearing a stardress needed to be saved from Jacob's knife in the same arc ).
Lucy will be destroyed by Mirajane, Minerva, or Kagura in a fight as she was by Kiria. Lucy can't keep up with the speed sequence of spells and corporal attacks that the rank S mages will put on her. Thus, Minerva > Lucy; Mirajane > Lucy; Kagura > Lucy. Lucy only way to win the battle is to endure getting spanked and perform Uranometria when she has the chance, but, of course, without the narrative working in her favor, the rank S witches can prevent the conclusion of Uranometria.
It was just a random plush attack. Also, Minerva was using magic in the scene you posted and Erza also dodged the attack in that confrontation (round 1 vs Luso).
In the scene where you post that Erza is hit, it happened because Luso undid Erza's armor and attacked her with a huge attack, which Erza retaliated against. However, another plushie was already prepared to attack Erza. It was a surprise attack on a bikini-clad Erza.
Regarding Kiria, you are wrong. Lucy was not surpassed by Kiria for not being able to exchange sword blows with her, on the contrary. Lucy surpassed Kiria at times. What happened was that Kiria used her "Blade Dragon's Double Slash" spell to destroy Cancer's scissors. Before this, Lucy was able to fight Kiria normally.
Therefore, Lucy has the speed, agility and reaction to face Kiria in short-range combat. However, she cannot continue a fight at close range because Kiria has spells to cut off Cancer's scissors, leaving her defenseless in a close-range confrontation.
And those scenes you posted of Jellal and Laxus are not relevant, since they are infinitely superior mages to Kagura and Minerva. And Kiria wasn't able to harm them because she was using a roar and not her strongest cutting spell to hurt them.
Regarding Erza, Kiria wasn't using her cutting spells in these scenes. When she decided to use it, she destroyed the Benizakura. And remembering that Kiria was surpassed by Lucy in the same way that Erza was having the advantage over her, requiring Kiria to use her spells to destroy her opponent's weapons so that she would have an advantage in the confrontation.
I also don't understand why you are putting Mirajane on the same level as Minerva and Kagura, when they are not on the same level. Kagura hasn't had any relevant feats in many years, much less Minerva, who doesn't have decent spells (her best spell is a random explosion lol).
Lucy destroys Minerva and Kagura. These two characters have nothing that poses a danger to Lucy and are unable to survive Uranometria and Gottfried.
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I don't really see a case of kagura or Minerva being even stronger than even moonlight beauties.
Maybe you could try to like argue for Minerva based on her feats against the Signora sisters but that's kinda irrelevant cuz the sis was toying with em and called them fodders from being from ishgar.
I just don't see how Minerva and kagura are relevant to the current power levels. So I would say Lucy is stronger.
Honestly maybe mashima will just introduce kagura and give her some decent feats. Personally I don't even want fodders joining this war, too many fodders was in Alvarez in the arc was just bloated tbh
Maybe you could try to like argue for Minerva based on her feats against the Signora sisters but that's kinda irrelevant cuz the sis was toying with em and called them fodders from being from ishgar.
I just don't see how Minerva and kagura are relevant to the current power levels. So I would say Lucy is stronger.
Honestly maybe mashima will just introduce kagura and give her some decent feats. Personally I don't even want fodders joining this war, too many fodders was in Alvarez in the arc was just bloated tbh
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People are trying so HARD to make fodders like Minerva and Kagura relevant. 
LMFAOOO
LMFAOOO
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It doesn't matter if Erza is using armor or not to increase her status, she is naturally very fast. She was outperforming Kiria while wearing a swimsuit.
The giant plushie didn't hit Erza by surprise. Erza cut the first plush, then Erza advanced foward holding the sword and was hit by the second plushie.
Do you need me to put Erza reacting surprise attacks and fast sequential attacks to show you that just sending another plushie against her after she has cut the first one wouldn't get her unless the plushie is quick enough to do it?
Lucy was surpassed by both Kiria's speed and cut strenght. If Lucy were quick enough to react, she wouldn't get kicked after her scissors got destroyed, and neither she would be still while cutting by Kiria's continuous cuts. Is this below the portrayal of someone who can dodge Kiria's fast cuts?
If it were Kagura or Minerva in Lucy's place, they would be able to dodge or block the kick after their weapon has been broken, because they are portrayed to react fast, after all, they were wizards who can keep with casual Spriggan speed (Kagura blocked a surprise attack from Dimaria, and her speed was praised by Larcarde; Minerva dominated Wahl-Historia on close combat; fought Erza in the Sun Village without be defeated and react fast to Luso Signarios attacks).
Minerva's reaction was portrayed as not below Erza and Jellal when they fight Luso. Minerva was hit when Erza was hit, Minerva blocked the attack when Erza blocked. Lucy often is portrayed as someone who needs to be saved when fighting alongside stronger mages than her. She even needed to be saved by Laxus to not be defeated by Kiria.
With all this, I'm not saying that Minerva's speed is even with Erza's, I'm saying that Minerva's speed is good enough to keep her fighting with someone who is pressuring Erza. Lucy's speed isn't portrayed as good enough to compete with someone who can pressure Erza. Thus, Minerva is still faster than Lucy.
I showed you Jellal's scene just to prove how is the difference between Lucy and someone who is portrayed as capable of really dealing with Kiria's attacks. It doesn't matter if Kiria can cut Ezra's swords (because it only shows how strong her cuts are), cause Erza would just dodge her attacks and defeat her with punches and kicks if she needed to. It already happened when Neo Minerva also destroyed Erza's Benizakura. Lucy couldn't deal with Kiria's cuts because she wasn't fast enough to do it. Period.
Mirajane, Minerva, and Kagura are closer in level overall.
Kagura can casually cut a little mountain with her sword, so she can cut Lucy until she is knocked out. Minerva explosions, Yadgo Rigola, and close combat skills are enough to beat Lucy until his demise.
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--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---
I think you guys are forgetting that the Spriggans are still considered very strong currently, and Lucy didn't defeat anyone at the Spriggan level on the 100 YQ.
Skullion is Kiria's superior. Brandish easily overcame Skullion's strongest magic.
Brandish > Skullion > Kiria.
God Serena was able to clean the floor with Gajeel and put up a close fight with Jellal. Kagura has some feats against the Spriggan, she isn't fodder as it was said here. The gap between Lucy and Minerva or Kagura in terms of strength was very huge in the GMG. Lucy closed the distance little by little, but she still weaker than them. Mostly because Mashima always portrayed Lucy as someone who is not capable of fighting at the same level as a really strong opponent. Lucy is always beaten by them, because she can't keep up with the speed of their attacks, and then defeats the opponent with the spells that drain all her magic power. This scenario wouldn't change if she faced Minerva or Kagura nowadays, based on their feats and how they are portrayed in the manga.
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It doesn't matter if Erza is using armor or not to increase her status, she is naturally very fast. She was outperforming Kiria while wearing a swimsuit.
The giant plushie didn't hit Erza by surprise. Erza cut the first plush, then Erza advanced foward holding the sword and was hit by the second plushie.
Do you need me to put Erza reacting surprise attacks and fast sequential attacks to show you that just sending another plushie against her after she has cut the first one wouldn't get her unless the plushie is quick enough to do it?
Lucy was surpassed by both Kiria's speed and cut strenght. If Lucy were quick enough to react, she wouldn't get kicked after her scissors got destroyed, and neither she would be still while cutting by Kiria's continuous cuts. Is this below the portrayal of someone who can dodge Kiria's fast cuts?
If it were Kagura or Minerva in Lucy's place, they would be able to dodge or block the kick after their weapon has been broken, because they are portrayed to react fast, after all, they were wizards who can keep with casual Spriggan speed (Kagura blocked a surprise attack from Dimaria, and her speed was praised by Larcarde; Minerva dominated Wahl-Historia on close combat; fought Erza in the Sun Village without be defeated and react fast to Luso Signarios attacks).
Minerva's reaction was portrayed as not below Erza and Jellal when they fight Luso. Minerva was hit when Erza was hit, Minerva blocked the attack when Erza blocked. Lucy often is portrayed as someone who needs to be saved when fighting alongside stronger mages than her. She even needed to be saved by Laxus to not be defeated by Kiria.
With all this, I'm not saying that Minerva's speed is even with Erza's, I'm saying that Minerva's speed is good enough to keep her fighting with someone who is pressuring Erza. Lucy's speed isn't portrayed as good enough to compete with someone who can pressure Erza. Thus, Minerva is still faster than Lucy.
I showed you Jellal's scene just to prove how is the difference between Lucy and someone who is portrayed as capable of really dealing with Kiria's attacks. It doesn't matter if Kiria can cut Ezra's swords (because it only shows how strong her cuts are), cause Erza would just dodge her attacks and defeat her with punches and kicks if she needed to. It already happened when Neo Minerva also destroyed Erza's Benizakura. Lucy couldn't deal with Kiria's cuts because she wasn't fast enough to do it. Period.
Mirajane, Minerva, and Kagura are closer in level overall.
Kagura can casually cut a little mountain with her sword, so she can cut Lucy until she is knocked out. Minerva explosions, Yadgo Rigola, and close combat skills are enough to beat Lucy until his demise.
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--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---
I think you guys are forgetting that the Spriggans are still considered very strong currently, and Lucy didn't defeat anyone at the Spriggan level on the 100 YQ.
Skullion is Kiria's superior. Brandish easily overcame Skullion's strongest magic.
Brandish > Skullion > Kiria.
God Serena was able to clean the floor with Gajeel and put up a close fight with Jellal. Kagura has some feats against the Spriggan, she isn't fodder as it was said here. The gap between Lucy and Minerva or Kagura in terms of strength was very huge in the GMG. Lucy closed the distance little by little, but she still weaker than them. Mostly because Mashima always portrayed Lucy as someone who is not capable of fighting at the same level as a really strong opponent. Lucy is always beaten by them, because she can't keep up with the speed of their attacks, and then defeats the opponent with the spells that drain all her magic power. This scenario wouldn't change if she faced Minerva or Kagura nowadays, based on their feats and how they are portrayed in the manga.
Your arguments are not good and do not match the reality of the manga. In fact, you are making several conjectures that place Minerva and Kagura at the power level of high power level characters (Jellal, Erza and Laxus), as a way of establishing a power parameter above that shown by Lucy.
This happens because these two characters don't have significant achievements in the manga, so you want to push this narrative to mask that.
First, you are distorting this scene where Erza is caught off guard by only presenting the manga page that you think is convenient to show. Initially, Erza used into an armor with great defensive power, but Luso Signario undid her armor, leaving Erza perplexed. And soon after that, Luso tried to bury Erza with a huge plush, but Erza managed to destroy the plush from the inside, but she was unable to do so react to the next plushie because the attack was out of your field of vision.
To illustrate, this happened twice in this fight:
--
Erza dodges the first attack, but is caught off guard by Luso's other attack.
Furthermore, after Erza uses Reequip, she with the Tenri armor manages to destroy all the plushies that came from different angles.
And feel free to bring other situations from the manga, it won't change anything in the context of these scenes of the fight between Erza vs Sisters Signario, since anyone is capable of interpreting these pages of the manga.
And again, Lucy wasn't outmatched by Kiria due to lack of reaction or speed. What happened was that Kiria destroyed Cancer's scissors and cut the Lion Maiden, leaving Lucy without many options. She opted for Aries' Star Dress, which has defensive spells, and was thinking about how to counter Kiria. But she found himself without options.
Before Kira destroyed Cancer's blades, Lucy managed to react and overcome Kiria in blade combat. But after Cancer's blades were destroyed, Lucy no longer had the offensive potential to exchange blows against Kiria at short range. Would she protect herself with her hands? Obviously not. That's why she wore the Aries Star Dress.
Kiria surpassed Lucy at short range because Lucy was left unarmed, with just her bare hands (Hiro even emphasized Lucy trying to use the celestial whip to continue in close-range combat, but Kiria cut him off. Proving you wrong).
The funniest part of your post is that you assume that Minerva and Kagura would do better than Lucy. If it had been either of them in Lucy's place, they would be dead. Kiria would destroy Archenemy, leaving Kagura completely unarmed and defenseless (Kiria destroyed Erza's Benizakura). After that, Kagura would be killed, as she doesn't have any spells on Gottfried's level or useful magic to keep fighting.
Regarding Minerva, it would be even easier for Kiria, as she is able to cut through magic without difficulty. Then Minerva would have no way to fight, and even if she did, her explosions are useless.
Kiria would have no difficulty against Minerva and Kagura. They are less versatile than Lucy and weaker too.
And if you think that reacting to HUMAN DIMARIA and fighting Erza from Sun Village are good feats for the quest parameters, you are extremely mistaken.
An important point, the Spriggans in their history version are weaker than the original version. And Mineva WAS IN DOUBT IN THE MANGA ABOUT BEING ABLE TO DEFEAT WHAL, as Makarov used Fairy Law to destroy Zeref's army.
Good luck inventing feats for Minerva, she needs it.
And please, are you using the fact that Minerva participated in a battle against Luso Signario where only she actually fought the opponent, to claim that she is gravitating towards Erza and Jellal's power level? If so, Wendy is on par with Erza for helping against Irene. Gajeel-level Levy for helping against Bradman. Among countless other situations. This argument was very low on.
This just shows how you don't have good arguments to support a level of power that these characters don't have.
You showed the Jellal scene wrongly, as he is portrayed as insanely powerful. Being unaffected by Kiria is not relevant to this discussion.
Furthermore, Minerva does not have any relevant achievements in the manga. Her explosions are a joke and she has nothing else that can be used in combat. And Kagura... this character was made a joke in Alvarez, and is "dead" in the quest (she barely appears).
Minerva and Kagura were only not surpassed by Juvia because Mashima is too worried about Gruvia's fanservice. If it weren't for that...
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Kagura and Minerva are legit fodder. Just cuz she got praised by spriggan doesn't mean she's not fodder. One hand chop from larcade and she was cooked.
You can't even make proper arguments for kagura cuz her only relevant feat is back in gmg. That's ages ago. Even natsu was weaker than kagura back in gmg.
Basic scaling Lucy. Lucy should scale to a somewhat serious Erza/somewhat serious base natsu post Alvarez and beginning of the 100 years quest. And this two shit diff Minerva and kagura
You can't even make proper arguments for kagura cuz her only relevant feat is back in gmg. That's ages ago. Even natsu was weaker than kagura back in gmg.
Basic scaling Lucy. Lucy should scale to a somewhat serious Erza/somewhat serious base natsu post Alvarez and beginning of the 100 years quest. And this two shit diff Minerva and kagura
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Minerva and Kagura are so weak that people have to write fanfiction about them so they have 'feats'.
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Stop creating downplays for Erza that don't exist. Erza can fight without using an armor if she is holding a sword. As I said, she was already hitting Kiria while wearing a bikini. Erza with one sword was outperforming Kiria using her two arms as swords.Your arguments are not good and do not match the reality of the manga. In fact, you are making several conjectures that place Minerva and Kagura at the power level of high power level characters (Jellal, Erza and Laxus), as a way of establishing a power parameter above that shown by Lucy.
This happens because these two characters don't have significant achievements in the manga, so you want to push this narrative to mask that.
First, you are distorting this scene where Erza is caught off guard by only presenting the manga page that you think is convenient to show. Initially, Erza used into an armor with great defensive power, but Luso Signario undid her armor, leaving Erza perplexed. And soon after that, Luso tried to bury Erza with a huge plush, but Erza managed to destroy the plush from the inside, but she was unable to do so react to the next plushie because the attack was out of your field of vision.
To illustrate, this happened twice in this fight:
--
Erza dodges the first attack, but is caught off guard by Luso's other attack.
Furthermore, after Erza uses Reequip, she with the Tenri armor manages to destroy all the plushies that came from different angles.
And feel free to bring other situations from the manga, it won't change anything in the context of these scenes of the fight between Erza vs Sisters Signario, since anyone is capable of interpreting these pages of the manga.
And again, Lucy wasn't outmatched by Kiria due to lack of reaction or speed. What happened was that Kiria destroyed Cancer's scissors and cut the Lion Maiden, leaving Lucy without many options. She opted for Aries' Star Dress, which has defensive spells, and was thinking about how to counter Kiria. But she found himself without options.
Before Kira destroyed Cancer's blades, Lucy managed to react and overcome Kiria in blade combat. But after Cancer's blades were destroyed, Lucy no longer had the offensive potential to exchange blows against Kiria at short range. Would she protect herself with her hands? Obviously not. That's why she wore the Aries Star Dress.
Kiria surpassed Lucy at short range because Lucy was left unarmed, with just her bare hands (Hiro even emphasized Lucy trying to use the celestial whip to continue in close-range combat, but Kiria cut him off. Proving you wrong).
The funniest part of your post is that you assume that Minerva and Kagura would do better than Lucy. If it had been either of them in Lucy's place, they would be dead. Kiria would destroy Archenemy, leaving Kagura completely unarmed and defenseless (Kiria destroyed Erza's Benizakura). After that, Kagura would be killed, as she doesn't have any spells on Gottfried's level or useful magic to keep fighting.
Regarding Minerva, it would be even easier for Kiria, as she is able to cut through magic without difficulty. Then Minerva would have no way to fight, and even if she did, her explosions are useless.
Kiria would have no difficulty against Minerva and Kagura. They are less versatile than Lucy and weaker too.
And if you think that reacting to HUMAN DIMARIA and fighting Erza from Sun Village are good feats for the quest parameters, you are extremely mistaken.
An important point, the Spriggans in their history version are weaker than the original version. And Mineva WAS IN DOUBT IN THE MANGA ABOUT BEING ABLE TO DEFEAT WHAL, as Makarov used Fairy Law to destroy Zeref's army.
Good luck inventing feats for Minerva, she needs it.
And please, are you using the fact that Minerva participated in a battle against Luso Signario where only she actually fought the opponent, to claim that she is gravitating towards Erza and Jellal's power level? If so, Wendy is on par with Erza for helping against Irene. Gajeel-level Levy for helping against Bradman. Among countless other situations. This argument was very low on.
This just shows how you don't have good arguments to support a level of power that these characters don't have.
You showed the Jellal scene wrongly, as he is portrayed as insanely powerful. Being unaffected by Kiria is not relevant to this discussion.
Furthermore, Minerva does not have any relevant achievements in the manga. Her explosions are a joke and she has nothing else that can be used in combat. And Kagura... this character was made a joke in Alvarez, and is "dead" in the quest (she barely appears).
Minerva and Kagura were only not surpassed by Juvia because Mashima is too worried about Gruvia's fanservice. If it weren't for that...
After becoming "Kiria's slave", Erza suffered damages by her tortures and even so she wasn't cut once by Kiria in their second fight and didn't take long to surpass her in the fight:
Kiria was described as "Strong" by Erza, but she wasn't strong enough to be a challenge for Erza as a fighter.
Luso took off Ezra's armor, aiming for Erza to be crushed by one of the giant plushies. Still, Erza just summoned a sword and cut the plushie, then she proceeded to move forward holding the same sword but was hit directly by another plushie. You're just denying that Luso plushies are strong enough to hit Erza directly, but it's shown in the manga:
I will not be in this looping forever. Lucy doesn't have the speed status that is needed to dodge Kirias cuts and hit her when Kiria is serious, nor does Lucy have the endurance to be hit by strong cuts and quickly counter-attack. It's clearly in the manga.
Lucy took three followed hits by Kiria without properly defending herself or evading them. She needed Horologium automatic defensive to not be knocked out:
Again, Lucy created a wool shield, and after it was cut away, Lucy couldn't do anything more besides being cut over and over again.
Lucy: "I can't keep this up!"
If Lucy's status was high enough to challenge Kiria, she would just move away from Kira's cut, however, the author portrays Lucy as someone who can't do anything besides being cut until death in this situation.
Kagura is very physically strong, so she can punch and kick even without a sword. Minerva can cover her arms with dimensional waves to fight swords, as she did against Erza and Kagura, and she can create it forever.
You're ignoring the center part: Kagura and Minerva are fast enough to challenge Kiria, so the latter will not have so much time to cut everything as she did with Lucy. That's what happens when she faces someone strong enough to deal with her speed. Let's not forget Minerva's magic: if Kiria sends cuts in her direction, she can just switch places with Kiria. Would Kiria be fast enough to repel all her cuts after being taken by surprise? LOL
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Larcade is the third strongest Spriggan according to him, and he was portrayed affecting Irene, Zerelf and Gildarts with his "magic". His hand is strong, and it's like a sword, once he passed one finger against Sting's body and cut the body:
Kagura was hit by his hand, so it's like she was blown away by a strong sword stroke.
Larcade stated that he, Irene, and August are far stronger than the other Spriggans, so I don't see how this put Kagura as someone so weak. Mirajane never faced a strong Spriggan in a proper fight. She used all her MP to defeat two subalterns, so it's not a surprise that even relevant mages (and stronger than Lucy) can't stand to fight against the top of the cream of the Spriggans. Kagura performed better against a very strong Spriggan than Lucy against an average Spriggan or below-Spriggan-level opponent in terms of speed overall.
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Nobody is writing fanfic about them. You're denying that both mages are portrayed as skilled and faster than Lucy just because you like Lucy more.
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I've already responded to your entire post in other posts I've made, but you're going in circles.Stop creating downplays for Erza that don't exist. Erza can fight without using an armor if she is holding a sword. As I said, she was already hitting Kiria while wearing a bikini. Erza with one sword was outperforming Kiria using her two arms as swords.
After becoming "Kiria's slave", Erza suffered damages by her tortures and even so she wasn't cut once by Kiria in their second fight and didn't take long to surpass her in the fight:
Kiria was described as "Strong" by Erza, but she wasn't strong enough to be a challenge for Erza as a fighter.
Luso took off Ezra's armor, aiming for Erza to be crushed by one of the giant plushies. Still, Erza just summoned a sword and cut the plushie, then she proceeded to move forward holding the same sword but was hit directly by another plushie. You're just denying that Luso plushies are strong enough to hit Erza directly, but it's shown in the manga:
I will not be in this looping forever. Lucy doesn't have the speed status that is needed to dodge Kirias cuts and hit her when Kiria is serious, nor does Lucy have the endurance to be hit by strong cuts and quickly counter-attack. It's clearly in the manga.
Lucy took three followed hits by Kiria without properly defending herself or evading them. She needed Horologium automatic defensive to not be knocked out:
Again, Lucy created a wool shield, and after it was cut away, Lucy couldn't do anything more besides being cut over and over again.
Lucy: "I can't keep this up!"
If Lucy's status was high enough to challenge Kiria, she would just move away from Kira's cut, however, the author portrays Lucy as someone who can't do anything besides being cut until death in this situation.
Kagura is very physically strong, so she can punch and kick even without a sword. Minerva can cover her arms with dimensional waves to fight swords, as she did against Erza and Kagura, and she can create it forever.
You're ignoring the center part: Kagura and Minerva are fast enough to challenge Kiria, so the latter will not have so much time to cut everything as she did with Lucy. That's what happens when she faces someone strong enough to deal with her speed. Let's not forget Minerva's magic: if Kiria sends cuts in her direction, she can just switch places with Kiria. Would Kiria be fast enough to repel all her cuts after being taken by surprise? LOL
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Larcade is the third strongest Spriggan according to him, and he was portrayed affecting Irene, Zerelf and Gildarts with his "magic". His hand is strong, and it's like a sword, once he passed one finger against Sting's body and cut the body:
Kagura was hit by his hand, so it's like she was blown away by a strong sword stroke.
Larcade stated that he, Irene, and August are far stronger than the other Spriggans, so I don't see how this put Kagura as someone so weak. Mirajane never faced a strong Spriggan in a proper fight. She used all her MP to defeat two subalterns, so it's not a surprise that even relevant mages (and stronger than Lucy) can't stand to fight against the top of the cream of the Spriggans. Kagura performed better against a very strong Spriggan than Lucy against an average Spriggan or below-Spriggan-level opponent in terms of speed and skills overall.
Erza demonstrating superiority over Kiria in close-range combat is not impressive because it was expected of her. What's impressive is that Kiria was able to battle Erza for long periods of time. Let's not forget that Erza needed to use Fire armor in conjunction with Natsu's Belserion sword and flames to defeat Kiria. So Kiria's power level goes beyond Erza in a bikini.
And here we go discussing these plushies again. I have already posted the pages you hid and anyone is capable of interpreting the scenes shown. Another thing, I also posted pages that show that in that same fight Erza also managed to dodge an attack and was soon surprised by another. A surprise attack.
Another relevant point is that you ignored that in round 1 against Luso Signario, Erza and Jellal also dodged the attack. It wasn't just Minerva, so there hasn't been any speed on this character's part. And there's no point comparing this moment to what happened against Erza in the battle against the Signario Sisters because Erza was facing Luso Signario alone. Luso's countless plushies were completely focused on Erza, and the situation in which Erza was hit required a distraction for that.
Regarding Lucy, I already explained what happened in the confrontation against Kiria with pages from the manga, the character's lines and moments in which Kiria used her cutting spells to gain an advantage over Lucy.
The moment Lucy used Aries' Star Dress, she no longer had any options available to maintain a close-range confrontation against Kiria. She trusted that she could defend herself from Kiria's attacks with Aries' wool, but failed as shown in the manga. As a result, Lucy took a lot of serious damage that hampered her performance in battle. Just remember that using the maximum of his cutting capabilities, Kiria managed to cause a lot of damage to Laxus, needing Virgo to take care of him (in a normal situation, Kiria would never lay a finger on Laxus).
What you fail to understand is that Kiria took a completely offensive stance and Lucy was not able to counterattack because she was unarmed and had no spells that could (before the Mix of Aquarius and Gemini) pose a danger to Kiria.
And finally the most interesting and illusory part of your post, completely devoid of connection with the manga.
Do you really think that Kagura has the ability to face Kiria with her bare hands, with just brute force? And why do you think Kagura is on Kiria's level in terms of physical capabilities? Kiria is superior to Erza with Benizakura and flaming pants (Merphobia arc). And again I'll repeat, it was necessary for Erza to use her Fire Armor + enchanted Belserion Sword and Natsu's flames to temporarily stun Kiria. This is far beyond Kagura's power level, who hasn't had any decent feats in many years. Kiria will chop Kagura in close range combat and that's a fact.
As for Minerva... Wow, this would be a massacre. Honestly, do you really think Kiria would have difficulty against a mage who has pathetic explosions as an offensive method? Kiria is capable of cutting magic, so Minerva's dimensional rifts would be useless. If she were to engage in close-range combat against Kiria, she would quickly be killed.
And no, Minerva doesn't have any speed feats. None. The most she can do in a fight against Kiria is to RUN away from the confrontation or she will die.
It is noticeable that Kagura and Minerva are weaker than Lucy when people cannot imagine that they are capable of beating Kiria.
Lucy is above them and that is the reality of the manga. The manga's portrayal of Minerva and Kagura are of two outdated characters, who have not evolved and only serve to appear occasionally in the manga. End.
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Kiria didn't battle Erza for a long period, it was quite fast both of the times. The subject is Kiria's speed in comparison to Erza's, and I prove that Kiria was never someone who challenged Erza in combat skills. I proved my point that Kiria was never someone as fast as currently Erza. On the other hand, Minerva could exchange blows with someone who was able to hit and hurt Erza in combat, and even hold Jellal, Erza, and Minerva at the same time. Thus, Minerva > Kiria in terms of speed.
Erza and Jellal run out of the zone from the plushie's punches, while Minerva keeps dodging his punches more closely to blow him away. The page only shows her leaping to dodge the area of the punches.
I already showed that the giant plushies could hit Erza even when the fight was just Luso X Erza, so I proved that they are fast creatures, and Minerva has feats against them.
Lucy was portrayed as a not skilled fighter when chooses to use the wool shield against Kiria, because it was obvious that it isn't strong enough to block Kiria's cut. Lucy should use it as a decoy and quickly move away from the wool shield with another star dress, but, as I said, Lucy isn't portrayed as a fast fighter who can strike in sequence very quickly.
Kagura is fast enough to be praised by Spriggans (stronger foes than Kiria), and she is fast to cut simultaneous things, so she can block Kira's casual cuts and reach her attack directly on Kiria:
Kagura probably can't defeat Kiria with her bare hands. Kiria probably would use her hax in the beginning and win if she judged Kagura as strong. But Kagura has the speed to dodge Kiria's attack and hit her. She definitely would be a better challenger without a sword than Lucy was after her Cancer Scissors were broken until she was saved by Laxus. Kagura at least would lose after creating some relevant damages on Kiria.
I already proved that Minerva is fast enough to keep up Kiria's speed. And she has the teleport to create surprise attacks. Kiria only will "cut everything" if she has time to launch her attack without being hit first. LOL
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Stop creating downplays for Erza that don't exist. Erza can fight without using an armor if she is holding a sword. As I said, she was already hitting Kiria while wearing a bikini. Erza with one sword was outperforming Kiria using her two arms as swords.
After becoming "Kiria's slave", Erza suffered damages by her tortures and even so she wasn't cut once by Kiria in their second fight and didn't take long to surpass her in the fight:
Kiria was described as "Strong" by Erza, but she wasn't strong enough to be a challenge for Erza as a fighter.
Luso took off Ezra's armor, aiming for Erza to be crushed by one of the giant plushies. Still, Erza just summoned a sword and cut the plushie, then she proceeded to move forward holding the same sword but was hit directly by another plushie. You're just denying that Luso plushies are strong enough to hit Erza directly, but it's shown in the manga:
I will not be in this looping forever. Lucy doesn't have the speed status that is needed to dodge Kirias cuts and hit her when Kiria is serious, nor does Lucy have the endurance to be hit by strong cuts and quickly counter-attack. It's clearly in the manga.
Lucy took three followed hits by Kiria without properly defending herself or evading them. She needed Horologium automatic defensive to not be knocked out:
Again, Lucy created a wool shield, and after it was cut away, Lucy couldn't do anything more besides being cut over and over again.
Lucy: "I can't keep this up!"
If Lucy's status was high enough to challenge Kiria, she would just move away from Kira's cut, however, the author portrays Lucy as someone who can't do anything besides being cut until death in this situation.
Kagura is very physically strong, so she can punch and kick even without a sword. Minerva can cover her arms with dimensional waves to fight swords, as she did against Erza and Kagura, and she can create it forever.
You're ignoring the center part: Kagura and Minerva are fast enough to challenge Kiria, so the latter will not have so much time to cut everything as she did with Lucy. That's what happens when she faces someone strong enough to deal with her speed. Let's not forget Minerva's magic: if Kiria sends cuts in her direction, she can just switch places with Kiria. Would Kiria be fast enough to repel all her cuts after being taken by surprise? LOL
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Larcade is the third strongest Spriggan according to him, and he was portrayed affecting Irene, Zerelf and Gildarts with his "magic". His hand is strong, and it's like a sword, once he passed one finger against Sting's body and cut the body:
Kagura was hit by his hand, so it's like she was blown away by a strong sword stroke.
Larcade stated that he, Irene, and August are far stronger than the other Spriggans, so I don't see how this put Kagura as someone so weak. Mirajane never faced a strong Spriggan in a proper fight. She used all her MP to defeat two subalterns, so it's not a surprise that even relevant mages (and stronger than Lucy) can't stand to fight against the top of the cream of the Spriggans. Kagura performed better against a very strong Spriggan than Lucy against an average Spriggan or below-Spriggan-level opponent in terms of speed overall.
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Nobody is writing fanfic about them. You're denying that both mages are portrayed as skilled and faster than Lucy just because you like Lucy more.
. Getting praised by Spriggans doesn't mean she's not fodder.You're using outdated feats from a freaking year ago. Stop whining. Kagura is irrelevant and she's fodder.
You're rewriting the manga to fit your low logic reasoning. It's freaking sad. Kyria would smoke kagura and Minerva solo. Who portrayed both mages to be skilled and faster than Lucy? Definitely not in fairy tail.
You can't seem to understand the basics of simple scaling. Lucy scales to a somewhat serious Erza and a somewhat serious base natsu at the beginning of hundred years quest. Both natsu and erza at the beginning of hundred years quest are stronger than Minerva and kagura.
According to your logic we can say athena who's as strong as zeref praised Lucy so Lucy >kagura and Minerva
Wait a low iq reasoning. Gtfoh
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Dude you're embarrassing yourself. Stop using a stupid irrelevant feat from a year ago to scale kagura to current Lucy. Kagura didn't even do anything reasonable. Are you fucking kidding me rn? Even sting looked better against Larcade than kagura. Kagura got no diff'd by a hand chop that's how fodder she isKiria didn't battle Erza for a long period, it was quite fast both of the times. The subject is Kiria's speed in comparison to Erza's, and I prove that Kiria was never someone who challenged Erza in combat skills. I proved my point that Kiria was never someone as fast as currently Erza. On the other hand, Minerva could exchange blows with someone who was able to hit and hurt Erza in combat, and even hold Jellal, Erza, and Minerva at the same time. Thus, Minerva > Kiria in terms of speed.
Erza and Jellal run out of the zone from the plushie's punches, while Minerva keeps dodging his punches more closely to blow him away. The page only shows her leaping to dodge the area of the punches.
I already showed that the giant plushies could hit Erza even when the fight was just Luso X Erza, so I proved that they are fast creatures, and Minerva has feats against them.
Lucy was portrayed as a not skilled fighter when chooses to use the wool shield against Kiria, because it was obvious that it isn't strong enough to block Kiria's cut. Lucy should use it as a decoy and quickly move away from the wool shield with another star dress, but, as I said, Lucy isn't portrayed as a fast fighter who can strike in sequence very quickly.
Kagura is fast enough to be praised by Spriggans (stronger foes than Kiria), and she is fast to cut simultaneous things, so she can block Kira's casual cuts and reach her attack directly on Kiria:
Kagura probably can't defeat Kiria with her bare hands. Kiria probably would use her hax in the beginning and win if she judged Kagura as strong. But Kagura has the speed to dodge Kiria's attack and hit her. She definitely would be a better challenger without a sword than Lucy was after her Cancer Scissors were broken until she was saved by Laxus. Kagura at least would lose after creating some relevant damages on Kiria.
I already proved that Minerva is fast enough to keep up Kiria's speed. And she has the teleport to create surprise attacks. Kiria only will "cut everything" if she has time to launch her attack without being hit first. LOL
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There’s no proof that Kagura or Minerva would have done any better against kiria did nor is there any proof that Lucy would have done any better against Larcade or Luso
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Are you trying to play neutral party here?