Discussion Fairy Tail Power Ranking Thread

[Jko]

Why are you still arguing this? It enhances their attacks with dragon magic. Which would serve as a buff. Come on now. You lost that argument ages ago bro

No, it does not. I don't know why you're arguing this when it has only ever been stated to add the DS attribute to it and nothing more.

Spoiler

And when did I lose this so call argument? You have never ever brought up an actual scan that backs up your claim, bruh. You tried to state non dragonized Dragon Slayers = Dragons when everything in the manga said that wasn't true lmao. DS magic is only super effective against Dragons. It's not super effective against HUMAN Dragon Slayers. Your headcanon was never canon. Stick to the actual facts.

 

[Jhonatas Fernandes]

I never said Kiria was a genuine challenge for Erza, I acknowledge she's way weaker than Erza. And no? Kiria didn't use the strength cutting technique because she thought she couldn't win, she used it because she wanted to enslave a strong warrior. Also I was specifically saying Kiria vs Erza on the SHIP was casual, of course once Erza gets serious Kiria herself is no match for her. And the same goes for literally Luso who got blitzed and one-shotted once Erza got serious.

I mean, yeah, we can say Luso is faster than Kiria then, but it is not by much in the slightest considering how both Jellal and Erza were far from serious with Erza barely using her armors in the first encounter.

Luso isn't a physical fighter, she is a wizard who creates creatures and manipulates her dimension with her imagination However, Erza needed to spam Tenrin Armor's swords in a fast way to overcome Luso's creation speed. Let not forget that Tenrin armor tied with Laxus spamming lighting blasts.

If you agree that Luso's power is faster than Kiria fighting in cqc, you also should agree that Minerva is faster than Lucy.

--- Double Post Merged, Aug 5, 2024, Original Post Date: Aug 4, 2024 ---

People are debating semantics and entering a narrative game that exalts Minerva's power level to the group of high-level characters (Erza, Jellal and Laxus) from Fairy Tail. And that doesn't exist.

Furthermore, Minerva doesn't have feats of speed or anything like that. The person advocating this is using lots of random examples to create fiction that can further their arguments. The more you waste time discussing random things, you lose sight of the fact that Minerva didn't do anything relevant against Luso, who was joking.

That's the point of the whole discussion. If it's clear to all of us that Minerva hasn't done anything in the quest, what's the point of continuing to discuss parallel things?

See, the argument in favor of Minerva is using a scene of a plush attack that she dodged, with Erza and Jellal (no Magic) also dodging the same attack.

In other words, there are no speed feats for this character. She's still the same character from the Alvarez arc, who wasn't able to beat history of a Spriggan. End.

Minerva avoided a couple of punches from Luso's bear (and the fact that Jellal and Erza run away from the punches too isn't bad for Minerva because they are faster and more powerful than her). The fact that she could dodge the punches at a close distance to defeat the bear is something good for her because the punches have a relevant area of effect.

Minerva blocked the horse when Erza also needed to keep a defensive position:

When all of the three were hit by the explosives ballons, Minerva was the first of them to overcome the pressure from the explosion to counter-attack:

Minerva was able to teletransport before being crushed by Luso's giant foot

Minerva dealt with Luso's power multiple times. Luso's power hit Erza and Jellal numerous times too, and after that, when Luso fought Erza on 1x1, her creations were able to hit Erza on a direct hit and also with numerical advantage. Erza needed to spam Tenrin swords, and she even used a new cast in this form:

Minerva could keep with Luso's power during the group spare, a power that was hitting Erza and Jellal in the first Erza and that could hit and pressure Erza even on the 1X1 fight. Thus, since Minerva is portrayed as someone who can keep up with a power that is fast enough to hit regular battle mode Erza, Minerva is portrayed as faster than Lucy.

Minerva was already portrayed as someone who can keep a fight with regular battle mode Erza on the Sun Village Arc. In the war against the Alvarez Empire, Minerva was good enough to surpass Wahl-Historia in a physical fight (and even if the Spriggans Historias are a weaker version of the real Spriggans, we can't measure how weakened they were, once Gildarts called Historia-God Serena a small-fry, but Erza praised the same version of God-Serena). Still, Minerva, in the Empire Alvarez Arc, was portrayed as quite faster than Lucy, since she can get the better in a physical fight against a weakened Spriggan, and Lucy needed to be saved from Jacob's knife.

Minerva doubted whether she defeated Historia-Wahl or not because she ordered Yukino and Angel to defeat the summoner, but the author showed H-Whal on the floor without a piece from his face, so there is no doubt that Minerva did serious damage to him.

Where in the narrative is said that Lucy has evolved so much in her speed that she surpassed Minerva nowadays?

 

[Rigel]

Luso isn't a physical fighter, she is a wizard who creates creatures and manipulates her dimension with her imagination However, Erza needed to spam Tenrin Armor's swords in a fast way to overcome Luso's creation speed. Let not forget that Tenrin armor tied with Laxus spamming lighting blasts.

If you agree that Luso's power is faster than Kiria fighting in cqc, you also should agree that Minerva is faster than Lucy.

--- Double Post Merged, Aug 5, 2024, Original Post Date: Aug 4, 2024 ---

Minerva avoided a couple of punches from Luso's bear (and the fact that Jellal and Erza run away from the punches too isn't bad for Minerva because they are faster and more powerful than her). The fact that she could dodge the punches at a close distance to defeat the bear is something good for her because the punches have a relevant area of effect.

Minerva blocked the horse when Erza also needed to keep a defensive position:

When all of the three were hit by the explosives ballons, Minerva was the first of them to overcome the pressure from the explosion to counter-attack:

Minerva was able to teletransport before being crushed by Luso's giant foot

Minerva dealt with Luso's power multiple times. Luso's power hit Erza and Jellal numerous times too, and after that, when Luso fought Erza on 1x1, her creations were able to hit Erza on a direct hit and also with numerical advantage. Erza needed to spam Tenrin swords, and she even used a new cast in this form:

Minerva could keep with Luso's power during the group spare, a power that was hitting Erza and Jellal in the first Erza and that could hit and pressure Erza even on the 1X1 fight. Thus, since Minerva is portrayed as someone who can keep up with a power that is fast enough to hit regular battle mode Erza, Minerva is portrayed as faster than Lucy.

Minerva was already portrayed as someone who can keep a fight with regular battle mode Erza on the Sun Village Arc. In the war against the Alvarez Empire, Minerva was good enough to surpass Wahl-Historia in a physical fight (and even if the Spriggans Historias are a weaker version of the real Spriggans, we can't measure how weakened they were, once Gildarts called Historia-God Serena a small-fry, but Erza praised the same version of God-Serena). Still, Minerva, in the Empire Alvarez Arc, was portrayed as quite faster than Lucy, since she can get the better in a physical fight against a weakened Spriggan, and Lucy needed to be saved from Jacob's knife.

Minerva doubted whether she defeated Historia-Wahl or not because she ordered Yukino and Angel to defeat the summoner, but the author showed H-Whal on the floor without a piece from his face, so there is no doubt that Minerva did serious damage to him.

Where in the narrative is said that Lucy has evolved so much in her speed that she surpassed Minerva nowadays?

Some details you forgot to point out: Erza and Jellal weren't using magic in the situations where they were hit (Minerva was also hit by the stuffed horse). Luso was playing with Minerva, as pointed out by Ennie.

And Minerva was unable to surprise Luso at any point in the fight, showing that everything was in accordance with Luso Signario's plans. So there is no reason for you to overestimate Minerva.

 

[Jhonatas Fernandes]

Some details you forgot to point out: Erza and Jellal weren't using magic in the situations where they were hit (Minerva was also hit by the stuffed horse). Luso was playing with Minerva, as pointed out by Ennie.

And Minerva was unable to surprise Luso at any point in the fight, showing that everything was in accordance with Luso Signario's plans. So there is no reason for you to overestimate Minerva.

They both used their magic when it was necessary. Jellal doesn't need to use meteor to react to attacks nor Erza needed it. It was more like they didn't have the time to use magic before being hit. Minerva wasn't using her magic when dodged the bear punches, blocked the horse or when she was hit by the bomb balloons, so what is your point?
Yet, as I said, Minerva could keep with Luso's power during the group spare, a power that was hitting Erza and Jellal in the first Erza and that could hit and pressure Erza even on the 1X1 fight. Minerva keeps being faster than Lucy.

 

[Rigel]

They both used their magic when it was necessary. Jellal doesn't need to use meteor to react to attacks nor Erza needed it. It was more like they didn't have the time to use magic before being hit. Minerva wasn't using her magic when dodged the bear punches, blocked the horse or when she was hit by the bomb balloons, so what is your point?
Yet, as I said, Minerva could keep with Luso's power during the group spare, a power that was hitting Erza and Jellal in the first Erza and that could hit and pressure Erza even on the 1X1 fight. Minerva keeps being faster than Lucy.

It is you who must establish what your point is because Luso Signario was playing with Minerva, it was not a serious fight. And if Erza and Jellal also dodged the attack, it means that Minerva has no achievements to praise.

And Erza was only pressured in the 2nd round against Luso Signario because it was a more serious battle, with Luso focusing only on Erza. Furthermore, Luso used a strategy for this and only hit Erza when she wasn't using magic.

Minerva used all her power against an opponent who was playing with her and was unable to surprise Luso Signario at any point. So she has no achievements.

The question is: why are you praising Minerva, when the enemy was playing with her? We know that Erza and Jellal are infinitely superior to Minerva, they are not on the same level. So why do you keep creating fictions that Minerva did well in the fight, when she used all her power to face Luso Signario (who was joking) and couldn't do anything?

 

[GL_Nova]

No, it does not. I don't know why you're arguing this when it has only ever been stated to add the DS attribute to it and nothing more.

Spoiler

And when did I lose this so call argument? You have never ever brought up an actual scan that backs up your claim, bruh. You tried to state non dragonized Dragon Slayers = Dragons when everything in the manga said that wasn't true lmao. DS magic is only super effective against Dragons. It's not super effective against HUMAN Dragon Slayers. Your headcanon was never canon. Stick to the actual facts.

Same reason we been going over this since the chapter dropped. I care more about Erza's assessment than yours. You insist it has no outside influence, yet all DS mages are tankier than average mages, we have seen that the dragon elements have special abilities time and again, and literally Erza keeps using it as a boost against DS. Points you never bothered to disprove because you decided it's not one . Seriously though. She stacked as much DS magic as she could against Laxus but let's ignore it.

When did I say they equal dragons? I said that the magic is clearly helpful in dealing with them because Erza continues to use the stack against slayers when she needs a boost. I then posted the scans of her doing so. The onus is and has ever been on you to prove why it's not more effective against them. I will continue to wait though.

 

[Jhonatas Fernandes]

It is you who must establish what your point is because Luso Signario was playing with Minerva, it was not a serious fight. And if Erza and Jellal also dodged the attack, it means that Minerva has no achievements to praise.

And Erza was only pressured in the 2nd round against Luso Signario because it was a more serious battle, with Luso focusing only on Erza. Furthermore, Luso used a strategy for this and only hit Erza when she wasn't using magic.

Minerva used all her power against an opponent who was playing with her and was unable to surprise Luso Signario at any point. So she has no achievements.

The question is: why are you praising Minerva, when the enemy was playing with her? We know that Erza and Jellal are infinitely superior to Minerva, they are not on the same level. So why do you keep creating fictions that Minerva did well in the fight, when she used all her power to face Luso Signario (who was joking) and couldn't do anything?

Luso was playing with Minerva, Jellal and Erza. Luso mostly defeated them by turning all three of them into dogs, since they couldn't undo the transformation. So are you saying that Luso could defeat Minerva, Jellal and Erza just by playing with them, and that is something bad for Minerva or about the fight itself? Because it only proves how good Luso's power is.

Minerva didn't need to be saved from a certain defeat in the battle against Luso; Minerva wasn't portrayed as someone who is far behind Erza and Jellal's reaction speed to deal with Luso's power. Minerva has feats dodging an AOE punch while keeping close to the AOE to defeat the creature who is punching, while Erza and Jellal run away from the AOE and kept themselves far from it. Minerva reacted being crushed by Luso's foot. Minerva was only hit when Jellal and Erza were too. Does Lucy have any speed feats to compete with a power that can hit regular battle mode Erza and Jellal?
Minerva was introduced in the manga as someone faster than Lucy, and she was portrayed as faster than Lucy until the Alvarez Empire Arc, so why suddenly did Lucy surpass Minerva's speed? Kiria was already treated like a piece of sh*t in comparison to Erza and Laxus far before her fight against Lucy, so why keep up with a power that can hit Jellal and Erza isn't a better feat than Lucy's?

Minerva didn't use all her power. She didn't show any signal of expending a relevant MP.

 

[Rigel]

Luso was playing with Minerva, Jellal and Erza. Luso mostly defeated them by turning all three of them into dogs, since they couldn't undo the transformation. So are you saying that Luso could defeat Minerva, Jellal and Erza just by playing with them, and that is something bad for Minerva or about the fight itself? Because it only proves how good Luso's power is.

Minerva didn't need to be saved from a certain defeat in the battle against Luso; Minerva wasn't portrayed as someone who is far behind Erza and Jellal's reaction speed to deal with Luso's power. Minerva has feats dodging an AOE punch while keeping close to the AOE to defeat the creature who is punching, while Erza and Jellal run away from the AOE and kept themselves far from it. Minerva reacted being crushed by Luso's foot. Minerva was only hit when Jellal and Erza were too. Does Lucy have any speed feats to compete with a power that can hit regular battle mode Erza and Jellal?
Minerva was introduced in the manga as someone faster than Lucy, and she was portrayed as faster than Lucy until the Alvarez Empire Arc, so why suddenly did Lucy surpass Minerva's speed? Kiria was already treated like a piece of sh*t in comparison to Erza and Laxus far before her fight against Lucy, so why keep up with a power that can hit Jellal and Erza isn't a better feat than Lucy's?

Minerva didn't use all her power. She didn't show any signal of expending a relevant MP.

That was a little funny to read.

You see, when I press you on the argument about Minerva's capabilities, you automatically try to equate Minerva with high-level mages. And that's when your argument stops making sense.

Jellal and Erza didn't do anything much in this fight, we know that they are much more powerful than presented in this battle. And we saw proof of this when Erza defeated Luso Signario with just one armor.

This same argument cannot be used for Minerva because she used all her spells (explosions, teleportation and even Yagd Rigola). She used everything she has presented so far in the manga in this fight against Luso, so there is no more powerful version than the one presented by Minerva in this battle.

So you need to stop using a fight in which Erza and Jellal didn't fight seriously, much less Luso Signario, as an argument to extol Minerva's power level. Stop, it doesn't make sense. It doesn't matter how much you distort the arguments.

To put an analogous situation into perspective for you, I'll return again to the Athena vs Lucy and Yukino argument.

Lucy managed to dodge Athena's lasers and even hit the robot with a surprise attack. And he also received a compliment from Athena for his resourcefulness in combat.

Obviously, you will mention that Yukino also dodged the attack and also participated in the fight, as a way of invalidating Lucy's performance. And I agree with you, however you are a hypocrite for not doing this when it comes to Minerva.

Since Lucy is also much more powerful than Yukino and didn't use her full power against Athena. In the same way that Jellal and Erza are far superior to Minerva.

What I want to tell you about all this is that although Yukino had a decent performance fighting alongside Lucy against Athena, it doesn't mean that Yukino had any relevant achievements in the fight. As you stated in arguments above.

And ironically, your argument can also be used for Minerva. But you haven't argued that way because your goal is to put Minerva at a level of power she isn't at.

And this is tiring because you don't intend to change your opinion, even though all your arguments have been refuted by everyone who participated in this discussion.

 

[Jko]

Same reason we been going over this since the chapter dropped. I care more about Erza's assessment than yours. You insist it has no outside influence, yet all DS mages are tankier than average mages, we have seen that the dragon elements have special abilities time and again, and literally Erza keeps using it as a boost against DS. Points you never bothered to disprove because you decided it's not one . Seriously though. She stacked as much DS magic as she could against Laxus but let's ignore it.

When did I say they equal dragons? I said that the magic is clearly helpful in dealing with them because Erza continues to use the stack against slayers when she needs a boost. I then posted the scans of her doing so. The onus is and has ever been on you to prove why it's not more effective against them. I will continue to wait though.

Erza never said DS seal does better against Human DS so your whole point about her "assessment" is mute. A regular fire dragon blade doesn't have anything special about it. Disprove something that has no proof? Again, where are you getting DS magic is super effective against Dragon Slayers?

The same Dragon Slayer "moves" did as much damage to Laxus as Gray's Ice Devil Slauer magic. Are you now going to say DeS is super effective against Humans cuz Erza used it on Laxus?

Spoiler

Oh, I guess Blumenblatt must have been too since Erza used it against Laxus and it did more dmg than the Fire DS blade and Belserion's blade, lmao. Again Slayer magic only works on super well on what it SLAYS and DRAGON Slayers that haven't undergone Dragonization aren't DRAGONS, they are HUMANS.

Spoiler

Again, it doesn't since DS magic is only super effective against Dragon as stated at the beginning of the series. You never posted a scan of DS magic being stated or shown to be super effective against any non-dragonized Dragon Slayer.

I won't hold my breath on your non-existent feats that "prove" DS magic is super effective against DS. Like I said before, stick to the canon facts and not your headcanon.

 

[Jhonatas Fernandes]

That was a little funny to read.

You see, when I press you on the argument about Minerva's capabilities, you automatically try to equate Minerva with high-level mages. And that's when your argument stops making sense.

Jellal and Erza didn't do anything much in this fight, we know that they are much more powerful than presented in this battle. And we saw proof of this when Erza defeated Luso Signario with just one armor.

This same argument cannot be used for Minerva because she used all her spells (explosions, teleportation and even Yagd Rigola). She used everything she has presented so far in the manga in this fight against Luso, so there is no more powerful version than the one presented by Minerva in this battle.

So you need to stop using a fight in which Erza and Jellal didn't fight seriously, much less Luso Signario, as an argument to extol Minerva's power level. Stop, it doesn't make sense. It doesn't matter how much you distort the arguments.

To put an analogous situation into perspective for you, I'll return again to the Athena vs Lucy and Yukino argument.

Lucy managed to dodge Athena's lasers and even hit the robot with a surprise attack. And he also received a compliment from Athena for his resourcefulness in combat.

Obviously, you will mention that Yukino also dodged the attack and also participated in the fight, as a way of invalidating Lucy's performance. And I agree with you, however you are a hypocrite for not doing this when it comes to Minerva.

Since Lucy is also much more powerful than Yukino and didn't use her full power against Athena. In the same way that Jellal and Erza are far superior to Minerva.

What I want to tell you about all this is that although Yukino had a decent performance fighting alongside Lucy against Athena, it doesn't mean that Yukino had any relevant achievements in the fight. As you stated in arguments above.

And ironically, your argument can also be used for Minerva. But you haven't argued that way because your goal is to put Minerva at a level of power she isn't at.

And this is tiring because you don't intend to change your opinion, even though all your arguments have been refuted by everyone who participated in this discussion.

Yukino is a weak wizard overall, so if she dodges something, a thousand wizards of this manga also can. If Erza and Jellal dodges something, it is not the same case as Yukino's. Athena didn't have any relevant feats as a physical fighter; she just defeated Athena II after the latter had lost her stolen power, and she was shown defeating (small) dragons with explosions and nukes, not fighting them in cqc, and she also appeared in another form fighting the dragons, as if her body can change at will to enhance her power. Athena did nothing against Lucy and Yukino, once her great spell against them was an illusion. Luso however, hit Erza and Jellal multiple times, which is a solid portrait of someone strong enough to deal with regular battle mode Erza.
You can't say that something that Yukino dodged is difficult to dodge, but you can say that a power that hit Erza and Jellal multiple times is fast. Am I clear?

 

[GL_Nova]

Erza never said DS seal does better against Human DS so your whole point about her "assessment" is mute. A regular fire dragon blade doesn't have anything special about it. Disprove something that has no proof? Again, where are you getting DS magic is super effective against Dragon Slayers?

The same Dragon Slayer "moves" did as much damage to Laxus as Gray's Ice Devil Slauer magic. Are you now going to say DeS is super effective against Humans cuz Erza used it on Laxus?

Spoiler

Oh, I guess Blumenblatt must have been too since Erza used it against Laxus and it did more dmg than the Fire DS blade and Belserion's blade, lmao. Again Slayer magic only works on super well on what it SLAYS and DRAGON Slayers that haven't undergone Dragonization aren't DRAGONS, they are HUMANS.

Spoiler

Again, it doesn't since DS magic is only super effective against Dragon as stated at the beginning of the series. You never posted a scan of DS magic being stated or shown to be super effective against any non-dragonized Dragon Slayer.

I won't hold my breath on your non-existent feats that "prove" DS magic is super effective against DS. Like I said before, stick to the canon facts and not your headcanon.

Again, you spoke to something I didn't say, and ignored the actual points made. A consistent technique I'm noticing. Erza makes the statement she got the blade because it's a dragon job and she is gunna test it out on Kiria. An assessment we know because she has a plethora of armors and chose to use a DS slayer sword against her and not any of her other myriad armors. A choice she repeated when faced with Laxus. Doubling down and stacking not only the DS blade, but a DS seal on top of it so all her attacks would be Dragon Slaying Magic. So we should ignore that because you've decided DS magic isn't anything special.

Though Slayers are considered, across the board and entirely to be superior to their regular element using counterparts. A the slayers are as previously mentioned the tankiest mages around. Literally every Fire dragon thing we've encountered has been treated as special my guy sooo wtf you talking about? Demon Slayer is a type of slaying magic and the other slayers have been several of the biggest obstacles for our heroes. Every slayer we've encountered has been treated as a menace. Also Gray's magic was being used while she has her DS seal activated, so it would also serve as DS magic stacked on the DeS spells. Unless you have proof that it wouldn't be affected. Do respond this time. To what was actually said.

She is literally wearing a DS seal the entire fight. You can see it multiple times. An what damage did Blumenblatt do? Yall really be trying to rewrite the duel like we didn't all read it. She lands, what 3 blows the first chapter? A kick, which got her shocked and blasted for making contact, her counter slash which was superficial, and then she amps with Natsu and Gray to land a blow and again gets immediately fried. They trade blows for two pages, he whiffs a spell, she launches Blumenblatt and he literally obliterates all her swords. So what is this paragraph talking about...then we have your repeat of your weak a$$ argument. Which again only survives because you keep ignoring the part where DS magic turns the users more dragon like, hence why practicing it without parent magic anti-bodies turns you into a f*ck*** dragon..

then you repeat your own personal deduction, sans evidence, or a rebuttal for the story elements that blatantly disagree with you. Oh ok

 

[Darklord#10]

Erza never said DS seal does better against Human DS so your whole point about her "assessment" is mute. A regular fire dragon blade doesn't have anything special about it. Disprove something that has no proof? Again, where are you getting DS magic is super effective against Dragon Slayers?

The same Dragon Slayer "moves" did as much damage to Laxus as Gray's Ice Devil Slauer magic. Are you now going to say DeS is super effective against Humans cuz Erza used it on Laxus?

Spoiler

Oh, I guess Blumenblatt must have been too since Erza used it against Laxus and it did more dmg than the Fire DS blade and Belserion's blade, lmao. Again Slayer magic only works on super well on what it SLAYS and DRAGON Slayers that haven't undergone Dragonization aren't DRAGONS, they are HUMANS.

Spoiler

Again, it doesn't since DS magic is only super effective against Dragon as stated at the beginning of the series. You never posted a scan of DS magic being stated or shown to be super effective against any non-dragonized Dragon Slayer.

I won't hold my breath on your non-existent feats that "prove" DS magic is super effective against DS. Like I said before, stick to the canon facts and not your headcanon.

I agree with your point but don't say natsu is a human. He's not a fodder creature. He's triune

. Solos everything and everyone(except god tiers)

--- Double Post Merged, Aug 6, 2024, Original Post Date: Aug 6, 2024 ---

Yukino is a weak wizard overall, so if she dodges something, a thousand wizards of this manga also can. If Erza and Jellal dodges something, it is not the same case as Yukino's. Athena didn't have any relevant feats as a physical fighter; she just defeated Athena II after the latter had lost her stolen power, and she was shown defeating (small) dragons with explosions and nukes, not fighting them in cqc, and she also appeared in another form fighting the dragons, as if her body can change at will to enhance her power. Athena did nothing against Lucy and Yukino, once her great spell against them was an illusion. Luso however, hit Erza and Jellal multiple times, which is a solid portrait of someone strong enough to deal with regular battle mode Erza.
You can't say that something that Yukino dodged is difficult to dodge, but you can say that a power that hit Erza and Jellal multiple times is fast. Am I clear?

Didn't you freaking praise Minerva for beating historia wahl and kagura because she got praised by spriggan??? Why can't you do that with yukino and Lucy they clearly were praised by Athena? Oh right Athena doesn't have any feats so you don't use that but you use dimaria who lost to a fodderling like sherria and larcade who lost to sting. A year ago sting and most especially sherria wasn't even on the same level with Minerva or lagura the fodder duckling

 

[Rigel]

Yukino is a weak wizard overall, so if she dodges something, a thousand wizards of this manga also can. If Erza and Jellal dodges something, it is not the same case as Yukino's. Athena didn't have any relevant feats as a physical fighter; she just defeated Athena II after the latter had lost her stolen power, and she was shown defeating (small) dragons with explosions and nukes, not fighting them in cqc, and she also appeared in another form fighting the dragons, as if her body can change at will to enhance her power. Athena did nothing against Lucy and Yukino, once her great spell against them was an illusion. Luso however, hit Erza and Jellal multiple times, which is a solid portrait of someone strong enough to deal with regular battle mode Erza.
You can't say that something that Yukino dodged is difficult to dodge, but you can say that a power that hit Erza and Jellal multiple times is fast. Am I clear?

You are wrong.

Athena V2 managed to defeat the entire A Team + Rogue and Jellal, using physical abilities and some spells. After that, Athena managed to fight Athena V2 and defeated her alone.

Regarding Yukino, she is an excellent parallel to Minerva. Both are very weak compared to Lucy, Jellal and Erza.

And again, Minerva used all her power against Luso Signario and was unable to surprise Luso at any point, as Signario was playing the entire fight. This clearly shows how weak Minerva is compared to all the characters in this fight.

 

[FireIce]

After that, Athena managed to fight Athena V2 and defeated her alone.

I mean they are right, she only defeated Athena II after Duke lost to Natsu. When she was basically left powerless. Athena did nothing before that.

 

[Rigel]

I mean they are right, she only defeated Athena II after Duke lost to Natsu. When she was basically left powerless. Athena did nothing before that.

I kind of "rewatched" that fight.

Athena managed to stop Athena V2 before this twice.

The second time, she stopped Athena V2 from helping Duke against Natsu.

Athena showed physical strength comparable to Athena V2 in these two moments as it prevented her from doing anything.

 

[FireIce]

I kind of "rewatched" that fight.

Athena managed to stop Athena V2 before this twice.

The second time, she stopped Athena V2 from helping Duke against Natsu.

Athena showed physical strength comparable to Athena V2 in these two moments as it prevented her from doing anything.

The first time, there was no movement from Athena II. She was just standing there and about to take Natsu's magic. Athena pretty much went between them.

I'm still not convinced about that second part because it was a brief exchange. The fact that Lucy and Taurus managed to push her back makes me believe that Athena II, who overpowered Erza, Jellal and Gray, would just overwhelm Athena in a brawl.

 

[Rigel]

The first time, there was no movement from Athena II. She was just standing there and about to take Natsu's magic. Athena pretty much went between them.

I'm still not convinced about that second part because it was a brief exchange. The fact that Lucy and Taurus managed to push her back makes me believe that Athena II, who overpowered Erza, Jellal and Gray, would just overwhelm Athena in a brawl.

That's a possibility, but Athena was created to face Dragons and and was portrayed as superior to Team Natsu and on Zeref's level.

She is also capable of stealing magic. And even though Athena isn't at Athena V2's level, she was still able to briefly compete against her in a physical confrontation. If she managed to stop Athena V2 from preventing Natsu from defeating Duke, it means that Athena has high physical capabilities.

 

[Jhonatas Fernandes]

Didn't you freaking praise Minerva for beating historia wahl and kagura because she got praised by spriggan??? Why can't you do that with yukino and Lucy they clearly were praised by Athena? Oh right Athena doesn't have any feats so you don't use that but you use dimaria who lost to a fodderling like sherria and larcade who lost to sting. A year ago sting and most especially sherria wasn't even on the same level with Minerva or lagura the fodder duckling

The main topic of this discussion is speed and physical combat prowess. Did Athena praise those attributes on Lucy and Yukino? No. Athena said that she thought they were mere girls, and realized that they weren't just mere girls, ie, they weren't inoffensive girls as she thought.

In comparison, Ennie said that Erza, Jellal, and Minerva might be wizards worth of their names, and again it was stated in the narrative that Luso and Ennie see God Serena as someone who is below both of them in power level. What praise is more significant?

Backing to the main discussion:
Kagura isn't fast just because she was praised by Larcade and Dimaria. Kagura is fast because she was introduced in the manga as someone who could even surpass Erza's speed for a while in physical combat. After, on Empire Alvarez Arc, the narrative showed her speed being praised by two opponents who are far stronger than her, which means that the narrative keeps portraying her as someone fast. If Kagura is fast enough to be praised by two Spriggans for it, why Lucy, who never is praised for this attribute, is faster than her?
Sherria defeated Dimaria with a power given by Ultear. Sting needed Rogue's power + DF to defeat Larcade, and Sting and Rogue were portrayed as strong since they fought base Mard Geer for a long time and defeated Demon Jienma (who surpassed all other demons in strength). Sting and Rogue were already portrayed defeating the two strongest demon from Tartaros. Is really strange that Sting enhanced by Rogue's power + DF could defeat the third strongest Spriggan?

Fairy Tail Power Ranking is not consistent. But the manga, by continuous portrait, sustains that Minerva and Kagura are faster than Lucy.

 

[Darklord#10]

The main topic of this discussion is speed and physical combat prowess. Did Athena praise those attributes on Lucy and Yukino? No. Athena said that she thought they were mere girls, and realized that they weren't just mere girls, ie, they weren't inoffensive girls as she thought.

In comparison, Ennie said that Erza, Jellal, and Minerva might be wizards worth of their names, and again it was stated in the narrative that Luso and Ennie see God Serena as someone who is below both of them in power level. What praise is more significant?

Backing to the main discussion:
Kagura isn't fast just because she was praised by Larcade and Dimaria. Kagura is fast because she was introduced in the manga as someone who could even surpass Erza's speed for a while in physical combat. After, on Empire Alvarez Arc, the narrative showed her speed being praised by two opponents who are far stronger than her, which means that the narrative keeps portraying her as someone fast. If Kagura is fast enough to be praised by two Spriggans for it, why Lucy, who never is praised for this attribute, is faster than her?
Sherria defeated Dimaria with a power given by Ultear. Sting needed Rogue's power + DF to defeat Larcade, and Sting and Rogue were portrayed as strong since they fought base Mard Geer for a long time and defeated Demon Jienma (who surpassed all other demons in strength). Sting and Rogue were already portrayed defeating the two strongest demon from Tartaros. Is really strange that Sting enhanced by Rogue's power + DF could defeat the third strongest Spriggan?

Fairy Tail Power Ranking is not consistent. But the manga, by continuous portrait, sustains that Minerva and Kagura are faster than Lucy.

Who's stronger natsu or Erza, secondly rank the black dragon slayer knights

 

[Jhonatas Fernandes]

You are wrong.

Athena V2 managed to defeat the entire A Team + Rogue and Jellal, using physical abilities and some spells. After that, Athena managed to fight Athena V2 and defeated her alone.

Regarding Yukino, she is an excellent parallel to Minerva. Both are very weak compared to Lucy, Jellal and Erza.

And again, Minerva used all her power against Luso Signario and was unable to surprise Luso at any point, as Signario was playing the entire fight. This clearly shows how weak Minerva is compared to all the characters in this fight.

Nope. Athena II just beat Jellal and Erza beceuse they were fatigued after their recent battles. Athena II did that after stealing the powers from Wendy, Rogue and Natsu. Athena was stomped by Athena II and just could win after Athena II lost all her powers.

Minerva didn't use all her power against Luso. Luso is a wizard who attacks mostly by creating creatures, and Minerva defeats two of them. Luso escaped Minerva's magic and physical attack, she didn't just tank it. Athena, however, tanked all cast by Lucy and Yukino and overcame it without any damage.

There is no way Minerva is very weak compared to Lucy since the only way for Lucy to win against Minerva is by burning all her Magic Power in a spell. How can Minerva be far weaker than Lucy when the latter necessarily needs to use all her MP to defeat Minerva?

Speed: Minerva > Lucy.
Physical combat: Minerva > Lucy.

Do I need to say how Minerva's magic has advantaged over Lucy?