Fujitora vs. Doflamingo

[vagabond87]

Ok, Akainu was injured, so was everyone else pretty much. It was a war. And despite the dramatic line-up, did Akainu actually fight, much less defeat, the WB commanders? Also, if every Admiral was Akainu we wouldn't be having this discussion to begin with because you wouldn't be making the statement that DD was near Admiral level. If Akainu is so overwhelmingly powerful, as you suggest, surely he wouldn't have a problem taking out DD and his entire crew, which sort of runs at odds with what you've previously suggested. However, this is pretty much pointless, Fujitora isn't Akainu, and DD isn't one of the WB commanders, or the lot of them.



I'm certain the entire purpose of my intervention was to say that what you were addressing was irrelevant. I'm also certain it was you that requested I expound on that. You were meandering away from the point of this thread before I stopped by, which was the point of my initial comment.

1. Akainu won with other Admiral after 10 days of fighting. Difference between any admiral compared to other isnt bigger than this in my opinion.
PS. He burned Curiel to a crisp.
2. Our discussion taken it further from the subject as it went.

Doflamingo is hinted to be close in my opinio to an Admiral. I might be wrong though and I am expecting some clarification on it during this arc.

 

[KingOfNight]

Burgess tanked attack from Garp only in anime.
Also one more thing- it was shown that BB crew during Marineford War wasnt killed by Sengoku + Garp combined.
Two fighters slightly under level of Admiral combined were not able to beat/overwhelm Blackbeard and his crew.
So why one Admiral should be capable of beating Doflamingo, his seats and rest of crew.

By those two you mean Garp and Sengoku? The battle didn't really continue so we don't know what would've happened. Aside from Doflamingo, his crew seems completely weak. We haven't seen the seats in action, but I don't believe they will be more powerful than his right hand man, Vergo. One attack from an Admiral will take out most of the crew excluding maybe the seats and DD.

KingOfNight- one new tought came to me. It was said that stronger somebody gets stronger that persons DF ability is. So if Doflamingo was able to stop Jozu with his devil fruit and we didnt seen Jozu being able to move even slightest bit, he just gotten pissed with vein on his head at Doflamingo that means than as person Doflamingo probably is overally stronger than Jozu. Jozu who lost to Admiral but he put up a fight.

I don't get the bold part.

But we didn't really see DD besting him either. I really doubt he's stronger than Jozu just because he stopped him.

 

[vagabond87]

By those two you mean Garp and Sengoku? The battle didn't really continue so we don't know what would've happened. Aside from Doflamingo, his crew seems completely weak. We haven't seen the seats in action, but I don't believe they will be more powerful than his right hand man, Vergo. One attack from an Admiral will take out most of the crew excluding maybe the seats and DD.

I don't get the bold part.

But we didn't really see DD besting him either. I really doubt he's stronger than Jozu just because he stopped him.

As for bolded part- It was said that Devil Fruit ability grows stronger with its user so stronger somebody gets, stronger his ability gets also stronger. So I dont say that Doflamingo was able to cut Jozu into ribbons but he for sure was capable of fluuy immobilizing him so Doflamingos DF power + haki > Jozu physical strength + haki(from what was shown).
Lets get back to this subject later on this arc- we will have more situations to discuss. I suggest it.. For now Im tired with that subject, there is not much material for discussion anymore I think.
I cant agree with Doflamingos crew being shown as completely weak.. I cant discuss if you see it like that. Really.
We didnt seen seats in action but we are about to see Diamante soon.

 

[Impossibility]

1. Akainu won with other Admiral after 10 days of fighting. Difference between any admiral compared to other isnt bigger than this in my opinion.
PS. He burned Curiel to a crisp.
2. Our discussion taken it further from the subject as it went.

Which is to say he was better than Aokiji, nothing to mention about the other 3 Admirals. Curiel is one division commander, there are 16 divisions. After the line-up of the commanders, everything is a mess. And the vast majority of those commanders are later seen engaged on other fronts. There is nothing to discuss.

Doflamingo is hinted to be close in my opinio to an Admiral. I might be wrong though and I am expecting some clarification on it during this arc.

I disagree that the manga has suggested any such thing.

 

[vagabond87]

Which is to say he was better than Aokiji, nothing to mention about the other 3 Admirals. Curiel is one division commander, there are 16 divisions. After the line-up of the commanders, everything is a mess. And the vast majority of those commanders are later seen engaged on other fronts. There is nothing to discuss.



I disagree that the manga has suggested any such thing.

1. Which is to say that they were so close to each other in therms of combat power that it took 10 days of fighting to get a winner.

2. I get that you disagree. Manga should soon show how close Doflamingo is to an Marine Admiral.

 

[Impossibility]

1. Which is to say that they were so close to each other in therms of combat power that it took 10 days of fighting to get a winner.

Which is to say that Akainu defeated Aokiji, and still nothing about the 3 other Admirals.

2. I get that you disagree. Manga should soon show how close Doflamingo is to an Marine Admiral.

And if and when the manga provides some details, then you can base your arguments on said statements or events, and I'm going to gladly accept whatever the manga puts forth.

 

[vagabond87]

Which is to say that Akainu defeated Aokiji, and still nothing about the 3 other Admirals.



And if and when the manga provides some details, then you can base your arguments on said statements or events, and I'm going to gladly accept whatever the manga puts forth.

Sometimes context or words that character use point towards some things but as you seem to be "matematic" type of person I wont give you for now clearly written "Doflamingo is just slightly weaker than Admiral".
You accept what is easy for you to understand as it doesnt left place for doubt or speculation. It must be clearly written.

Between Aokiji and Akainu it was razor thin difference. I dont expect Admirals to differ as much as Vice Admirals for example. They differ by small margins.

Small example towards small gap between an Admiral and Doflamingo:

Spoiler

He does not show signs of fear of "my life is in danger"
He goes for the kill and gets frozen as he has Kuzan standing 1m behind him and he has his back wide open at him while he is SITTING on Smokers chest.

Spoiler

He gets frozen and after moment breaks out of ice with smile on his face and without ANY visible injury.
He was 1m from Admiral who was standing just behind his back.
Here he says that he doesnt feel much like fighting Kuzan and that he cant silence Smoker

Spoiler

So he knows that he would bargain with his life if they would fight but he isnt motivated to take such a risk as he knows that there are other options for him.
He wasnt afraid or shitting his pants in any of those situations.
Doflamingo fodderized Smoker who is decent Vice Admiral from what we seen.

Only person that made Doflamingo show fear is Kaido who is said to be strongest. Of course he was unhappy with Fujitora not being attacking only Law but he didnt had any problem with slicing meteorite to pieces.
Since quite a time for me he is shown to be just slightly behind Admiral "level". Way that Oda draws him, his strength and abilities when he fought Law were better by some margin also if we exclude "worn out Law" thing.

He stopped Jozu with his ability- he would be able to do same whenever they would fight, Jozu devil fruit would be probably only problem when it comes to finishing Jozu off. Jozu who gave Aokiji a fight that lasted for some time.

Also his status as most influeantal and- as said by Law- most powereful New World Broker also points how special, strong pirate he is.

 

[Impossibility]

Sometimes context or words that character use point towards some things but as you seem to be "matematic" type of person I wont give you for now clearly written "Doflamingo is just slightly weaker than Admiral".
You accept what is easy for you to understand as it doesnt left place for doubt or speculation. It must be clearly written.

Between Aokiji and Akainu it was razor thin difference. I dont expect Admirals to differ as much as Vice Admirals for example. They differ by small margins.

And you seem to be the type to constantly make baseless statements. For your entire argument that DD was close to Fujitora in power, you presented nothing other than flawed logic, you equivocate endlessly. And you continue with statements like the Admirals 'differ by small margins' that just seem to spout forth randomly without reason or rhyme.

 

[vagabond87]

And you seem to be the type to constantly make baseless statements. For your entire argument that DD was close to Fujitora in power, you presented nothing other than flawed logic, you equivocate endlessly. And you continue with statements like the Admirals 'differ by small margins' that just seem to spout forth randomly without reason or rhyme.

How high of you.
Your statements doesnt differ much and seem to be based on preferences, personal views as much as mine so you are in no position to comment on my flawled logic. Its not my fault that you dont understand some logic applied to manga in situation when it doesnt go along your liking.

I really dont know why you see my logic so flawless if all it does that it points towards Doflamingo being just slightly weaker than Fujitora.
Also Admirals dont differ much- its not baseless statement as they were shown by Oda as equals, absolute top of Marines. It was also confirmed in a way by how long Aokiji vs Akainu lasted. As for New Admirals- all of Admirals are oldtimers with their devil fruit powers perfected and with decades of fighting behind them, I dont see any reason to differ them as they represent absolute peak, the limit of what Marine can become. Thats how I concluded that there is overal "Admiral level" line and Doflamingo is very close to it. Lets say line is 100 and Doflamingo is around 95 on it. Writing this way for you to understand.

With one exception of Garp who is portrayed as only legendary marine that was somehow able to fight equaly with Roger.

 

[SoloGG]

Fujitora would win with mid difficulty, nothing more nothing less.

 

[Impossibility]

How high of you.
Your statements doesnt differ much and seem to be based on preferences, personal views as much as mine so you are in no position to comment on my flawled logic. Its not my fault that you dont understand some logic applied to manga in situation when it doesnt go along your liking.

Personal views? I simply refer to the view offered by the source material. And I dislike your sense of logic because it just doesn't make much sense and assumes far too much without any reason whatsoever.

I really dont know why you see my logic so flawless if all it does that it points towards Doflamingo being just slightly weaker than Fujitora.
Also Admirals dont differ much- its not baseless statement as they were shown by Oda as equals, absolute top of Marines. It was also confirmed in a way by how long Aokiji vs Akainu lasted. As for New Admirals- all of Admirals are oldtimers with their devil fruit powers perfected and with decades of fighting behind them, I dont see any reason to differ them as they represent absolute peak, the limit of what Marine can become. Thats how I concluded that there is overal "Admiral level" line and Doflamingo is very close to it. Lets say line is 100 and Doflamingo is around 95 on it. Writing this way for you to understand.

With one exception of Garp who is portrayed as only legendary marine that was somehow able to fight equaly with Roger.

It's baseless. Because equality in status isn't indicative of an equality in power or strength. The VAs maintain the same title, yet they differ wildly in ability, the same goes for the Shichibukai. Your argument is nonsensical because it assumes some maximum level that will simply be achieved as a result of time served as a marine, it assumes no difference in natural ability or talent, or even effort over said time. Even is there is a minimum level necessary to become an Admiral, it isn't necessary that any of the Admirals are just at that level. And the only basis we have for the strength of the Admriral is what has been put forth, not some arbitrary system of your own making. You make a number of baseless assumptions to support such a specious claim.

 

[vagabond87]

This is just a manga. Some things are hinted like for example Yonko sharing same status and having similar amount of power or admirals fighting for 10 days to pick a winner showing how close to each other they are with Kizaru being no different. This isnt builded up same as Worlords so you are simply mistaken or you dont know how to understand some things shown.
You say I assume, I say its probably personal difference between you and me. You need everything to be stated, sticking under your nose. My assumption is most often logic being pushed over what was shown.
For me its nonsence to discuss those matters as you are not adding anything since quite few posts, just commenting-stating your opinionions about my logic.

By all that calling on my views I see you now as someone who himself is lacking some perks so to say to be able to acknowledge some things that are hinted, not stated. Im tired of this talk as its a waste of time of ignorant person such as you. Write whatever you want.

 

[Impossibility]

This is just a manga. Some things are hinted like for example Yonko sharing same status and having similar amount of power or admirals fighting for 10 days to pick a winner showing how close to each other they are with Kizaru being no different. This isnt builded up same as Worlords so you are simply mistaken or you dont know how to understand some things shown.
You say I assume, I say its probably personal difference between you and me. You need everything to be stated, sticking under your nose. My assumption is most often logic being pushed over what was shown.
For me its nonsence to discuss those matters as you are not adding anything since quite few posts, just commenting-stating your opinionions about my logic.

By all that calling on my views I see you now as someone who himself is lacking some perks so to say to be able to acknowledge some things that are hinted, not stated. Im tired of this talk as its a waste of time of ignorant person such as you. Write whatever you want.

I can take hints. You simply haven't shown where the manga has provided any thing that comes close to what you're suggesting. Its not as though you even made a mistake on the source, or had a bit of a mix-up. Your argument lacked valid reasoning from the start. I decided to take some time to point that out to you.

 

[vagabond87]

I can take hints. You simply haven't shown where the manga has provided any thing that comes close to what you're suggesting. Its not as though you even made a mistake on the source, or had a bit of a mix-up. Your argument lacked valid reasoning from the start. I decided to take some time to point that out to you.

Points taken(in a way). Now feed on somebody else and elaborate on different matters.

 

[kkck]

I don't think a shichibukai necessarily has to be weaker than an admiral. If anything, I wouldn't be surprised if boa, mihawk and doflamingo were actual threats to them. Doflamingo has essentially foderized smoker and law so far, mihawk was someone who fought evenly with shanks apparently and boa is a conqueror's haki user whom even sengoku praised back in the day. The shichibukai don't need to be kept in check by the marines either, the entire point of the title is that they will be free to do as they please which is exactly the issue that has been present with the crap that doflamingo, crocodile and blackbeard have pulled over the last couple of years.

Considering what doflamingo has done to smoker and law I would argue he is a clear candidate to being comparable in strength to an admiral. He has a powerful and versatile fruit, mastery over haki, manages a rather large and powerful crew and we have barely even seen the full extent of his powers. Realistically speaking doflamingo is someone seriously aiming for pirate king, he needs that sort of strength to get there. His smile plan also evidently has some other end than selling weapons for profit considering the sort of man doflamingo is which kinda implies kaido is sort of a target for him more than a customer. Doflamingo needs some serious power to pull of the stuff he is up to and I doubt he doesn't have it.

 

[vagabond87]

I don't think a shichibukai necessarily has to be weaker than an admiral. If anything, I wouldn't be surprised if boa, mihawk and doflamingo were actual threats to them. Doflamingo has essentially foderized smoker and law so far, mihawk was someone who fought evenly with shanks apparently and boa is a conqueror's haki user whom even sengoku praised back in the day. The shichibukai don't need to be kept in check by the marines either, the entire point of the title is that they will be free to do as they please which is exactly the issue that has been present with the crap that doflamingo, crocodile and blackbeard have pulled over the last couple of years.

Considering what doflamingo has done to smoker and law I would argue he is a clear candidate to being comparable in strength to an admiral. He has a powerful and versatile fruit, mastery over haki, manages a rather large and powerful crew and we have barely even seen the full extent of his powers. Realistically speaking doflamingo is someone seriously aiming for pirate king, he needs that sort of strength to get there. His smile plan also evidently has some other end than selling weapons for profit considering the sort of man doflamingo is which kinda implies kaido is sort of a target for him more than a customer. Doflamingo needs some serious power to pull of the stuff he is up to and I doubt he doesn't have it.

I love you post so much that I want to marry it

My thoughts exactly. Finally some person here with resonable seeing things that were hinted.

 

[Impossibility]

I don't think a shichibukai necessarily has to be weaker than an admiral. If anything, I wouldn't be surprised if boa, mihawk and doflamingo were actual threats to them.

I agree, they don't have to be necessarily weaker, even if the ones we have seen in action have seemed short of the mark. However, the weight of the title seems to vary significantly. Vergo was a VA and DD seemed completely confident that he could defeat Law, his fellow Shichibukai. Add Buggy to the mix, and its easy to see why the title of Shichibukai is a far cry from that of Admiral. Shichibukai appears to be the title that is the least constrained in terms of the powers one could expect from an individual that bears it.

Considering what doflamingo has done to smoker and law I would argue he is a clear candidate to being comparable in strength to an admiral. He has a powerful and versatile fruit, mastery over haki, manages a rather large and powerful crew and we have barely even seen the full extent of his powers.

DD's defeat of Smoker doesn't seem like a feat that's worth much. He defeated a worn out, and injured, VA that couldn't hope to pose a serious threat to Vergo, another VA, with his notorious weapon on hand. DD's defeat of Law is a feat worth mentioning, although it would've been more impressive if it wasn't a worn-out and injured Law that he faced.

 

[BASED Shinigami]

Fujitora. I believe the only characters in OP that can defeat the marine admirals are the Four Emperors. Yes, we've seen numerous characters that are strong enough to combat the admirals on seemingly equal ground (Marco, Rayleigh, Jozu etc.), but we've only seen one character to this date who was able to completely overpower an admiral in a fight. Whitebeard was the only pirate in the war capable of manhandling an admiral when used his powers. Akainu didn't attempt to challenge Whitebeard again after he got thrashed around by Haki imbued quake fists because, he knew Whitebeard could possibly kill him. Also, Law stated the Yonko would regularly battle each-other for territory in the New World, so I'm going to surmise Big Mom, Shanks, and Kaido were just as strong as an aging Whitebeard if not more powerful than him. At any rate, I see DD as one of the few characters strong enough to give an admiral a difficult time in combat, but not someone who would emerge victorious in a death battle against any one of the current admirals.

 

[hawk eye]

Fujitora. I believe the only characters in OP that can defeat the marine admirals are the Four Emperors. Yes, we've seen numerous characters that are strong enough to combat the admirals on seemingly equal ground (Marco, Rayleigh, Jozu etc.), but we've only seen one character to this date who was able to completely overpower an admiral in a fight. Whitebeard was the only pirate in the war capable of manhandling an admiral when used his powers. Akainu didn't attempt to challenge Whitebeard again after he got thrashed around by Haki imbued quake fists because, he knew Whitebeard could possibly kill him. Also, Law stated the Yonko would regularly battle each-other for territory in the New World, so I'm going to surmise Big Mom, Shanks, and Kaido were just as strong as an aging Whitebeard if not more powerful than him. At any rate, I see DD as one of the few characters strong enough to give an admiral a difficult time in combat, but not someone who would emerge victorious in a death battle against any one of the current admirals.

well said! although i don't think that fujitora is as strong as the old trio, i'd say he's still above doflamingo with a considerable gap(he would need mid-high difficulty to beat him).

 

[Donquixote1987]

I love Doflamingo but I wouldn't dare say that it even comes close to Fujitora.