on't underestimate Sanji just because we haven't seen more of him combat wise, but we got a glimpse he is stronger than others think as we saw him handling Daifuku and Oven without much struggle especially as the anime shows it more by Oda's orders. So pretty sure he can reach up taking a Sweet Commander and Calamity lvl. Especially if you think about Luffy being a "Yonko", his top commanders would be as follow Sanji, Zoro, and Jimbei (Though I still see him as more leader of Grand Fleet than official crew mate to me) as these are the top strongest of the crew underneath the captain, so Sanji will and have to be stronger to be at lvl of not just Monster Trio, but also Top commander of the Strawhats too.
I think there is a gap in understanding...
First of all, I think Sanji is close to Zoro in terms of strength, lagging behind slightly. That is the narrative Oda has written and decided to have all this while... Only update to this was Sanji's bounty, which is higher because of Vinsmoke's notoriety...
So Sanji is clearly quite capable, and I do think he is strong enough to fight one of the calamities...
my statement, "
clearly is limited to what we've observed him achieve in new world.
Yes, he did stop Daifuku, kick Owen etc, but in terms of strength, it really cant be gauged since it wasnt really a fight. Whereas Zoro did get an opportunity to take on Pica, intimidate an opponent without haki and slice a huge dragon...
I am not saying Sanji is weak, just saying that he is still owed more screen-time specific to strength.
1)Zoro vs Basil - skirmish in which Basil tests the SH's in order to free Kidd, Zoro still come out on top
2)Zoro vs Drake - Zoro wins with high difficulty and Sandai kitetsu breaks. the winning strike is Shishi sonson with Shusui
3)Brook vs Apoo - Music battle which Apoo wins, only to lose to Sanji after, Sanji's win is completely ignored and crapped on since Brook did some damage to Apoo before.
4)Robin vs Headliner closest to the king, robin wins
5)Robin and Drake who switched sides vs the king(Newest calamity) - The reason Wano chose to stay disconnected from the world and the creation of the poneglyphs revealed. King wins.
6)Zoro vs King - Zoro goes all out, having Nidai Kitetsu and winning - Hardest fight yet and he collapses after it. 3rd Road poneglyph copied by robin.
7)Franky vs Headliner
8)Sanji vs Jack - Sanji wins and finally gets some respect
9)Queen not fighting at all and stays with Kaido for the next arc
Next arc - Queen, Smoothie and Marco at a 3 way battle.
Nekomamushi, Inuarashi & Minks vs Jack
Zoro, Killer & Wano People vs Shogun
Marco & remeining WB Pirates vs Calamitie No. 2 ("Queen")
Remaining SH and Hearth Piratrs vs Calamitie No. 3 ("King")
Supernova Captains (Luffy, Law, Kid, Drake, Hawkins, Apoo) vs Kaido
My current favorite matchup against Kaido would be:
Moria, Hawkins, Luffy, Law, Kidd vs. Kaido
Moria strengthens Luffy with some shadows. Powerboost Number one ->
Hawkins draws a card which strenghtens Luffy even more. (Maybe even with help from Law, if hee can manipulate his carddeck.)
Law, for a surprise attack with Luffy, like they did against doflamingo.
Kidd uses his power to give luffy more armor and coats his Fists in metal.
So basically its a JRPG bossfight. It just misses one person who can weaken Kaido. The point is, with this setup Luffy can actually be a real powerhouse who gets a legitimate win over Kaido and still has room to improve.
I think there is a gap in understanding...
First of all, I think Sanji is close to Zoro in terms of strength, lagging behind slightly. That is the narrative Oda has written and decided to have all this while... Only update to this was Sanji's bounty, which is higher because of Vinsmoke's notoriety...
So Sanji is clearly quite capable, and I do think he is strong enough to fight one of the calamities...
my statement, "
clearly is limited to what we've observed him achieve in new world.
Yes, he did stop Daifuku, kick Owen etc, but in terms of strength, it really cant be gauged since it wasnt really a fight. Whereas Zoro did get an opportunity to take on Pica, intimidate an opponent without haki and slice a huge dragon...
I am not saying Sanji is weak, just saying that he is still owed more screen-time specific to strength.
Only Oda knows that as so far we can't really determine what their full power is as Both Sanji and Zoro never showcased the type of full struggle like Luffy has shown in opponents to really push their limits more, but I get what you mean on Zoro on his fights than Sanji, but his were more weaker subordinates compare to Sanji on who he been facing with. Don't think you can compare Hody on Doflamingo lvl and say Zoro is stronger than that since he hasn't prove much either. Just saying is all.
Those feats though are still feats as Sanji stop Daifuku twice even his larger Genie's form and move past before anyone can blink when he attack Oven, so he does have physical capabilities and Pica is someone who Sanji probably won't waste time on breaking rocks all day as since he has better Observation, he probably will find Pica's true body and go after that and with his speed it's possible and dragon feat isn't really something. Sanji have beaten animals and creatures before, so don't know why you put that as a feat and intimidation Sanji also has when push more in a fight, but people sometimes forget that as he do things in different way.
I get what you mean, but Sanji got his feats down especially anime put canon-filler to showcased it more since Oda can't do full out fights each time.
1)Zoro vs Basil - skirmish in which Basil tests the SH's in order to free Kidd, Zoro still come out on top
2)Zoro vs Drake - Zoro wins with high difficulty and Sandai kitetsu breaks. the winning strike is Shishi sonson with Shusui
3)Brook vs Apoo - Music battle which Apoo wins, only to lose to Sanji after, Sanji's win is completely ignored and crapped on since Brook did some damage to Apoo before.
4)Robin vs Headliner closest to the king, robin wins
5)Robin and Drake who switched sides vs the king(Newest calamity) - The reason Wano chose to stay disconnected from the world and the creation of the poneglyphs revealed. King wins.
6)Zoro vs King - Zoro goes all out, having Nidai Kitetsu and winning - Hardest fight yet and he collapses after it. 3rd Road poneglyph copied by robin.
7)Franky vs Headliner
8)Sanji vs Jack - Sanji wins and finally gets some respect
9)Queen not fighting at all and stays with Kaido for the next arc
Next arc - Queen, Smoothie and Marco at a 3 way battle.
Pretty sure Brook can handle Apoo on his own and if not, won't really damage him so Sanji will take a victory over that and won't get ignored really. Same thing could be say with Luffy vs Cracker since he has Nami help, but still a victory for Luffy from what others call it.
Sanji got respect, but people need to look at his character deeply and not just fighting aspects. Oda is putting him as both character and fighter with his writing end of the day along with others.
Also don't know Zoro will face all those opponents as I get the guy is tough, but I don't see his stamina can be as good as Luffy if too many fights happen to him in the end especially we saw how he was with Hawkins being a Supernova, so one after another won't be good for him if we judge carefully.
As far as I remember, they were introduced in Shabaody while fighting each other, and even when they formed the alliance, Apoo tried provoking Kidd by beating up some of his men. I also speculate that Kidd's fight against Kaido was not as one sided as the conclusion suggests. I think at least one of the other two supernova either joined Kaido before and told him about the location of the meeting or decided to betray the team on the spot when Kaido showed up, and the more likely choice here is Apoo seeing as he was introduced as a Kaido subordinate before Hawkins. He even seems loyal enough to be trusted with rescuing Jack. If he was the first to fold to Kaido, I don't think Kidd is going to forget it at all.
The more I think about it, the more I see Law vs King happening. It would be an interesting fight.
Law's abilities are hax but if King uses fire in combat I think it will be an issue for Law.
Another thing, Law's abilities can probably inflict a lot of pain, the heart-shredding Gamma knife ability looked very painful. On King's introduction Queen described him as turture-loving-asshole but maybe he enjoys pain as well and not only inflicting it on others.
Problem with this theory is that Gamma knife is lethal unless he has hax ability to survive it.
On the other hand, giving Law so much panel time might not be what Oda wants at this point since he already gave him plenty in Dressrosa so Law might end up as support in final clash against Kaido. Until then he will probably have few minor clashes with Hawkins and maybe X-Drake.
Got to be King. Since if it truly will be Zoro vs Orochi as Oda is hyping then King is more possible especially if you look at both characters themes and namesake that connect to one another.
Now that we are further in the arc and got a clear on certain characters and the possible fights that could lead, I think it's good for us to now put on our matchups on what can happen again here. Again these are just predictions by us so we don't know if they all come true as we think and won't be predictions on every character, so let's not take things seriously over this. This is what I am thinking that could happen here:
1. Luffy vs Jack or Luffy and Kidd vs Jack (First Major Fight) - Luffy is bound to face one of the Calamities after his escape and I think Jack would be the perfect choice to test his might on while I get opinions for him for some is 'low' as not being at the level of King and Queen of the Calamities, but he still apart of the group and one of the strongest in Kaido's crew, so we shouldn't underestimate him especially his Durability, so feel like he be a good 'warm-up' fight for Luffy when soon facing Kaido in the end, but since Kidd is with him they might team up to bring him down since Luffy did needed help facing off Cracker and time to breath and think against Katakuri, so it help build not just Luffy, but Kidd as well in his side since Oda is preparing him up as a major rival for Luffy and to be Pirate King too as well as Law.
2. Sanji vs Queen (Final Major Fight - Judging from previous chapter, it obvious that Oda will make Sanji fight Queen since he is already facing his men already and that will eventuality provoke Queen to take action sooner or later against him, so that be something to look forward for and see more Sanji's progress as a fighter as whether we agree or disagree on how he been post-timeskip, it's clear he never once went full power and something is always holding him back or fights get interrupted by his end for more worthy opponent for him, so this can really help more prove his worth not just as a cook last arc did (Though he had more fights and clashes than few think), but as a fighter to the Strawhats (Especially he is Monster Trio and will be Luffy's Commanders of the crew).
Plus with that potential of showing his full power, we haven't seen all his kicking techniques, Diamble Jamble,Haki-inbued moves, or both, and Raid Suit that he can fight with it as one as a equipment or it will activate latent genes in his system that couldn't be awaken due to his mother's medicine she took. If so then he could access them without the suit even later on after activating them, so with that all in mind and possibilities, Sanji has his work for him on what he can showcase.
3. Law vs King (Second Major Fight or Final Major Fight) - I know this might raise eyebrows as why Zoro isn't in this spot to face him for it instead of Law and that because Law also need a worthy Wano's opponent as he also need to shine as Luffy's rival for the throne of Pirate King and I feel facing King would be good for him as he need a high tier opponent and this make sense with them as swordsman and him probably will go after to save Luffy and face with him after handling another serious opponent (Not at the scale of King though) or some fodder-like guys. Law need time to shine since he was beaten down by Doflamingo and haven't face any worthy stature opponents since. So him taking on King would help with that and it kinda fits both their themes as they are related to Death-like omens from them. Not many opponents I see who be suitable to push Law to the point more so King fits that.
Plus Idk why but their names also fit for a way of them hinting a fight as with a royalty especially "King", their words are "Law", so who knows as Oda could play on that XD.
4. Zoro vs Orochi (Final Major Fight) - Now you all are wondering why I put Zoro here instead with King, well that because it's seemingly obvious the hype on Orochi and swordsman is very crucial point for Zoro to test as he is trying to be "The World's Greatest Swordsman" after all. Knowing Zoro especially overhearing it (From where he is in the lost world of his as he wandering around), he want to challenge Orochi and if it's true that Orochi is legit as few saying he could be a 'joke' like Holdem's appearance or not that strong and just hype alone or both, then means Zoro will have a tough fight on his hands for once and need a win on something like this.
While some want to say Zoro has better ways of having 'victories' than other Strawhats, it's mostly because his opponents were weaker compare to others. Like Hody (No Drug Form), Monet, and Pica (Semi-challenging, but feel more hide and seek than a full on confrontative fight). Each time he face more serious and caliber opponents, he gets hit hard which are Fujitora and Hawkins who easily handle him without trying and while he never face Doflamingo, he never cut the Birdcage he set up and that is kinda embarrassing of Zoro not wanting to cut it as his first instinct instead of pushing it. Point being is, I want him to get more serious and challenging fight. If Orochi's swordplay is as good as they hype up, he be a perfect opponent for him.
Plus I find it all that if people for some/majority worship or see Kaido and his group as 'heroes', why no mention of King's swordplay compare to Orochi's as he is a Calamity unless Orochi while probably same lvl of the Calamities is a better swordsman perhaps? That probably means he doesn't use the sword as much as Orochi in fighting style and if that's the case kinda don't want it be Pica's case where he gives up and using more Zoan moves in a fighter style and not much blade work. We all know Zoro need a serious sword opponent and Orochi is our best bet. If that's the case, then he got his fight as I do not see him handling another major fight after it as he wouldn't be 100% conditions, so him taking on King who could be equal or stronger than Katakuri who gave Luffy trouble and try to harm Kaido isn't on my mind as we have to see this through Oda's mindset and just because it's about 'swordsman' and 'blades', doubt Zoro would conquer them all after a major fight he is in. Looking at it realistically and balance.
5. Luffy vs Kaido or Luffy, Kidd, and Law vs Kaido - Think I mention this before in my first post of this topic and that I envision that these 3 would work together on taking down Kaido as it be a good point of how they become since pre-timeskip in Sabody and be quite iconic fight to work together and of course Luffy probably gain a new form, Awakening, or Haki Increasion from the fight and gain the final blow out of them. Though also fine if it becomes one on one with Luffy and Kaido as Luffy probably want to prove he can handle himself as to show his worth on being a "Yonko" and Pirate King to show he can't always rely on others to help him out in fights, so who knows how it could take.
This are my predictions on things of what could happen and again don't take it serious as everything liable to change especially as how the manga could go on so that goes with all our posts. Let's respect each other posts and keep things civil so nothing gets out of control.
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---
Any matchups you all have in mind you want to discuss here or comment to mine or both?
I see Hawkins fighting Franky for some reason voodoo/magic vs technology/science.
So
Zoro vs Orochi
Luffy vs XDrake
Kidd vs King
Law vs Queen
Inurashi/Ashura Douji vs Jack
Franky (+another strawhat if necessary) vs Hawkins
Brooke vs infiltrated VA
Sanji vs Headliners
Usopp vs batman headliner
Robin and Nami vs Shogunate forces
Samurai vs Headliners
I see Hawkins fighting Franky for some reason voodoo/magic vs technology/science.
So
Zoro vs Orochi
Luffy vs XDrake
Kidd vs King
Law vs Queen
Inurashi/Ashura Douji vs Jack
Franky (+another strawhat if necessary) vs Hawkins
Brooke vs infiltrated VA
Sanji vs Headliners
Usopp vs batman headliner
Robin and Nami vs Shogunate forces
Samurai vs Headliners
Sanji vs Queen
Luffy vs Jack
Kidd vs Apoo
Law vs King
Zou Rulers and Ashura Douji vs Jack
Franky vs Higher-Ups at Factories
Brook and Usopp vs Headliners
Robin and Nami vs Shogun's higher-ups
Zoro and Okiku vs Orochi (Zoro needs the help after what Hawkins did to him)
Samurai vs Yonko and Shogun's crew and soliders.
Luffy, Kidd, and Law vs Kaido.
Law vs King is kinda destined as it fits in both their themes and names. Feel like it be what Oda would do for that.
Sanji vs Queen
Luffy vs Jack
Kidd vs Apoo
Law vs King
Zou Rulers and Ashura Douji vs Jack
Franky vs Higher-Ups at Factories
Brook and Usopp vs Headliners
Robin and Nami vs Shogun's higher-ups
Zoro and Okiku vs Orochi (Zoro needs the help after what Hawkins did to him)
Samurai vs Yonko and Shogun's crew and soliders.
Luffy, Kidd, and Law vs Kaido.
Law vs King is kinda destined as it fits in both their themes and names. Feel like it be what Oda would do for that.
result of the fight :
Sanji vs Queen (sanji lost , another L)
Luffy vs Jack (luffy improved himself in CoA aspect and won)
Kidd vs Apoo (kidd won and improved himself)
Law vs King (law wins extreme-difficulty)
Zou Rulers and Ashura Douji vs Jack (ally team wins)
Franky vs Higher-Ups at Factories (franky wins)
Brook and Usopp vs Headliners (shp wins)
Robin and Nami vs Shogun's higher-ups (shp girls win)
Zoro and Okiku vs Orochi (Zoro okiku stomps , another W for zoro)
Samurai vs Yonko and Shogun's crew and soliders (samurai wins)
Luffy, Kidd, and Law vs Kaido (luffy team wins through extreme-difficulty)
