Geneiryodan Vs Meruem

[Phantron]

They only take risk if there is money involved. It seems to me it's pretty clear Kuroro is asking who would win if they are going to fight to the death just for the sake of fighting to the death, and I think when Zeno says, "I can't say", that really just means "Not going to take the risk if there is no money involved". Of course he doesn't mind fighting him to the death if there is motive. After all, that's why he took the job in the first place. Zeno and Silva accepted wiping out the entire Spiders, not just Kuroro, and I doubt this is because they believe they're stronger than the entire Spiders combined, so clearly they're willing to go pretty far for money. But as far as personal motivations go, they clearly have no desire to take any chances without being paid.

I brought this up because most people tend to think Kuroro is comparable to Zeno just because Zeno said he can't say who would win in a battle to the death. I'm saying that Zeno will pretty much say that to just about anyone of reasonable ability because he's not the guy who gets into a battle of death without being paid, or cornered. When Zeno was being confronted by the cheetah, he also said he really doesn't want to kill anyone not related to work. Does anyone really believe the cheetah poses a threat to Zeno? But even there he's not willing to get into a fight.

You're right that you're not supposed to be able to know what abilities your enemies have, but most of the fights in the recent arc involve people who are Hunters. It's pretty clear that Hunters, as a group of people, prepare to fight for the sake of fighting, and they don't really care about their safety. Zeno and Silva are not Hunters. They are assassins and all they want to do is to live while doing their jobs. Note that Zeno didn't stick around to fight any of the Royals let alone Meryem. Clearly that's a job you can't possibly pay him enough to do.

 

[BurnSchulz]

Only natural that noone would fight to the death when it isnt even worthy.

And the only one prepared to fight for the sake of fighting was netero, all the other hunters had at least a very important mission to accomplish. Gon and Killuah for personal reasons.
And in the end netero had the mission to kill the king at any cost.

 

[Phantron]

A few people brought up the Royals vs Spiders. Again you'd have to define the situation. First, the Spiders would have to be viewed as a threat, otherwise Pitou or Yupi might decide to just toy with them and actually end up losing because they wasted too much time to let one of the member fulfill some really powerful attacks that have a tough condition to fulfill. Also, the Royal Guards cannot be currently patrolling a fixed area as ordered by Meryem, because the Royals are bound by these orders and that'd put them at a huge, possibly fatal, disadvantage.

If all the Royals particpiate at the same time, Pitou appears to be most capable in figuring out who is the deadliest enemy via pure instinct. After all, he's the only one who realized that Gon is the only person who possessed the potential to defeat Meryem. Therefore Pitou would almost certainly attack Kuroro first. It's hard to imagine Kuroro having better physical ability compared to Kite, so he'd be at least maimed in the first blow and the rest of the Spiders cannot fight calmly if their leader is hurt. Only Franklin and Kuroro have shown the ability to unite the Spiders in the face of adversity, so any damage (and possibly death) to him you'd probably see the Spiders revert to 1 on 1 or just charge head on, and they'd easily be defeated by the Royals at this point.

Now if it's just one Royal, I think here's how it'd play out...

Versus Pitou - Pitou seems to be the most capable in pinpointing threats amongst Royals, so he should be able to figure out the kill order would be Kuroro -> Franklin -> Support -> Others. Given that he is clearly much, much faster than any Spider and he can heal himself, even if he somehow took damage, there's nothing stopping him from simply retreating to heal himself back up and then continue fighting. He can also control a ton of puppets to confuse/separate the Spiders. Given his unique mix of abilities, I don't think it'd even be possible for the Spiders to inflict any permanent damage on him. I think this will just turn into a steamroll after Pitou took out Kuroro and Franklin, as the Spiders have shown to be surprisingly fragmented without the presence of their leader.

Versus Pufu - If they can fight Pufu in an enclosed space, then the Spiders will definitely win. However none of the members in the Spiders have an ability similar to that of Morel's, so we'll assume Pufu has a large open area to work with. Since none of the Spiders can fly, the real Pufu can hide safely in midair. While some of the Spiders have anti-air attacks, the attacks Spiders possess do not seem to cover enough of an area to ensure they can hit the real Pufu. They might get lucky, but we're talking about hitting one of thousands of mini Pufus and just getting lucky that they happen to hit the real one. I guess they can save one of their big attacks and try to hit a cluster of Pufus, but I doubt Pufu will just stand there while a major attack is coming. He'll either get out of the way ahead of time, or he'll be forced to gather all his clones and to defend (even though he's by far the weakest physically of Royals, I doubt any Spider have an attack that can kill him outright while he's at full strength).

Now, Pufu's appears to be the only Royal incapble of one-hit kills (if he could've killed Morel in one hit he wouldn't need to just grab his weapon), so this fight might go on for pretty long. Pufu's clones are imprevious to physical attack (they just break apart and reform), but perhaps a weapon (Nobunaga, Feitan) or a special ability can hurt them (Feitan seems to have a couple of elemental attacks). The most likely scenario would be the Spiders destroyed enough clones to force Pufu to retreat and probably losing some of their weaker members. The Spiders may be able to use one of their more powerful member as bait to get the real Pufu to attack and then try to kill him while sacrificing that guy, though I don't think Pufu will expose his real self at danger with so many enemies around.

Versus Yupi - Whoever attacks Yupi head on is definitely dead, and I think even with Kuroro leading, some of the Spiders will still charge to their doom. Yupi is still most likely faster than any Spider member (Killua used Meleron's ability to escape, so he has to be faster than Killua), but not by a significant margin. Yupi is clearly easily confused by tactics so the Spiders should be able to keep their important members protected (Kuroro for the most part). Again physical attacks is probably not going to do anything to Yupi, since he is clearly the Royal with the highest physical attributes. However he cannot heal himself, so weapons and elemental attacks can do lasting damage to him. He's also the only Royal that'd be particularly vulnerable to Shizuku's method of attack (Pitou can outrange/heal, Pufu's real body is clearly well protected), though I don't see how the Spiders can protect Shizuku when Yupi charges toward her after seeing what she's attempting to do. Perhaps some combination of Kuroro's 'teleport ally' ability plus Shizuku can wear him down. The Spiders can definitely do signifcant damage to Yupi, but it's not clear if they can do enough to bring him down.

 

[BurnSchulz]

You said:
" It's pretty clear that Hunters, as a group of people, prepare to fight for the sake of fighting, and they don't really care about their safety."

I said:
"All the other hunters had at least a very important mission to accomplish. Gon and Killuah for personal reasons."

Hunters have to do missions they got from the committee you know?
And then you bring the Spiders?

First: The Spiders arent Hunters!
And secondly: The also had their reasons to fight, it was their homeland wich was taken by the ants wich went out of NGL after the Queen died. And they fight to save their homeland.

Its true that some people (Hunter or not) enjoy fighting enemies. (Netero enjoyed it really having an enemy stronger than himself thats for sure). But youre wrong that some people there fight just for the sake of fighting.
Everyone has their own reasons.

 

[Host Samurai]

We should make a subsection for this kind of thread. It would definetly belong to the Battledome thread in HxH case; Celestial Tower. I'm afraid to say it but the discussions here are already done! There is no point in repeating the same arguments over and over again. To summarize the thread, the Ryodan don't stand a chance, not even in the slightest against Meruem, he would murder them in any constellation. And grow even further due to the gained experiences.

 

[Uriel]

Well, I'm always up to tournaments. We could organize one for the time being after the anime starts as a way to celebrate it. What do you think?

 

[Host Samurai]

Yeah, that's a good idea, you can count me in.

 

[Netero]

A tournament would be an awesome! idea.

 

[BurnSchulz]

What kind of tournament?

 

[Host Samurai]

What kind of tournament?

Kinda like a Battledome, where all characters of the manga participate against each other.

 

[BurnSchulz]

And we have to write about each fight and the outcome?

 

[Uriel]

And we have to write about each fight and the outcome?

Yes. Actually, it's voting it and arguing who would win. Until we arrive to the ultimate character. :O

 

[BurnSchulz]

Wich is Son Goku?

I slightly remember that we had something like that in the past. I believe it was at the beginning of this section...

But unfortunately this thread seemed to be forgotten ^^


i just saw that there was more than one thread for that tournament:

Rules: http://mangahelpers.com/forum/showthread.php/64561-HxH-Tournament-Rules-Thread
Discussion: http://mangahelpers.com/forum/showthread.php/64585-HxH-Tournament-Discussion-Thread
And
Tournaments Fights: http://mangahelpers.com/forum/showthread.php/64925-HxH-Tournament-Fights-Thread


Interesting to see though.

 

[Phantron]

Goku isn't even the strongest character in his universe. Vegetto is by definition stronger than him.

Without getting into cases where two universe's rules conflict with each other, at the very minimum the ultimate character would need to possess a skillset comparable to that of Phoenix Ikki from Saint Seiya (powerups from death, unlimited resurrection). He'd defeat Goku very easily too, though it may take a very long time (he estimated he might need 10 million resurrections to defeat Shaka, who probably isn't stronger than Goku), but it'll eventually happen.

 

[IamJacky]

I'm a little late to join this topic but whatever. Ever since the battle between Netero and Meryem had taken place, I was fully convinced of Meryem's power. I was very surprised that there were speculations towards the possible result between Meryem and the Ryodans (or any other hunter, or teams of hunters). It was amusing to see how people continue to brag about how Meryem "isn't perfect" "Nen battle is not always about pure strength", and that someone or some group of hunters might all of a sudden pop up and somehow defeat Meryem.

I'm glad to see the result of the poles in favor of Meryem, albeit there're still people who despite lack of proof, continue to believe blindly that Ryodans will win, or "have a chance" to win. I think the Ryodans have absolutely no chance against Meryem, and yes you can add Hisoka and Uvogin in the menu, like there is going to be any difference.

First of all, in terms of power and defense, who in the Ryodan can inflict damage at Meryem? Let's take a look at the single most devastating damage that Netero can possibly inflict at Meryem, and see what happened? You get Meryem saying "That was a wonderful attack." and Netero depleted with all of his Nen.

Then speed. Who in Ryodan is faster than Meryem? Before his reborn, Meryem was able to break down and eventually dodging Netero's Kanon lightening-speed strikes and managed to take one leg then one arm of Netero. Granted, Meryem wasn't faster than the punches in the physical sense, but through learning and adaptation he was able to predict and evade further damages and inflict fatal wounds at Netero. Note that he could have ended Netero right then and there, but he wanted Netero to surrender and tell him his name.

After the reborn, Meryem was basically able to suddenly show up at Knuckle and Meleron, knock both of them unconscious without giving Meleron a chance to even activate his ability. Yes I know Meleron was scared and maybe his reaction time slowed down a bit, but who in Ryodan wouldn't have slowed down "a bit" in the presence of Meryem?

So you have the power and speed, now who in Ryodan is capable of dodging Meryem's attack AND surviving it? The only person is Chrollo, who has the teleport ability in which he can move others around, but the scenario remains consistent with the Netero's fight. It's only going to take some time before Meryem figures out a counter strategy.

And the most dissatisfying argument coming from people is how "Nen battle is not determined by aura alone." - yes, in most cases for human Nen users it is definitely true, but Meryem just so happened to be the extreme case and not fit in the realm of normal Nen battle. Even the Royal Guards were convinced that Nen battle CAN be determined by aura alone.

So Chrollo can have tens of thousands of Nen tricks in his book, but none will prevail provided that Meryem will kill every single one of the Ryodans way before anything takes effect. Phinks can swing all he wants and pray that he ain't gonna get hit. Uvogin's punch was nice, but at most it's mediocre compared to Netero's Zero.

In conclusion, no one in Ryodan can scratch Meryem; No one in Ryodan can out run Meryem; no one in Ryodan can endure one single punch from Meryem (or if he prefers, firing the cannon fireball thing which literally wiped off a mini-mountain), and the possibility for some kind of Nen ability that results in Meryem's defeat is pretty much zero.

Meryem 1.0 would suffice, Meryem 2.0? People still have doubts? Really?

 

[Phantron]

Meryem 2.0's speed is faster than thought. He defeated Meleoron before he had time to think "I need to use my ability" so it'd be impossible to react to his attack except for Killua (his ability eliminates the 'thinking' part of reaction). It's actually very similar to Netero's strategy where he hits you before you can use any ability. In this case, Meryem can defeat anyone before they can even think about fighting back.

Also Meryem is pretty much the most intelligent being in the world, so his strategy are superior than any collection of human beings to begin with on top of his overwhelming physical advantage.

The only weakness Meryem has is that he has a high sense of honor so he didn't anticipate an attack like Rose. That said, even if you're going to use dirty tricks, it doesn't seem like anything less than a Rose can kill him.

 

[hellrocker]

Phinks will blow him of, everybody goes as a diversion, and since meruem dont know everyones ability that will give phinks time to spin his arm for 1 million times so when it connects it will surely blow meruem to kingdom come! hahaha

 

[shionoro]

There are certainly ways to defeat meruem.
We have seen one already.

Is it that hard to believe there are ppl who can inflict poison by nen with aid of meleoron who has some gas tank on his back?

We could also easily kill the king with allukas ability and kill her off after or leave her isolated.


As for the genei ryodan, i don't see a chance, though.
Mb chrollo has some handy poison ability, but as long as the king can read minds it wont help him

 

[Host Samurai]

There are certainly ways to defeat meruem.
We have seen one already.

Is it that hard to believe there are ppl who can inflict poison by nen with aid of meleoron who has some gas tank on his back?

We could also easily kill the king with allukas ability and kill her off after or leave her isolated.


As for the genei ryodan, i don't see a chance, though.
Mb chrollo has some handy poison ability, but as long as the king can read minds it wont help him

I pretty much doubt it that any poison could kill Meruem. In the fight between the Zoldycks and Kuroro the latter used a poisoned knife to kill Silva which had no effect. I think that this scenario would also apply for Meruem due to him being the epitome of the Chimera Ants.

 

[Tame]

I pretty much doubt it that any poison could kill Meruem.

Apart from the one that did kill him.