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Fantasy GMG Jellal VS Future Rogue

GMG Jellal VS Future Rogue


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XXEliteXXAceXX

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Jellal's faster than Laxus. Do you seriously think that Future Rogue's faster than Laxus? Future Rogue's best tanking feats was with LFD Natsu. GMG LFD Natsu is small town level at best. Not superior to ToH DF Natsu. Who cares about MP and knowledge when Jellal has a city buster and something that forced Jura to use his best defensive spell? Future Rogue has nothing on that level and he's not more versatile than Jellal since Jellal has Darkness Magic, Heavenly Body Magic and he has mastered four elements (Abyss Break). Blitzing Racer and Cobra was barely Jellal's best speed feat. He was too fast for Jura to react, the same Jura who blitzed Orga and kept up with Laxus.
I think you're trying to spin the truth here. We have no proof whether Future Rogue can outclass Laxus in speed but do we have any reason not to believe so? Somebody like Mystogan can dodge from Laxus attacks and such so Future Rogue can do the same whether it is speed or intangibility... You're not scaling the attacks right and you fail to understand the idea of concentration. When there is less of something, it tends to have larger concentration than large r samples. Same thing here. The size of the magic attack can be less but beams can be concentrated with high magical energy which is seen in the Etherion Blast. How is Tower of Heaven DF Natsu stronger than GMG LFD Natsu? Natsu unlocked his Second Origin before GMG even started. Therefore, he should well be stronger than he was years ago.

He wasn't toying with Jellal. He might have been surprised the first time, but the second time, Jura had no excuses of "not being serious". Jellal is faster than both Laxus and Jura, and we have in-panel proof of that.
Jura was able to hit Jellal during mid-flight when he used Meteor/Grand Chariot... We don't know if Jura was toying with Jellal and I don't think he did either but know that Jura was standing in one spot with Jellal on the offense. So, although it looked like Jura was overwhelmed, he might not have been.

He didn't get his ass kicked. @Chaos explained this rather well above. He took a couple of DF Natsu's attacks and casted Abyss Break afterwards (his strongest spell). He took the attacks head on and kept fighting. This is proof of durability no matter how you see it :cookiestare
No, it wasn't explained well. Just look at his condition after the fight. You're comparing the events incorrectly. Natsu was pretty much on the verge of death. Whereas, Future Rogue was barely scratched until the end. Natsu knew he couldn't kill Future Rogue so he had no other choice but to destroy the Eclipse Gate which would make him disappear from present time. Jellal, on the other hand, was utterly defeated and had to be resurrected by Oración Seis.

Sema actually has PE which we can use to get its potency. Mt Fuji takes longer to charge and there's actually no evidence that it's as strong as Sema.

He doesn't, and I've proved why.
Fairy Tail is not based on physics or someone like Jura should have owned Oración Seis due to the nature of his magic but remember he lost to them. Someone like Gray would be one-shotted but it didn't happen. Laxus beat Jura. Can Lightning really defeat Earth in real life? No. I can list many other instances but my post would be too long. Mt. Fuji didn't take longer to charge than Sema and because we don't know how much defense it really provides, it would be pointless to discuss it.
 

Axel Stone

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-DF Natsu pretty much owned Jellal in their altercation. Jellal was even knocked out temporarily, and he barely managed to endure a few attacks from DF Natsu. He was getting ragdolled in an even more brutal fashion than Jose did to Erza.

-Where's the inpanel proof of Laxus being slower than Jellal? Speed-wise, Laxus's short term blitz travel faster than Jellal's meteor does on the duration of velocity.

-Look at the characterizations. Jura had to take his coat off and had a serious expression against the time he fought with Laxus
Jura's fight with Jellal had him resorted to not taking off his coat and smiling the whole time.


That pretty much tells you Jura was serious in one occasion, and non-serious the other one.
Jellal on the other hand had every reason to be serious in order to clear his debt to FT, and he even resorted to using his strongest spell in case of desperation.
 

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Did some say Laxus is slower than Jellal after watching their battle against Jura? I doubt that. I hope this can be a consideration. Laxus clearly used his lightning body and targetted Jura directly, that's why Laxus got hit by Jura. Meanwhile, Jellal blitzed him circularly and targetted his side or back.

Don't you remember Laxus skillfully dodged Jura's boulders that appeared from ground without getting hit? That's right after Laxus casted Heavenward Halberd and Jura used Callus. Meanwhile, Jellal got hit by one of Jura's rocks when he drew Grand Chariot patterns.
 

Brandish μ

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Jura's rocks and his reactions are fast. He made a wall quick enough to create an obstacle for Jellal (and got hit by Jellal mainly because of the obstruction to vision), and then hit Jellal at range. Laxus was able to evade an array of Jura's rocks but these weren't the same as the ones Jura scattered against Jellal. I think Jura handled Laxus' speed better, but then again he's fighting a little more seriously v Laxus. In a way because Jura handled their speed it's not really the best basis for comparison. Jura is not as fast as the two, but he can react to them and fight them is what I am saying.

But from other meteor feats I say it's faster. He looked ridiculously fast against Natsu. I don't know if Laxus used LB v Natsu though.
 

Coné

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I think you're trying to spin the truth here. We have no proof whether Future Rogue can outclass Laxus in speed but do we have any reason not to believe so? Somebody like Mystogan can dodge from Laxus attacks and such so Future Rogue can do the same whether it is speed or intangibility...
You're not scaling the attacks right and you fail to understand the idea of concentration. When there is less of something, it tends to have larger concentration than large r samples. Same thing here. The size of the magic attack can be less but beams can be concentrated with high magical energy which is seen in the Etherion Blast. How is Tower of Heaven DF Natsu stronger than GMG LFD Natsu? Natsu unlocked his Second Origin before GMG even started. Therefore, he should well be stronger than he was years ago.
Mystogan could keep up with pre-timeskip Laxus before he used Lightning Body. LB Laxus was faster than Hades, who handled casually Erza, Wendy, Natsu, Lucy and Gray. And this was pre-timeskip. Or is Future Rogue even faster than Hades who has far better combat speed than Base Natsu?
Naw, I don't have to judge the concentration of the attacks simply because the best we can get out of Future Rogue's attacks is being tanked by LFD Natsu while Jellal can clearly output higher energy levels in his attacks. Simply put, Future Rogue's attacks can't take down Jellal (since Jellal's durability is higher than LFD Natsu's) and those attacks would affect a small area since they're more concentrated. And Jellal has shown attacks that have enough potency to handle Future Rogue regardless of the concentration.
We're comparing different modes. If GMG Natsu had an Etherion-induced Dragon Force, I could say he was stronger than ToH DF Natsu. However, this is LFD Natsu and ToH DF Natsu has better feats than that version of Natsu.

Jura was able to hit Jellal during mid-flight when he used Meteor/Grand Chariot... We don't know if Jura was toying with Jellal and I don't think he did either but know that Jura was standing in one spot with Jellal on the offense. So, although it looked like Jura was overwhelmed, he might not have been.
Jura was also standing in one spot against Laxus, and it was clear that he wasn't toying with him. That was Jura's spell, not Jura (who couldn't react when Jellal passed by him), if you know what I mean (spell speed =/= user's combat speed). Also, Jellal was casting a spell, so that would be considered as off-guard.

No, it wasn't explained well. Just look at his condition after the fight. You're comparing the events incorrectly. Natsu was pretty much on the verge of death. Whereas, Future Rogue was barely scratched until the end. Natsu knew he couldn't kill Future Rogue so he had no other choice but to destroy the Eclipse Gate which would make him disappear from present time. Jellal, on the other hand, was utterly defeated and had to be resurrected by Oración Seis.
What matters is that LFD Natsu was fighting on par with Future Rogue. And I've proved why ToH DF Natsu is stronger than LFD Natsu. Jellal tanked two of DF Natsu's attacks (tanking or not, it accounts for durability) after fighting Erza and Base Natsu. Either way, Future Rogue won't have the durability to tank spells like Sema.


Fairy Tail is not based on physics or someone like Jura should have owned Oración Seis due to the nature of his magic but remember he lost to them. Someone like Gray would be one-shotted but it didn't happen. Laxus beat Jura. Can Lightning really defeat Earth in real life? No. I can list many other instances but my post would be too long. Mt. Fuji didn't take longer to charge than Sema and because we don't know how much defense it really provides, it would be pointless to discuss it.
We can say it's based on physics until it's shown othewise.
Jura stomped Brain. What does "the nature of his magic" even mean?
Why would Gray be one-shotted? He has clear durability feats, so I don't get your point.
The fight was Jura vs Laxus, not Earth vs Lightning. It was mainly a CQC battle, there was no elements battle.
I don't care, what matters is that Sema was portrayed to have overwhelmed Jura's durability if no counter spell was casted.
-DF Natsu pretty much owned Jellal in their altercation. Jellal was even knocked out temporarily, and he barely managed to endure a few attacks from DF Natsu. He was getting ragdolled in an even more brutal fashion than Jose did to Erza.
Jellal took two attacks and kept fighting right afterwards. That accounts for durability and that's what matters.

-Where's the inpanel proof of Laxus being slower than Jellal? Speed-wise, Laxus's short term blitz travel faster than Jellal's meteor does on the duration of velocity.
What? Jellal passed by Jura before he could react whereas Jura kept up with Laxus. Meaning Jellal > Laxus in speed.

-Look at the characterizations. Jura had to take his coat off and had a serious expression against the time he fought with Laxus
Jura's fight with Jellal had him resorted to not taking off his coat and smiling the whole time.
So Jura has slower reaction speed when he's not bloodlusted? No, nothing actually indicates so. Jura showed he was serious when Jellal started going around him and casting Grand Chariot.

That pretty much tells you Jura was serious in one occasion, and non-serious the other one.
Jellal on the other hand had every reason to be serious in order to clear his debt to FT, and he even resorted to using his strongest spell in case of desperation.
No, there was no clear indication that one version of Jura was much stronger or faster than the other. In fact, Jura's best feats came from the battle against Jellal.
Did some say Laxus is slower than Jellal after watching their battle against Jura? I doubt that. I hope this can be a consideration. Laxus clearly used his lightning body and targetted Jura directly, that's why Laxus got hit by Jura. Meanwhile, Jellal blitzed him circularly and targetted his side or back.

Don't you remember Laxus skillfully dodged Jura's boulders that appeared from ground without getting hit? That's right after Laxus casted Heavenward Halberd and Jura used Callus. Meanwhile, Jellal got hit by one of Jura's rocks when he drew Grand Chariot patterns.
No statements are needed when we have in-panel proof.
But Jura had to react to Laxus to hit him, something he didn't do against Jellal.
Jellal was caught off-guard since he was drawing Grand Chariot patterns whereas Laxus was fighting head-on against Jura.
 

Brandish μ

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But Jura had to react to Laxus to hit him, something he didn't do against Jellal.
Jellal was caught off-guard since he was drawing Grand Chariot patterns whereas Laxus was fighting head-on against Jura.
Just on this point where Jellal tags Jura... Jura puts up a wall with Meteor coming at him. But Jellal evades the wall and tags Jura. In that moment Jura's vision is impaired by the wall he created. So the time Jura has to react is now very small - when he sees Jellal (if he does) evade the wall he has like a split second to react. So to me there is no shame in him getting tagged here. The feat for Jellal is the agility he has in Meteor (he displayed this against Natsu too) to be able to change flight path while travelling at high speed.

If you compare this to Laxus v Jura the whole fight is Jura in the one spot with Laxus coming to him. Just trying to point out here that Jura not reacting is NOT a purely because Meteor is fast, the wall he made to protect himself actually gave Jellal a chance to blitz. We know for a fact that Jura can react to Meteor speed because he did put up that wall. I still think Jura handled Laxus' speed better, so Meteor > LB. And yes Jellal gets a pass for getting hit while casting GC.
 

Kay3795

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Future Rogue of course! That guy was a pain to deal with - too cunning. It took Natsu plot & the legendary Atlas flames just to fight that guy.
We didn't get to even see most of Future Rogue's power. In this deathmatch, he uses Dragon Force & process to curbstomp GMG Jellal
 

Shasha23

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Future Rogue of course! That guy was a pain to deal with - too cunning. It took Natsu plot & the legendary Atlas flames just to fight that guy.
We didn't get to even see most of Future Rogue's power. In this deathmatch, he uses Dragon Force & process to curbstomp GMG Jellal
People just don't get it bro, Natsu didn't eve land 1 hit on him and Rouge didn't even use shadow drive or dragon force, he was just toying around with Natsu, plot needed a flame dragon to power up Natsu and to beat him, don't see anyone who could beat Rogue 1 on 1 in the whole city at that time
 

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Well, natsu managed to defeat rogue but it is true that during the fight rogue did not use his dual elements nor the presumably significantly more powerful dragon force. In turn natsu won but he had eaten flames from atlasflame which evidence suggests added a fair bit of power to his own. Overall I am inclined towards rogue because of the potential dragon force. Dragon force at least triples your own raw power which in this situation would be particularly terrifying. Gerard does not have transformations that we know of. In that regard base rogue can afford to have a solid third of gerard's power and still be even with him using dragon force. Any more than that only makes the victory more comfortable...
 

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Jura's rocks and his reactions are fast. He made a wall quick enough to create an obstacle for Jellal (and got hit by Jellal mainly because of the obstruction to vision), and then hit Jellal at range. Laxus was able to evade an array of Jura's rocks but these weren't the same as the ones Jura scattered against Jellal. I think Jura handled Laxus' speed better, but then again he's fighting a little more seriously v Laxus. In a way because Jura handled their speed it's not really the best basis for comparison. Jura is not as fast as the two, but he can react to them and fight them is what I am saying.

But from other meteor feats I say it's faster. He looked ridiculously fast against Natsu. I don't know if Laxus used LB v Natsu though.
Laxus was nerfed in that whole battle. Laxus did not use LB vs Natsu. He only used CQC moves, and a few attacks. No secret arts and his FL failed because of plot.

Jellal took two attacks and kept fighting right afterwards. That accounts for durability and that's what matters.


What? Jellal passed by Jura before he could react whereas Jura kept up with Laxus. Meaning Jellal > Laxus in speed.


So Jura has slower reaction speed when he's not bloodlusted? No, nothing actually indicates so. Jura showed he was serious when Jellal started going around him and casting Grand Chariot.


No, there was no clear indication that one version of Jura was much stronger or faster than the other. In fact, Jura's best feats came from the battle against Jellal.

No statements are needed when we have in-panel proof.
But Jura had to react to Laxus to hit him, something he didn't do against Jellal.
Jellal was caught off-guard since he was drawing Grand Chariot patterns whereas Laxus was fighting head-on against Jura.
Jellal barely endured two attacks, and was grimacing with pain on the ground, DF's onslaught was so powerful that it knocked out Jellal for a short while. That is not tanking in any capacity that you want to infer to it as.

In the case of temperament, you can not use these examples. Jura did not have the quick reflexes that he used against Laxus because of his casual attitude to defend against Jellal where he was testing Jellal's power more than anything.
Laxus was fast enough to blitz Hades and Tempesta.
Jura was shown to become a bit serious when he found out Mystogan is Jellal.
Before that he was not that serious and was casual.
anyways the level of seriousness Jura showed against Laxus isn't the same as he acted against Jellal. That's the difference.

That's merely an excuse. Jura is not stupid enough to let Jellal make Grand chariot patterns, and stand there with a thumb up his butt. Jellal getting caught off-guard is a testament to Jura's speed and Jellal's own fault.

Jura's best feats were against Laxus. He gave Laxus a high diff fight.
 

XXEliteXXAceXX

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Mystogan could keep up with pre-timeskip Laxus before he used Lightning Body. LB Laxus was faster than Hades, who handled casually Erza, Wendy, Natsu, Lucy and Gray. And this was pre-timeskip. Or is Future Rogue even faster than Hades who has far better combat speed than Base Natsu?
Mystogan technically dodged Laxus' Lightning Body with his Mist Body. Although it seemed like he got hit, you can clearly see he was unscathed when he reappeared.


Future Rogue is faster than Hades in agility speed and combat speed. Hades is more known for his power than speed. Whether you believe it or not, Future Rogue can match Jellal in speed, if not faster. He was able to blitz Natsu and Axiomus was right when he said that Future Rogue was in his light form. Because Future Rogue killed Sting and acquired dual elements, he is able to combine both light and shadow.


Also, Ultear who uses Arc of Time Magic, was not able to land a single hit on Future Rogue even after he was caught off guard by her sudden appearance. This is an impressive feat from Future Rogue that shows he is really fast agility/speed wise. Also, note the attack Ultear used. It was meant to manipulate time to hit Future Rogue, yet he still dodged it.


Naw, I don't have to judge the concentration of the attacks simply because the best we can get out of Future Rogue's attacks is being tanked by LFD Natsu while Jellal can clearly output higher energy levels in his attacks. Simply put, Future Rogue's attacks can't take down Jellal (since Jellal's durability is higher than LFD Natsu's) and those attacks would affect a small area since they're more concentrated. And Jellal has shown attacks that have enough potency to handle Future Rogue regardless of the concentration.
We're comparing different modes. If GMG Natsu had an Etherion-induced Dragon Force, I could say he was stronger than ToH DF Natsu. However, this is LFD Natsu and ToH DF Natsu has better feats than that version of Natsu.
Sure, LFD Natsu tanked Future Rogue's attacks... But almost at the cost of his life. Jellal doesn't really have higher durability than Natsu. Although, I can agree that he might have more attack/magical power. Even so, not enough to match Future Rogue.

I guess we just can't agree... But I will just state one last time that GMG LFD Natsu is stronger than Tower of Heaven DF Natsu. Even Tenrou LFD Natsu was able to deal some damage to Hades meanwhile, Tower of Heaven DF Natsu barely killed Jellal.

Jura was also standing in one spot against Laxus, and it was clear that he wasn't toying with him. That was Jura's spell, not Jura (who couldn't react when Jellal passed by him), if you know what I mean (spell speed =/= user's combat speed). Also, Jellal was casting a spell, so that would be considered as off-guard.
Are we talking about combat speed or agility speed here? I know the speed of a spell is not the same as the user's speed. But in this fight, everything is fair game right? I thought the the main focus was on the overall outcome of the battle between Jellal and Future Rogue. So can't we say that Future Rogue's attack can stop Jellal's Meteor/Grand Chariot? After all, Future Rogue's attacks are faster than Jura's rocks and Natsu couldn't dodge it either.


What matters is that LFD Natsu was fighting on par with Future Rogue. And I've proved why ToH DF Natsu is stronger than LFD Natsu. Jellal tanked two of DF Natsu's attacks (tanking or not, it accounts for durability) after fighting Erza and Base Natsu. Either way, Future Rogue won't have the durability to tank spells like Sema.
Not even close. That battle was one-sided. Natsu was almost dead from fighting Future Rogue who wasn't even scratched. This was Lightning Flame Dragon Natsu and White Shadow Dragon Mode Rogue by the way. Just look at the clear difference.


We can say it's based on physics until it's shown othewise.
Jura stomped Brain. What does "the nature of his magic" even mean?
Why would Gray be one-shotted? He has clear durability feats, so I don't get your point.
The fight was Jura vs Laxus, not Earth vs Lightning. It was mainly a CQC battle, there was no elements battle.
I don't care, what matters is that Sema was portrayed to have overwhelmed Jura's durability if no counter spell was casted.
Actually, it is the other way around. We can't say Fairy Tail is based on physics until proven otherwise. When I said the "nature of his magic", I was referring to your logic that since Jellal's meteor had so much PE then shouldn't Jura's rock have a lot more PE? That means if anybody is caught underneath, they would be instantly killed. Also, I said Gray would be one-shotted because since Ice is known for being easily malleable, shouldn't he be useless against almost every character in the series? But this is not the case because this is not physics. It's Fairy Tail Manga. Portrayal does not really count if we don't know the truth so we would just have to negate it.



To Everyone Who Says Jellal Wins: After all this, tell me, how can GMG Jellal win against someone like this? Unless there is evidence that GMG Jellal is at least 2 or 3 times stronger than GMG LFD Natsu.
 

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Rouge slaughters, Jellal couldn't even hurt Jura without his absolute strongest spell he goes down before whipping out Cerrma.
 
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