Fantasy Gray vs Mirajane

[AmitDS]

I think people forgot that Sherria only won because of 3rd origin, which gives a mage the maximum magic power that they can obtain from their future.

Unless Gray has already peak his maximum abilities then i would say no.

Regarding his fight vs End, where it was easily blocked by Erza by her barehand then it was not impressive at all. And the fight with Invel was clearly about POF a dying Juvia which i dont think he has access whenever he wants to.

And base on hype alone by Gray and Co. , Mira would surely win. And BSS perfomance against Skullion, which Des Gray failed to do.

I also don't think that Invel is noted for his hand to hand skills and END and Gray brawling and rampaging with nukes in between before Erza with bare hands blocks them, doesn't scream hand to hand expert beyond Mirajane to me. I know her main offensive style is CQC and was shown when she fought Azuma arcs ago. Jacob is known for hand to hand but Mirajane fought him without any takeovers for the most part and he closed his eyes, though he was still doing well with sensing her. If Mira and Jacob had a proper brawl it'd be clear that Mira > Invel and Gray in CQC.

 

[kaiiruuu]

do u think that sitri's flames can melt gray's DeS ice? or do u think mira has an ice-based take-over in her arsenal?

 

[AmitDS]

do u think that sitri's flames can melt gray's DeS ice? or do u think mira has an ice-based take-over in her arsenal?

I think Sitri can melt his normal ice for sure but DeS ice probably not. I also believe it is possible that she does have ice power. Ignoring her having other elemental magic in her BSS and Sitri forms, I think it is possible that Mira has Ice DeS magic she could have picked up from plutogrim in the aftermath of Gray and Silver's use of their powers (it could have been in the atmosphere or something) or she can take it over if she fights Gray and he demonizes while using DeS magic.

 

[Jko]

I think people forgot that Sherria only won because of 3rd origin, which gives a mage the maximum magic power that they can obtain from their future.

Unless Gray has already peak his maximum abilities then i would say no.

Regarding his fight vs End, where it was easily blocked by Erza by her barehand then it was not impressive at all. And the fight with Invel was clearly about POF a dying Juvia which i dont think he has access whenever he wants to.

And base on hype alone by Gray and Co. , Mira would surely win. And BSS perfomance against Skullion, which Des Gray failed to do.

People also forget Sherria only won bcs Wendy buffed her via enchantment on top of TO...

 

[Brandish μ]

Well Cheria needed the slayer advantage and 3rd Origin via Ultear and in this case it's heavily implied that the slayer advantage Gray has over demons either doesn't work on Mira or works but not effective enough to allow him to beat her because of it. When he said she has no weaknesses, she'd be a pain to fight, he can't freeze her (it would be like Skullion) and he can take her now that she's injured, all of that leads us to believe that he isn't getting an edge or enough of an edge with DeS magic to beat Mirajane simply because he has DeS magic.

And as for power levels, he thinks she can beat Skullion when he couldn't and Cana, Lucy and Juvia agree while Mirajane managed to draw with Skullion and gain his acknowledgement in her weakest form so I'd say it's apparent that Mirajane is overall stronger than Gray and Gajeel at this point.

Perhaps later we'd see how her Macro would fare against him or how her takeover would affect his demonisation when using his DeS mark.

Sherria needed TO because she was weak and needed to bridge the gap.

It the slayer advantage doesn't work on Mirajane it would be contradictory to how slayer magic has been used in the series. Gray was able to put down Mard Geer, someone whom at the time was far stronger than Gray, with DeS magic. Sherria was able to defeat a "God Soul Takeover" with her GSM. Erza with a slayer enchantment could slash Irene, one of the strongest mages, out of dragon form with one attack. It's fairly ironic that Gray talked about Mira having no weaknesses when he's the one who can potentially oneshot her the easiest.

I agree that the character statements favour Mirajane. Gray clearly has no answer to Skullion at this point, his ice cannot freeze him and his Ice Make has too much form against Ash Make. That is a shortfall against Skullion's Ash magic, as I see it, which doesn't pertain to PL's or Mirajane.

I think people forgot that Sherria only won because of 3rd origin, which gives a mage the maximum magic power that they can obtain from their future.

Unless Gray has already peak his maximum abilities then i would say no.

Regarding his fight vs End, where it was easily blocked by Erza by her barehand then it was not impressive at all. And the fight with Invel was clearly about POF a dying Juvia which i dont think he has access whenever he wants to.

And base on hype alone by Gray and Co. , Mira would surely win. And BSS perfomance against Skullion, which Des Gray failed to do.

Yes, and that was Sherria's limits. Sherria's potential is below Gray's and Mira's, imo. But the slayer advantage definitely helped her get the win.

You can argue Erza blocked both punches with PoF too. Erza's strong too. In the same arc, Mira's fight with Jacob (blind) was much less impressive than what Gray did against Invel and END, imo.

 

[IamtherealMirajane]

Sherria needed TO because she was weak and needed to bridge the gap.

It the slayer advantage doesn't work on Mirajane it would be contradictory to how slayer magic has been used in the series. Gray was able to put down Mard Geer, someone whom at the time was far stronger than Gray, with DeS magic. Sherria was able to defeat a "God Soul Takeover" with her GSM. Erza with a slayer enchantment could slash Irene, one of the strongest mages, out of dragon form with one attack. It's fairly ironic that Gray talked about Mira having no weaknesses when he's the one who can potentially oneshot her the easiest.

I agree that the character statements favour Mirajane. Gray clearly has no answer to Skullion at this point, his ice cannot freeze him and his Ice Make has too much form against Ash Make. That is a shortfall against Skullion's Ash magic, as I see it, which doesn't pertain to PL's or Mirajane.



Yes, and that was Sherria's limits. Sherria's potential is below Gray's and Mira's, imo. But the slayer advantage definitely helped her get the win.

You can argue Erza blocked both punches with PoF too. Erza's strong too. In the same arc, Mira's fight with Jacob (blind) was much less impressive than what Gray did against Invel and END, imo.

At least Mira fought Jacob w/o POF and she only use her weakest form as finisher unlike Gray when he fought End and Invel POF was greatly involved.

And im not even sure if Gray really has a slayer advantage against Mira,

because first DES is a demon's magic againt a demon , Silver and Bloodman have it, which a demon take over mage has a superiority to.

2nd, base on statement by Gray that Mira has no weaknesess that someone can exploite. Unless he also forgot that DES is Mira's weakness which supports my claim.

3rd, it was not only Gray but also Lucy, why she never mentioned Gray when she fought Mira? that if at least she has Gray then the probability winning is higher just like how Erza mentioned Gray and Natsu that by adding either of them they will surely win against Laxus. And until to this chapter she was not sure on how they would be able to knockout Mira when they have already Gray in their team. or How Slaying advantage was not able to bring up in table by defeating Mira. Its either they forgot or there is no slayer advantage at all. I'm leaning on the latter due to my first reason above.

4th, God slayer so far is different than demon slayer and dragon slayer, because they do not take the attribute of a god's magic in order to slay a god,

5th, it was Mard who said that human demon is different than Etherios demon.

 

[grey matter]

Not even going to debate relative powers between Gray and Mira.

Gray wins regardless because of slayer advantage (which the manga conveniently ignores ). Slayer advantage guarantees the victory unless the opponent is quite a few tiers ahead of the user (like Mard for eg), and I hope nobody is gonna say that Mira is a tier above Gray

Take over magic is affected by Slayer magic, as shown by Sherria against Dimaria

 

[Livinbreathineatin]

Not even going to debate relative powers between Gray and Mira.

Gray wins regardless because of slayer advantage (which the manga conveniently ignores ). Slayer advantage guarantees the victory unless the opponent is quite a few tiers ahead of the user (like Mard for eg), and I hope nobody is gonna say that Mira is a tier above Gray

Take over magic is affected by Slayer magic, as shown by Sherria against Dimaria

Slayer advantage literally has never guaranteed victory. We’ve seen dragons survive DS magic. We’ve seen that Sherria needed to be powered up to her strongest form to defeat Dimaria even though she had slayer advantage and we’ll most definitely see Mira tango with DeS Gray even though she’ll be at a disadvantage.

 

[IamtherealMirajane]

Not even going to debate relative powers between Gray and Mira.

Gray wins regardless because of slayer advantage (which the manga conveniently ignores ). Slayer advantage guarantees the victory unless the opponent is quite a few tiers ahead of the user (like Mard for eg), and I hope nobody is gonna say that Mira is a tier above Gray

Take over magic is affected by Slayer magic, as shown by Sherria against Dimaria

Skullion acknowledge Mira's strength in her weakest form and he realize he cant defeat her the reason why he retreated, unlike when he easily defeated Gray even with the use of DeS that tells you something about their power difference and their strength. Even a grade school student can easily identify which one is stronger than the two.

Actually the manga is not ignoring anything it just readers failed to notice what im trying to point out thatThe DeS is a demon's magic against a demon ( By Silver and Bloodman having it ) and demon takeover mage has superiority and can takeover it , yes Tartarus Mira struggle it at first but she was able to taker over it even with the fraction of her MP. And 100 years arc version is clearly superior and she have 2 years time to master it.

unlike the god Slayer we have yet to seen if they have god's attributes or if it is a god's power to slay a God. DeS can demonize, Dragon Slayer can Dragonize...But God Slayer so far cant Goddize lol.

Not to mention the hype that Mira's is getting from the Guild ( including Gray), then she's clearly superior to him.

And Gray admitted that he can only challenge Mira while she still injured.

Lastly, if we consider how immense MP is. Then clearly Mira is one of the best in the guild if not the best. Where she easily evaporated the entire sea ( you can see it in the anime for better appreciation) just by using the Alegria and it was not even a heat base or flame take over.

 

[grey matter]

Skullion acknowledge Mira's strength in her weakest form and he realize he cant defeat her the reason why he retreated, unlike when he easily defeated Gray even with the use of DeS that tells you something about their power difference and their strength. Even a grade school student can easily identify which one is stronger than the two.

Not to mention the hype that Mira's is getting from the Guild ( including Gray), then she's clearly superior to him.

And Gray admitted that he can only challenge Mira while she still injured.

Lastly, if we consider how immense MP is. Then clearly Mira is one of the best in the guild if not the best. Where she easily evaporated the entire sea ( you can see it in the anime for better appreciation) just by using the Alegria and it was not even a heat base or flame take over.

He retreated no because he can't defeat her, but because the master asked to or something.

Like I said, I'm not here to debate relative power between Gray and Mira. Unless you believe that Mira is tiers above Gray, slayer advantage is giving him the Win. It doesn't matter if the series ignores it conveniently, as far as well now the slayer magic would work on her because of what we saw against Dimaria

Edit: Also Gray just wanted to ensure the W, he doesn't want to take any risks.......but it's fine if you believe that Mira > Gray as well

 

[kaiiruuu]

Pls how many fights have we seen where a slayer has actually defeated a being they have advantage against with? I mean the dragons during the GMG arc no sold the DS' attacks. Chelia only won because one: she had a big potential, noted even by FT members (GMG) and she was at her peak + she had some assist from Wendy. Rereading ch. 476, Dimaria was still able to exchange heavy blows with Chelia despite being disadvantaged.

Also in ch. 408, Gray has landed numerous hits against Mard Geer with Ice DeS, yet Mard Geer was still able to keep up (he was being tag-teamed by Natsu fyi). Mard Geer was also drained from his fight with CSK. Yet he was still able to go Tartaros form and Memento Mori the f* out of Gray.

And what's stopping Mira from dodging Gray's attacks. Girlie kept up with Racer's speed despite actually affecting her reaction time.

 

[IamtherealMirajane]

He retreated no because he can't defeat her, but because the master asked to or something.

Like I said, I'm not here to debate relative power between Gray and Mira. Unless you believe that Mira is tiers above Gray, slayer advantage is giving him the Win. It doesn't matter if the series ignores it conveniently, as far as well now the slayer magic would work on her because of what we saw against Dimaria

Edit: Also Gray just wanted to ensure the W, he doesn't want to take any risks.......but it's fine if you believe that Mira > Gray as well

Yes manga is clear that Mira is tier above Gray.

The last time i check she was still considered as a fairy tail S class mage. The portrayal is still there. Erza easily blocked DeS Gray and END even w/o any armor to protect her. And there is laxus.

The manga is still empashizing the one we consired elite or S CLASS mages.

Yes, the diabolos guild master ordered it. But he clearly acknowledge Mira's strength which he didnt do with Gray. And you can clearly see the bruises on Skullion side and he even mentioned that some of them were defeated already. Meaning he knows it would be a matter of time before their team was clear out and thats why BK Slayers are needed.

 

[grey matter]

Yes manga is clear that Mira is tier above Gray.

The last time i check she was still considered as a fairy tail S class mage. The portrayal is still there. Erza easily blocked DeS Gray and END even w/o any armor to protect her. And there is laxus.

The manga is still empashizing the one we consired elite or S CLASS mages.

Yes, the diabolos guild master ordered it. But he clearly acknowledge Mira's strength which he didnt do with Gray. And you can clearly see the bruises on Skullion side and he even mentioned that some of them were defeated already. Meaning he knows it would be a matter of time before their team was clear out and thats why BK Slayers are needed.

Skullion and Madmole vs Mira and Elfman was clearly a draw........for now. Both sides recognized that they couldn't defeat the other.
They were called to back off because Kiria and Ghost guy got defeated.

You actually believe Mira is a tier above Gray? The guy who fought END that fodderized Dimaria?
Ok, Gray doesn't have a feat yet. Just wait, Gray hasn't got a fight in the spinoff yet. When he gets his feats, he's going to be proven to be on Mira's tier, if not greater.

 

[kaiiruuu]

Also can DeS affect Mira the way God Slayer Magic affected DiMaria? I mean correct me if I'm wrong but didn't DiMaria's take over worked differently? She was Chronos' vessel and whenever she used and spoke through God Soul, she addresses herself as one entity with Chronos, essentially making her an actual god.

However with Mira, she took over only the demons' abilities and she's not biologically (for the lack of word) a demon herself. I'm genuinely curious if DeS will even work with pseudo-demons like her.

 

[AmitDS]

Sherria needed TO because she was weak and needed to bridge the gap.

It the slayer advantage doesn't work on Mirajane it would be contradictory to how slayer magic has been used in the series. Gray was able to put down Mard Geer, someone whom at the time was far stronger than Gray, with DeS magic. Sherria was able to defeat a "God Soul Takeover" with her GSM. Erza with a slayer enchantment could slash Irene, one of the strongest mages, out of dragon form with one attack. It's fairly ironic that Gray talked about Mira having no weaknesses when he's the one who can potentially oneshot her the easiest.

I agree that the character statements favour Mirajane. Gray clearly has no answer to Skullion at this point, his ice cannot freeze him and his Ice Make has too much form against Ash Make. That is a shortfall against Skullion's Ash magic, as I see it, which doesn't pertain to PL's or Mirajane.



Yes, and that was Sherria's limits. Sherria's potential is below Gray's and Mira's, imo. But the slayer advantage definitely helped her get the win.

You can argue Erza blocked both punches with PoF too. Erza's strong too. In the same arc, Mira's fight with Jacob (blind) was much less impressive than what Gray did against Invel and END, imo.

But Gray himself said that he could not freeze her so that alone brings into question the extent to which he has an advantage over her, if he has one at all.
In this arc alone Gray has said that:
-Fighting her would be tough
-Freezing her would be like freezing Skullion (it won't work though we all know he's a DeS and she uses demon takeovers)
-He can take Mira now that she's injured.

All of this in addition to him saying she has no weaknesses when he himself is the devil slayer makes it likely, right now, that Gray's DeS, isn't as effective on Mirajane, for whatever reason, as people on here presume. It is precisely because Gray is a DeS with full intel on his abilities and even Mirajane's that people can speculate about his DeS power being less effective.

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 2, 2020, Original Post Date: Jan 2, 2020 ---

Also can DeS affect Mira the way God Slayer Magic affected DiMaria? I mean correct me if I'm wrong but didn't DiMaria's take over worked differently? She was Chronos' vessel and whenever she used and spoke through God Soul, she addresses herself as one entity with Chronos, essentially making her an actual god.

However with Mira, she took over only the demons' abilities and she's not biologically (for the lack of word) a demon herself. I'm genuinely curious if DeS will even work with pseudo-demons like her.

It remains to be seen the extent to which his DeS power would affect Mirajane.

 

[Vis]

Gray still wins. Gray never acknowledged or admitted that Mirajane is superior to him.

Spoiler

This just displays Gray acknowledging the fact he can take Mirajane, Elfman, Skullion and Madmole altogether. Not that he can't take Mirajane alone.

Spoiler

This is meant to be more of a comic relief, but this also doesn't mean he can't take Mirajane at full health.

Spoiler

Erza fighting off Laxus after he wrecked Kyria kinda shows that the stronger members of Team Natsu weren't at their best against the Diabolos members. Especially if you consider the fact that Elfman was able to take on Madmole, lol. This either means they were strengthened by the White Wizard, the Diabolos members were holding back or that the Diabolos members were just not as strong as they were initially presented to be. Take your pick, I guess.

 

[Kurumi Tokisaki]

the Diabolos members were holding back or that the Diabolos members were just not as strong as they were initially presented to be.

I think you are right about this part or we'll have to believe Elfman offense is as strong as an FDK from Natsu.

 

[Axiomus]

Gray got burned too hard in the past few chapters. I'm going to have to go with Mirajane here until he redeems himself by beating Skullion in a later arc. Or Mirajane herself in the upcoming fight.

Still not a oneshot.

4th, God slayer so far is different than demon slayer and dragon slayer, because they do not take the attribute of a god's magic in order to slay a god,

5th, it was Mard who said that human demon is different than Etherios demon.

You don't need devil slaying magic to slay demons either, and Mirajane's best takeovers are etherious.

I think you are right about this part or we'll have to believe Elfman offense is as strong as an FDK from Natsu.

We don't actually know who did the damage to Madmole. The attack would've only had only been stronger than demolition fist. FDK Purgatory is still stronger. Even then it's a bit iffy, because attacks like demolition fist get stronger with emotions.

 

[Livinbreathineatin]

Gray still wins. Gray never acknowledged or admitted that Mirajane is superior to him.

Spoiler

This just displays Gray acknowledging the fact he can take Mirajane, Elfman, Skullion and Madmole altogether. Not that he can't take Mirajane alone.

Spoiler

This is meant to be more of a comic relief, but this also doesn't mean he can't take Mirajane at full health.

Spoiler

Erza fighting off Laxus after he wrecked Kyria kinda shows that the stronger members of Team Natsu weren't at their best against the Diabolos members. Especially if you consider the fact that Elfman was able to take on Madmole, lol. This either means they were strengthened by the White Wizard, the Diabolos members were holding back or that the Diabolos members were just not as strong as they were initially presented to be. Take your pick, I guess.

Gray still wins. Gray never acknowledged or admitted that Mirajane is superior to him.

Spoiler

This just displays Gray acknowledging the fact he can take Mirajane, Elfman, Skullion and Madmole altogether. Not that he can't take Mirajane alone.

Spoiler

This is meant to be more of a comic relief, but this also doesn't mean he can't take Mirajane at full health.

Spoiler

Erza fighting off Laxus after he wrecked Kyria kinda shows that the stronger members of Team Natsu weren't at their best against the Diabolos members. Especially if you consider the fact that Elfman was able to take on Madmole, lol. This either means they were strengthened by the White Wizard, the Diabolos members were holding back or that the Diabolos members were just not as strong as they were initially presented to be. Take your pick, I guess.

I mean Erza was clearly superior to Kyria when they fought a 2nd time and they didn’t battle for long. Madmole only fucked around with Natsu because he threw Natsu on a ship. Gray didn’t prove his worth against Skullion, though. Still hasn’t got any payback.

The WW can’t make anyone stronger than they already are. if Laxus was enhanced, he wouldn’t have fallen after he defeated Erza. Actually, speaking of Laxus, him stomping Kyria like that shows that maybe the DE’s aren’t all that. Or maybe but that’s just Kyria.

 

[Demon Hunter]

I won't vote for now but saying that my boy Gray can take out Skullion, Mirajane, Elfman and Madmole altogether is a huge BS.

I expected more from you @Vis

but remember this guys

Spoiler

no one is gonna low diff anyone when it comes to in-guild fights, especially when it comes to top tiers.

besides, Gray has a huge advantage. even if he wins with high diff, he would still be weaker.