Politics Hamas-Israel conflict

Shinsatsu

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Yeah but those rockets are still injuring and killing people. Israel was patient (even though they knew it wouldnt stop) but finally enough was enough and I dont blame them for firing back. I just kinda wish they that when they enter Gaza, theyll go directly for the Hamas gov't instead of trying to fighting their troops for blocks on end to beat them into submission.
You seem glad ...

I think that if u look at the situation carefully, and think as a human being ... you'll find out that what's happening in Gaza right now isn't something that can be justified that easily.

The truth is, and regardless of what Israeli politicians say, Hamas attacked only because Israel didnt respect the last agreement. So Israel is the one starting this shit.

What's happening in Gaza right now (bombing hospitals and schools and targeting innocent people) is a huge crime against humanity in general ...
if you agree with what Israel is doing then you are a stupid F*** who shares some responsibility of what's happening to innocent ppl there!
 
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thsv

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You seem glad ...

I think that if u look at the situation carefully, and think as a human being ... you'll find out that what's happening in Gaza right now isn't something that can be justified that easily.

The truth is, and regardless of what Israeli politicians say, Hamas attacked only because Israel didnt respect the last agreement. So Israel is the one starting this shit.

What's happening in Gaza right now (bombing hospitals and schools and targeting innocent people) is a huge crime against humanity in general ...
if you agree with what Israel is doing then you are a stupid F*** who shares some responsibility of what's happening to innocent ppl there!
Er.... I think you'll find Hamas regularly broke the ceasefire during its last month and were first to say that they would not being honouring it after it expired.

And ask yourself this why haven't the Arab League been able to get together in support of Hamas? Because they don't want to get dragged into a fight they know Hamas has willfully provoked. Don't get me wrong here, I wish Israel would back off, but as I stated earlier as long as Hamas are capable of firing rockets into Israel the hardliners who are insisting on going in into Gaza guns blazing will continue to get support. If I can see that I don't know why these so-called politicians who claim to have the best interests of the Gaza people at heart can't.
 

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Also you we should keep cool heads.
 

Akainu

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If anyone was interested in the people they would - well that's going to sound bad - but they would simply stop violence (Hamas and so on) and play on time.
Palestinians are much more fertile and would soon be in a majority position ... that makes negotiations much easier - well that is if you have a realisitc position and don't want 'everything' .
 

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Most palestinians don't want everything. Maybe Hamas.
 

Akasunanosasori

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palestinians wants peace and their homeland back and Hamas is trying to make that happen.


Er.... I think you'll find Hamas regularly broke the ceasefire during its last month and were first to say that they would not being honouring it after it expired.

And ask yourself this why haven't the Arab League been able to get together in support of Hamas? Because they don't want to get dragged into a fight they know Hamas has willfully provoked. Don't get me wrong here, I wish Israel would back off, but as I stated earlier as long as Hamas are capable of firing rockets into Israel the hardliners who are insisting on going in into Gaza guns blazing will continue to get support. If I can see that I don't know why these so-called politicians who claim to have the best interests of the Gaza people at heart can't.
So u just want Hamas to sit back and relax ??
 
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Akainu

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palestinians wants peace and their homeland back and Hamas is trying to make that happen.
and to achieve peace you fire rockets and arm yourself? well to speak from "our own" experience as europeans its the wrong direction if they really would want peace with Israel. What they really have in mind as you hinted at and what is clearly visible in their emblem is this whole territory - an islamic one - without Israel/jews that is - and I just don't see how that should work out. surely they should get more land for there are like million people in the Gaza-strip alone not even counting all the refugees in the neighbouring countries, but ... well ... not the whole thing <.<
 

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Peace with Israel ?? a fake contry who took their homeland n killed more than 10000 palestinen u think this is a contry who deserve peace ???
 

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Hamas from their point of view want to fight back with the same force imposed by Israel.
 

Akainu

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  1. please cool down.
    I know this is a very emotional topic - especially since you seem to be from a muslim country - but that all the more is not a reason to loose your head.
  2. yes I think they should have peace. constant retaliation does not work neither does vengance. I know it's hard to imagine as long as you live in war, but - to take this example again - Germany had a war with France back in 1871, then there was WW1 and each of these times they trampled on each other. resulting from this an even bigger war named WW2. But there were some wise people around who didn't go like "where's my gun" but "let's try peace" and it f***** worked :o
  3. could you explain "fake country" as far as I can see it is very real - well real enough for Iran to make statements like they have 70.000 suicide bombers ready...
 

Akasunanosasori

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fake contry = Israel wasn't that big from the start it was a small place full of jewish ppl n they started to group in palestine n take the land little by little from the palestinian.



the green part is palestine.
 
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Shinsatsu

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It's palestine damnit ... it belongs to palestinians ... israeli people are just intruders dont u understand that?

And plz dont mention arab leaders ... if they go against Israel policy that means that they are going against the United states and that is not a good thing to do if u have brains.

Plz do some research and find out what was the damage caused by Hamas rockets and go look for pictures of what happened to Gaza's ppl after this rain of fire and steel. plz guys open your eyes... Stop pretending to be politicians for one second.

I'll give u an example : someone broke his neighbour's window with a rock, so the other one got mad and set the first's house on fire killing all his family.


and to achieve peace you fire rockets and arm yourself?
Israel has the right to arm itself and palestine no?
someone taking over your country and you stay still and watch? They even tried to put up with them and work something out ... but in the end ... it's all useless ... Israel wants ALL the land and wants ALL Palestinians to disappear ...

...
 
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Shin said:
I'll give u an example : someone broke his neighbour's window with a rock, so the other one got mad and set the first's house on fire killing all his family.
That's a good analogy. But it's good to look at the history of the land as long as it may be. :tem

IMO both have the right to share the land equally.
 

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@ TDA
it's kinda true but that doesn't give them the right to kill inoccent ppl and children n use forbidden bobmbes...
 

Akainu

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as we are giving examples right now - and honestly I had to think about using this one very long, but - isn't it the same with western sahara? I don't want to hurt any feelings here seeing all those morrocon flags but wasn't it the same with the green march? occupying a territory that didn't belong to them with sending settlers and then waging a war there?

dunno what your personal oppinion is about that, but saying one was rightous and the other not has a bad taste.
However historical arguments take us literally nowhere - like you could see in the link Tenryuken provided the Jews once owned that land so weren't it the Arabs who occupied it somewhen? see why these kind of argument fails?


Israel has the right to arm itself and palestine no?
someone taking over your country and you stay still and watch? They even tried to put up with them and work something out ... but in the end ... it's all useless ... Israel wants ALL the land and wants ALL Palestinians to disappear ...

...
certainly not. I didn't intend to say Palestinians should disarm they should all do, inclusive Iran. that's the next 'problem': as long as there are threads from the outside Israel would never give up the weaponry.

However I never heard anyone really claim Israel wants to take it all. I mean except the ultra-orthodox settlers no government official says so unlike Hamas :oh
Though on that matter I remember a little satire game called 'Raid Gaza' which quotes Olmert to have said something along those lines...

@ TDA
it's kinda true but that doesn't give them the right to kill inoccent ppl and children n use forbidden bobmbes...
neither does any of that justify rockets fired at Israeli civilians does it?
 
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Akasunanosasori

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The Green March was a strategic mass demonstration in November 1975, coordinated by the Moroccan government, to force Spain to hand over the disputed, autonomous semi-metropolitan Spanish Province of Sahara to Morocco cuz it's a part of our contry.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green_March
and it's moroccan
neither does any of that justify rockets fired at Israeli civilians does it?
ur talking bout those rockets like they killed a million of ppl they bearly touched few ppl and look at the masterpiece israel did why aren't u talking bout it ????
 
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Tenryuken

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You should know that lots of the Jews you're talking about are Arabs and Palestinians living in Israel.
During the conflict with Hezbollah they were called "martyrs" or "traitors" just because they choosed to live in peace.
You really think that if Hamas had the fire power they wouldn't kill millions of Jews?
 

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well why am I not talking about what Israel is doing? that's a good question.
but I warn you that could lead to even longer posts analysing the situation and all :amuse

First of all let's start where I heard some of you see the current war started:
* Israel bombed a tunnel dug by Hamas to bring terrorists into Israel and/or abduct soldiers. this was not one of the tunnels at the egypt border as far as I know which seem important to some due to food supply but alas for radicals too getting all kinds of weapons...

This tunnel however was like mentioned above not for any civilian use. was it right to bomb it? yes. was that breaking the truce? imo not. and even if that was because they used bombs or whatever reason I would question that digging an attack tunnel was not breaking the truce.

Well however the truce ended anyway around that time so there they flew again, the rockets that only killed some people and let the rest live in fear. fear is very underrated imo, but thats another story and we shall leave the rockets aside for now.

Then Israel gave Hamas an ultimatum to end the attacks ... 48 hours long there was time to stop everything we see now that was admittedly planned during the truce.
However Israel started bombing after 24 hours, 24 hours early.
That may have had strategic reasons or whatever but I'm almost sure that this is against intl. law.

The bombing itself:
At first no objections against that. The problem is that civil casualties can't be avoided. It's bad that it happens and they kept it to a surprising small amount at first.
The more civilians they hit though - and it's only civilians that are the problem here, not the like 20.000 Hamas fighters and not one child for example - the more I'm getting concerned about that.

That the humanitarian situation is so bad is largely due to the blockade of Gaza, which in turn is a direct result of Hamas coming to power 2 (?) years ago.
Now I know that Hamas also does all this kind of welfare stuff but they are also considered a terrorist organization here, so the isolation is justified from the israeli point of view and like some people see democracy it would be too - the majority of people elected Hamas. However there is no question that things needed for life being held off the gazans is plain wrong. Problematic part is where it could be used as both: fuel for example either there is need for ambulances or it is used to run cars that transport rockets...
This bad situation in the hospitals and so on is part of the reason that there are so many dead people now as I see it.

The invasion and division of the Gazastrip may be what they think they need, and as this has just started I can't really say much about it except that the grenades are bound to hit civilians even those you can call innocent from any other POV not hiding weapons not being married to some small fry independence fighter or whatever. This is bad.
They should have stopped it before the invasion, but they wouldn't have reached their goals like that and stopping it now would be even worse for them.
I feel bad for the people of Gaza both for having Hamas there and for being shelled therefore.

that's it for now, long enough I think
 

thsv

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palestinians wants peace and their homeland back and Hamas is trying to make that happen.



So u just want Hamas to sit back and relax ??


You've failed to see the point of my post. The people who keep voting for the politicians who favour this line of action do so because Hamas is perceived as a threat. If Hamas offers no threat such action would not find favour. Take a bit of time, switch your forum view to 40 posts per page and read back. I pointed out that this is only happening in Gaza, not on the West Bank. Because Fatah and Israel both believe they can find a political solution.

The thing is when the more moderate Arab states have tried to get Hamas into the political process Hamas have rebuffed their approaches. One Hamas representative laughed on the BBC when asked about reconciling with Fatah.

Explain to me how you would deal with someone who denies your right to exist and insists on wiping you off the face of the earth Akasunanosasori. I'd be interested to hear how you'd cope in the situation Israel find themselves in. Once again note that it is only the Gaza Strip that is under attack. The area is the source of rocket attacks on Israel. Not the West Bank. Because there are no missiles coming from there.

And thank you Akainu. I completely forgot that Morocco have been waging war against the poor, innocent, defenceless people of Western Sahara for over 30 years. Got to feel sorry for Western Sahara. Seems at one point Morocco was happy to take only part of the territory, then go for all of it when Mauritania decided it wasn't worth the hassle. Do the words pot, kettle and black hold any meaning for you?
 
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