Politics Hamas-Israel conflict

Onomatopoeia

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just turn al jazeera on n u will see everything.
http://english.aljazeera.net/focus/war_on_gaza/ everything is here.
vid contains explicit pictures .
and here u can see the numbers it's still 763 but they will update it soon .
http://english.aljazeera.net/news/middleeast/2009/01/200918173540307219.html
this is another vid "More children among Gaza dead"
http://english.aljazeera.net/news/middleeast/2009/01/200916123126787790.html
<hr noshade size="1">


hey don't compare morocco to israel plz !
Morroco is a peacefull contry not a killer, and they should fight back Hamas not inocent ppl .
---------------
this is the Fourth Geneva Convention can someone tell me that israel is respecting it plz ?
UN would have been better. Just like I don't use Fox for anything but it's not bad...

No Israel would be every bit as peaceful if it wasn't surrounded by people who say "Gaza will become a graveyard for Israel". Israel is a killer because of sitaution and it's in a situation that if replaced by any other country in the world the same would happen. Hell if America was in the same situation I'm pretty sure that the same would happen except a few dozen times worse.

Having said that don't avoid the question. The answer is Yes or No, if not why what other choice is their that hasn't already been discussed a few dozen times by leaders of the world?

Will read the Fourth Geneva Convention to see if any glaring things have been done by Israel that break it.

But I just read this from the site you gave:
"We are not saying we will stop firing rockets from the Gaza Strip to Israel - we are only talking about stopping the aggression from the Israelis against the civilian population in the Gaza Strip.

When others talk about a ceasefire, they are saying all military operations should stop.

But we are sending a message [by firing rockets]: "We will not surrender. We have to fight the Israelis and we will win this battle."
Did they not get the memo? Israel is invading because of the rockets. Does Hamas want a ceasefire or not? Don't they get that Israel will continue if they don't stop?
 
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Tenryuken

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hey don't compare morocco to israel plz !
Morroco is a peacefull contry not a killer, and they should fight back Hamas not inocent ppl .
You don't seem to understand that Hamas is using the population as shields.
Why would Israel kill innocent people?
Maybe I need to remind you that Israel is a Nuke Power Nation and if they wanted to "erase" the Palestinians like you're implying(spelling), they would've already done it.
If you think that the EU wouldn't react worst than Israel if Hamas was launching thousends of rockets to member countries of the EU then you don't know much about the world.
 

Akasunanosasori

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You don't seem to understand that Hamas is using the population as shields.
Why would Israel kill innocent people?
Maybe I need to remind you that Israel is a Nuke Power Nation and if they wanted to "erase" the Palestinians like you're implying(spelling), they would've already done it.
If you think that the EU wouldn't react worst than Israel if Hamas was launching thousends of rockets to member countries of the EU then you don't know much about the world.
1)Nuke = forbidden and if they use it iran and syria will get in war with israel n if they do so us will back israel and many other contries will get involved .
And remember iran want to erase israel and don't tell me they don't have the power to do it in a one vs one .
2) UN is just talking now they asked israel to stop but they didn't .
3) Israel is just using hamas as an excuse to attack civilian, the hamas army is not with citizen and dude israel was doing this looooong time ago since the invasion of lebanon in 1982 .
wow they attacked lebanon and and killed many ppl just cuz an assassination attempt against Israel's ambassador to the United Kingdom . indeed what a peacefull contry !!!!
 

Tenryuken

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1)Nuke = forbidden and if they use it iran and syria will get in war with israel n if they do so us will back israel and many other contries will get involved .
And remember iran want to erase israel and don't tell me they don't have the power to do it in a one vs one .
2) UN is just talking now they asked israel to stop but they didn't .
3) Israel is just using hamas as an excuse to attack civilian, the hamas army is not with citizen and dude israel was doing this looooong time ago since the invasion of lebanon in 1982 .
wow they attacked lebanon and and killed many ppl just cuz an assassination attempt against Israel's ambassador to the United Kingdom . indeed what a peacefull contry !!!!
1) Israel can use it and isn't afraid of Iran neither Syria.
Iran can't cuz it doesn't possess Nukes and is also afraid of US.
3)I hope you're not serious about this.
From your own post it says that Israel is reacting to the others.
If they were such a devilish country they would be the ones starting all the bad stuff but they only react so if Israel is so bad, in witch categogry do you put those who attacks them even trough Israel did them nothing?
What did Israel to Iran for deserving to be erase?
 

Akasunanosasori

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1) Israel can use it and isn't afraid of Iran neither Syria.
Iran can't cuz it doesn't possess Nukes and is also afraid of US.
Israel is afread US too why ?
Dude think logicaly just for once, if iran attack israel u think they will cauz as much damage as hamas ? no they will make them suffer as hell.
why the us is afraid !!!
the us will suffer economical and political losse and cuz The U.S Aircraft carriers are threatened by he Iranian Navy power.
3)I hope you're not serious about this.
From your own post it says that Israel is reacting to the others.
If they were such a devilish country they would be the ones starting all the bad stuff but they only react so if Israel is so bad, in witch categogry do you put those who attacks them even trough Israel did them nothing?
What did Israel to Iran for deserving to be erase?
reacting to an assination attempt by an invasion ?
 

Tenryuken

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The UN voted a resolution and the US didn't blocked it and guess what?
Hamas refused it!!!!:o
A resolution to help Palestinians, now tell me Israel is the one who wants the Palestinians to die.:notrust
 

Akasunanosasori

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u know what israel wanted to stop the firing ???
israel want Fath back and they want to unarm hamas.
is this a solution that hamas sould say yes to ??
 

Tenryuken

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If Hamas care about the civil Palestinians, witch of course they don't.
 

Akasunanosasori

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sorry but that's not an answer for me.
and read this :
press report said:
UN aid suspension

Meanwhile, the United Nations Works and Relief Agency (Unwra) has been forced to suspend humanitarian activities in the Strip after coming under fire from Israeli forces.

On Thursday, a contract worker was killed when a Unwra aid convoy came under Israeli fire during a three-hour armistice agreed by the Israelis in order to deliver essential supplies to Gaza residents.

Israel says it is investigating the incident.

The UN says it cannot resume aid work in the territory because it is unable to guarantee the safety of its employees – despite the daily three-hour pause in the Israeli offensive.
Link
can u tell me now how could a contrie who doesn't even respect it's own words respect The UN decision ??
 
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◆ T.D.A ◆

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Israel used white phosphorus shell

And no, just because it's against Israel doesn't mean it's propaganda. I actually wonder how many new channels in other countries will report on this. Don't bet on it is all I say, which pisses me off. You can deny it, just look at the pic and read the article.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/middle_east/article5470047.ece




Photographic evidence has emerged that proves that Israel has been using controversial white phosphorus shells during its offensive in Gaza, despite official denials by the Israel Defence Forces.

There is also evidence that the rounds have injured Palestinian civilians, causing severe burns. The use of white phosphorus against civilians is prohibited under international law.

The Times has identified stockpiles of white phosphorus (WP) shells from high-resolution images taken of Israel Defence Forces (IDF) artillery units on the Israeli-Gaza border this week. The pale blue 155mm rounds are clearly marked with the designation M825A1, an American-made WP munition. The shell is an improved version with a more limited dispersion of the phosphorus, which ignites on contact with oxygen, and is being used by the Israeli gunners to create a smoke screen on the ground.

The rounds, which explode into a shower of burning white streaks, were first identified by The Times at the weekend when they were fired over Gaza at the start of Israel's ground offensive. Artillery experts said that the Israeli troops would be in trouble if they were banned from using WP because it is the simplest way of creating smoke to protect them from enemy fire.


There were indications last night that Palestinian civilians have been injured by the bombs, which burn intensely. Hassan Khalass, a doctor at al-Shifa hospital in Gaza City, told The Times that he had been dealing with patients who he suspected had been burnt by white phosphorus. Muhammad Azayzeh, 28, an emergency medical technician in the city, said: “The burns are very unusual. They don't look like burns we have normally seen. They are third-level burns that we can't seem to control.”

Victims with embedded WP particles in their flesh have to have the affected areas flushed with water. Particles that cannot be removed with tweezers are covered with a saline-soaked dressing.

Nafez Abu Shaban, the head of the burns unit at al-Shifa hospital, said: “I am not familiar with phosphorus but many of the patients wounded in the past weeks have strange burns. They are very deep and not like burns we used to see.”

When The Times reported on Monday that the Israeli troops appeared to be firing WP shells to create a thick smoke camouflage for units advancing into Gaza, an IDF spokesman denied the use of phosphorus and said that Israel was using only the weapons that were allowed under international law.

Rows of the pale blue M825A1 WP shells were photographed on January 4 on the Israeli side of the Israel-Gaza border. Another picture showed the same munitions stacked up behind an Israeli self-propelled howitzer.

Confronted with the latest evidence, an IDF spokeswoman insisted that the M825A1 shell was not a WP type. “This is what we call a quiet shell - it is empty, it has no explosives and no white phosphorus. There is nothing inside it,” she said.

“We shoot it to mark the target before we launch a real shell. We launch two or three of the quiet shells which are empty so that the real shells will be accurate. It's not for killing people,” she said.

Asked what shell was being used to create the smokescreen effect seen so clearly on television images, she said: “We're using what other armies use and we're not using any weapons that are banned under international law.”

Neil Gibson, technical adviser to Jane's Missiles and Rockets, insisted that the M825A1 was a WP round. “The M825A1 is an improved model. The WP does not fill the shell but is impregnated into 116 felt wedges which, once dispersed [by a high-explosive charge], start to burn within four to five seconds. They then burn for five to ten minutes. The smoke screen produced is extremely effective,” he said.

The shell is not defined as an incendiary weapon by the Third Protocol to the Convention on Conventional Weapons because its principal use is to produce smoke to protect troops. However, Marc Galasco, of Human Rights Watch, said: “Recognising the significant incidental incendiary effect that white phosphorus creates, there is great concern that Israel is failing to take all feasible steps to avoid civilian loss of life and property by using WP in densely populated urban areas. This concern is amplified given the technique evidenced in media photographs of air-bursting WP projectiles at relatively low levels, seemingly to maximise its incendiary effect.”

He added, however, that Human Rights Watch had no evidence that Israel was using incendiaries as weapons.

British and American artillery units have stocks of white phosphorus munitions but they are banned as anti-personnel weapons. “These munitions are not unlawful as their purpose is to provide obscuration and not cause injury by burning,” a Ministry of Defence source said.

Mads Gilbert, a Norwegian war surgery specialist working in Gaza, told The Times that he had seen injuries believed to have resulted from Israel's use of a new “dense inert metal explosive” that caused “extreme explosions”. He said: “Those inside the perimeter of this weapon's power zone will be torn completely apart. We have seen numerous amputations that we suspect have been caused by this.”
 
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thsv

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u know what israel wanted to stop the firing ???
israel want Fath back and they want to unarm hamas.
is this a solution that hamas sould say yes to ??
So is it wrong to want Hamas to disarm?

Let me draw your attention to Northern Ireland. There had been fighting there since World war One because the Catholic minority wanted to join the Irish Republic whilst the Protestant majority wanted to stay under the English Crown. In the end it was resolved by power sharing between the two groups. But the key to this was the IRA disarming so as not to be viewed as a threat by Protestant hardliners.

Once again I'll ask (although I expect you'll ignore me again) if Hamas want a peaceful solution why do they continue to fuel the Israeli rights that they are a threat and will destroy all of Israel?
 

Tenryuken

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can u tell me now how could a contrie who doesn't even respect it's own words respect The UN decision ??
I never said that it was a good thing that innocent died.
But does Hamas also rest for 3 hours eatch day?
Cuz if they don't, I can understand the frustration of the Israeli soldiers witch during their break(for the sake of Palestina) are attacked by Hamas.
But killing innocent people will never be a good thing.

EDIT: Israel has now also refused the UN resolution.
 
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Digital_Eon

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If you want people to believe you're right and just and good, you do not bomb schools, kill children, and then blame it on the enemy. You just don't. That happens in wars in other countries too, and NATO's been criticized for when it does the same thing in Afghanistan. So what do you do when you kill innocent children? You apologize and make sure you do everything to make sure it doesn't happen again. And I don't think Israel's doing that.

Don't get me wrong; neither side is right here, and they both need to stop. But I'm definitely more angry at Israel for what they do. Hamas doesn't really have a bargaining chip besides "stop attacking". Even during ceasefires, the people of Gaza suffer. They can't leave their own country, they rely on international aid to survive, and they're still occupied by a foreign and hostile nation in the name of "security". The Palestinians aren't even second-class people there.

If Israel wants things to get better, then they have to take steps to make it that way... because most Palestinians don't want Israel wiped out; they just want to be able to lead fairly normal lives. Of course both sides have to take action, but it has to be complete... and that means Israel will have to do more. They have a lot more to do.

I'm not sure if they want this war to end, though. Not many people die from the rocket attacks, and they get overseas support by being involved in a war. It could be a matter of economics. There's also lots of pressure from right-wingers who don't want Palestine to exist for whatever reason... There are so many reasons for the way things are now, but someone's gotta stand up and do the right thing.
 

Tenryuken

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20th Jan is not far away.
 

Akasunanosasori

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So is it wrong to want Hamas to disarm?

Let me draw your attention to Northern Ireland. There had been fighting there since World war One because the Catholic minority wanted to join the Irish Republic whilst the Protestant majority wanted to stay under the English Crown. In the end it was resolved by power sharing between the two groups. But the key to this was the IRA disarming so as not to be viewed as a threat by Protestant hardliners.

Once again I'll ask (although I expect you'll ignore me again) if Hamas want a peaceful solution why do they continue to fuel the Israeli rights that they are a threat and will destroy all of Israel?
just telll me why should hamas stop firing rockets on israel since they are attacking civilians only and they didn't accept the UN immediate ceas of fire agreement!

I wanted to let u know this since ur knowledge is limited to what u want to belive .
Def of terrorist:

United Nations Security Council Resolution 1373 discusses terrorism and is a primary UN authority for terrorism because it was issued under Chapter VII UN authority.

Resolution 1566 gives a definition:

criminal acts, including against civilians, committed with the intent to cause death or serious bodily injury, or taking of hostages, with the purpose to provoke a state of terror in the general public or in a group of persons or particular persons, intimidate a population or compel a government or an international organization to do or to abstain from doing any act.


Tell me israel is not doing that .
And based on ur knowledge can u tell me how israel was founded ?
 
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Tenryuken

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By an UN resolution except that the UK refused.
UK was in charge of the territory.
 

mc404

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Israel 275 - 0 Children

Congratulation for this accomplishment. Be proud!
 

Onomatopoeia

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just telll me why should hamas stop firing rockets on israel since they are attacking civilians only and they didn't accept the UN immediate ceas of fire agreement!

I wanted to let u know this since ur knowledge is limited to what u want to belive .
Def of terrorist:

United Nations Security Council Resolution 1373 discusses terrorism and is a primary UN authority for terrorism because it was issued under Chapter VII UN authority.

Resolution 1566 gives a definition:

criminal acts, including against civilians, committed with the intent to cause death or serious bodily injury, or taking of hostages, with the purpose to provoke a state of terror in the general public or in a group of persons or particular persons, intimidate a population or compel a government or an international organization to do or to abstain from doing any act.


Tell me israel is not doing this .
And based on ur knowledge can u tell me how israek was founded ?
Answer my question already. What would Morocco do in Israel's situation?

Israel isn't doing this. If Israel was firing rockets and "terror" bombs randomly into Gaza with the intent to kill Civilians then yes they would certainly be breaking this. But the intent is to destroy Hamas and they're showing this by making sure to try their best to destroy Hamas buildings with accuracy. This can be seen in the death toll actually despite the fact that a lot of it is civilians the military/goverment members make up what? 1/20th of the population? Then if it was random attacking then the death toll % would be very different.

As it is now the death toll of civilians can be explained by the fact that Hamas hides behind it's civilians. For instance recently the Hamas Islamic University was bombed, one would immediatly point fingers at Israel at that but it's been found that their was a Military Research and Development Lab in the University.

Or another example can be taken in the fact that Hamas has moved the fighting to heavily populated neighborhoods where civilians are more likely to get caught up in the fighting and subsequently killed. But civilians being hurt is part of any war no matter how much either side tries to stop it. Thats why it's known as Collateral damage however Hamas hiding behind it's civilians takes it to a new level.

Israel wants to stop the rockets firing by destroying Hamas infastructure however that is impossible without killing civilians because Hamas hides behind civilians. They're obviously targeting the infastructure.

But yes considering what T.D.A just posted certainly they are breaking a UN resolution I have never doubted that Israel wasn't at fault to an extent. It just goes to show that theirs no such thing as Good and Bad just Gray.

Now then Hamas(unless they're full of retards) KNOW that the rocket firing stopping is the only logical thing to do to get a truce.

First of all lets look at the things we can agree on.

A. Hamas isn't winning this War(if you want to call it that)
B. As the War Continues more INNOCENT civilians will die.
C. An end to this war would stop(for the most part) the death of the Palestinians of Gaza.
D. Hamas job as the group in power in the goverment is to protect the civilians of Gaza, keep them alive, and strengthen the country.

So then a truce is going in between the two groups would be good for Hamas. The Israeli's invaded Gaza because of the rocket fire on the land. To get this truce going rocket fire would have to end because if it doesn't happen then Israel would just keep going and more Palestinians would die. So then they should logiclly stop the rocket fire because there is no plusses and when your this badly on the losing side you should concede(within reason and stopping rocket fire is plenty reasonable) so it doesn't turn out to bad.

SO WHY THE FUCK DON'T THEY?
 
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Akasunanosasori

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Most of u are fooled by fake media reports who try to change the truth like CNN...
Morocco is a peace contry and we are already dealing with something like that peacefully (polisarion) n what are we killing civilians ? no.

first of all u should know why hamas started lunching rockets on israel cuz apparently u don't have politic knowledge.

First gaza was in the israeli hands (a palestinian city) then after many and many rockets were lunched toward, n after a lot of politics negiciation israel was sick n gave palestinian gaza back (the gave every israeli citizen more than 220 000 $ i don't have the exact number and it was payed by the us to all the former citizen of gaza, israeli.
After that Israel kept her army in all the borders of gaza in sea too wich made it a virtual prison and they gave their soldiers the rights to do what they want i mean by that they can remove passports or stop some palestinian from entring gaza, hamas couldn't allow that so they started the rockets lunching wich pissed israel off and made them attack gaza n kill innocent ppl .

And dude israel is still uncapable to reach some important places cuz of the strong resistance of hamas yesturday 12 israeli soldier were killed.

Ah israel is loosing this war why ?
cuz their first objectif is to stop the rockets lunching but they are failing.

And dude israel is a terorriust contry just remember what happned with al Durra the 12 years old boy who was killed by israeli soldiers in his fathers arms in front of cameras .



The whole world is accusing israel alot of european contries are against what israel is doing and yet u are trying to make it look like an angle of peace who cares about ppls life .
 
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But what I can judge from Hamas' position is that they want it really bad - that is the growth of hatred between Palestians against Israelis at a high cost (the murdering of innocent people) just to gather more support in an evil way.
BTW, who launched the first attack? Hamas. Why they attacked in the first place? Bc of the reason mentioned above... there is nothing that Hamas can do to harm Israel, so why start an offensive that is bound to fail? And they won't stop, even though the losses are already that huge? Ok, I can just assume how retarded they are or again what I just wrote in the beginning of this post...
 
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