Hold All The Crazy Inside

[Kaiten]

Re: Real men are like wolves, with you for life or alone for it - Part 6

There are no halal or kosher laws referring to "unclean animals" that I know of. Halal explicitly forbids pork. A kosher diet forbids animals that do not have both cloven hooves and ruminate. Pigs are the only animals with cloven hooves that do not ruminate, while hares, camels, and hyrax are the only animals that ruminate but do not have cloven hooves. Other than rabbits food laws for mammals are nearly identical between halal and kosher diets.

A strict kosher diet forbids all invertebrates. I am not aware of a similar law that would forbid Muslims from eating shellfish.

 

[Dried Ambrosia]

Re: Real men are like wolves, with you for life or alone for it - Part 6

Does the Halal and Kosher "moral" law specify the manner in which the animals are slaughtered?? Or are there written rules about it? I've always had this particular impression, but I am not sure.

 

[Lawl Po Bia]

Re: Real men are like wolves, with you for life or alone for it - Part 6

poor animals

 

[Nii]

Re: Real men are like wolves, with you for life or alone for it - Part 6

I'm surprised that the quality talk hasn't stopped yet

Do you miss the spammy days of your thread gar?

 

[Nuno]

Re: Real men are like wolves, with you for life or alone for it - Part 6

Legendary song. Oh god, this takes me back

 

[Kaiten]

Re: Real men are like wolves, with you for life or alone for it - Part 6

Does the Halal and Kosher "moral" law specify the manner in which the animals are slaughtered?? Or are there written rules about it? I've always had this particular impression, but I am not sure.

Yes, both contain rules on how animals are slaughtered and prepared. I do not know what those laws are specifically, only that they exist.

---------- Post added at 05:13 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:13 PM ----------

Legendary song. Oh god, this takes me back

That song reminds me of Milly.

 

[Nuno]

Re: Real men are like wolves, with you for life or alone for it - Part 6

Please do not wrongly associate the greatness of Daler Mehndi with Milderp H. Milhouse. He's an Indian rockstar and awesome. I have fond memories of Mr. Mehndi's songs.

 

[Doraku]

Re: Real men are like wolves, with you for life or alone for it - Part 6

Yes, both contain rules on how animals are slaughtered and prepared. I do not know what those laws are specifically, only that they exist.

Nothing specific for Islam as far as I know. There are only three requirements:

1. The slaughterer has to be a Muslim
2. Saying God's name at the time of slaughter
3. The slaughter must be performed by cutting the throat of the animal.

and I'm not familiar with Kosher..

 

[Kaiten]

Re: Real men are like wolves, with you for life or alone for it - Part 6

Basically the same, if my info is right. The slaughter must be performed by a trained expert, the slaughter must be performed by cutting the throat with an unserrated knife.

 

[xi0]

Re: Real men are like wolves, with you for life or alone for it - Part 6

There are no halal or kosher laws referring to "unclean animals" that I know of. Halal explicitly forbids pork. A kosher diet forbids animals that do not have both cloven hooves and ruminate. Pigs are the only animals with cloven hooves that do not ruminate, while hares, camels, and hyrax are the only animals that ruminate but do not have cloven hooves. Other than rabbits food laws for mammals are nearly identical between halal and kosher diets.

A strict kosher diet forbids all invertebrates. I am not aware of a similar law that would forbid Muslims from eating shellfish.

There are many animals other than specifically pig that are considered Haraam. What is considered fine to eat is Halal. This is just a mix-up of terminology. I believe that the Quran only specifically mentions "swine", so it's similar to Jewish concepts but no, it is not identical in structure really. Though the reasons for most of these dietary laws are similar and undoubtedly share origins...or rather, Islamic law is likely derivative of a lot of Jewish dietary law.

I was just being lazy, assuming that thorn knew what I was talking about. I thought it was obviously about the specific animal, rather than the preparation. It doesn't matter how pig is prepared for example.

And of course there are Jewish laws about "unclean" or "impure" animals. That's exactly what the Kashrut is

Not all invertebrates are allowed, that would mean shellfish is allowed and we know that isn't the case at all. Outside of insects, which is confusing for vocabulary reasons, anything that has both fins and scales can be eaten, which naturally excludes all shellfish. <- I misread your post, but this is still true. But nvm

There are some animals that are specifically listed in the the books of Leviticus and Deuteronomy as being impure, as well as in the Talmud, so I think you're off-base here. Almost any dietary law is rooted in a public health concern, so "unclean" or "impure" is related to this. But clearly this isn't always literal. It was a different time, so who knows.

 

[Dried Ambrosia]

Re: Real men are like wolves, with you for life or alone for it - Part 6

Okay...the similarities between Kosher and Halal are astonishing when it comes to slaughtering a clean animal. But, I can't help but wonder...why cutting the throat of the animal? Is it believed to be a more humane death?

 

[Doraku]

Re: Real men are like wolves, with you for life or alone for it - Part 6

Okay...the similarities between Kosher and Halal are astonishing when it comes to slaughtering a clean animal. But, I can't help but wonder...why cutting the throat of the animal? Is it believed to be a more humane death?

I'm not really sure about it.. but cutting the neck of an animal might disconnects the blood flow into the nerve of the brain which is responsible for pain, so I can say that the reason as a "more humane" way to end animals life is correct.

 

[Charlie]

Re: Real men are like wolves, with you for life or alone for it - Part 6

Wow another serious discussion - I haven't seen one of these kinds in regards to religious rituals.
I presume the cutting of the throat was dictated by 'god' as the prefered way to prepare the animal.
It may have some heath significance.


@ Gary - Jesus man you're even familiar with the Talmud - I haven't gone that far ahead.
Gary-pieda was a real thing after all.... ^^

 

[xi0]

Re: Real men are like wolves, with you for life or alone for it - Part 6

Okay...the similarities between Kosher and Halal are astonishing when it comes to slaughtering a clean animal. But, I can't help but wonder...why cutting the throat of the animal? Is it believed to be a more humane death?

Why are they astonishing though? Just look at the geography and other similarities the faiths have.

I don't know the answer to that actually, but it seems reasonable that it's related to that. For instance, both forbid consumption of carrion or animals that aren't killed by human hands. The manner of death being a human ensures the reason for the death not being related to disease as well.

---------- Post added at 05:46 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:44 PM ----------

@ Gary - Jesus man you're even familiar with the Talmud - I haven't gone that far ahead.
Gary-pieda was a real thing after all.... ^^

I chose to study it as project for religious studies, as well as other reading I've done. I was raised Catholic, which has it's own dietary "laws"...well more suggestion in modern times and the topic interested me.

 

[Charlie]

Re: Real men are like wolves, with you for life or alone for it - Part 6

I chose to study it as project for religious studies, as well as other reading I've done. I was raised Catholic, which has it's own dietary "laws"...well more suggestion in modern times and the topic interested me.

I took an interest to this when I was younger and researched a bit - but not about the dietary aspects per-se but about the religious one. Finding god and all that shnazz.
I'd like to weigh in on the dietary discussion aspects more heavily but - its a bit out of my scope and what I remember is few in details.

I do like your points on the similarities and the regions as well as the rest of the seems logical / accurate / makes sense in accordance to that time period.

---------- Post added at 05:56 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:55 PM ----------

I'm not really sure about it.. but cutting the neck of an animal might disconnects the blood flow into the nerve of the brain which is responsible for pain, so I can say that the reason as a "more humane" way to end animals life is correct.

I think this has some truth in it but I dont remember too much.

 

[Nuno]

Re: Real men are like wolves, with you for life or alone for it - Part 6

Okay...the similarities between Kosher and Halal are astonishing when it comes to slaughtering a clean animal. But, I can't help but wonder...why cutting the throat of the animal? Is it believed to be a more humane death?

No, it's simply to drain the animal of blood. It's not a humane death at all as the animal dies from drowning in its own blood.

 

[Charlie]

Re: Real men are like wolves, with you for life or alone for it - Part 6

No, it's simply to drain the animal of blood. It's not a humane death at all as the animal dies from drowning in its own blood.

Im sure there was health aspect to this as well... but my memory is slacking like form 10 years ago.

 

[Nuno]

Re: Real men are like wolves, with you for life or alone for it - Part 6

I don't know. I can only assume they want a "clean death" in the sense that no other chemicals like from a tranquilizer are within the animal, or a bullet for that matter. Anycase it's a rather cruel death.

 

[Dried Ambrosia]

Re: Real men are like wolves, with you for life or alone for it - Part 6

Why are they astonishing though? Just look at the geography and other similarities the faiths have.

Geography could be an influential factor, but it's not the main reason. Christianity as a faith/religion started there and expanded. However, the details regarding slaughter were not taken over by Christian practitioners. Therefore, I assume that slaughtering practices, although have a ground on religious doctrine, are merely preserved though traditions. To exemplify, I'll give you the following situation: strict Judaism (Kite, correct me if I'm wrong) strictly limits travel during Sabbath. Highly religious Jews even count the number of steps they take. However, the Tanakh, which is canon, does not specify that travel should be limited. It says that a man should avoid doing unnecessary work. I can provide other examples from Islam too (traditions), but I'll stop here, for the sake of the ones reading.

3c...I agree that it's a horrific death; but; I wanted to know the background of this particular practice!

 

[Charlie]

Re: Real men are like wolves, with you for life or alone for it - Part 6

Right - so theres a religious reason for why the Christians did not take on that practice but lets stay on the dietary aspects and not venture too much out that. I dont see how this would not be passed on through tradition though??

Fore more similarites / differences : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_Islamic_and_Jewish_dietary_laws

---------- Post added at 06:54 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:37 PM ----------

Another interesting link : http://www.scotlandforanimals.org/religiousslaughter.html