Discussion How Powerful Is Enel considering everyone now?

THM Nindo

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Ah, that's what makes the relations between different fruits tricky, It's safe to assume that most (if not all) Paramecia are of lower rank than Logias, but Mythical Zoans (like Marco) might be higher up than both of them. We have little data that could prove anything further in the argument though, so it's difficult to say.
Well, in the last SBS, Oda just confirmed that it's not really true.

Marco (Zoan) = Ace (Logia)
Whitebeard (Paramecia) > Pretty much everything (Logia)
 

Dasbones

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Ah, I never read the SBS stuff... I should get on that.
 

undertoe

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I remember specifically that Akainu melted Aokiji's ice without effort In fact it evaporated completely. Their powers are equal in their destructive force, but their powers are not equal in terms of superiority.
Yes, magma CAN sublimate standing ice. HOWEVER, we cannot draw any conclusion until we see how they match up when they are both constantly feeding into the attack. I guarantee you that Akainu could lay a river of magma and Aokiji could easily freeze the entire thing if Akainu stopped feeding it with magma. I also guarantee you that Ace could also have easily evaporated the same body of ice even though his powers were at a stand-still with Aokiji's.

There is no evidence in the manga so far as to how this match-up would go, so stop trying to make it appear.
 

Fox666

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Well, Ace and Aokiji matched against each other perfectly. So I would say that Akainu would overpower Aokiji...
 

Dasbones

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There is no evidence in the manga so far as to how this match-up would go, so stop trying to make it appear.
Holy crap chill, I never say any of this is absolute fact, I'm just drawing conclusions based on evidence in the manga. What you said is true, but since we have no actual clash between Akainu's powers and Aokiji's, and all we have seen is Akainu's powers trounce Ace (who's powers were evenly matched head to head with Aokiji's ice). Its safe to assume that based on that information (along with Akainu's claim that Logias are ranked by superiority) that Aokiji would be hurt if Akainu would attack him (which, is unlikely).

Now to be clear, I am not saying my standard is absolute fact, but based on what I've read/seen, this is the most likely outcome. Trust me, I would LOVE to be proven wrong, because I don't like the idea of Aokiji being beat out by Akainu.
 

BetaRuler

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Anyone else think this discussions justabout over? Seems like nothing but 'what-ifs' and potential arguments arising now.
 

Schabrak

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What's the topic? Enel!

Its safe to assume that based on that information (along with Akainu's claim that Logias are ranked by superiority) that Aokiji would be hurt if Akainu would attack him (which, is unlikely).
You should not forget that even within Logia things can change completely if one's ability is dis-/advantageous against the oponents one's. Who would have thought that a rubber fruit would become such fearsome one.

Everyone has stated their theory, so we really should wait till ... who? Enel reapears and rules over them all. hehe
 

hibar90

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I think the panel that Dashbones showed akainu meteor evaporated a flying iceberg. So both were unfed from the users. Though I agree their fight would be my most anticipated fight. While Kizaru and enel is just haxx. Probably only a haki users can defeat both (apart from luffy).
 

Dasbones

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The problem with Enel fighting someone that's close to his power is that he'll lose his cool way too quickly, and if that happens he basically loses. Kizaru would have a much larger advantage over Enel, mainly because I don't think Kizaru actually feels emotion, he's just goofy.
 

ScratchmenApoo

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What about the attack range ?

Kizaru was able to shoot light beams very far away (considering the ocean near Marineford is very deep because Whitebeard's ships were able to move in unnoticed) and Akainu was able to create a meteor shower, not as far in reach, though.

We've seen that Enel's reach is very great (that God's Retribution thing where he simply wipes away people) so he can pretty much create a lightning bolt to someone from one end of Marineford to the other.
Also, we know that Kizaru's light attacks don't move at the speed of light, because that would not only be unseen, but just ridicilous, so I'll assume Enel's attacks work at half of that speed.
Still, that would be enough to take a logia enemy offguard and shock him.
(Because Smoker got phsycally hit when he didn't expect Luffy to burst into him)

The only problem is, that I don't know if the ability to become intangible, whether the user wants it or not, depends on the user's mastery of the Devil Fruit powers.
Maybe Smoker hasn't mastered his logia completely whereas Aokiji and Akainu have, meaning that it doesn't even matter if Enel can cast a thunderbolt from a mile away.

Maybe intangibility is affected by the user's muscles and nerves. If that is so, Enel's shocks could disrupt the nerves and make muscles unusable, leaving the body vulnerable.

Still, regular Zoans and Paramecias are definitely game over when Enel strikes them, just for that previous reason, if not the 'heart stopping' thing.
 

hibar90

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The problem with Enel fighting someone that's close to his power is that he'll lose his cool way too quickly, and if that happens he basically loses. Kizaru would have a much larger advantage over Enel, mainly because I don't think Kizaru actually feels emotion, he's just goofy.
The thing is, their DF power on paper should allow them to fence off any kind of attack. So, I feel only haki users are threats to them. Enel is unstable, but no doubt he's comparable to top shicibukai, WB top commanders and admirals.
 

Dasbones

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It also depends if Mantra is just a funny way of saying Haki
 

Bloodwinter

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Enel was a special circumstance. Where he lived and what Devil Fruit he ate were two important parts to just how powerful he was and appeared to be. His powers were best suited in Sky Island, one commonly noted fact was the fact that in Sky Island, rubber didn't exist and therefor things such as conductors and insulators weren't explored. Being that he lived in a place comprised mostly of cloud and water-cloud, his electric abilities were unmatched by just about anyone there. His power wouldn't have been nearly as potent on the Blue Sea, though still very formidable nonetheless. Because of the fact that he is electricity, he has the advantage of raw energy. In feats of god-like destructive force it doesn't really seem like anything can come even close besides fire and maybe magma.

Though I believe that type of power puts him leaps and bounds above most people, but I'm also a firm believer of the power is only as good as it's user. Certainly he had quite a bag of tricks as far as the uses of his power, and he was well rounded in the knowledge of electricity, but he didn't have the demeanor to really carry that devil fruit. Had you given that fruit to someone like Crocodile or Lucci especially, he would have put that fruit to far more use than Enel did himself and went about it much more intelligently.

While you can say that he would be on definitely Shichibukai level doesn't really account for too much being that one of the first major villains Luffy ever defeated shortly after his entry to the grand line was a Shichibukai. Then again, a Shichibukai could also be someone like Kuma or Mihawk. As far as being an Admiral is concerned however, he is far from the type of person who would ever stand a remote chance against an Admiral, to consider them in the same league is an insult to that title.

As for Mantra, there are two distinct differences between them that makes Mantra far inferior to Haki. Mantra is the ability to hear the voice of the person you're focused on. With that, you can hear in their head what they plan to do next, what they are plotting. So like Luffy, if they had stopped thinking of what they were doing or attacked at random, the user would be clueless as to what their moves were going to be. Haki however, shows you a premonition of what is about to happen next and you can either continue as you would or counter what you saw ahead of time. Whether they were thinking about it or not, you were to see where everything was in those premonitions and could rearrange yourself accordingly to dodge. It also gives you the ability to hit Devil Fruit users despite their intangibility.

So really, if he were to make it to the Blue Sea, he would definitely have a good run with what he had. He still doesn't hold a candle to any of the stronger people in the series, rubber or not.
 

Truefan21

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he is slightly lower than the admirals imo
i don't think haki and mantra are related
 

Dasbones

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Considering the people shown using it, I'd say it's a poor mans form of Haki, maybe a distant cousin.
 

Schabrak

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Considering the people shown using it, I'd say it's a poor mans form of Haki, maybe a distant cousin.
Oo what are you talking about, Mantra had great usage, aside from the cheap, just enforcing objects with haki attacks, like knowing where everybody on the isle is. Such infomation is much more helpfull, than some poor haki attacks, that weren't even able to damage Akainu in the slightest. People like Zorro would profit from such, when concentrating on his attack to aim on fast moving enemies.
 

Bloodwinter

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Oo what are you talking about, Mantra had great usage, aside from the cheap, just enforcing objects with haki attacks, like knowing where everybody on the isle is. Such infomation is much more helpfull, than some poor haki attacks, that weren't even able to damage Akainu in the slightest. People like Zorro would profit from such, when concentrating on his attack to aim on fast moving enemies.

That's only because Akainu hadn't fought that much against people with Haki. At this point in the series Haki is still a very new thing, and it's uses aren't thoroughly explored as with Mantra which was explained in full. Already from what we can see of Haki is that it has a lot in practical application. The one person Akainu did truly fight with Haki, Whitebeard, had beaten him into the ground and had only narrowly escaped dying. Reread the chapters of them fighting it's definitely in there.
 

firework

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Enel is easily Admiral level with his abilities.
Smoker is too, despite how he may seem.
And Ace as well, he only lost to Akainu because of his weakness, he easily matched Aokiji.
 
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elitefox

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What about the attack range ?

Kizaru was able to shoot light beams very far away (considering the ocean near Marineford is very deep because Whitebeard's ships were able to move in unnoticed) and Akainu was able to create a meteor shower, not as far in reach, though.

We've seen that Enel's reach is very great (that God's Retribution thing where he simply wipes away people) so he can pretty much create a lightning bolt to someone from one end of Marineford to the other.
Also, we know that Kizaru's light attacks don't move at the speed of light, because that would not only be unseen, but just ridicilous, so I'll assume Enel's attacks work at half of that speed.
Still, that would be enough to take a logia enemy offguard and shock him.
(Because Smoker got phsycally hit when he didn't expect Luffy to burst into him)

The only problem is, that I don't know if the ability to become intangible, whether the user wants it or not, depends on the user's mastery of the Devil Fruit powers.
Maybe Smoker hasn't mastered his logia completely whereas Aokiji and Akainu have, meaning that it doesn't even matter if Enel can cast a thunderbolt from a mile away.

Maybe intangibility is affected by the user's muscles and nerves. If that is so, Enel's shocks could disrupt the nerves and make muscles unusable, leaving the body vulnerable.

Still, regular Zoans and Paramecias are definitely game over when Enel strikes them, just for that previous reason, if not the 'heart stopping' thing.
yep, I wonder if haki can protect them from that? at least reduce it.
same as shanks protecting himself from a magma fist.

There is a clear distinction of power gap.
 

kkck

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Well, enel would be brutally powerful with his ability, he'd be someone anyone should fear. In turn, most of the people with the capacity to hit logia should be able to beat him though. Even though enel's fruit is in no way superior to that of the admirals, I don't see him standing a chance against them. In a fight against the shichibukai, I'd think any of them who has the capacity to hit logia would defeat him even if with some trouble. I could also see several of the VAs winning against him. His situation is roughly similar to that of crocodile. His abilities and mastery of his fruit make him brutally powerful and a force to be reckoned with even by the strong dudes around but if you get past the intangibility you have a good chance of winning.
 
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