How to understand Observation Haki

[silentjoker37]

Well, Fujitora is blind, yet he saw auras the same way as Usopp. Fujitora has also foreseen what would happen on the battlefield before it happened as seen here.

Most likely it's a translator mistake because it's says something completely different off Kissmanga.

Spoiler

If you look at the picture below we observe auras that are clearly indistinguishable from one another, but when you look back to your panel where Usopp first awakes CoO then we see clear silhouettes of Law, Luffy, and Sugar. If CoO is truly independent of physical sense then the more skilled CoO user, Fujitora, should able to see clear distinguiable silhouettes like Usopp, but instead we see the less skilled CoO user with superior CoO than an marine admiral.

Spoiler

And you know, Sandersonia had her eyes closed when predicting what Luffy would do. Maybe sight makes things clearer? Can't say for sure, but it definitely isn't necessary.

It is stated by Gan Fall that Mantra, aka CoO as stated by Rayleigh, is done by listening, but obviously Katakuri is using sight to predict the future. Clearly there are two different ways to use CoO through seeing or hearing.

Spoiler

Spoiler

Sanji called mantra a mind reading ability. This is from chapter 257 by the way
.

Spoiler

This explains how Luffy was able to avoid Enel's attacks by pure reflex because Luffy stopped thinking.

Spoiler

CoO can predicting the future through different means by different physical senses. These situation support my hypothesis that CoO is dependent on physical senses.

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

Most likely it's a translator mistake because it's says something completely different off Kissmanga.

If you look at the picture below we observe auras that are clearly indistinguishable from one another, but when you look back to your panel where Usopp first awakes CoO then we see clear silhouettes of Law, Luffy, and Sugar. If CoO is truly independent of physical sense then the more skilled CoO user, Fujitora, should able to see clear distinguiable silhouettes like Usopp, but instead we see the less skilled CoO user with superior CoO than an marine admiral.

It's saying the same thing. He told his ship to change back since the battley changed exactly as the official translation stated. The official translation is also far more accurate than the Mangastream one.

And he's seeing silhouettes, he said he wondered what his face looks like. You can't tell how someone's face looks like, or the colour of their eyes if you're only seeing silhouettes.

It is stated by Gan Fall that Mantra, aka CoO as stated by Rayleigh, is done by listening, but obviously Katakuri is using sight to predict the future. Clearly there are two different ways to use CoO through seeing or hearing.

Sanji called mantra a mind reading ability. This is from chapter 257 by the way
.

This explains how Luffy was able to avoid Enel's attacks by pure reflex because Luffy stopped thinking.

CoO can predicting the future through different means by different physical senses. These situation support my hypothesis that CoO is dependent on physical senses.

Whent they say hear voices, they're saying they see auras.

It is essentially reading the mind, but the mind only in relation to actions.

Haki doesn't read the mind or inner monologue, only does so in relation to actions. Katakur asked why Pudding will fall, but Pudding says saw in her inner-monologue, yet Katakuri didn't know which proves, it only reads actions as long as the user is aware of their actions.

Also, Observation Haki doesn't require physical senses, otherwise, Fujitora wouldn't be able to view silhouettes in his mind when he's blind like Usopp did. And as I said before, we see Observation Haki users close their eyes meaning sight or physical senses aren't necessary.

 

[silentjoker37]

It's saying the same thing. He told his ship to change back since the battley changed exactly as the official translation stated. The official translation is also far more accurate than the Mangastream one.

Not sure about this one because it doesn't seem to be anything definite there.

And he's seeing silhouettes, he said he wondered what his face looks like. You can't tell how someone's face looks like, or the colour of their eyes if you're only seeing silhouettes.

Usopp can see distinguishable features like what clothes or accessories they are wearing, posture, and size or shape of certain body parts through these silhouettes. I can easily identify Sugar's crown and short stature, Law's long coat and round hat, and Luffy's hat and shorts from Usopp's vision. While Fujitora sees blobs, so he can't see how thin certain body parts like the neck, or even if they have clothes, or the slightest idea of gender based on their body build from what Fujitora sees. Fujitora would most likely see Luffy, Law, and Sugar as blobs but with different heights.

If CoO is independent of physical sense and completely dependent on skill then there should be more clarity in Fujitora's vision of auras rather Usopp's, who is clearly a newbie. Not just that Fujitora shouldn't be seeing blobs from 10ft away while Usopp could see Sugar's crown from a mile away. The clarity of Usopp's CoO is unparalleled given that he is looking really far away while Fujitora could see these potatoe like silhouettes within hearing distance. Most likely the reason behind this is because Usopp's seeing distance is a lot longer than Fujitora's hearing distance.

Whent they say hear voices, they're saying they see auras.

That's quite confusing because I don't hear the color red, I see it.

Also, Observation Haki doesn't require physical senses, otherwise, Fujitora wouldn't be able to view silhouettes in his mind when he's blind like Usopp did. And as I said before, we see Observation Haki users close their eyes meaning sight or physical senses aren't necessary.

Just because Observation Haki users closes their eyes doesn't mean they are devoid of physical senses because they can still hear. A blind man can't see, but doesn't mean he can't hear. Gan Fall has stated CoO is performed by listening the sounds of your opponent's body. Clearly Fujitora could use hearing to figure out the general location of people around him to sense their aura.

It is essentially reading the mind, but the mind only in relation to actions.

I agree with you there.

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

Not sure about this one because it doesn't seem to be anything definite there.

Well it is, the fact is he knew the battle was going to change course before it happened. All translations state so explicitly.

Usopp can see distinguishable features like what clothes or accessories they are wearing, posture, and size or shape of certain body parts through these silhouettes. I can easily identify Sugar's crown and short stature, Law's long coat and round hat, and Luffy's hat and shorts from Usopp's vision. While Fujitora sees blobs, so he can't see how thin certain body parts like the neck, or even if they have clothes, or the slightest idea of gender based on their body build from what Fujitora sees. Fujitora would most likely see Luffy, Law, and Sugar as blobs but with different heights.

If CoO is independent of physical sense and completely dependent on skill then there should be more clarity in Fujitora's vision of auras rather Usopp's, who is clearly a newbie. Not just that Fujitora shouldn't be seeing blobs from 10ft away while Usopp could see Sugar's crown from a mile away. The clarity of Usopp's CoO is unparalleled given that he is looking really far away while Fujitora could see these potatoe like silhouettes within hearing distance. Most likely the reason behind this is because Usopp's seeing distance is a lot longer than Fujitora's hearing distance.

Actually, still not so accurate. Usopp initially saw them as blobs and since he was so focused, he got a very distinctive outline. Fujitora's is not as distinct, but it's there. Difference is he has no reason to be so focused, there's 100s of people there. He's not looking for any particular persons.

Also, you forget that Fujitora knew full well in a crowd full of people who Joker, Law, Luffy & Zoro meaning he can distinguish between people accurate when necessary. Physical senses aren't necessary, and as I already showed, people can make still see the auras of others with their eyes closed which proves sight isn't necessary at all. We have a blind person using it.

Just because Observation Haki users closes their eyes doesn't mean they are devoid of physical senses because they can still hear. A blind man can't see, but doesn't mean he can't hear. Gan Fall has stated CoO is performed by listening the sounds of your opponent's body. Clearly Fujitora could use hearing to figure out the general location of people around him to sense their aura.

Voice is not literally, it's referring to sensing auras. The only reason it's called Voice is because the auras are translated as frequency/wavelength. Chapter 883, Luffy said he could "sense" the voice of Katakuri, not hear, it's referring to sensing which is more or less by context, seeing. You're not listening to the sound of your opponent, you're seeing their aura. Fujitora wasn't hearing auras, he was seeing them. It's just the phrasing.

As you can obviously see, they're seeing auras.

Enemies you can't see, it's nothing to do with physical sense. It's not a physical ability. It's magical. It's a power that allows one to know the future actions of their opponents. Nothing to do with physical senses - they don't give people such abilities.

 

[silentjoker37]

Actually, still not so accurate. Usopp initially saw them as blobs and since he was so focused, he got a very distinctive outline. Fujitora's is not as distinct, but it's there. Difference is he has no reason to be so focused, there's 100s of people there. He's not looking for any particular persons.

Like you said there is 100's of people there yet Fujitora was able to listen to a single conversation that explained the peoples' actions. Clearly the citizens were trying to deceive Fujitora so they didn't have the conversation near him. It must takes a great amount of focus to listen on to a single conversation among a clusters of deceptively angry shouts.

Also, you forget that Fujitora knew full well in a crowd full of people who Joker, Law, Luffy & Zoro meaning he can distinguish between people accurate when necessary. Physical senses aren't necessary, and as I already showed, people can make still see the auras of others with their eyes closed which proves sight isn't necessary at all. We have a blind person using it.

Yes, Fujitora was able to distinguish from one person from another because everyone has a unique aura. Aura isn't composed of the shape of physical characters but of strength. When we look at the anime, the dressrosa crowd was still composed of blobs but they have different colors to represent different auras. We don't know if Fujitora can actually see auras or it's the aura in this picture represents his awareness of the people around him. Bats can sense objects around them through sonar, but you wouldn't say they can "see".

Spoiler

Voice is not literally, it's referring to sensing auras. The only reason it's called Voice is because the auras are translated as frequency/wavelength. Chapter 883, Luffy said he could "sense" the voice of Katakuri, not hear, it's referring to sensing which is more or less by context, seeing. You're not listening to the sound of your opponent, you're seeing their aura. Fujitora wasn't hearing auras, he was seeing them. It's just the phrasing.

Luffy should have been able to instantaneously identified Katakuri right away, but Luffy just deduced that the aura belong to someone strong so it must belong to Katakuri. Luffy had just fought a battle with Katakuri while using CoO so he should have recognized his opponent right away. Obviously it means Luffy didn't see the aura of Katakuri, but Luffy heard the voice of Katakuri like the manga has stated.

Spoiler

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

Like you said there is 100's of people there yet Fujitora was able to listen to a single conversation that explained the peoples' actions. Clearly the citizens were trying to deceive Fujitora so they didn't have the conversation near him. It must takes a great amount of focus to listen on to a single conversation among a clusters of deceptively angry shouts.



Yes, Fujitora was able to distinguish from one person from another because everyone has a unique aura. Aura isn't composed of the shape of physical characters but of strength. When we look at the anime, the dressrosa crowd was still composed of blobs but they have different colors to represent different auras. We don't know if Fujitora can actually see auras or it's the aura in this picture represents his awareness of the people around him. Bats can sense objects around them through sonar, but you wouldn't say they can "see".

Spoiler

Luffy should have been able to instantaneously identified Katakuri right away, but Luffy just deduced that the aura belong to someone strong so it must belong to Katakuri. Luffy had just fought a battle with Katakuri while using CoO so he should have recognized his opponent right away. Obviously it means Luffy didn't see the aura of Katakuri, but Luffy heard the voice of Katakuri like the manga has stated.

Spoiler

Actually, no.

Even Katakuri couldn't tell where Luffy was instantly.

It's seen.

Long story short, you're wrong about physical senses because it's a spiritual power. Physical senses do not pick up spiritual things. It's a spiritual ability.

 

[kkck]

I agree with everything else you have said until this paragraph. I think it is debatable that CoO is independent of physical senses. We have seen through Katukuri's eyes his ability to foresee the future is limited to what he is directly looking at based on Pudding's situation, but Fujitora, on the other hand, shouldn't have access to this capability because of his blindness. Even Fujitora remarked how he liked to see Luffy's face, which means that Fujitora can't see possibly see the future the same way as Katurk doesi. Fujitora doesn't support your hypothesis that CoO is independent of physical senses.

IMO it is too early to say. Fujitora for one thing does not seem to focus too much on predicting the future but rather on real time feeling of stuff around him. And even without eyes, his perception of things around him more than compensates for his disability. Add to that that the evidence does not really sufficiently support eyesight being a requirement to make predictions. There is plenty of room there for a number of things to be happening. My guess is that fujitora ultimately uses both aspects of observation haki for combat, he primarily focuses on feeling auras around him in real time and supplements that with observation haki's predictive abilities. There are several cases where predictions made via observation haki surpass even the user's overall perception. Take katakuri predicting pudding would fall to her knees. That prediction happened before even pudding could have plausibly known that was going to happen. It happened before she showed sanji her third eye and called it beautiful. As far as pudding was concerned she was going to do something entirely different. In other words observation haki can surpass not only the user's senses but also the target's senses...

 

[silentjoker37]

Long story short, you're wrong about physical senses because it's a spiritual power. Physical senses do not pick up spiritual things. It's a spiritual ability.

You're wrong about that because Brooke's soul form shouldn't be seen when he leaves his body.

Physical senses can detect spiritual things.

IMO it is too early to say. Fujitora for one thing does not seem to focus too much on predicting the future but rather on real time feeling of stuff around him. And even without eyes, his perception of things around him more than compensates for his disability. Add to that that the evidence does not really sufficiently support eyesight being a requirement to make predictions. There is plenty of room there for a number of things to be happening. My guess is that fujitora ultimately uses both aspects of observation haki for combat, he primarily focuses on feeling auras around him in real time and supplements that with observation haki's predictive abilities. There are several cases where predictions made via observation haki surpass even the user's overall perception. Take katakuri predicting pudding would fall to her knees. That prediction happened before even pudding could have plausibly known that was going to happen. It happened before she showed sanji her third eye and called it beautiful. As far as pudding was concerned she was going to do something entirely different. In other words observation haki can surpass not only the user's senses but also the target's senses...

Obviously katakuri's ability to see the future is limited to what he directly looking at the moment. His vision wasn't wide enough to see Sanji but just Pudding.

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

You're wrong about that because Brooke's soul form shouldn't be seen when he leaves his body.

Wrong, his ability to manifest his soul is due to his power.

No one can see souls, only Brook's soul was modified on death.

Haki is a spiritual power, so it can only be discerned spiritually.

 

[silentjoker37]

Wrong, his ability to manifest his soul is due to his power.

No one can see souls, only Brook's soul was modified on death.

Haki is a spiritual power, so it can only be discerned spiritually.

Explain then how Usopp was able to see Perona's spirit form

 

[kkck]

Obviously katakuri's ability to see the future is limited to what he directly looking at the moment. His vision wasn't wide enough to see Sanji but just Pudding.

Wide enough? Sanji was literally right next to pudding. If his vision was wide enough, whatever that means, to see pudding act on things which she didn't even imagine then it was certainly wide enough to see sanji. And besides, would it even make sense that predicting was limited to eyesight when the whole point of observation haki is to feel things you normally couldn't perceive with traditional senses? We have even seen a few cases of predictions working regardless of the direction where someone is looking at.

 

[silentjoker37]

Wide enough? Sanji was literally right next to pudding. If his vision was wide enough, whatever that means, to see pudding act on things which she didn't even imagine then it was certainly wide enough to see sanji. And besides, would it even make sense that predicting was limited to eyesight when the whole point of observation haki is to feel things you normally couldn't perceive with traditional senses? We have even seen a few cases of predictions working regardless of the direction where someone is looking at.

My argument is that CoO is reliant on physical senses, sight, hearing, smell, touch, and taste. If CoO was completely independent of the five physical senses and reliant solely on skill, then Fujitora, who is blind, should have superior aura reading clarity than Usopp, but instead we see less distinct shapes of aura silhouettes for Dressrosa citizens vs Law, Sugar, and Luffy. We have take into consideration that when Usopp used CoO it was over a long distance, yet we could distinguish Luffy, Sugar, and Law. Fujitora can't distinguish the shape, size, or clothing worn based on his CoO.

 

[kkck]

My argument is that CoO is reliant on physical senses, sight, hearing, smell, touch, and taste. If CoO was completely independent of the five physical senses and reliant solely on skill, then Fujitora, who is blind, should have superior aura reading clarity than Usopp, but instead we see less distinct shapes of aura silhouettes for Dressrosa citizens vs Law, Sugar, and Luffy. We have take into consideration that when Usopp used CoO it was over a long distance, yet we could distinguish Luffy, Sugar, and Law. Fujitora can't distinguish the shape, size, or clothing worn based on his CoO.

How can COO be reliant on the physical senses? The variation used by fujitora clearly does not depend on his senses at least. He "sees" aura in spite of being blind. And he perceives things over vast distances as well, considering he carefully aimed half an island at the strawhat fleet and intentionally missed. By any logic hitting them should have been easier than not hitting them. if fujitora is blind but he can "see" auras then clearly this does not rely on his senses. It certainly does not rely on his sight, which he lost, it certainly does not rely on his smell, touch, taste or hearing at least. I don't rule out COO having the capacity to enhance other senses however it can clearly work independently of them. And the notion that fujitora, a blind swordsman that is capable of fighting at the highest level evidenced by his admiral rank, could conceivably have inferior haki to ussop, a worthless piece of shit that has used haki precisely once, is beyond preposterous.

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

Explain then how Usopp was able to see Perona's spirit form

Because they're visible...

You do realise that everyone can see Perona's ghosts because they're visible.. everyone can even see Brook's ghost. These are Devil fruit powers that manifest visibly, not the ability to see people via Haki.

Observation Haki and seeing Perona's ghosts or Brook's ghost has nothing to do with Haki. Seems you're bent of believing so, then I concede here, lol.

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 2, 2018, Original Post Date: Nov 22, 2017 ---

Updated Version from Reddit and more: https://www.reddit.com/user/HPsyche/submitted

 

[M3J]

My argument is that CoO is reliant on physical senses, sight, hearing, smell, touch, and taste. If CoO was completely independent of the five physical senses and reliant solely on skill, then Fujitora, who is blind, should have superior aura reading clarity than Usopp, but instead we see less distinct shapes of aura silhouettes for Dressrosa citizens vs Law, Sugar, and Luffy. We have take into consideration that when Usopp used CoO it was over a long distance, yet we could distinguish Luffy, Sugar, and Law. Fujitora can't distinguish the shape, size, or clothing worn based on his CoO.

your argument fails. If Color of Observation was reliant on physical senses, then why could Luffy with his eyes closed, Fujitora, and Usopp despite not being able to see the far distance sense auras/spirits? I don't know if the other four senses come into play here, but so far they haven't.

And probably because Fujitora wasn't concentrating as hard, and/or he was trying to sense something else, whereas Usopp wanted to sense specific presences and aim accurately.

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 2, 2018, Original Post Date: Feb 2, 2018 ---

Does that make Sanji dodging Katakuri's mochi bullet during the wedding even more impressive? If only Katakuri can see the future, Sanji dodging the bullet means his speed and reaction times are so incredible that he can stop time.

Naw, it'd be impressive only if he saw it coming before it happened. Color of Observation seems to show things a second or two before they happen, like how Luffy dodged Demalo's bullet before knocking him out with haki. Plus, Sanji likely had his Color of Observation on during the entire wedding since he knew about the planned betrayal, otherwise it'd have been a close call.


Katakuri knew Sanji was going to dodge before the priest even fired a shot (or pulled out his gun?). most CoO users would have probably known that when the priest fired his gun, or after, if at all. That's the difference, I suspect.

 

[Tonix]

Katakuri knew Sanji was going to dodge before the priest even fired a shot (or pulled out his gun?). most CoO users would have probably known that when the priest fired his gun, or after, if at all. That's the difference, I suspect.

http://www.mangapanda.com/one-piece/862/13
Katakuri could see Sanji was going to dodge the priest's bullet, but he couldn't see that Sanji would dodge his own bullet. Sanji wasn't looking at Katakuri, so that means he was using his CoO. If Katakuri's CoO couldn't see Sanji dodging his mochi bullet, then that must mean Sanji's CoO can see further into the future than Katakuri's right?

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

http://www.mangapanda.com/one-piece/862/13
Katakuri could see Sanji was going to dodge the priest's bullet, but he couldn't see that Sanji would dodge his own bullet. Sanji wasn't looking at Katakuri, so that means he was using his CoO. If Katakuri's CoO couldn't see Sanji dodging his mochi bullet, then that must mean Sanji's CoO can see further into the future than Katakuri's right?

Sanji's CoO isn't better than Katakuri, otherwise Sanji would be impossible to hit. He got beat by Judge.

 

[M3J]

http://www.mangapanda.com/one-piece/862/13
Katakuri could see Sanji was going to dodge the priest's bullet, but he couldn't see that Sanji would dodge his own bullet. Sanji wasn't looking at Katakuri, so that means he was using his CoO. If Katakuri's CoO couldn't see Sanji dodging his mochi bullet, then that must mean Sanji's CoO can see further into the future than Katakuri's right?

Nope. Katakuri likely couldn't see it because he interfered, like how he saw Luffy run out of haki and not be able to move, but telling LUffy this made Luffy go out of Gear 4 mode before that could happen. Looks like Katakuri can't predict the new future once he interferes.

 

[Tonix]

Nope. Katakuri likely couldn't see it because he interfered, like how he saw Luffy run out of haki and not be able to move, but telling LUffy this made Luffy go out of Gear 4 mode before that could happen. Looks like Katakuri can't predict the new future once he interferes.

But Sanji was not only able to predict the priest's shot, but also predict Katakuri's interference as well.

Sanji's CoO isn't better than Katakuri, otherwise Sanji would be impossible to hit. He got beat by Judge.

Didn't Sanji let Judge beat him because Judge was using innocent bystanders as human shields?

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

Didn't Sanji let Judge beat him because Judge was using innocent bystanders as human shields?

Nope, prior to that he was losing the fight. Before even the "innocent bystanders" got involved:

Judge was pushing him back. Judge was the one on the offensive and Sanji on the defensive.

Spoiler

Where was his godly Observation here?

Spoiler

So even before bystanders, Sanji was not doing anything great. He couldn't even dodge an attack against Judge when he was fighting in the air, and said "this is my forte".

In fact, where is his amazing Observation? Why didn't he know Judge would have innocent bystanders in his way... before it happened? His Observation is nowhere near Katakuri's or Luffy's at this point.

But Sanji was not only able to predict the priest's shot, but also predict Katakuri's interference as well.

Sanji didn't predict the priests shot. Katakuri only saw that Sanji would dodge it if the priest shot. Since the priest didn't shoot at him, he never got to predict it.

As I said before, Observation Haki only predicts things from the point that the the person viewing the future will not intervene.

Therefore, Katakuri saw that Sanji would evade the priest's attack from the point of view he (Katakuri himself) wouldn't intervene.

Therefore, Katakuri decided to intervene because he knew the priest would miss his shot.

All Sanji saw was Katakuri shooting at him, and he dodged it, nothing amazing. Any Observation haki user can do this.

Observation haki users cannot see the outcome of their own attacks. That's why Katakuri missed his shot against Sanji, and reason why he's been unable to hit Luffy with fatal blows for so many hours.

What we saw here is nothing amazing, anyone can do it if they already know they're going to be killed. He knew he was going to be shot by these people before it happened because he heard Pudding anyway. He was prepared to be ready to avoid attacks.

If Sanji's Haki is so great as Katakuri's, why is he getting attacked by basic attacks?

Sanji's Observation is nothing amazing.