Anime Hunter X Hunter Anime- Fall 2011

[mrsticky005]

The referee who Illumi throws needles at doesn't die. You can see him during the 1st round of the election for the 13th chairman.

(the 5th one of the 9 referees, from top to bottom, right to left)

I'm not sure why he would die...weren't those same needles in Illumi's face?
Though I'm sure he was in a great deal of pain. Illumi however is used to such pain.

Even though I prefer the new anime I still like the 1999 series, heck I even own all the box sets Viz released lol. I know some people hated the dub but I found it enjoyable too, and Brendan Hunter as Hisoka was awesome.

Brendan Hunter totally stole the show.

Also, if he died, Illumi would be disqualified, no?

What if he dies after Illumi won?

I have been listening to this track all day. It's just such a beautiful song and probably my favorite out of the entire OST.

Yeah it's a favorite of mine too.

i think a lot of people here are overthinking the differences between the 1999 series and the manga, with the intent of downplaying the former. you guys are completely failing to appreciate just how amazing the execution of the 1999 series was, and it is very apparent in this episode where nippon animation's version outclasses even the manga.

Ok listen up chappy the rabbit. You can like the 1999 series better than the manga
but that doesn't change the fact that the manga came out FIRST and is the ORIGINAL
source material. It doesn't matter how good the 1999 series was. The 2011 version
is NOT meant to follow it but instead the manga. The question you should ask
is which follows the manga better. From what I seen so far--the 2011 series does.

I don't think the comparison is to downplay the Nippon one, but to show the differences between Manga and both versions because some fans are too attached to that older series to give the new one a chance.

I actually made the poll a bit tricky, but because I like stats. IMHO both version are different. The approach is differently. I agree that it was the anime who made me read the manga, but it's also truth that I enjoyed the manga more. Some of the things that bothered most in the series were not in the manga at all. Leorio being the main thing about it and body proportions. But that's only me.

I still think it's good, but I can't deny I think 2011 is better.

They are different. And I actually am glad they are.

in what way? (let's limit ourselves to this episode) 1999 series is better in nearly all aspects: character design,background, coloring, pacing, animation, music, script, mood/atmosphere/tension, storyboarding and overall direction. the only edge 2011 series has is that it's more faithful in the manga, but even then this isn't necessarily an advantage. in fact, i'd argue that the additions made the story more engaging and have better flow, and shows that nippon animation put more effort into it instead of just copying and pasting everything. this is not a knock against madhouse (i don't expect them to include these same fillers), but i'm simply giving credit where it is due rather than dismissing it via overgeneralizations like "it's crap because it's filler."

anyway i don't hate the 2011 series and i don't judge it by the standards of the 1999 series, but i think it should be obvious that the latter is faaaar better in the handling of the current episode. there shouldn't even be any discussion.

No it's not. 2011 character designs beat the 1999 character designs by miles.
I like both backgrounds. It's a different feel to each one so I like them in different ways.
2011 has better coloring. I prefer the bright and vibrant colors as it makes things easy
to see. You must be joking. The pacing on the 1999 series was awful. Only reason
it worked was because it's Hunter x Hunter. Can you imagine watching let's say
Naruto with such pacing with one chapter at a time with fillers? We still be in Part 1!
Animation is better in the 2011 version episode to episode. We haven't gotten to
stuff like Gon vs Hisoka in the 2011 version which is easily one of the best fights
in the 1999 series so we don't know how they'll compare. Music is good in the 1999
version but I like the 2011 version better. It sounds more like hunter music while
the 1999 series sounds more like some sad drama. think about it like this, the 1999
series is about Gon searching for his father and the music fits that drama. The 2011
series is about Gon becoming a hunter and the music fits that adventure.
Script is better in the 2011 version as it more closely follows the manga and didn't
almost ruin Killua's character. Plus Kurapica is less annoying as he's not a stupid
human encyclopedia anymore. Man, that was annoying. The mood/atomsphere/tension
is better in the 2011 series. When Hisoka chokes Gon in the 2011 series and the
music stops it's actually quite freaky. I didn't get that feeling from the 1999 series.
Storyboarding is better in the 2011. Overall direction is better than the 2011 version.
Yes it is better at following the manga like it's supposed to. and IMO the manga
is superior.

Yes you can say the older series executed the story great but that was its Ultimate downfall. The story got changed, the dialogue was presenting the characters in a different manner and overall it would greatly affect and contradict most of the things that would later happen in the series. That being said it doesn't really matter since the old series is still available to watch. The old one is good, but i appreciate the 2011 version much more.

agreed

and again, people are overplaying the significance of the differences between the 1999 series and the manga. the changes are so bloody minor, they're basically just nitpicking

besides, hxh isn't some rocket science. in many ways, it is a work of art, so not everything in the "system" has to add up. it is the viewing experience that matters more.


anyway i think i've vented and enough, this will be my last. episode 30 is my third favorite episode in the 1999 series (outside york shin), so i was just frustrated that people overlook all the things it did excellently just because of a few rather minor divergences from the manga.

Making Killua into an emo isn't a minor change. Yes most changes are minor but they
do add up. And so what if we nitpick? We're manga lovers! That's our job! Don't think
we're just hatin on the 1999 series because we nitpick the 2011 version too.
But as it stands the 2011 version does a better job of following the manga.
Even YOU admit this. Now could it all go down hill? Sure but let's hope not.

Only music was better, the rest I still prefer the new one. Animation wise, how the characters were drawn, the backgrounds, mood and tension being subtle in gestures and attention to detail is what made this episode better than the Nippon one.
Although music-sound wise I have to agree that Nippon was better. And that helped a lot to the mood, so I'll go neutral about it.

But the animation particularly was good and the little changes on the expressions are one of those things that buy me over.


And every opinion is respected, you can rage about it as much as you want. As long as you don't disrespect others and don't bother me you've free way.

I prefer the 2011 music. Even before the brilliant new zoldyck family theme track.

The problem is that for us the changes are significant.

Hunter x Hunter is a manga that explores the psychology of the characters, in a very subtle way. So the way in which the characters are simplified or altered in the 1999 anime is important. To me it's more important than if the scene is placed in a sunset or if the animation is superior in the 1999 version.

this is true.

^example pls



uhm, no. just... no.

but ya okay, your view.

edit: wait, have you even watched it recently? just curious.

have you read Popo's comparisons? Popo does a pretty good job of
showing how the differences affect the story and characters.

 

[ankifeather]

in what way? (let's limit ourselves to this episode) 1999 series is better in nearly all aspects: character design,background, coloring, pacing, animation, music, script, mood/atmosphere/tension, storyboarding and overall direction. the only edge 2011 series has is that it's more faithful in the manga, but even then this isn't necessarily an advantage. in fact, i'd argue that the additions made the story more engaging and have better flow, and shows that nippon animation put more effort into it instead of just copying and pasting everything. this is not a knock against madhouse (i don't expect them to include these same fillers), but i'm simply giving credit where it is due rather than dismissing it via overgeneralizations like "it's crap because it's filler."

Yes you can say the older series executed the story great but that was its Ultimate downfall. The story got changed, the dialogue was presenting the characters in a different manner and overall it would greatly affect and contradict most of the things that would later happen in the series. That being said it doesn't really matter since the old series is still available to watch. The old one is good, but i appreciate the 2011 version much more.

and again, people are overplaying the significance of the differences between the 1999 series and the manga. the changes are so bloody minor, they're basically just nitpicking

besides, hxh isn't some rocket science. in many ways, it is a work of art, so not everything in the "system" has to add up. it is the viewing experience that matters more.


anyway i think i've vented and enough, this will be my last. episode 30 is my third favorite episode in the 1999 series (outside york shin), so i was just frustrated that people overlook all the things it did excellently just because of a few rather minor divergences from the manga.

I agree that I don't understand why people say the fillers in the 1999 version contradicts later events in the manga like its a downfall. Can someone point out a filler that is totally contradictory to the manga itself? I actually felt that some of the fillers fill in plot holes and empty spaces that Togashi left in the manga himself. You can tell when HxH manga started, he had so many wonderful ideas that he is moving the story at a fast pace and leaving deeper character development till later arcs. All the fillers did was bring them earlier in the 1999 anime so the audiences can feel for the characters better. A good example is the Leorio and hallucination tree and Lelute's change to a psychiatric killer. In the manga, even till this day, all we get of his background is his friend's death sparking his desire to be a doctor. That's it,we don't get further insights, making him a rather under-developed character. The hallucination tree and Lelute brought out his internal struggles and makes his desire to be a hunter/doctor more real and convincing. The hallucination tree episode also gives Kurapica and Leorio a reason to save Killua, because he once saved them, albeit out of boredom. Otherwise, in the manga they've barely interacted with Killua other than a few chat in the first and third exam, they don't have a reason to want to save him. They feel sorry for him alright, but that itself is not deep enough a reason to risk their life to visit the Zoldycks. These are plot holes that the fillers did a good job of explaining.

While Madhouse have done nothing wrong in copying and pasting the manga and I don't want them to add fillers cause i do like the fast pace, I couldn't help but sometimes feel that they've just managed to copy the form but not the spirit, like they just colour-in the manga, stuff on some random BGM, but haven't done much to enhance the manga scene nor given deep thoughts about the feelings of the events. The episodes where I felt they have gotten the spirit were the ball-game, Gon/Kurapica's fight in the tower, the whole 4th exam and Killua v Illumi. While Killua v Illumi is probably my fave episode of the 2011 version so far, I agree with chikkychappy that same episode in the 1999 version managed to enhance the manga scene into a whole other level. The blood-red lighting emphasises the fact these are not two ordinary brother, but two "assasin" brothers talking, the content involving whether to kill someone. Killua's every hair and sweat were drawn to miniscule details and the music were truly drowning him in a pool of despair.

 

[chikkychappy]

and as many people in NF have already pointed-out, popo's comparisons are biased. she nitpicks and glosses over the most minor details in the 1999 series and then apologizes for the gross shortcomings of the 2011 series. but of course a lot of people here eat it up and consider objective.

No it's not. 2011 character designs beat the 1999 character designs by miles.
I like both backgrounds. It's a different feel to each one so I like them in different ways.
2011 has better coloring. I prefer the bright and vibrant colors as it makes things easy
to see. You must be joking. The pacing on the 1999 series was awful. Only reason
it worked was because it's Hunter x Hunter. Can you imagine watching let's say
Naruto with such pacing with one chapter at a time with fillers? We still be in Part 1!
Animation is better in the 2011 version episode to episode. We haven't gotten to
stuff like Gon vs Hisoka in the 2011 version which is easily one of the best fights
in the 1999 series so we don't know how they'll compare. Music is good in the 1999
version but I like the 2011 version better. It sounds more like hunter music while
the 1999 series sounds more like some sad drama. think about it like this, the 1999
series is about Gon searching for his father and the music fits that drama. The 2011
series is about Gon becoming a hunter and the music fits that adventure.
Script is better in the 2011 version as it more closely follows the manga and didn't
almost ruin Killua's character. Plus Kurapica is less annoying as he's not a stupid
human encyclopedia anymore. Man, that was annoying. The mood/atomsphere/tension
is better in the 2011 series. When Hisoka chokes Gon in the 2011 series and the
music stops it's actually quite freaky. I didn't get that feeling from the 1999 series.
Storyboarding is better in the 2011. Overall direction is better than the 2011 version.
Yes it is better at following the manga like it's supposed to. and IMO the manga
is superior.

then you don't know how to appreciate good direction. blunt, but true. sorry.

i'm done here (for real this time), you can rave over the 2011 series all you want. but i'm confident that a few years from now (unless the 2011 series improves, ofc), the 1999 series will stand far above the 2011 one. the 1999 series has proven its staying power for 12+ years; on the other hand, madhouse's version isn't even one of the best shows in the past two seasons.

 

[mrsticky005]

and as many people in NF have already pointed-out, popo's comparisons are biased. she nitpicks and glosses over the most minor details in the 1999 series and then apologizes for the gross shortcomings of the 2011 series. but of course a lot of people here eat it up and consider objective.




then you don't know how to appreciate good direction. blunt, but true. sorry.

i'm done here (for real this time), you can rave over the 2011 series all you want. but i'm confident that a few years from now (unless the 2011 series improves, ofc), the 1999 series will stand far above the 2011 one. the 1999 series has proven its staying power for 12+ years; on the other hand, madhouse's version isn't even one of the best shows in the past two seasons.

As I said before I nitpick the 2011 series just as well. Popo's comparisons aren't without their bias but they are the best comparisons I've seen.
If not for the fact that they are really the only comparisons I've seen. Really I don't have much of a problem with Popo "defending" the 2011
series when fans of the 1999 series are constantly on the attack simply because the 2011 series is not the 1999 series.
Also those minor details are kinda the point. Although minor is subjective. Things like the order of the final exam fights might not matter to you
but to manga fans they do. And again, I nitpick the 2011 series all the same. I nitpicked it when Killua didn't crush Jonas heart for example.
There I actually prefer the 1999 version. Though I like Jonas design a lot more in the 2011 version. But anywho I nitpick base off the manga.



That's your opinion which isn't a fact.

IMO good direction is following the manga. If it's called Hunter x Hunter that's what I expect. The 2011 series is closer to the manga. That's all.

Ok I will do that. You can go ahead and rave about the 1999 series which believe it or not I do enjoy (I wouldn't own the four boxsets if I didn't
and the only reason I don't own the OVAs is that they are not in English.) But please do so elsewhere. There are a million other 1999 Hunter x Hunter
discussion threads you can join and discuss the anime you DO like and let us who enjoy the 2011 series enjoy it in peace. And if we like it better
than the 1999 series then so what? It's not the end of the world.

 

[chikkychappy]

There are a million other 1999 Hunter x Hunter
discussion threads you can join and discuss the anime you DO like and let us who enjoy the 2011 series enjoy it in peace. And if we like it better
than the 1999 series then so what? It's not the end of the world.

you're absolutely right. i got carried away there, sorry about that.


ps i'm not actually one of those overzealous fans who penalize madhouse for not including fillers, but i understand your sentiment as i have seen many of those said fans around.

 

[Noonealive]

I agree that I don't understand why people say the fillers in the 1999 version contradicts later events in the manga like its a downfall. Can someone point out a filler that is totally contradictory to the manga itself? I actually felt that some of the fillers fill in plot holes and empty spaces that Togashi left in the manga himself. You can tell when HxH manga started, he had so many wonderful ideas that he is moving the story at a fast pace and leaving deeper character development till later arcs. All the fillers did was bring them earlier in the 1999 anime so the audiences can feel for the characters better. A good example is the Leorio and hallucination tree and Lelute's change to a psychiatric killer. In the manga, even till this day, all we get of his background is his friend's death sparking his desire to be a doctor. That's it,we don't get further insights, making him a rather under-developed character. The hallucination tree and Lelute brought out his internal struggles and makes his desire to be a hunter/doctor more real and convincing. The hallucination tree episode also gives Kurapica and Leorio a reason to save Killua, because he once saved them, albeit out of boredom. Otherwise, in the manga they've barely interacted with Killua other than a few chat in the first and third exam, they don't have a reason to want to save him. They feel sorry for him alright, but that itself is not deep enough a reason to risk their life to visit the Zoldycks. These are plot holes that the fillers did a good job of explaining.

Look first of all changing someone else story to what they think is "right" to "justify" plot holes is not a good argument. The fillers didn't do anything but change the development of the characters and no the 1999 series didn't bring the development sooner, it complete rerouted the development. When you read through the chapters you don't feel that there is no bond between the 4 of them. Killua being apart of the majority group in the tower was a team effort. Being a part of a team where your life may be on the line isn't forgettable. None the less Kurapika and Leorio feel like they owe Gon because he helped them out in iffy situations, so they would gladly go help Gon bring his freind back. You think Karupika and Leorio are only doing it for Killua's sake when actually they're doing it for Gon as well. These characters aren't one dimensional or else the manga wouldn't have been as enjoyable IMO. When i read it i take every chapter into account on where the plot leads because it's relevant to the decisions these 4 main characters make.

As for rerouteing the series you could obviously look at Popo's comparison posts, they're quite reasonable and easy to understand. Let me give you one prime example what Furhashi did that changed and misinterpreted Gon's character. In the 1999 series when Gon rescued the 3 from the cave Gon put Burbons tag on Ponzu's lap, he waited for Kurapika and Leorio to wake up. This time Ponzu was still asleep and Leorio was the one who ended up taking Ponzu's tag. In the manga/2011 version Gon was the one who stole it. Doesn't this little subtlety alone develop Gon in a different manner? Won't it contradict his personality when he comes across situations as these? Gon's mom isn't confirmed dead either, which is another contradiction that the 1999 series has. Don't get me wrong i fell in love when i watched the 1999 series, but than when i read the manga my whole perspective of it changed. It's a good series but it made more plot holes than sealed them.

 

[mrsticky005]

you're absolutely right. i got carried away there, sorry about that.


ps i'm not actually one of those overzealous fans who penalize madhouse for not including fillers, but i understand your sentiment as i have seen many of those said fans around.

It's cool.

Look first of all changing someone else story to what they think is "right" to "justify" plot holes is not a good argument. The fillers didn't do anything but change the development of the characters and no the 1999 series didn't bring the development sooner, it complete rerouted the development. When you read through the chapters you don't feel that there is no bond between the 4 of them. Killua being apart of the majority group in the tower was a team effort. Being a part of a team where your life may be on the line isn't forgettable. None the less Kurapika and Leorio feel like they owe Gon because he helped them out in iffy situations, so they would gladly go help Gon bring his freind back. You think Karupika and Leorio are only doing it for Killua's sake when actually they're doing it for Gon as well. These characters aren't one dimensional or else the manga wouldn't have been as enjoyable IMO. When i read it i take every chapter into account on where the plot leads because it's relevant to the decisions these 4 main characters make.

As for rerouteing the series you could obviously look at Popo's comparison posts, they're quite reasonable and easy to understand. Let me give you one prime example what Furhashi did that changed and misinterpreted Gon's character. In the 1999 series when Gon rescued the 3 from the cave Gon put Burbons tag on Ponzu's lap, he waited for Kurapika and Leorio to wake up. This time Ponzu was still asleep and Leorio was the one who ended up taking Ponzu's tag. In the manga/2011 version Gon was the one who stole it. Doesn't this little subtlety alone develop Gon in a different manner? Won't it contradict his personality when he comes across situations as these? Gon's mom isn't confirmed dead either, which is another contradiction that the 1999 series has. Don't get me wrong i fell in love when i watched the 1999 series, but than when i read the manga my whole perspective of it changed. It's a good series but it made more plot holes than sealed them.

Remember how Leorio used to be a pervert?

 

[Host Samurai]

What the hell happened here, while I was gone?! I just barely survived carnival and missed the entire discussion. This weeks episode was one of the better ones and the music wasn't that out of place except (Sharingan Illumi -.-): dat Illumi theme is something, I'm looking forward too.

 

[mrsticky005]

What the hell happened here, while I was gone?! I just barely survived carnival and missed the entire discussion. This weeks episode was one of the better ones and the music wasn't that out of place except (Sharingan Illumi -.-): dat Illumi theme is something, I'm looking forward too.

carnival?

anywho it's nice that one way or another HxH is getting more lively discussions.

 

[ankifeather]

Look first of all changing someone else story to what they think is "right" to "justify" plot holes is not a good argument. The fillers didn't do anything but change the development of the characters and no the 1999 series didn't bring the development sooner, it complete rerouted the development. When you read through the chapters you don't feel that there is no bond between the 4 of them. Killua being apart of the majority group in the tower was a team effort. Being a part of a team where your life may be on the line isn't forgettable. None the less Kurapika and Leorio feel like they owe Gon because he helped them out in iffy situations, so they would gladly go help Gon bring his freind back. You think Karupika and Leorio are only doing it for Killua's sake when actually they're doing it for Gon as well. These characters aren't one dimensional or else the manga wouldn't have been as enjoyable IMO. When i read it i take every chapter into account on where the plot leads because it's relevant to the decisions these 4 main characters make.

As for re-routing the series you could obviously look at Popo's comparison posts, they're quite reasonable and easy to understand. Let me give you one prime example what Furhashi did that changed and misinterpreted Gon's character. In the 1999 series when Gon rescued the 3 from the cave Gon put Burbons tag on Ponzu's lap, he waited for Kurapika and Leorio to wake up. This time Ponzu was still asleep and Leorio was the one who ended up taking Ponzu's tag. In the manga/2011 version Gon was the one who stole it. Doesn't this little subtlety alone develop Gon in a different manner? Won't it contradict his personality when he comes across situations as these? Gon's mom isn't confirmed dead either, which is another contradiction that the 1999 series has. Don't get me wrong i fell in love when i watched the 1999 series, but than when i read the manga my whole perspective of it changed. It's a good series but it made more plot holes than sealed them.

When I read the manga exam arc, I view the protagonists as kinda split in two groups most of the time - Kurapica/Reorio and Gon interaction on one side, Killua and Gon interaction on the other. While the 3rd exam was team effort, Leorio was pretty dismissive of Killua's existence, while Kurapica was somewhat scared of him. I don't deny that Kurapica and Leorio's desire to help Gon was a reason for saving Killua, but the hallucination tree event gave them more solid reason to do so as well as made Reorio's character more convincing. So to me it was a well arranged filler that positively reinforced the original storyline rather than detract from it.

Now some first time watchers this week on other forums commented that they thought Killua's desire to be friends with Gon this week was random, especially when Killua was acting cold towards Gon during the Hanzo fight. To some, Togashi had created a plot hole here, while this hole is somewhat filled by the Anita incidence in the 1999 version, hence why I don't hate that filler as much as some manga fans too. Killua's internal struggle re his strong desire to be Gon's friend vs his insecurities about whether a former assasin can be a good friend is a recurring theme throughout the manga until he finally pulls out the needle in his head. The Anita incidence just introduce that struggle earlier, so I don't see how it reroutes or contradict Killua's later character development and it makes his expression to Ilumi of his desire to make friends less random.

Re taking Ponzu's tag, I think you are trying to say the 1999 version wrongly paints Gon in a more righteous light, but if he really want to be righteous he would have told off Reorio later for taking the tag or made him return it, but he didn't. So he was still willing to see his friend pass at the expense of Ponzu, just like he was willing to let a stranger die so he can steal Hisoka's badge. Gon taking the tag himself would have been more cheeky, but I don't see how this change alters his persona in any major way.

The 2011 version also has its share of changes in filling plot holes, such as Killua switching the tags. I always thought it was weird that a high-class ninja like Hanzo would make the mistake of chasing the wrong tag so the 2011 version gave me a satisfactory explaination, a good example where the animators thought of something clever that Togashi didn't. People shouldn't act like the original manga is so flawless and perfect that every change to it should be frawned upon. You don't have to be 100% exactly the same as the manga to be a faithful adaptation, otherwise there is no point in watching the anime at all. Of course both versions have pointless filler that I can do without too such as the Gon long self-pity after Hisoka's punch and the up-drift in the 2nd exam.

Like I said before I don't expect nor do I want the 1999 version's filler to be recreated in the 2011 version, and equally find those people who trashes the 2011 version just because certain 1999 fillers weren't recreated annoying because they obviously haven't read the manga. But it also gets to me when people respond by saying the 1999 fillers were a downfall, meaningless or unfaithfull, because I felt a lot of them were very well arranged and served to enhance Togashi's story rather than contradict it. Of course I am just stating my personal opinion and is not forcing anyone to agree, and each week after I watch a 2011 episode, I re-read the same manga chapter and 1999 episode for comparison purposes as well. So yes, I do know the differences between the three versions well and can evaluate for myself what I thought each version did right or wrong. I have read some of Popo's comparison, but I don't have to agree with everything in there.

 

[Host Samurai]

STOP DOING THAT

Seriously this is NOT supposed to be the 1999 anime. So stop expecting it to be.
This 2011 series is meant to follow the manga. Have you ever read it? You should.

Look I don't expect everyone to like this version but if you're gonna complain
do so when it fails to follow the manga NOT when it doesn't follow the 1999
series which failed to follow the manga. I DON'T CARE THAT YOU THINK IT IS
THE BEST THING SINCE SLICED BREAD. THE 1999 SERIES FAILED TO FOLLOW
THE MANGA.

I agree with you to some extent. The manga is the source material but claiming that the original series completly failed to follow the manga, as you mentioned, that's not so and what's more you know it!

Well, Popo explains it with a lot of details in his comparisons. I now you read them.
But even if you don't go so much into detail, just look at Killua. He is a completely different character in the 1999 version. He is quiet, serious, and seems to have split personality.

That's what he is supposed to be in the early stage of the manga i.e. the Hunter exam. He had these mood changes, until the final phase of the exam, where he broke out of his shell for the first time and told Illumi about his desires (that's why he is a transformation user in the first place).

carnival?

anywho it's nice that one way or another HxH is getting more lively discussions.

Yeah, in Germany where I live in Northrhine Westphalia carnival turns out into a huge drinking festival. I've been drinking since thursday and I'm glad that I didn't wake up in a hospital. hahaha

As long as we have some healthy discussions it's alright with me. But this thread has already turned into 1999 vs 2011 thread it'll stay this way until the chimera ant arc.

 

[Uriel]

It will last until Ryodan Arc, I'm sure. That would be fun, though, since that's my favorite arc. This fights keeps the discussion going on and this forum needs more avid posters so I don't mind. I even like flame wars, but I can't allow them due being part of the staff.

Moderator Notice:
And please, people, I'll ask once more: DO NOT ASK TO OTHER PEOPLE TO STOP POSTING THEIR OPINIONS. It's their opinion, and they're valid. Sure, answer them as much as you can but you can't just say "If you don't like it, don't post" because that will lead to me deleting posts and getting all PMSing again.~ Uriel

 

[heron bpv]

@ankifeather:
Just to clarify, Hanzo did got the wrong tag in the manga, as you can see here.

 

[MegamanX195]

Honestly, I couldn't believe Kurapika VS Hisoka filler... it pretty much implied Kurapika with Red Eyes was = or close to Hisoka, which simply isn't true. If Kurapika was really that strong, Killua would be impressed and/or feel bad about being worse than him, since Hisoka is miles above him as he stated himself. Killua saw Kurapika w/ Red Eyes at Trick Tower and only whistled upon seeing his strenght. Remember, Killua got shocked because Gon got higher overall grades than him in the final exam. Of course, I only realized that after reading the manga.

And besides that, the fight just sucked. Kurapika was NEVER shown to rely on his weapons (whether they be bokken or actual katana swords). In fact, in the tower episode pretty much the opposite was implied: Kurapika most definitely did not care at all whether he was fighting with weapons or not. Hisoka's characterization was pretty weird... and it goes on. Also, unrelated, but the Gon/Illumi "fight" filler in the next episode... ugh.

Don't get me wrong, I absolutely love the old anime, and that's what got me into HxH in the first place, having watched it 3 and a half times. The thing is, the new anime and the manga are SO much better. The only thing I'm still deciding on is whether the manga or new anime is more enjoyable... I guess I'll find out by next arc.

 

[Sea Hunter]

nvm

 

[Popo]

When I read the manga exam arc, I view the protagonists as kinda split in two groups most of the time - Kurapica/Reorio and Gon interaction on one side, Killua and Gon interaction on the other. While the 3rd exam was team effort, Leorio was pretty dismissive of Killua's existence, while Kurapica was somewhat scared of him. I don't deny that Kurapica and Leorio's desire to help Gon was a reason for saving Killua, but the hallucination tree event gave them more solid reason to do so as well as made Reorio's character more convincing. So to me it was a well arranged filler that positively reinforced the original storyline rather than detract from it.

But you're ignoring something else about the relationships during that arc--Kurapika goes to save Leorio only a few hours into the First Phase when they aren't supposed to be friends yet; Kurapika doesn't actually like Leorio until he finds out his true goals. But Kurapika and Gon stay behind for him in episode 6 of the 1999 series when they should be prioritizing the Exam. That makes the characterization significantly different.

Furuhashi ties everything back into friendship. He has the protagonists bond closely much faster in his adaptation and mostly keeps their relationship that way. But in Togashi's Hunter x Hunter, the protagonists struggle to stay friends.

Now some first time watchers this week on other forums commented that they thought Killua's desire to be friends with Gon this week was random, especially when Killua was acting cold towards Gon during the Hanzo fight. To some, Togashi had created a plot hole here, while this hole is somewhat filled by the Anita incidence in the 1999 version, hence why I don't hate that filler as much as some manga fans too. Killua's internal struggle re his strong desire to be Gon's friend vs his insecurities about whether a former assasin can be a good friend is a recurring theme throughout the manga until he finally pulls out the needle in his head. The Anita incidence just introduce that struggle earlier, so I don't see how it reroutes or contradict Killua's later character development and it makes his expression to Ilumi of his desire to make friends less random.

It's not a plothole. Killua wants to understand why Gon is so special. Viewers of the 2011 series have significantly less access to Killua's thoughts and emotions; I think that's key. In the 1999 series, you learn that Killua isn't a "bad" kid by episode 12. Furuhashi goes through extreme lengths to show this throughout the series by making Killua feel bad about his actions (and preventing him from killing those random applicants).

However, in the 2011 series and the manga, we're given a different picture. We know that Killua is a self-proclaimed liar and assassin that has no problem murdering people just for bumping into him. He's little different from Hisoka--he's certainly more violent in the ways that he kills. Kurapika and Leorio are wary of him because that's the side that they've seen of Killua. Their only real interaction with him is during the Third Phase, in which he pulls out the still-beating heart of a serial killer. Kurapika and Leorio aren't supposed to like Killua until this moment--when he states his true intentions for the first time.

You have a misconception about Killua's internal struggle though. In the manga and 2011 series, he's tired of his overbearing family forcing him to do things that he doesn't want to do. Killua isn't concerned with whether or not killing is "good" or "bad," only that he's tired of doing it and that he wants to be a normal kid. But the 1999 series adds self-loathing into the mix--Killua in the 1999 series is someone who is interested in making a "moral" change because he thinks that killing is a "bad thing."

Re taking Ponzu's tag, I think you are trying to say the 1999 version wrongly paints Gon in a more righteous light, but if he really want to be righteous he would have told off Reorio later for taking the tag or made him return it, but he didn't. So he was still willing to see his friend pass at the expense of Ponzu, just like he was willing to let a stranger die so he can steal Hisoka's badge. Gon taking the tag himself would have been more cheeky, but I don't see how this change alters his persona in any major way.

By having Gon leave Ponzu with her own badge, it only perpetuates the idea Furuhashi has about Gon being an incessantly "good kid." Gon isn't righteous, though. He's not a hero. He's a flawed character just like everyone else in the series. I find him more likable when he makes mistakes rather than having him be perfect all the time.

Like I said before I don't expect nor do I want the 1999 version's filler to be recreated in the 2011 version, and equally find those people who trashes the 2011 version just because certain 1999 fillers weren't recreated annoying because they obviously haven't read the manga. But it also gets to me when people respond by saying the 1999 fillers were a downfall, meaningless or unfaithfull, because I felt a lot of them were very well arranged and served to enhance Togashi's story rather than contradict it. Of course I am just stating my personal opinion and is not forcing anyone to agree, and each week after I watch a 2011 episode, I re-read the same manga chapter and 1999 episode for comparison purposes as well. So yes, I do know the differences between the three versions well and can evaluate for myself what I thought each version did right or wrong. I have read some of Popo's comparison, but I don't have to agree with everything in there.

Absolutely. I'm not asking everyone to agree with me, I'm mostly stating my findings whenever I do these comparisons.

I'm also not trying to say that people shouldn't watch the 1999 version--my point is that it isn't as accurate to the manga as it would have you believe it to be. I own all four boxsets on DVD too; I like the 1999 series. But as far as accuracy is concerned, the 2011 series is by and large closer to the manga.

and again, people are overplaying the significance of the differences between the 1999 series and the manga. the changes are so bloody minor, they're basically just nitpicking

besides, hxh isn't some rocket science. in many ways, it is a work of art, so not everything in the "system" has to add up. it is the viewing experience that matters more.

anyway i think i've vented and enough, this will be my last. episode 30 is my third favorite episode in the 1999 series (outside york shin), so i was just frustrated that people overlook all the things it did excellently just because of a few rather minor divergences from the manga.

I wouldn't say that I'm nitpicking--I'm showing how the two are different. Those differences aren't meant as an attack on the 1999 series, but rather to show how similarly or differently each animated series adapts the manga. Episode 30 is actually one of my favorites too.

The referee who Illumi throws needles at doesn't die. You can see him during the 1st round of the election for the 13th chairman.

Thanks for the heads up; I'll fix that. I assumed that he eventually died because half of his brain caves in, but I guess it makes sense that the Association would have someone to heal the refs.

 

[Noonealive]

@ankifeather Dude, it doesn't matter what the 1999 series did right, it still changed Togashi's story which will later affect the series as a whole. Look the mindset of kicking somebody while they're talking is the same as taking something while they're sleeping. Like i said these are subtle ways Togashi portrays his characters and if you choose to ignore them than so be it. Just because you think the manga has many plot holes doesn't mean anything because 1999 series made worse ones.

I never said you had to agree with any of Popo's comparisons, i just stated that they're reasonable and understandable. Anyways, in the end 1999 series made worse and contradictory development and worse plot holes and it's irrefutable fact that it did. You read the manga so you should be able to point them out on how bad they changed the story at some point specifically to the development of Gon and Ging. In the end it doesn't matter the 1999 series messed up big time.

 

[ankifeather]

It's not a plothole. Killua wants to understand why Gon is so special. Viewers of the 2011 series have significantly less access to Killua's thoughts and emotions; I think that's key. In the 1999 series, you learn that Killua isn't a "bad" kid by episode 12. Furuhashi goes through extreme lengths to show this throughout the series by making Killua feel bad about his actions (and preventing him from killing those random applicants).

However, in the 2011 series and the manga, we're given a different picture. We know that Killua is a self-proclaimed liar and assassin that has no problem murdering people just for bumping into him. He's little different from Hisoka--he's certainly more violent in the ways that he kills. Kurapika and Leorio are wary of him because that's the side that they've seen of Killua. Their only real interaction with him is during the Third Phase, in which he pulls out the still-beating heart of a serial killer. Kurapika and Leorio aren't supposed to like Killua until this moment--when he states his true intentions for the first time.

You have a misconception about Killua's internal struggle though. In the manga and 2011 series, he's tired of his overbearing family forcing him to do things that he doesn't want to do. Killua isn't concerned with whether or not killing is "good" or "bad," only that he's tired of doing it and that he wants to be a normal kid. But the 1999 series adds self-loathing into the mix--Killua in the 1999 series is someone who is interested in making a "moral" change because he thinks that killing is a "bad thing."

I think you have misconceived both what I said and what Furuhashi presented during the Anita incidence. I never said Killua struggled with whether "killing" was a bad or good. I said he struggled between his desire to befriend Gon and insecurities about whether he might betray Gon because he is a killer, since Illumi & his needle, Silva and Bisuke all hint so. He had no problem killing the one contestant that told him to shut up in the 1999 version. He let Anita go not because he viewed killing as a bad thing, but because he didn't want to displease Gon, he said so himself.

Never once did Furuhashi make Killua struggle with the morality of killing during the exam, if anything Killua loves threatening Tompa with death more. We can tell from Canary's memory that Killua has strong desires to make friends, and thus his desire to befriend Gon overcame his killer instincts to murder Anita. This resonates well with his later confession to Illumi that he prefers making friends with Gon over killing under his family's commands. So I don't see how the Anita incidence contradicts the manga greatly, it just revealed Killua's desire to befriend Gon earlier.

But you're ignoring something else about the relationships during that arc--Kurapika goes to save Leorio only a few hours into the First Phase when they aren't supposed to be friends yet; Kurapika doesn't actually like Leorio until he finds out his true goals. But Kurapika and Gon stay behind for him in episode 6 of the 1999 series when they should be prioritizing the Exam. That makes the characterization significantly different.

Furuhashi ties everything back into friendship. He has the protagonists bond closely much faster in his adaptation and mostly keeps their relationship that way. But in Togashi's Hunter x Hunter, the protagonists struggle to stay friends.

At that point in time, Kurapica and Leorio already went through three pre-exam tests together...that is already more interaction than they ever had with Killua throughout the exam arc. And in the manga Gon stopped and waited for leorio when he lagged behind too. Like you said, in the manga the protagonists did struggle to stay friends, so it feels random at times they haven't interacted deeply and the next thing they are risking their lives to save each other. Compared to later arcs where Togashi intricately carves out every character's thoughts, emotions and motivations when events unfold, the manga hunter exam arc felt a bit rushed and underdeveloped, and thus less intriguing to me. So I appreciated Furuhashi's effort to increase character interaction and thought process to make the story fuller without majorly changing the character's personality. People keep saying Furuhashi significantly changed the characters, but I personally don't really see it. Killua is frequently brought up, but he laughs and chat with Gon just like he did in the manga. Yes, he went a bit emo during the Anita incidence, but I don't see how chopping off two contestants head and sulking till daylight in the manga is any less emo. He is a transformer, so its not weird for him to have extreme mood swings.

I am not saying Furuhashi did everything right in the 1999 version, since I think he messed up the Heavens Arena Arc by changing order of events and the manga version of York Shin & GI were more intense & tight-packed. But he made the exam arc more intriguing and convincing to me that's all, hence why I see his direction choice for that arc as a positive.

Absolutely. I'm not asking everyone to agree with me, I'm mostly stating my findings whenever I do these comparisons.

I'm also not trying to say that people shouldn't watch the 1999 version--my point is that it isn't as accurate to the manga as it would have you believe it to be. I own all four boxsets on DVD too; I like the 1999 series. But as far as accuracy is concerned, the 2011 series is by and large closer to the manga.

I wouldn't say that I'm nitpicking--I'm showing how the two are different. Those differences aren't meant as an attack on the 1999 series, but rather to show how similarly or differently each animated series adapts the manga. Episode 30 is actually one of my favorites too.

You are absolutely correct in presenting the comparison and concluding that 2011 version is closer to the manga and what you believe are similarities and differences. Not you, but some fans have this notion that closer to manga = better as the manga will forever be better. It's ok if that is their opinion, but some state it like its a fact that cannot be overturned. I just don't necessarily agree with that mentality that's all. I've loved and followed Togashi since the YYH days, but if I feel an anime version presented the same sets of events in a better way, I am just giving where credits due. There are some events that I feel Furuhashi presented better (eg the exam arc in general), some parts that Togashi presented better (most of the later arcs) and some part that the 2011 version presented better (4th exam).

---------- Post added at 11:42 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:40 AM ----------

@ankifeather Dude, it doesn't matter what the 1999 series did right, it still changed Togashi's story which will later affect the series as a whole. Look the mindset of kicking somebody while they're talking is the same as taking something while they're sleeping. Like i said these are subtle ways Togashi portrays his characters and if you choose to ignore them than so be it. Just because you think the manga has many plot holes doesn't mean anything because 1999 series made worse ones.

I never said you had to agree with any of Popo's comparisons, i just stated that they're reasonable and understandable. Anyways, in the end 1999 series made worse and contradictory development and worse plot holes and it's irrefutable fact that it did. You read the manga so you should be able to point them out on how bad they changed the story at some point specifically to the development of Gon and Ging. In the end it doesn't matter the 1999 series messed up big time.

You just demonstrated what I meant by some fan's mentality of closer to manga = better because the manga will forever be better as an irrefutable fact. If you believe the 1999 version mess up big time and made worse plot holes, that is your opinion and I don't force you to think otherwise. Yes they got Gon's mother death wrong and I don't agree with changing the order of events in the Heavens Arena, but I feel the other filler choices during the exam arc close more plot holes, are not contradictory and I've given my reasons. That is my personal opinion and I've never stated it as otherwise, since everyone intereprets the manga differently. Neither opinion is an irrefutable fact, and I have manga-reading friends that agree with me as well as ones that don't. In the end, there are three versions of the story now, the manga and the two anime, and there will be times when I feel one version of story-telling exceeds the other, and is under no obligation to always accept the manga one as the better or unflawed version. That doesn't make me less of a Togashi fan or manga reader.

 

[mrsticky005]

I agree with you to some extent. The manga is the source material but claiming that the original series completly failed to follow the manga, as you mentioned, that's not so and what's more you know it!



That's what he is supposed to be in the early stage of the manga i.e. the Hunter exam. He had these mood changes, until the final phase of the exam, where he broke out of his shell for the first time and told Illumi about his desires (that's why he is a transformation user in the first place).



Yeah, in Germany where I live in Northrhine Westphalia carnival turns out into a huge drinking festival. I've been drinking since thursday and I'm glad that I didn't wake up in a hospital. hahaha

As long as we have some healthy discussions it's alright with me. But this thread has already turned into 1999 vs 2011 thread it'll stay this way until the chimera ant arc.

Of course the original series followed the manga. The original series IS the manga and the manga IS the original series.
The 1999 anime is an adaptation just as the 2011 version is. They both are from the same source material (the manga)
but are not related to one another. Meaning they are independent series. You don't need to know anything about
the other to enjoy the series.

Yeah, I was being harsh there. More the point is that the 2011 series is more accurate regardless of what we prefer.

 

[Noonealive]

----------[/SIZE]

You just demonstrated what I meant by some fan's mentality of closer to manga = better because the manga will forever be better as an irrefutable fact. If you believe the 1999 version mess up big time and made worse plot holes, that is your opinion and I don't force you to think otherwise. Yes they got Gon's mother death wrong and I don't agree with changing the order of events in the Heavens Arena, but I feel the other filler choices during the exam arc close more plot holes, are not contradictory and I've given my reasons. That is my personal opinion and I've never stated it as otherwise, since everyone intereprets the manga differently. Neither opinion is an irrefutable fact, and I have manga-reading friends that agree with me as well as ones that don't. In the end, there are three versions of the story now, the manga and the two anime, and there will be times when I feel one version of story-telling exceeds the other, and is under no obligation to always accept the manga one as the better or unflawed version. That doesn't make me less of a Togashi fan or manga reader.

You just demonstrated the mentality of 1999 series is better than the manga. Obviously we are on different sides of the spectrum. What i mean as irrefutable fact is Gons Mom isn't related to Mito, Mito is in fact related to Ging. Ging brought Gon for Mito to take care of him, which is a big part of the each persons development. Right than and there the 1999 series made it's biggest flaw IMO. It might be good in your opinion to switch the characters portrayal but its a different story entirely if you change the whole view of how a person grew up because later on in the story things are gonna happen that are going to contradict those things. The manga IMO isn't flawed as bad as you make it out to be. Watching the 1999 series doesn't make me less of a fan of HxH either. You critique the manga, i critique the 1999 series. We both think theres flaws when it comes to the both of them. Neither one of them is perfect or better. It's just our opinion in the end.