Chapter Hunter x Hunter Chapter 399 Spoilers & Discussion

SamsaNeki · Dec 15, 2022

Demonspeed said:
There is no contradiction.

Don't see why you think of their abilities as "complicated". They are made according to their Nen Categories. Contagion allows them to develop a fitting ability quickly.

Doesn't matter if an ability is basic or not, it has to fit the user and usually Enhancers's ability are pretty simple and effective(has been described as the most balanced category and overall better for combat). Killua's ability to give his Aura electric properties impresses people because he can do that at his young age.

They aren't skilled at using Nen, they developed their abilities because they reached the required level and are following the advices of the expert(Morena) for conditions and stuff. Nothing we have seen shows that they are skilled.

Besides the ability Contagion only allows them to raise their Aura Volume. They aren't skilled at controlling Aura itself and don't have much experience.

Exactly, we never saw them (I think) using skills like Ko, In or even Zetsu. Only their hatsu...

BigMoneySalvia · Dec 15, 2022

If anyone in Morena’s crew had to face Killua 1. one-on-one and 2. out in the open, he could finish anyone with ease.
But the big thing about this whole arc is that 1. they “fight” in groups and 2. they can lure people into their territory full of traps.

And i put quotation marks around “fight” because it’s not like the hand-to-hand combat we’ve seen throughout the series but it’s more about how to set up the right “rules” and “conditions” to beat your opponent.
I don’t think Togashi is interested in writing about one-on-one power contests anymore (Meruem vs. Netero was the pinnacle of that).

Demonspeed · Dec 15, 2022

SamsaNeki said:
Exactly, we never saw them (I think) using skills like Ko, In or even Zetsu. Only their hatsu...

I don't think they can't use some of them BTW. Morena probably taught them some basics. But their Aura control speed, stamina etc can't be good.

Contagion is just "quick and dirty". It's not perfect or anything.

Toby_Temple · Dec 15, 2022

Most of them are less "skillful", yes. But if Contagion gives nen abilities that fit the individual, them someone who is fit for combat will get one for it. So it is safe to assume that there are among of Morena's "players" who are good at combat with matching nen ability.

Those "players" on the table may look like scrubs but they send off Nobu and Henry with ease. Maybe they know they were coming and planned for it. Maybe not. But they demonstrated themselves to be skillful enough to do that. Granted, Nobu and Henry are in their stage and they did not go all out.

Now, we also have to assume that level 40 and up "players" maybe way better at nen team coop than those whom Nobu and Henry encountered.

shionoro · Dec 15, 2022

McNuss said:
The point is, it is a little contradictory that novices can come up with such comlicated skills, meanwhile Nen geniuses like Gon and Killua can only come up with the most basic Hatsu out of their category.

It's actually outright nonsense compared to previously established rules. Like even if you become a Nen user and gain massive aura through Contagion, where comes the skill of using aura from? Gon and Killua were trained by a double star Hunter (Biscuit) after already learning Nen through Wing, and still remained scrubs that could only beat a rather average guy (compared to Biscuit/Hisoka/Razor) like Genthru with a dedicated plan.

Could anyone imagine Shachimono Tottino stopping the Phantom Troupe at the Auction House? He's been a Nen user longer than any of these guys...

Genthru is not an average guy. Genthru would can trash most Nenusers, a single Star Hunter like Tzezguerra didnt want to fight him Head on. Its Biscuit, Razor and Hisoka who are just on another level, even compared to most spider.
Killua and Gon being able to beat Genthru (even tho gon was still a little weaker than him and won by strategy) means that they were starting to be high level Nenusers on Greed island. They were not good enough yet to be on netero's strike team, but they were close enough to get there with some additional training.

Morena's followers are not anywhere close to that. There is a big difference between being able to create a neat ability and being a high level Nenusers. These are not completely disconnected, but they are not equivalent either.
Kurapika's mafia team had some pretty annoying abilities. Baise can manipulate people with just a kiss, Basho's ability also seems pretty sophisticated. Yet they were not ligh level Nenusers at that point. Baise just died to franklin's bullets and that has nothing to do with manipulatosr just being weak (elseways it would be easy to kill Illumi).
Low level Nenusrs can have strong, annoying abilities.

And it makes sense for them to go for that if they work in a team. For martial artists like gon and kil it does not make sense to lock themselves into a hatsu too quickly. Kastro did that mistake, creating a hatsu that hurt him ont he long run (even tho he made it work). That is why Gon and Kil learned their Hatsu much later than kurapika. Both Wing and Biscuit thought basics come first to really unleash their potenial. That is Wing taught them ten, ren, zetsu before hatsu (water test) and biscuit taught them shu, ko, ryu and Ken before training their hatsus to be actually useful.

As a martial artist, you need to actually very carefully create a hatsu that makes sense in fighting conditions, which is so versatile that it applies to many conditions and so close to you that you will never be unable to perform it (unlike kastro). And you only get that insight after being a high level nenuser already.

For people like morena's followers or people like kortopi, that does not apply. They are not fighters, they start using their hatsus without training such as biscuits, because their abilities are meant for special circumstances.

Morena's followers have morena as a gudie about what abilities to create. It does not matter if they create something that is a little too much for them (like kastro) as long as they can make it work. Using oath and limitation (like kurapika did to very quickly get a very strong hatsu) or working as a team makes absolute sense for them. They are not anywhere close to being skilled Nenusers in an actual nenfight, but they are not martial artists who have to care about being prepared for everything. They are prepared for the task at hand and create their ablities accordingly, just for these few moments.
Someone like Gon would never choose a limitation like "i can only use this ability in morena's room and only after i accused by opponent of breaking the law", but someone like morena's follower can gain just enough strength to escort someone as strong as nobu out of the room.

There is no esstablished law of nen being broken here. It just seems that way because this arc shifts from martial artists who used Nen for other purposes towards Agents/Soldiers.

Kanmuru · Dec 15, 2022

McNuss said:
The point is, it is a little contradictory that novices can come up with such comlicated skills, meanwhile Nen geniuses like Gon and Killua can only come up with the most basic Hatsu out of their category.

It's actually outright nonsense compared to previously established rules. Like even if you become a Nen user and gain massive aura through Contagion, where comes the skill of using aura from? Gon and Killua were trained by a double star Hunter (Biscuit) after already learning Nen through Wing, and still remained scrubs that could only beat a rather average guy (compared to Biscuit/Hisoka/Razor) like Genthru with a dedicated plan.

Could anyone imagine Shachimono Tottino stopping the Phantom Troupe at the Auction House? He's been a Nen user longer than any of these guys...

Gon and Kill are geniuses in raw skill and potential they don't need an ability with 100 conditions and rules. They just needed 1 (in 4 days) to get to G.I.
You need to remember that your hatsu is up to your imagination (plus enviroment/life circumstances). You can create the most complex hatsu in the world and still be bad in a real case scenario (Cheetuh)
Gon is basically a monkey so he gets the most basic hatsu of them all. Complicated hatsu doesn't mean mastery of NEN. Heck, Bungee Gum is such a simple ability yet TOP TIER in combat

Simple hatsu ≠ Bad
Complicated hatsu ≠ Nen mastery

ShijimaTheSilentMan · Dec 15, 2022

Toby_Temple said:
Most of them are less "skillful", yes. But if Contagion gives nen abilities that fit the individual, them someone who is fit for combat will get one for it. So it is safe to assume that there are among of Morena's "players" are good at combat with matching nen ability.

Those "players" on the table may look like scrubs but they send off Nobu and Henry with ease. Maybe they know they were coming and planned for it. Maybe not. But they demonstrated themselves to be skillful enough to do that. Granted, Nob and Henry are in their stage and they did not went all out.

Now, we also have to assume that level 40 and up "players" maybe way better at nen team coop than those whom Nobu and Henry encountered.

It seems as though by the last panel they were banished from the hideout or they might as well have left on their own since the transmitter was placed there. I think it's been done now they know more about the skill of some members and they can be regrouped.

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 15, 2022, Original Post Date: Dec 15, 2022 ---

Now the next chapter will focus on Kurapika and I really want it to end with some hyper.

shionoro · Dec 15, 2022

Kanmuru said:
Gon and Kill are geniuses in raw skill and potential they don't need an ability with 100 conditions and rules. They just needed 1 (in 4 days) to get to G.I.
You need to remember that your hatsu is up to your imagination (plus enviroment/life circumstances). You can create the most complex hatsu in the world and still be bad in a real case scenario (Cheetuh)
Gon is basically a monkey so he gets the most basic hatsu of them all. Complicated hatsu doesn't mean mastery of NEN. Heck, Bungee Gum is such a simple ability yet TOP TIER in combat

Simple hatsu ≠ Bad
Complicated hatsu ≠ Nen mastery

Yeah, Cheetuh and Hisoka are good examples.
The Ortho twins would also come to mind. Had a pretty strong hatsu, but were absolutely horrible Nenusers.

Someone like Toccino could probably transit into being as strong as morel if he became a high level Nenusers. But Morel was able to use his smoke freely over vast amount of distance and knew many ways about how to use his puppets.
Toccino could only create puppets close to him, they were even more basic than morel's and even weaker. Someone like Toccino did not suffer from having a weaker ability than morel in theory, he suffered from not having the amount of Nen to back it up and extend its limits.

That is not true for Yokitani. He has the amount of Nen required for his ability because he killed enough people. He also used a limitation (unlike toccino) that is very severe:

1) He can ONLY use his ability at morena's hideout.
2) He has to identify himself to the intruder and the intruder has to break the law for it to work (so attack first)
3) The guards cannot harm the intruder but also cannot be harmed by the intruder.

This ability only works because many special circumstances (including morena's ability) came to place.

Toby_Temple · Dec 15, 2022

What I am seeing now is that the other mafia groups are basically teaming up with PT to defeat Morena. So we can say she is in deed formidable. The whole situation is basically her setup.

I am now hyped as to what Nobu, Phinks and Feitan are going to do after all the information :zomg

! Then again, I hope Phinks and Feitan will be waiting for Nobu and Henry. Or were they also doing a recon/hunting of other Heily members?

ShijimaTheSilentMan · Dec 15, 2022

Aeneas said:
Not afaik. Either him wanting to reuse a title or him forgetting he's used it already. : P

And the 399 title is 退去, so it's different from 359 (出航).

In the end what would the title be? TheHxHSource even deleted the tweet.

shionoro · Dec 15, 2022

Toby_Temple said:
What I am seeing now is that the other mafia groups are basically teaming up with PT to defeat Morena. So we can say she is in deed formidable. The whole situation is basically her setup.

I am now hyped as to what Nobu, Phinks and Feitan are going to do after all the information ! Then again, I hope Phinks and Feitan will be waiting for Nobu and Henry. Or were they also doing a recon/hunting of other Heily members?

I talked about balance before. The Mafia especially wants balance, but generally in the world of HxH, people who bring instability or deemed as a threat. Morena teaches Nen to random people and if they succeed, they are going to train hundreds or thousands of nenusers who all want to destroy the world. It makes sense to erase them as quickly as possible, elseways the boat (and later the world) is going to end up in chaos.

For the spider, that does not matter a lot, but even if Morena herself was weak, the trouble she might bring is so big that the other two mafia would instantly team up.

Aeneas · Dec 15, 2022

ShijimaTheSilentMan said:
In the end what would the title be? TheHxHSource even deleted the tweet.

We're going with "Expulsion".

Toby_Temple · Dec 15, 2022

I'll go with "Evicted" :3c

Halimaw · Dec 15, 2022

Toby_Temple said:
I'll go with "Evicted"

"Big Brother!! :cheez

Demonspeed · Dec 15, 2022

BigMoneySalvia said:
If anyone in Morena’s crew had to face Killua 1. one-on-one and 2. out in the open, he could finish anyone with ease.
But the big thing about this whole arc is that 1. they “fight” in groups and 2. they can lure people into their territory full of traps.

And i put quotation marks around “fight” because it’s not like the hand-to-hand combat we’ve seen throughout the series but it’s more about how to set up the right “rules” and “conditions” to beat your opponent.
I don’t think Togashi is interested in writing about one-on-one power contests anymore (Meruem vs. Netero was the pinnacle of that).

I don't know where that idea that Togashi doesn't like one on one came from. The context here is simply different. Although I liked Netero VS Meruem it's not really something I would consider the pinnacle of one on one battle. But that's subective of course.

Toby_Temple said:
Most of them are less "skillful", yes. But if Contagion gives nen abilities that fit the individual, them someone who is fit for combat will get one for it. So it is safe to assume that there are among of Morena's "players" who are good at combat with matching nen ability.

Those "players" on the table may look like scrubs but they send off Nobu and Henry with ease. Maybe they know they were coming and planned for it. Maybe not. But they demonstrated themselves to be skillful enough to do that. Granted, Nobu and Henry are in their stage and they did not go all out.

Now, we also have to assume that level 40 and up "players" maybe way better at nen team coop than those whom Nobu and Henry encountered.

Fit for combat against normal people and fit for combat against Nen Users are different things though. Of course there are some who have good combat abilities but their skills at using Nen are still going to be bad. They would need a high level and an opportunity to deal a fatal blow to their opponents. Dogman for example isn't going to fight evenly with the likes of Nobu/Fei/Phinks just because he has a good combat ability.

The duo of this chapters works well together but Yokotani's ability is very restrictive. Terebellum's ability at least is balanced.

The whole group must have a good synergy ability-wise. Seeing Gelato(Pro Gamer) and Souffle(Transmuter-Programmer) together I am curious to see what Togashi came up with. Especially if the former turned out to be a Conjurer.

Toby_Temple · Dec 15, 2022

Demonspeed said:
Fit for combat against normal people and fit for combat against Nen Users are different things though. Of course there are some who have good combat abilities but their skills at using Nen are still going to be bad. They would need a high level and an opportunity to deal a fatal blow to their opponents. Dogman for example isn't going to fight evenly with the likes of Nobu/Fei/Phinks just because he has a good combat ability.

That is true. But it still allows for a creation of an ability for a skilled martial artist that will make him/her effective at fighting against more experienced Nen users. That is within plausibility in HxH universe and most likely with Morena since what she has created is more akin to a rpg guild. So there will be carry/offense, tank and support (defense).

Demonspeed said:
The duo of this chapters works well together but Yokotani's ability is very restrictive. Terebellum's ability at least is balanced.

I agree. I think Terebellum's ability is perfect as support for a carry/offense "player".

Demonspeed said:
The whole group must have a good synergy ability-wise. Seeing Gelato(Pro Gamer) and Souffle(Transmuter-Programmer) together I am curious to see what Togashi came up with. Especially if the former turned out to be a Conjurer.

Yes. And that is why I think that they are formidable.