HxH Tournament Fights Thread

[Tenacious Weezy]

Re: Hisoka vs. Feitan

Well if I had to be fair and logical the point of this tournament is to decide things with logical facts and examples instead of guessing or hyping a character up. Based on what we've seen thus far Feitan is the stronger of the two all around. I've read up on HxH a little for this fight and Hisoka is the 3rd strongest physically (compared to 5th for Feitan) but this doesn't mean he is the stronger fighter. They are both strong and fast and very versatile but based on Nen ability alone Feitan is the winner. I honestly believe up until the point where Feitan unleashes pain packer the fight is very even. Pain packer is such a cheat it's almost ridiculous but at the same time that is what separates him from the other spiders and thats why he's the De facto leader currently. Hisoka may have skipped over the other spiders not because he thought they were weaker than him but he was more interested in the strength and ability a person would have to have to control that many "Hisoka" (as stated in the manga) like beings. It's a bit of speculation but it's obvious that the top 3 or 4 including Uvogin would have challenged Hisoka evenly. I see nothing that points directly to Hisoka winning outright so I vote Feitan due to his Pain packer.

 

[NoFreakingWay]

Re: Yupi vs. Illumi

I actually disagree that Yupi has much more to offer I see him as no more than brute force unparareled so far that's for sure.. but and has in regard to what you also said about meryem tail whip, a battle between nen users does not mean that one who has the thoughest body or stronger punches wins that's the point in what I assume Illumi has much more to offer...

Also I don't get why people keep on tending to Gon adult state has something like God-like it was cool and powerful alright but people make it seem like he could defeat anyone with that, and that is kind of absurd.
Do keep in mind what killua said about it also "At what cost to use such ability" (or something like that )meaning Gon probably done something like Kurapica I presume and pledged something to gain extra power..

Well, I'm sorry to tell you that you have failed to see something else for sure. It's already in the manga, just re-read it. Yupi's not all about brute force, he's flexible for various battle situations. He has evolved and not simply transformed into something else, because with each of those transformations, there is a certain line of thinking attached that improved on the former. The first form was just something that completely encapsulated what people thought of him: he was just pure strength, and that if he could hit these guys just once they'd all die, so he'll just spam attacks until they land. The second was an honest, but failed, attempt to keep up with his smarter opponents: he experimented with power-drawback relations of advanced or very strong nen-abilities. It was a trial-and-error process from which he learned a lot. He would then use what he just learned to move on to the third transformation: a form which is streamlined to dominate without ever giving a chance to his enemies. He gained enough speed to sweep through a lot of opponents even when he was taking them down one by one. And he even had a mass-destruction firearm for special cases. His mind sharpened and focused to that degree, because of his intense will to serve the King. A far cry from the first incarnation we saw. In a battle that lasted only about 40 minutes against guys with a lot of collective wisdom and experience, he surely could have been defeated if he stayed the same. But no. He totally adapted to the odds stacked against him, and he shined through.

How in the hell would Illumi handle anything that can evolve (and not simply transform) in battle and would nullify his needles and probably every offensive attempt he could deliver? Please tell me. Is there any strategy (let's say strategy can beat Yupi, when that didn't even happen in the actual manga) he could muster aside from bringing along a Rose or enlisting the aid of Knuckle and Meleoron or Uber Gon? And what of this assumption that Illumi can offer more than what Yupi has shown? Can you enlighten me as to how Illumi can do it? In my recollection, humans require at least a year to come up with something new. You're telling me Illumi could come up with something on the spot that could take down Yupi? Does it matter anyway? Can it even affect Yupi by any chance? I used the Meryem Tail-whip example to demonstrate how those needles won''t penetrate Yupi's skin. Any counter to that beside random speculation? Something concrete, perhaps? The only thing I see that has a chance of doing something to Yupi was Potclean, and that even took too long to do anything against Yupi. Do you mean Illumi has something like the aforementioned, Kurapika's abilities or Uber Gon's strength or something like that?

As I've said, what matters for tournaments like these are things we have already seen in the manga. If people keep saying that characters can come up with something we haven't seen that could kill a very strong opponent, then even Zoochi can fricking beat Meryem at this point. It's important we work on something that we could actually use to discuss anything effectively, and we must also make sure we have an accurate interpretation of the techniques.

----

Gon's adult state IS GODLIKE. He's a Demigod in that form. He nulls each and every nen-user and their respective nen-abilities and experience in that form that doesn't take into consideration the new Meryem. He can kill people before they even launch their attack.

The sacrifice is what warrants it to be godlike. It hasn't been confirmed yet, but it seems the consequence would be the inability to use nen. But what makes Uber Gon more godlike is the other thing: that only a very few special people can actually pull this sacrifice off. If Pokkle used the same restrictions the result would never come close to what we saw in Gon.

----
(slightly off-topic, part of the response to Diablos' statement)

It's odd that a lot of people hadn't already understood the idea behind the Chimera Ant arc.

The idea that "a battle between nen users does not mean that one who has the thoughest body or stronger punches wins" can only apply amongst humans and the lower-level Chimera Ants. The King and his Royal Guards are exceptions to this.

Look at how the important parts of the grand plan fell apart. Morau let Pufu go despite strict orders not to let him free. If the man hadn't done so, chances are higher that Knuckle would have inflicted Yupi with Toritaten, and wouldn't be at Meryem's side. Meryem wouldn't have had his powerup. What gave the Chimera Ants the win was their "thoughest body and stronger punches" indeed. Just think: if they didn't have the thick hides all three Royal Guards would have been killed by their King and it would have been easier for the hunters to kill him. If it weren't for their immense nen Novu would have still been actively participating in the game by not being scared sh@tless, and Toritaten would have been activated earlier for the win over Yupi. It's all so clear: brute strength this time overcame finesse, experience, and teamwork. How the heck did people get so stuck the latter-arc optimistic battle philosophies when it's all shown that this wouldn't work this time anymore? And there was another message: brute force can sometimes only be defeated by brute force. The Chimera Ant arc is one of those times. Examples? Uber Gon and Rose. How did anyone miss all of this again?

The Chimera Arc has shown us that planning, experience, and exotic nen-abilities can only take you so far. It has shown us that some battles require us to defeat the enemy through brute force (Rose and Uber Gon) and ultimate sacrifices (Netero, Gon) to even have a chance at winning.

 

[NoFreakingWay]

Re: Hisoka vs. Feitan

Feitan wins this one. It would have to come to Feitan using Pain Packer, which even had the other Ryodan running for their lives. I don't think Hisoka can survive that one and I don't think Hisoka can kill Feitan outright before the latter can use it.

 

[konfuzed]

Re: Yupi vs. Illumi

"
...
The Chimera Arc has shown us that planning, experience, and exotic nen-abilities can only take you so far. It has shown us that some battles require us to defeat the enemy through brute force (Rose and Uber Gon) and ultimate sacrifices (Netero, Gon) to even have a chance at winning. "

To me the "slightly off-topic" part of the post is on-topic and ultimately very relevant to this and other fights, because whether the Royal guards as a whole are meant to have strength won't be overcome, or whether they are beatable by top human nen users in a fair fight is a major sticking point in this and any other individual matchup with a Royal Guard in it.

The Pufu/Morau part of what you were saying is actually sort of complicated. Pufu said that Morau would've defeated him if he hadn't let go of jailhouse rock, and that he was prepared to face that fact because of how splendid Morau's aura was. He also didn't choose to fight him directly, which would've been the logical thing to do if Royal Guards were better than top hunters. When Morau eventually released Pufu from Jailhouse Rock, he was taunting Morau and saying he completely overestimated him and that he made a mistake. But later, the narrator said something different. It said that it's true that Morau was quite weakened and because of that he got impatient, but then it went on to say that even though he gave up his chance to defeat Pufu, his timing to let it go was actually perfect because it was the only way to prevent a 1 vs 1 encounter between Knuckle and Yupi, and that he made that call because if his vast experience instead of random chance. In other words, Pufu said that weakened Morau would've killed him, but the narrator clarified that Morau gave up that chance to save Knuckle's life.

There are humans who can easily compete with the Royal Guards, like Netero, who flicked Pito away like he was an ant and even battered the king for quite some time. He said that Pito, Morau, and Novu are all about as strong as he is. But the best ants outnumbered the best humans by one, so Netero had to fight the nearly-invincible King, and that left three ants for Novu and Morau. Novu had the right level of strength, but breaks mentally when facing a power that can kill him, so he simply didn't fight. Morau fought very well for a very long time, but he was very weakened from doing too much, and he was forced to give up his technique that would've led to Pufu's death because he was weakened, mentally strained, and wanted to save Knuckle's life. If the Royal guards were actually better fighters than the top hunters, there would've been no reason to structure the story this way so the royal guards never had the chance to beat the top hunters in a remotely fair fight. If the best few ants (royal guards) were better on the whole in terms of fighting ability, Togashi would've had no need to choose to weaken Morau so much or take Novu out of the equation, or to make the strongest ants outnumber the strongest hunters by one. He could have had the ants defeat Morau and Novu in a fair fight, but he intentionally didn't. Even 35% Morau was going to kill Pufu, who wouldn't even attempt to kill him when he was trapped. Yupi never fought Netero or Novu, and by the time he fought Morau, he was missing his pipe and so pitifully weakened it was surely no contest. The ants can be defeated by top nen users, of that I'm quite confident.

But this fight, Illumi vs Yupi, is different in my opinion. Nen users can beat royal guards, but not very many nen users. The big difference here is that I don't think Illumi has actually demonstrated that he is on the Netero/Novu/Morau/Royal Guard level of fighting ability. He may very well do so later, but I haven't seen anything he's done or comments from other character that makes me think he's quite in the same league with those top hunters/royal guards. His elders may be, but I don't believe he is. Based on the knowledge we have, I think it's much more reasonable to say that Yupi would win. He has more raw power than anybody else we've seen save the King and Adult Gon, and his explosions, transformations, and relentless attacks are very difficult to deal with. He even has enough nen to keep it all up for a VERY long time. He uses nen in absurd excess, but he can afford to for quite some time because he has so much of it. Illumi's only chance would be if his needle attacks could somehow pierce the skin and manipulate Yupi into doing something suicidal like going into zetsu. But we haven't seen Illumi in a real fight that tells us about what he can do, or even had a character say much about what he can do, so that's not a strong argument in my opinion. In other words, Illumi might be able to beat Yupi, but we don't yet have information to reasonably say that he would probably defeat Yupi.

 

[konfuzed]

Re: Hisoka vs. Feitan

I'm a huge fan of both of these characters. Hisoka is one of my top few favorites, and Feitan is probably about my 5 or 6. But I only see a few reasons Feitan might lose.

A) He is for some reason unable to use Pain packer, and outmatched in terms of general fighting ability (Like if a faster version of Knuckle used Potclean)

B) His opponent can kill him in a single blow instead of damaging him slowly, avoiding Pain Packer (Like if Ubougin landed his Big Bang directly on Feitan's face for some reason)

C) His opponent has a defense strong enough to withstand Pain Packer (Mereum)

or

D) His opponent has a way to force Feitan to miss
(Like maybe if Killua shot away super fast, or somebody digs underground, or goes invisible like Meloreon, or creates a decoy that Feitan falls for.)

Simply put, in my opinion I don't think any of these apply. Therefore I believe that Feitan would probably win. It would take a masterful use of deceitful texture to fool Feitan, or a crazy magic trick that moves quickly him out of the way, or some sort of super-deadly technique that we haven't seen for Hisoka to win.

 

[Wowzers]

Re: Yupi vs. Illumi

Not much time left to get your vote in. The poll will close in a few hours.

 

[zelllogan]

Re: Hisoka vs. Feitan

Solution D) can easily apply. Hisoka can use his bungee gum to slightly move feitan's position when he is doing his pain packer. I don't think Hisoka could move Feitan the same way he did with Gon but I think he still can move Feitan enough to make him miss.

Plus, I don't remember exactly the dialog between Nobunaga & Karuto in Greed Island but I think it was stated that Hisoka had senses at a level higher than Genei Ryodan.

The dialog was something like this:

Karuto: Was my zetsu not perfect ?
Nobunaga: No, it's just that his senses are ...

My vote is for Hisoka

 

[kkck]

Re: Hisoka vs. Feitan

Wonder how bungee gum would work against pain packer. Would it burn or something of the sort? If it does not burn then hisoka has an interesting advantage. Pain packer drains feitan. In that sense if the attack misses for some reason he would be left at hisoka's mercy. Every punch and block hisoka uses could be used to get the gum on feitan. I think hisoka could win by gluing feitan to the ground using his gum and simply running away when feitain is about to use his techniques. I give this to hisoka for no real logical reason, I just would find it outright strange for hisoka to lose here.

 

[konfuzed]

Re: Hisoka vs. Feitan

You know, at first I thought bungee gum would be destroyed and pain packer would be took big for hisoka to dodge, but now that I think about it, I don't think we really see transformation type moves be destroyed much... they're really just the user's transformed aura given a few extra qualities. Feitan's sun pain packer is huge and hard to dodge though, and he has many other versions apparently. He'll know about the gum, and if he has one that's suitable to not miss with he'll surely use it. But we've only seen the sun version, which actually might miss if bungee gum stays intact, because Hisoka is factually stronger and could possibly jerk Feitan to the side throw off the aim enough to survive, you're right. I think I might be changing my mind and leaning towards hisoka.

 

[zelllogan]

Re: Yupi vs. Illumi

Vote for Yupi. We just don't know enough about Illumi.

 

[morau-san]

Re: Hisoka vs. Feitan

i dont see how hisoka can win this. you guys are throwing out a perfect scenario here. with feitan like shouting "ok now heres my pain packer!!! rawr!!!" and hisoka realizing its time so he throws feitan around ridiculously to avoid being hit by the sun. a few things wrong there.
1) we have never had any confirmation in the manga that hisoka knows about feitan's pain packer. even if some of the other ryodan do. that doesnt prove hisoka does.
2) feitan's pain packer has such a large aoe radius that the other ryodan members have never seen it because getting close enough to see it clearly = death.
so how far can hisoka "throw" feitan with bungee gum to avoid a deadly move like pain packer? i doubt far enough. and i doubt he can even throw him away since with bungee gum he can kinda only pull people closer or whip them sideways... it doesnt exactly push when its stuck to someone.

 

[kkck]

Re: Hisoka vs. Feitan

I don't think hisoka could actually through feitan around easily with his bungee gum but there should be plenty other uses he can give it. Just sticking enough gum around the guy would in time restrict his movements. Hisoka should be very capable of creating a lot of gum, at least a quantity much larger than what we have seen so far. I mean, he is a top level nen user, I doubt he is limited to the minuscule amounts of gum we have seen. I think the key for hisoka to win this is to use his gum to restrict the movements of feitan.

 

[Wowzers]

Re: Hisoka vs. Feitan

I haven't re-read the York Shin arc like I had planned but I did come up with a way for Hisoka to win this one.

1. Hisoka does his usual antics and Feitan is mangled pretty much.
2. Feitan starts up the Pain Packer and put on his suit.
3. Hisoka sees this and realizes what is happening so covers his body with the texture and covers that with the bungie gum. The texture takes on the properties of a mirror. Hisoka now has a very effective defense against pain packer.
4. The contest now becomes a contest of the durability of each of their suits. Whoever's suit fails first loses.

I don't know about you, but I have enormous faith in the durability of Hisoka's bungie gum..

 

[morau-san]

Re: Hisoka vs. Feitan

3. Hisoka sees this and realizes what is happening so covers his body with the texture and covers that with the bungie gum. The texture takes on the properties of a mirror. Hisoka now has a very effective defense against pain packer.
4. The contest now becomes a contest of the durability of each of their suits. Whoever's suit fails first loses.

I don't know about you, but I have enormous faith in the durability of Hisoka's bungie gum..

hisoka can do that

 

[kkck]

Re: Hisoka vs. Feitan

Not sure how bungee gum would react to heat but it is also a possibility. It's obviously not actual gum so for it to melt or burn up would be a tad weird.

 

[Raysen_ht]

Re: Hisoka vs. Feitan

How about hisoka using his gum as an elastic to propel HIMSELF out of the range of pain packer?! he does not have to "throw feitan around"! Remember, pain packers range cant be TOO great, or the other ryodans members wouldnt have had the time to get away when feitan used it against that "queen"... imo Hisoka could easely avoid the attack once he sees Feitan's armor materialising.

 

[Franckie]

Re: Hisoka vs. Feitan

This is a good fight. Feitan can give Hisoka a run for his money, but I'm giving Hisoka the edge here. Out of all the Genei Ryodan, the only one Hisoka has expressed interest in fighting is Kuroro. That, and the fact that Kuroro must be powerful enough to keep the more unstable members in line strongly imply he is one of, if not the, most powerful member. The circumstantial evidence - along with other factors such as powerscaling and plot importance - also suggests Hisoka is on par with Kuroro.

 

[igotthegoods]

Re: Yupi vs. Illumi

Ooo~ another close one! Yupi barely squeaks by, winning 15-13.

Please use the HxH Tournament Discussion Thread for any further discussion on this fight.

 

[igotthegoods]

Morau vs. Yupi

Morau vs. Yupi

[sizept=0]this keeps the others ones nicely aligned[/sizept]

Morau Morau is a compassionate hunter who smokes a big pipe. Using his smoking pipe and smoke, he uses his manipulation-type abilities to manipulate the smoke to great effect against his opponents.​

[sizept=0]this keeps the others ones nicely aligned[/sizept]

Yupi The third and final of the Chimera Ant King's royal guard to be born. His aura was estimated by Knuckles to be ten times greater than Morau's aura. He has the ability to shape-shift into anything he wants and can build up energy and release it all at once in an explosion.​

[sizept=0]this keeps the others ones nicely aligned[/sizept]

Cast your vote and discuss (logically) why you voted for who you voted for. Have fun, but keep it clean!​

 

[Tenacious Weezy]

Re: Hisoka vs. Feitan

I wouldn't throw Hisoka up there with Kuroro in terms of power scaling. Kuroro has shown to keep other members of the spiders in check as wella s Hisoka (I believe there was a confrontation with Nobunaga at one point I may be wrong however). Also Hisoka in every fight has usually tried to kill his opponent (excluding Gon) Kuroro doesn't seem half way serious when he fights including when he took on Killuas Dad and Grandfather. I highly recommend not saying Hisoka is on par with Kuroro because it's not true and you're throwing Feitans skill and position as de facto leader (for a reason) out the window. I read back on a fight between Hisoka and Kastro (guy who creates doubles of himself) and while Hisoka did win (losing an arm) I don't think Feitan would have had that problem, infact i don't think he would even have to use Pain packer. Unless Hisoka has been hiding his true strength again and again I don't see how he could keep up with Feitan speed wise and Nen ability versus Nen ability Feitan is obviously stronger. I know fights are more than brute strength or whoever has the best ability but neither of these two are slouches and Feitan has beaten a stronger opponent than Hisoka has in the Manga. Without speculation on potential hinted ideas (and even with those same ideas) Feitan is obviously the stronger.