Discussion Irene Belserion Thread

[CliffMason13]

I think its going to end up being like a Kami and Demon King Piccolo thing. We already know she has the ability to affix magic onto things and she has the ability to remove Fairy Heart from Mavis, so its very possible she has the ability to remove parts of herself. Possibly she did it originally for good or bad reasons, maybe she thought being selfless and kind (Erza) was a weakness so she removed it from herself. She did say "I am you and you are me". The future thing kind of makes sense, but with all the other time travelling things going on, and its unlikely Erza would of become so warped in the future, if Erza discovered that she would become Irene I think Erza would take her own life.

 

[Kiki]

@DiMaria Yesta Can't you add the "They are the same" option in the poll?Thank You.

Mari will be able to, but since this thread was made a while back, the polls purpose was to be a prediction. So if we made an option of 'the same', then the results of the poll would be skewed (though I hope people don't change their votes haha).

I voted mother.

"They are the same person" could be added to the poll choices. But there are many versions (ideas) from several people as far as I remember (in the chapter discussion thread). Willing to help me what are they?


_____________________________________________________________________________________________

Speaking of attaching-dettaching, original body-embodiment theory, I am still hoping it isn't true. Because if it turned out to be true, then it meant Jellal all this time has fallen in love with a non-human. And I also fear all the possibilities there will be a lot of bsness.

I just hope it's family relationship. I want to know a bit of story about Erza's past, childhood, parents, etc.

 

[Spirit]

"They are the same person" could be added to the poll choices. But there are many versions (ideas) from several people as far as I remember (in the chapter discussion thread). Willing to help me what are they?


_____________________________________________________________________________________________

Speaking of attaching-dettaching, original body-embodiment theory, I am still hoping it isn't true. Because if it turned out to be true, then it meant Jellal all this time has fallen in love with a non-human. And I also fear all the possibilties there will be a lot of bsness.

I just hope it's family relationship. I want to know a bit of story about Erza's past, childhood, parents, etc.

It's possible that Irene enchanted an inanimate body with a piece of her own soul
Or else, she could have been reviving a lost family member, a skill passed down to her by Zeref perhaps?

 

[Kiki]

It's possible that Irene enchanted an inanimate body with a piece of her own soul
Or else, she could have been reviving a lost family member, a skill passed down to her by Zeref perhaps?

But then again the Erza we know all this time is fake, false, and the real Erza turns out to be other character. Erza is one of MCs, unless sensei wants to make something new (amazing plot twist) though.

This is just my opinion though

 

[Spirit]

I like to think outside of the box. If we all make predictable theories, to me it seems like insulting the author's ability to surprise us. While I know many better writers than Hiro, he's managed to engage a massive fanbase, and I want him to be able to surprise me

 

[CliffMason13]

"They are the same person" could be added to the poll choices. But there are many versions (ideas) from several people as far as I remember (in the chapter discussion thread). Willing to help me what are they?


_____________________________________________________________________________________________

Speaking of attaching-dettaching, original body-embodiment theory, I am still hoping it isn't true. Because if it turned out to be true, then it meant Jellal all this time has fallen in love with a non-human. And I also fear all the possibilities there will be a lot of bsness.

I just hope it's family relationship. I want to know a bit of story about Erza's past, childhood, parents, etc.

I think, with how Erzas past was portrayed, she didn't know her last name, she didn't mention a parental figure of any sorts, it seems likely that she could possibly be Irenes creation. Erza wasn't that small when she was taken to the tower of heaven, she would of had some foreign memories of her family, unless of course there is no family to remember. You never know though, Hiro may surprise us on this one.

 

[Yunkers]

But then again the Erza we know all this time is fake, false, and the real Erza turns out to be other character. Erza is one of MCs, unless sensei wants to make something new (amazing plot twist) though.

This is just my opinion though

Natsu is also a fake (he's Zeref's creation from the dead body) and it didn't destroy his character. I agree that she shouldn't be a thing--it will be too strange if it turns that we were watching the armor's adventure all the time--but to me, it will be okay if Erza was created from the dead body. I will also like if Erza was created from living animal (we saw that Irene can also turn a human to an animal, so she also can the opposite).

 

[Juliana]

Not related to Erza at all, please!
I can't take another plot twist about family relations. Come on, where is your creativity, Hiro?

 

[Kyubi]

"They are the same person" could be added to the poll choices. But there are many versions (ideas) from several people as far as I remember (in the chapter discussion thread). Willing to help me what are they?


_____________________________________________________________________________________________

Speaking of attaching-dettaching, original body-embodiment theory, I am still hoping it isn't true. Because if it turned out to be true, then it meant Jellal all this time has fallen in love with a non-human. And I also fear all the possibilities there will be a lot of bsness.

I just hope it's family relationship. I want to know a bit of story about Erza's past, childhood, parents, etc.

Going by this reddit thread:https://www.reddit.com/r/fairytail/comments/59i2u6/mssomething_misleadingcontroversial_next_chapter/

Apparently Hiro said something in the next chapter might be misleading/controversial? In that case I could see it being the non-human theory then. That would be pretty controversial.

 

[Hermit]

Some random trivia I realized about Irene that could be/could not be important depending on the upcoming chapters.
Irene's personality, and basically the things around her are based on contrasts.
For example, in the chapter where she was introduced, she talked about a BLACK and WHITE angel, who fought on Mount Zonia a time in the past. A contrast of colors.

Spoiler: Irene's story

Her subordinates were also named after two contrasts. Juliet SUN and Hynhe LUNACY. In this case, the word 'Lunacy' is derived from 'Lunar', which refers to the moon. So this is a contrast in the times of the day.

Spoiler: Juliet and Hynhe

There was also the issue of her subordinates in the North. Credits to @MLG Bradman for noticing this detail, Bradman was a demon, or in other words, impure, filthy, while Larcade is sort of holy? Irene might have personally requested these 2 for this sole purpose.Idk it sounds like something worth noting. So its a contrast between characteristics.

Spoiler: Bradman and Larcade

When she meets Zeref in the Guild Hall, he says she's a master at ATTACHING and REMOVING magic from objects. A contrast in actions here.

Spoiler: Zeref's words about Irene

And finally, the title of next week's chapter, if it is indeed referring to Irene and Erza's relationship, is also a contrast and a play on words. Pain and pleasure are two sides of the same coin as long as sensations are concerned.

Spoiler: Pain and Pleasure.

So the reason Irene might hate Erza and want to kill her is because if Erza stays as she is,which is alive, the two of them will have to merge into one. Basically, Erza's existence goes against the whole idea of Irene's existence/ideals.
How does that sound?

 

[Arjuna]

Some random trivia I realized about Irene that could be/could not be important depending on the upcoming chapters.
Irene's personality, and basically the things around her are based on contrasts.
For example, in the chapter where she was introduced, she talked about a BLACK and WHITE angel, who fought on Mount Zonia a time in the past. A contrast of colors.

Spoiler: Irene's story

Her subordinates were also named after two contrasts. Juliet SUN and Hynhe LUNACY. In this case, the word 'Lunacy' is derived from 'Lunar', which refers to the moon. So this is a contrast in the times of the day.

Spoiler: Juliet and Hynhe

There was also the issue of her subordinates in the North. Credits to @MLG Bradman for noticing this detail, Bradman was a demon, or in other words, impure, filthy, while Larcade is sort of holy? Irene might have personally requested these 2 for this sole purpose.Idk it sounds like something worth noting. So its a contrast between characteristics.

Spoiler: Bradman and Larcade

When she meets Zeref in the Guild Hall, he says she's a master at ATTACHING and REMOVING magic from objects. A contrast in actions here.

Spoiler: Zeref's words about Irene

And finally, the title of next week's chapter, if it is indeed referring to Irene and Erza's relationship, is also a contrast and a play on words. Pain and pleasure are two sides of the same coin as long as sensations are concerned.

Spoiler: Pain and Pleasure.

So the reason Irene might hate Erza and want to kill her is because if Erza stays as she is,which is alive, the two of them will have to merge into one. Basically, Erza's existence goes against the whole idea of Irene's existence/ideals.
How does that sound?

So basically Erza is the light part and Irene is the dark side.So Irene separated her good parts.Sounds plausible to me.

 

[Doughboy]

So basically going off your theory @Emperor Spriggan Irene's body is the main container body... which means RIP ERZA.
..

...

....

Naw I'm playing, but it's highly plausible Irene detached Erza from herself or vice versa, which will be how Erza will (eventually) beat her; reabsorb her ass. I would much rather have that over any other outcome that can possess potential bullshit like Erza solo'ing Irene by herself.

But was it Irene who detached Erza from herself or someone else, like their parents? I'm in the belief Irene was super talented when she was young but she didn't learn her enchantments until she met Zeref so I'm in the mindset it couldn't of been her who separated them. Maybe that's how Erza/Irene's parents died...?

 

[Hermit]

EDIT: There's also this minor detail. Sorry to add on to my first part
In the GMG when Erza was fighting in pandemonium, there was this panel.

Spoiler: Erza in the GMG

IIRC, the anime had a mention of hope in this part, right? Feel free to correct me on this.
So essentially, Erza could be viewed as 'Scarlet Hope'
Then when Irene was introduced, we had her epithet.

Spoiler: Scarlet Despair

Another contrast?
Also bonus panel:

Spoiler: Blooming Scarlet

Could be a hint, or Hiro just likes repeating himself

 

[Kiki]

@Doughboy I had a similar thought!

Assuming your theory is true, @Emperor Spriggan @Belserion I was gonna ask you something. When did the detaching process happen? When Erza/Irene was kid, or during Erza enslavement on ToH, or when Erza trapped in lacrima?

 

[Hermit]

But was it Irene who detached Erza from herself or someone else, like their parents? I'm in the belief Irene was super talented when she was young but she didn't learn her enchantments until she met Zeref so I'm in the mindset it couldn't of been her who separated them. Maybe that's how Erza/Irene's parents died...?

There's this thing that @lakhan220 suggested to me earlier (but he's too lazy to post it), about the possibility of Irene and Erza being the descendants of the black and white angel
Hold on, I'll quote him:
And ZEREF , how abt IRENE and ERZA are descendants of those fairies who fought ?
Also think abt it, BLACK and WHITE had to be sisters or acquaintances
And , their destiny has bounded them to fight .
and the winner will take all the ability and knowledge of the loser..
Their names are opposite as well
Scarlet ANGEL vs DESPAIR.......The humiliation that she might have suffered due to being descendant of black angel.......and she hates ERZA for it(edited)
or the contradictary
The actual winner sacrificed and decided to leave.
and IRENE being the descendant wants her place back......

 

[Belserion]

@Doughboy I had a similar thought!

Assuming your theory is true, @Emperor Spriggan @Belserion I was gonna ask you something. When did the detaching process happen? When Erza/Irene was kid, or during Erza enslavement on ToH, or when Erza trapped in lacrima?

Honestly if i was to guess i'd agree with the posts that say it happened in the tower of heaven. The hopelessness and despair () she felt there caused her to develop something of a split personality. But as powerful as she was she actually split into two persons instead lol.

 

[Kiki]

Some random trivia I realized about Irene that could be/could not be important depending on the upcoming chapters.
Irene's personality, and basically the things around her are based on contrasts.
For example, in the chapter where she was introduced, she talked about a BLACK and WHITE angel, who fought on Mount Zonia a time in the past. A contrast of colors.

Spoiler: Irene's story

Her subordinates were also named after two contrasts. Juliet SUN and Hynhe LUNACY. In this case, the word 'Lunacy' is derived from 'Lunar', which refers to the moon. So this is a contrast in the times of the day.

Spoiler: Juliet and Hynhe

There was also the issue of her subordinates in the North. Credits to @MLG Bradman for noticing this detail, Bradman was a demon, or in other words, impure, filthy, while Larcade is sort of holy? Irene might have personally requested these 2 for this sole purpose.Idk it sounds like something worth noting. So its a contrast between characteristics.

Spoiler: Bradman and Larcade

When she meets Zeref in the Guild Hall, he says she's a master at ATTACHING and REMOVING magic from objects. A contrast in actions here.

That's a good observation. I actually had a same thought, especially about the tale Irene told (white angel and black angel), Juliet SUN and Heine LUNAcy, and the black and white swords (the real form of Juliet and Heine). At that time, I didn't realize there were Larcade and Bloodman in North Fleet at all, so thanks for bringing that up!

To me, those all are like a very very big sign, that Erza and Irene are like black and white in Yin Yang. One is positive and the other one is negative, but there is no one that dominates the other one. Both balance each other.

So if we assume this is gonna be true, we can rule out any theory except 1. twin, and 2. the new theory: Erza = Irene.


_________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Also thank you so much for livening up this thread to all members of "Who is Irene Belserion" crew (yes I call you all that haha)! I initially thought this thread will remain so quiet, but it's not exactly like that. I am so happy that many people stopped by this thread and shared their thoughts. I know in some chapters Irene's real identity is gonna be revealed, so you know what will happen to this thread

Thank you minnasan!

 

[FairyKing24]

I agree with the Erza=Irene theory, remember when Irene said to Erza that, "I am you, You are me!" Something like that.

The fact that the eclipse is present during Tenrou Arc, zeref is alive saying " this is the beginning of new era" while killing Master Precht, the Tenroujima's fairy sphere 7 years stopmotion effect in the TENROU ARC and the 400 years project of Anna, Zeref and the Dragons.

Also, remember when Layla opened the Eclipse, Anna was on the other side. Maybe Anna was with the Dragons in X777. Maybe Anna was still alive, holding the 12 Golden keys opening the Eclipse, recruiting Erza Scarlet of the future to kill Acnologia.

But the problem is the paradox, even lucy is on the stopmotion effect, Yukino, posseses the golden key (Libra and Pisces). Which break the rule! There is only a copy of golden key scattered elsewhere.

 

[Left Eye of Ra]

@Doughboy I had a similar thought!

Assuming your theory is true, @Emperor Spriggan @Belserion I was gonna ask you something. When did the detaching process happen? When Erza/Irene was kid, or during Erza enslavement on ToH, or when Erza trapped in lacrima?

Erza was the source of Irene. It happened when she was tortured in the tower of heaven and lost her eye. The give away is Irene's lion staff. Irene clearly parallels Sekhmat, the eygyptian lion goddess who loved causing suffering and was a manifestation of the eye of ra (which was the RIGHT "eye" eygyptian symbol, vs the eye of horus which was the left). She was the protector of Pharoahs (zeref) and led them in warfare. She was a solar deity usually depicted dressed in red (scarlet). She was the harsh aspect of the lunar godess of joy and love, Hathor (erza) and was known as the "mistress of dread"/ "the red lady" (the scarlet despair) and "mighty one of enchantments". One story is that she was transformed FROM Hathor by ra to punish humanity, and as "the right eye of ra" did so until the gods (?zeref ? Ankersham) grew weary of it and tricked her into getting drunk by making a vast amount of beer look like blood, which she drank.

During her childhood torture, erza lost her RIGHT EYE, either through her own actions or that of a protector (eg a fairy of origin or a god). Lots of fan angst has been spent on the fact that she wins because "she's erza", but if she is protected by a god tier character it is actually important that the protection is evident in the story. It is simply too perfect not to be the basis of these two characters. Irene must be erza's right eye, formed during her torture as a child to punish humanity.

Looking into this, a very large amount of fairy tail is eygptian beyond just the obvious talking cats. But what does it mean for the story? Was it just inspiration? Who knows. In the end, the repair of ra's right eye is complicated and once repaired it becomes Wedjet/Nekhbet, a nurturing godess with pendulous white breasts who protects horus (?natsu) from Set and marries..... get this..... Hapy, a water God named "lord of the fishes" and depicted as a blue man. Their child was nefertem, Lord of perfume (or should I say parfum). Obviously ezra isn't going to marry happy and ichiya is not their son, but she may, once she repairs her right eye by merging with Irene, do what sekhmet did and marry the first person she sees (guess who). And I think at the very least we can trust Hiro to make further use of wedjet/nekhbets "pendulous white breasts" in his drawings beyond just the recent calming of natsu and grey.

 

[Belserion]

Erza was the source of Irene. It happened when she was tortured in the tower of heaven and lost her eye. The give away is Irene's lion staff. Irene clearly parallels Sekhmat, the eygyptian lion goddess who loved causing suffering and was a manifestation of the eye of ra (which was the RIGHT "eye" eygyptian symbol, vs the eye of horus which was the left). She was the protector of Pharoahs (zeref) and led them in warfare. She was a solar deity usually depicted dressed in red (scarlet). She was the harsh aspect of the lunar godess of joy and love, Hathor (erza) and was known as the "mistress of dread"/ "the red lady" (the scarlet despair) and "mighty one of enchantments". One story is that she was transformed FROM Hathor by ra to punish humanity, and as "the right eye of ra" did so until the gods (?zeref ? Ankersham) grew weary of it and tricked her into getting drunk by making a vast amount of beer look like blood, which she drank.

During her childhood torture, erza lost her RIGHT EYE, either through her own actions or that of a protector (eg a fairy of origin or a god). Lots of fan angst has been spent on the fact that she wins because "she's erza", but if she is protected by a god tier character it is actually important that the protection is evident in the story. It is simply too perfect not to be the basis of these two characters. Irene must be erza's right eye, formed during her torture as a child to punish humanity.

Looking into this, a very large amount of fairy tail is eygptian beyond just the obvious talking cats. But what does it mean for the story? Was it just inspiration? Who knows. In the end, the repair of ra's right eye is complicated and once repaired it becomes Wedjet/Nekhbet, a nurturing godess with pendulous white breasts who protects horus (?natsu) from Set and marries..... get this..... Hapy, a water God named "lord of the fishes" and depicted as a blue man. Their child was nefertem, Lord of perfume (or should I say parfum). Obviously ezra isn't going to marry happy and ichiya is not their son, but she may, once she repairs her right eye by merging with Irene, do what sekhmet did and marry the first person she sees (guess who). And I think at the very least we can trust Hiro to make further use of wedjet/nekhbets "pendulous white breasts" in his drawings beyond just the recent calming of natsu and grey.

This post is amazing. I like it. Plus Erza being a god.....I can see it. Or something similar. A powerful Sorceress maybe if Hiro doesn't want to go the god route and we know he loves Erza. Very original.

Also it's more plausible considering the eye part. We know Irene has a giant eye magic. I definitely like this theory.