Fantasy Jacob vs Wraith

[Axiomus]

Natsu does not go all out against fodder, lmao.

Spoiler

Hmm, no he used that as a fodder attack, he wasn't wasting power until big guns got out.

Spoiler

Bigger =/= Better or High End.

Makarov's punch didn't hurt Jacob...How do we know? Bcs it didn't put a scratch on him so no Natsu's punches delivered more damage. Launching = jack squat if no damage has been done.

Makarov's punch also hurt Natsu in the latest chapter and you argue MP as nothing to do with stats so...yeah.

Spoiler

Natsu needed to use FDKM to beat Jacob and no, he didn't treat fodder as a higher threat than a Spriggan 12. Ridiculous downplay to think fodder are treated as higher threat level than a S12.

Natsu did not go all out against Bakyl. That doesn't mean he didn't go all out against the Alvarez army. Natsu used this against the Alvarez army. This is one of his most impressive feats without a power-up. Demolition Fist is also one of his most impressive feats without a power-up. That simply tells us that the Alvarez army of 1 million, the one that managed to engage the entire Fairy Tail guild when people like Gildarts and Erza could not clear, is something that warrants this level of attack. Jacob is not. I agree that size isn't everything, but it's also not completely irrelevant. Moreover this roar is a Fire Dragon King spell which makes it superior to all of his basic spells, so the argument here isn't even just one about size. He is literally using a stronger flame. Natsu is willing to use FDK flames against the Alvarez troop, but he wasn't willing to use that against Jacob while they were still inside the guild.

Spoiler: Natsu's Fire Dragon King's Roar

Compare this to the punches and kicks Natsu was landing against Jacob. Keep in mind that these punches and kicks weren't as strong as the combo kick that Natsu later goes on to do with Lucy. To suggest that these unnamed basic spell is somehow stronger than one of Natsu's largest FDK spells in the series is honestly ridiculous.

Spoiler: Natsu's weaksauce strikes against Jacob

It doesn't matter what you think Natsu treated as a higher threat. I honestly don't see why "threat" is even an issue here. Nowhere did I get the sense that Natsu thought Jacob was a major threat, and did anything that he did out of desperation. Natsu wasn't attacking the Alvarez army because they were a threat either. He was attacking them because he wanted to get Zeref's attention.

Makarov's punch did to damage to Jacob. Just because he wasn't scratched up, it doesn't mean anything. Jacob wasn't scratched up when Natsu knocked him out with demolition fist either, and he was out cold. The fact that Makarov's punch sent Jacob flying whereas Natsu and Lucy's combo kick barely did anything tells us that that Makarov's punch was stronger. What do you think a fist fight between Makarov and Jacob would look like anyways? Jacob would pepper Makarov with a bunch of strikes which would do almost nothing, and then Makarov would send him halfway across a town every single time he lands a punch. Jacob would have to run a mini marathon every time Makarov lands just to stay in the fight. And yes, Makarov's punches did hurt Natsu. I actually don't care that much if it turns out that magical power increases physical strength. The fact that Natsu's strength is still being compared to Madmole means that it's still comparable to when they fought in Elmina. That level of strength is enough to scale to any of the blows base Natsu landed against Jacob. Whatever theoretical amps Natsu can have by boosting his strength with MP is largely irrelevant.

 

[WoWfan]

size does not matter, especially when it comes to attacks, even Savage flames is much smaller than regular attacks Natsu had done and yet it is far stronger than Igneel's remnant flames.

 

[Jko]

Only on this forum have I seen this much downplay for the S12.

Natsu going more serious on fodder is a low I didn't think we would reach but here we are. Fodders are greater than Zeref bcs he was taken out by a room level attack lol.

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 10, 2019, Original Post Date: Nov 10, 2019 ---

size does not matter, especially when it comes to attacks, even Savage flames is much smaller than regular attacks Natsu had done and yet it is far stronger than Igneel's remnant flames.

Don't forget the demo-fist he used on Iku and the roar he did in LFD were also bigger than any attack produced by IgNatsu and SF/7DS Natsu so by his logic they are stronger...lmao.

 

[Seven777]

Only on this forum have I seen this much downplay for the S12.

Natsu going more serious on fodder is a low I didn't think we would reach but here we are. Fodders are greater than Zeref bcs he was taken out by a room level attack lol.

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 10, 2019, Original Post Date: Nov 10, 2019 ---

Don't forget the demo-fist he used on Iku and the roar he did in LFD were also bigger than any attack produced by IgNatsu and SF/7DS Natsu so by his logic they are stronger...lmao.

Seems you keep forgetting Neinhart is a S12 too... cause he was beaten by two nameless punches, and at that point he was stronger than Jacob. Unless you're saying the abilities Natsu uses to win a fight are irrelevant to how seriously he's fighting....?

 

[WoWfan]

It was confirmed that Neinhart was not physically strong that he had his Historia to protect him, he only used range, even confirmed before that there are wizards that are physically weak that they only specialize in magic.

 

[Jko]

Seems you keep forgetting Neinhart is a S12 too... cause he was beaten by two nameless punches, and at that point he was stronger than Jacob. Unless you're saying the abilities Natsu uses to win a fight are irrelevant to how seriously he's fighting....?

Seems you keep forgeting he oneshotted Jellal... Not in base form, he needed FDKM to win which he did not need for fodder. Natsu's seriousness is the effort he puts into his fights not the name of his spells, he didn't put any effort in fighting fodder.

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 10, 2019, Original Post Date: Nov 10, 2019 ---

Also you guys harp on Neinheart's physicals, but turn a blind eye to Wraith's...lol. He got stomped by Natsu who didn't even use fire.

 

[Axiomus]

Only on this forum have I seen this much downplay for the S12.

Natsu going more serious on fodder is a low I didn't think we would reach but here we are. Fodders are greater than Zeref bcs he was taken out by a room level attack lol.

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 10, 2019, Original Post Date: Nov 10, 2019 ---

Don't forget the demo-fist he used on Iku and the roar he did in LFD were also bigger than any attack produced by IgNatsu and SF/7DS Natsu so by his logic they are stronger...lmao.

You're still pretending it's all about size. Natsu only used his basic attack against Jacob inside the guild. His FDK spells are simply stronger. It's not simply that Natsu was using a larger attack. He was using a larger attack with a superior type of flame. You're literally trying to tell me that an unnamed basic attack is stronger than a named FDK spell. The fact that the FDK spell is also larger just exemplifies the nonsense that is already present.

Jacob isn't being downplayed. We've already acknowledged that he wins handily if transport is allowed. But it's absolute nonsense to imply that Jacob's hand to hand techniques could hit as hard as Wraith's nuke, when they have accomplished absolutely nothing. Jacob's hand to hand attacks don't do as much damage to Natsu as Wraith's nuke did. They don't do as much damage to Lucy as Wraith's nuke did to Natsu. They don't do as much damage to a Mirajane without takeovers as Wraith's nuke did to Natsu.

size does not matter, especially when it comes to attacks, even Savage flames is much smaller than regular attacks Natsu had done and yet it is far stronger than Igneel's remnant flames.

"Savage flames" is a fire dragon king's demolition fist. It was a named FDK mode attack. I've stated over and over again that I acknowledge that size isn't everything. On top of being a named FDK spell, this particular attack managed to burn Natsu's own arms and burn away Fairy Heart's time magic. That's why it's still considered mightily impressive despite it's size. Did the flames that Natsu use against Jacob managed to do any of this? Did the flames that Natsu use against Jacob manage to do anything? No. The attacks that Natsu used inside the guild were unnamed basic spells that didn't manage to do squat. The strongest attack he used was the combo kick against Lucy, which didn't even match the force of Makarov's punch. It was nowhere close to one of his FDK spells, let alone what Natsu could do with his raging flames of emotions. The ONLY THING that it has in common with "savage flames" is that it's a small attack....and you guys are pretending that it's enough to scale that above Natsu's named, FDK spells. Talk about the pot calling the kettle black.

 

[Jko]

You're still pretending it's all about size. Natsu only used his basic attack against Jacob inside the guild. His FDK spells are simply stronger. It's not simply that Natsu was using a larger attack. He was using a larger attack with a superior type of flame. You're literally trying to tell me that an unnamed basic attack is stronger than a named FDK spell. The fact that the FDK spell is also larger just exemplifies the nonsense that is already present.

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 10, 2019 ---

"Savage flames" is a fire dragon king's demolition fist with flames of emotion. It was a named FDK mode attack. I've stated over and over again that I acknowledge that size isn't everything. On top of being a named FDK spell, this particular attack managed to burn Natsu's own arms and burn away Fairy Heart's time magic. That's why it's still considered mightily impressive despite it's size.

Did the flames that Natsu use against Jacob managed to do this? Did the flames that Natsu use against Jacob manage to do anything? No. The attacks that Natsu used inside the guild were unnamed basic spells that didn't manage to do squat. The strongest attack he used was the combo kick against Lucy, which didn't even match the force of Makarov's punch. It was nowhere close to one of his FDK spells, let alone what Natsu could do with his raging flames of emotions. The ONLY THING that it has in common with "savage flames" is that it's a small attack....and you guys are pretending that it's enough to scale that above Natsu's named, FDK spells. Talk about the pot calling the kettle black.

Natsu used FD attacks against Zeref and Acnologia as well. Guess he treated fodder more seriously? Yep, they are. Why? Bcs he actually tried. His ending demo-fist is literally his visually most impressive Demo-fist in the manga lol. There is nothing presented as bigger never equal better. More effort = More attack power.

 

[WoWfan]

Savage Fire is the flames that reach beyond the limit of Natsu’s heat capacity, thus they exhibit characteristics that his other flames do not show and Warp reality by the sheer stress of heat itself. It does by the increase in heat exhibit more energy than any attack that Natsu has produced thus far. Natsu used naked attacks against Jacob, and only won based on being able to hit him while Jacob was unable to fight back in mid air. Size doesn’t matter, only the energy that is generated from his heat, which is greater than any power Natsu has shown, possibly beside Seven Flames spell.

 

[Axiomus]

Natsu used FD attacks against Zeref and Acnologia as well. Guess he treated fodder more seriously? Yep, they are. Why? Bcs he actually tried. His ending demo-fist is literally his visually most impressive Demo-fist in the manga lol. There is nothing presented as bigger never equal better. More effort = More attack power.

He didn't do anything to Zeref and Acnologia when he used those basic attacks, as it should be. When ever Natsu actually managed to accomplish something against Zeref, he was using an FDK spell. The only attack that Natsu managed to accomplish something against Acnologia was the 7 fire dragon spell that also triggered dragon force.

Tell me....Where do you rank this attack?

Spoiler: Natsu using fire dragon king's demolition fist against Mercphobia

Jacob is straight fodder compared to Mercphobia. I would even argue that Jacob is a bigger fodder to Mercphobia than the Alvarez soldiers were to Natsu. Natsu on his own wouldn't be able to clear the Alvarez army, whereas Mercphobia on his own has half the power it requires to solo the world like Acnologia. You think it doesn't make sense for Natsu to use a weaker attack against Jacob than he did against the Alvarez army because the army was fodder. Then how does it make sense for Natsu to use a weaker attack against Mercphobia than he did against Jacob for the same reason? What does this say about the FDK demolition fist he used against Madmole? These attacks were even used in the same arc. You're the one trying to tell me that just because Natsu isn't using a mode that these FDK spells don't stack up against the one he used against Jacob, even though logically the mode doesn't change the type of flames that Natsu is using if he's already using an FDK spell. Then you turn around and try to tell me that Natsu's unnamed basic attacks are stronger than his named FDK spells. Why doesn't Madmole get any credit for tanking a demolition fist, whereas Jacob gets all the credit in the world for getting knocked unconscious the same attack? An attack, mind you, that he doesn't even tank.

Spoiler: Natsu using the same FDK Demolition Fist against Madmole earlier in the arc

The Spriggans aren't being downplayed here. We recognize that Jacob easily wins if he has transport, assuming it works on Wraith. This doesn't change the fact that Jacob's attack power is trash compared to Wraith's. Jacob's durability is better than Wraith's, but it's still not as good as Natsu's and Wraith can knock out Natsu. Give me a reason Jacob beats Wraith besides the fact that he's a Spriggan, and show me something impressive about Jacob's hand to hand attacks besides just constantly referring back to his status as a Spriggan. Or at least, put Neinhart on the same pedastle as Jacob if being a Spriggan is all-important.

Savage Fire is the flames that reach beyond the limit of Natsu’s heat capacity, thus they exhibit characteristics that his other flames do not show and Warp reality by the sheer stress of heat itself. It does by the increase in heat exhibit more energy than any attack that Natsu has produced thus far. Natsu used naked attacks against Jacob, and only won based on being able to hit him while Jacob was unable to fight back in mid air. Size doesn’t matter, only the energy that is generated from his heat, which is greater than any power Natsu has shown, possibly beside Seven Flames spell.

Savage flames is quite literally just flames of emotions making Natsu's fire dragon king's demolition fist stronger. Going "beyond the limits of Natsu's heat capacity" doesn't actually make it a different type of fire. It's still FDK flames. It's just FDK flames boosted with emotions.

You think that the attacks that Natsu used against Jacob inside the guild had greater heat than any of his other attacks?

 

[WoWfan]

Savage Flames are the flames that literally surpass his heat tolerance limit, and caused time to distort, it does when his other flames never shown such characteristics, just like how regular fire does not cause nuclear fusion. Again, size does not matter, just like Natsu did not oneshot Ajeel in a different continent despite Ajeel being supposedly weaker than the other Spriggans, so his attacks are still base level at best.

let me ask you this, is the flame inside the guild hall that defeated and burned infinite magic power weaker than all his other attacks, despite the Guild Hall still standing and not destroyed completely?

 

[Axiomus]

Savage Flames are the flames that literally surpass his heat tolerance limit, and caused time to distort, it does when his other flames never shown such characteristics, just like how regular fire does not cause nuclear fusion. Again, size does not matter, just like Natsu did not oneshot Ajeel in a different continent despite Ajeel being supposedly weaker than the other Spriggans, so his attacks are still base level at best.

let me ask you this, is the flame inside the guild hall that defeated and burned infinite magic power weaker than all his other attacks, despite the Guild Hall still standing and not destroyed completely?

Natsu's raging flames of emotions are still fire dragon king flames. They're simply what FDK flames can achieve when boosted by Natsu's emotions. Zeref literally goes out of his way to say that these flames were not some type of special sacred fire, and are just the flames of emotion from Natsu.

@Bold
Absolutely not, but the attacks Natsu used against Jacob is in no, way, shape or form comparable to the raging flames of emotion Natsu used against Jacob inside the guild. I shouldn't even have to say this. Raging flames of emotion was a named FDK spell that managed to burn away Fairy Heart's time magic. The base attacks Natsu used against Jacob were unnamed attacks that didn't accomplish squat. The only thing they have in common is that they didn't damage the guild, and that's not even entirely true because the clash against Zeref did damage the guild. To try to use that as an argument for why the attacks used against Jacob is impressive is, quite frankly, the most absurd argument appealing from size that anyone has ever uttered.

 

[WoWfan]

Natsu's Savage Flames are the flames that overcame the threshold of his Heat tolerance and warp time and space which, Which are flames onto themselves, as they are Blazes of Savage Emotions, not regular flames of emotion which are different, not only that it is not just his flames, but the Guild's flames. That does not matter, either you say size does not matter or no, you cannot claim both for your own benefit.

 

[Seven777]

Seems you keep forgeting he oneshotted Jellal... Not in base form, he needed FDKM to win which he did not need for fodder. Natsu's seriousness is the effort he puts into his fights not the name of his spells, he didn't put any effort in fighting fodder.

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 10, 2019, Original Post Date: Nov 10, 2019 ---

Also you guys harp on Neinheart's physicals, but turn a blind eye to Wraith's...lol. He got stomped by Natsu who didn't even use fire.

What’s Jellal got to do with anything? Natsu used nameless punches on Neinhart, a S12 member, but FDK punches on fodders.

Natsus seriousness in a fight is the effort not the name of the spells, right, I agree completely. Which is why Jacob is weak, because Natsu treated him like a joke and wasn’t at all exhausted after their fight, despite the name of the spells used.

 

[WoWfan]

Natsu used nameless attacks on fodder troops as well and it was clearly FDK spells. Natsu treated him as a credible threat, even admitting that he was strong, he couldn't actually finish him without the opening that Makarov gave him.

 

[Jko]

He didn't do anything to Zeref and Acnologia when he used those basic attacks, as it should be. When ever Natsu actually managed to accomplish something against Zeref, he was using an FDK spell. The only attack that Natsu managed to accomplish something against Acnologia was the 7 fire dragon spell that also triggered dragon force.

Tell me....Where do you rank this attack?

Spoiler: Natsu using fire dragon king's demolition fist against Mercphobia

Jacob is straight fodder compared to Mercphobia. I would even argue that Jacob is a bigger fodder to Mercphobia than the Alvarez soldiers were to Natsu. Natsu on his own wouldn't be able to clear the Alvarez army, whereas Mercphobia on his own has half the power it requires to solo the world like Acnologia. You think it doesn't make sense for Natsu to use a weaker attack against Jacob than he did against the Alvarez army because the army was fodder. Then how does it make sense for Natsu to use a weaker attack against Mercphobia than he did against Jacob for the same reason? What does this say about the FDK demolition fist he used against Madmole? These attacks were even used in the same arc. You're the one trying to tell me that just because Natsu isn't using a mode that these FDK spells don't stack up against the one he used against Jacob, even though logically the mode doesn't change the type of flames that Natsu is using if he's already using an FDK spell. Then you turn around and try to tell me that Natsu's unnamed basic attacks are stronger than his named FDK spells. Why doesn't Madmole get any credit for tanking a demolition fist, whereas Jacob gets all the credit in the world for getting knocked unconscious the same attack? An attack, mind you, that he doesn't even tank.

Spoiler: Natsu using the same FDK Demolition Fist against Madmole earlier in the arc

The Spriggans aren't being downplayed here. We recognize that Jacob easily wins if he has transport, assuming it works on Wraith. This doesn't change the fact that Jacob's attack power is trash compared to Wraith's. Jacob's durability is better than Wraith's, but it's still not as good as Natsu's and Wraith can knock out Natsu. Give me a reason Jacob beats Wraith besides the fact that he's a Spriggan, and show me something impressive about Jacob's hand to hand attacks besides just constantly referring back to his status as a Spriggan. Or at least, put Neinhart on the same pedastle as Jacob if being a Spriggan is all-important.



Savage flames is quite literally just flames of emotions making Natsu's fire dragon king's demolition fist stronger. Going "beyond the limits of Natsu's heat capacity" doesn't actually make it a different type of fire. It's still FDK flames. It's just FDK flames boosted with emotions.

You think that the attacks that Natsu used against Jacob inside the guild had greater heat than any of his other attacks?

Natsu only acomplished anything at the end of their fight when he used all of his power and PoF. The name of the spell had nothing to do with the attack he was dishing out with all his magical power.

Natsu uses a Fire Dragon spell right after he did that FDK punch as a finisher for Merc.

Spoiler

He also uses an FD spell right after he used FDK punch on Madmole.

Spoiler

Effort > Named or Unnamed attacks. If he had no trouble with fodder that means he's not using his high end attacks against them. Several times he has used FD spells over FDK and several times they were against people who are way above fodder. He's dishing out basic FDK punches on fodder and not high tier or god tiers then that means his basic FDK punches aren't stronger than his FD attacks he is putting actual effort behind.

Yes, they are downplayed. Y'all try to always argue that durability is trash and their physicals suck yet they don't. Jacob was overpowering base Natsu in physical, the same base Natsu who was thrashing Wraith w/o using fire as soon as he touched him. He also used an attack on Mavis that almost shattered her crystal with one attack. The same crystal that took multiple hits from Fairy Glitter before Cana managed to crack and destroy it.

Spoiler

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 11, 2019, Original Post Date: Nov 11, 2019 ---

What’s Jellal got to do with anything? Natsu used nameless punches on Neinhart, a S12 member, but FDK punches on fodders.

Natsus seriousness in a fight is the effort not the name of the spells, right, I agree completely. Which is why Jacob is weak, because Natsu treated him like a joke and wasn’t at all exhausted after their fight, despite the name of the spells used.

Bcs you're saying Neinheart is weak so and you don't think Jellal is so how is Neinheart weak when he KOed Jellal in one hit. And Neinheart drew blood drawn from Natsu while the fodder were getting decimated by him so he did put more effort in fight Neinheart than fodder.

Except Natsu put more effort in beating Jacob than he did those fodders and everything below Jacob's tier. He needed FDKM to win bcs his base form was getting manhandle.

Natsu in the Alvarez arc had nigh endless stamina as well, the only thing that taxed him to zero was DF and Igneel's magical power. Currently he's getting taxed by his LFD and Base form only lol.

 

[Axiomus]

Spoiler: Shock

Natsu only acomplished anything at the end of the fight when he used all of his power and PoF. The name of the spell had nothing to do woth the attack he was dishing out at full throttle.

Natsu uses a Fire Dragon spell right after he did that FDK punch as a finisher for Merc.

Spoiler

He also uses an FD spell right after he used FDK punch on Madmole.

Spoiler

Effort > Named or Unnamed attacks. If he had no trouble with fodder that means he's not using his high end attacks against them. Several times he has used FD spells over FDK and several times they were against people who are way above fodder. If he's dishing out basic FDK punches on fodder and not high tier or god tiers than that means his basic FDK punches aren't stronger than his his FD attack he is putting actual effort behind.

Yes, they are downplayed. Y'all try to always argue that durability is trash and their physicals suck yet they don't. Jacob was overpowering base Natsu in physical, the same base Natsu who's not using fire was thrashing Wraith as soon as he touched him. He also used an attack on Mavis that almost shattered her crystal with one attack. The same crystal that took multiple hits from Fairy Glitter before Cana managed to crack and destroy it.

Spoiler

Natsu was using a named FDK spell in that final clash with Zeref. Against Acnologia, he was using his 7 fire dragon mode and was dragonized. They aren't even remotely similar to what Natsu used against Jacob. Likewise, secret arts are stronger than regular spells, and that secret art ended up doing nothing to Mercphobia anyways. When Natsu had Ignia's flames, he ended up using FDK spells to finish Mercphobia anyways. Neither of these are unnamed attacks in base mode by the way, which is what he used against Jacob.

Natsu used a regular attack before he used an FDK spell before Madmole. Twice. The iron fist wasn't right after his demolition fist. That iron fist was long after Natsu had already been captured, and fought Mercphobia a second time. He didn't follow-up the failed demolition fist with an iron fist. He followed up the failed iron fist with Purgatory. His FDK spells are simply stronger than his regular attacks.

Even on a basis of effort, like @Seven777 pointed out, Natsu didn't show that much effort into fighting Jacob.

Jacob's durability isn't trash, but it isn't that special either. He's no Madmole and he isn't on a completely different level to people like Brandish or Neinhart who also don't have amazing durability feats. What is trash about Jacob is his attack power. Durability wise, Jacob is decent. I would even give you that Jacob has better durability than Wraith. However it doesn't matter, because Jacob's durability is still not better than Natsu's, and Wraith can knock out Natsu. Jacob's attacks couldn't do the same to Lucy or Mirajane without any takeovers. Also, Cana held back her strength because she couldn't bring herself to hurt Mavis, and they even said as much. When she got serious, she completely shattered the crystal. Given that the vast majority of the damage came from the last hit, it's safe to say that the final hit was significantly stronger than the rest.

Spoiler: Cana specifically stating that she couldn't go all out

Spoiler: Cana, not holding back, shattering the crystal

Natsu in the Alvarez arc had nigh endless stamina as well, the only thing that taxed him to zero was DF and Igneel's magical power. Currently he's getting taxed by his LFD and Base form only lol.

Which simply goes to show that Gajeel is a much tougher opponent than any of the Spriggans that Natsu fought before, and LFD is a form that drains quite a bit of power from Natsu. Natsu's magic power didn't suddenly decrease from the Alvarez arc.

 

[Jko]

Spoiler: Shock

Natsu was using a named FDK spell in that final clash with Zeref. Against Acnologia, he was using his 7 fire dragon mode and was dragonized.

Secret arts are stronger than regular spells, and that secret art ended up doing nothing to Mercphobia anyways. When Natsu had Ignia's flames, he ended up using FDK spells to finish Mercphobia anyways. Neither of these are unnamed attacks in base mode by the way, which is what he used against Jacob.

Natsu used a regular attack before he used an FDK spell before Madmole. Twice. The iron fist wasn't right after his demolition fist. That iron fist was long after Natsu had already been captured, and fought Mercphobia a second time. He didn't follow-up the failed demolition fist with an iron fist. He followed up the failed iron fist with Purgatory. His FDK spells are simply stronger than his regular attacks.

Even on a basis of effort, like @Seven777 pointed out, Natsu didn't show that much effort into fighting Jacob.

Jacob's durability isn't trash, but it isn't that special either. He's no Madmole and he isn't on a completely different level to people like Brandish or Neinhart who also don't have amazing durability feats. What is trash about Jacob is his attack power. Durability wise, Jacob is decent. I would even give you that Jacob has better durability than Wraith. However it doesn't matter, because Jacob's durability is still not better than Natsu's, and Wraith can knock out Natsu. Jacob's attacks couldn't do the same to Lucy or Mirajane without any takeovers.

He used at then very end when he put every ounce of magic he had into it. He wasn't dragonized tho.

It is still a Fire Dragon technique not FDK tech. That secret art he thought was going to end Merc and he used it right after a Demo-fist and FDK Roar. Who cares about names? He trashed Jellal without even using a named attack back in ToH lmao. He beat Rogue without a named attack and was fighting him without using them as well.

He already fought him and thought it best to use FD Iron-fist rather than FDK Demo-fist. He never fought Merc twice...He didn't even fight Merc before he fought Madmole. His FDK flames are hotter but their power depends on the effort he's using. His FD attacks have been shown several times to used as a substitute for his FDK attacks against several high tier and God tiers.

How can use say his attack power was trash when he legit manhandled base Natsu in stats while he was backed up by Lucy? Natsu resorted to using FDKM to fight Jacob which is something he has yet felt the need to use with anyone in the current arc.

 

[WoWfan]

Yet with Savage Flames, it is smaller than most of his other attacks throughout the series, even no name attacks are larger and more destructive than his final attack against Zeref. Jacob was a genuinely strong opponent for Natsu.
Wraith attacked a weakened NAtsu with low magic, not impressive feat for Wraith, even when Jacob was actually delivering damage that a strengthened Makarov could deliver.
She attacked the ghost, not the crystal.

 

[Jko]

Spoiler: Shock

Natsu was using a named FDK spell in that final clash with Zeref. Against Acnologia, he was using his 7 fire dragon mode and was dragonized. They aren't even remotely similar to what Natsu used against Jacob. Likewise, secret arts are stronger than regular spells, and that secret art ended up doing nothing to Mercphobia anyways. When Natsu had Ignia's flames, he ended up using FDK spells to finish Mercphobia anyways. Neither of these are unnamed attacks in base mode by the way, which is what he used against Jacob.

Natsu used a regular attack before he used an FDK spell before Madmole. Twice. The iron fist wasn't right after his demolition fist. That iron fist was long after Natsu had already been captured, and fought Mercphobia a second time. He didn't follow-up the failed demolition fist with an iron fist. He followed up the failed iron fist with Purgatory. His FDK spells are simply stronger than his regular attacks.

Even on a basis of effort, like @Seven777 pointed out, Natsu didn't show that much effort into fighting Jacob.

Jacob's durability isn't trash, but it isn't that special either. He's no Madmole and he isn't on a completely different level to people like Brandish or Neinhart who also don't have amazing durability feats. What is trash about Jacob is his attack power. Durability wise, Jacob is decent. I would even give you that Jacob has better durability than Wraith. However it doesn't matter, because Jacob's durability is still not better than Natsu's, and Wraith can knock out Natsu. Jacob's attacks couldn't do the same to Lucy or Mirajane without any takeovers. Also, Cana held back her strength because she couldn't bring herself to hurt Mavis, and they even said as much. When she got serious, she completely shattered the crystal. Given that the vast majority of the damage came from the last hit, it's safe to say that the final hit was significantly stronger than the rest.

Spoiler: Cana specifically stating that she couldn't go all out

Spoiler: Cana, not holding back, shattering the crystal

Which simply goes to show that Gajeel is a much tougher opponent than any of the Spriggans that Natsu fought before, and LFD is a form that drains quite a bit of power from Natsu. Natsu's magic power didn't suddenly decrease from the Alvarez arc.

Except it is exactly the same. He used an FDKM attack to finish Jacob just like he used a DF attack to finish Zeref. Secret arts are still FD spells and they have been beaten out by FD spells before.

Wraith KOed a tired Natsu who couldn't even fight back. As soon as Natsu got his magic back he completely stomped Wraith. Lucy was literally the key to saving everyone if she was out then FT would be over as Jacob would've won and like I said in other team fights with Natsu she was just fine taking the same hits that almost killed him.

Jacob has shown way better durability than Neinheart. He was no selling Base Natsu's attack until Natsu pulled out FDKM.

She still didn't scratch it until the final hit and she used a lot of MP to the point she was on the floor and could barely move. It took a lot of hits to destroy Mavis soul form and crack the shell, which Jacob did with a finger gun lol. The amount of power he had was on par with Cana using a full out FG and Mavis body had taken multiple of them beforehand. FG maxed MPF which is something Jura couldn't do and she did that without breaking a sweat, current Cana should be way above that and she used multiple FG just to do what one attack Jacob did.