Discussion Jellal Fernandes Thread

[Laxus chan-yo]

This is a general thread for discussion regarding Jellal Fernandes. ~ahmadrizqik

Actually Jellal was not able to defeat a Spriggan on his own. Kagura helped him by taking Simon out when Jellal was vulnerable so as of now Laxus is the only person with that honor.

 

[XXEliteXXAceXX]

Actually Jellal was not able to defeat a Spriggan on his own. Kagura helped him by taking Simon out when Jellal was vulnerable so as of now Laxus is the only person with that honor.

Not really. Jellal was able to cast Grand Chariot and take down Neinhart with ease. He paused because he knew Kagura was watching behind him. He was unable to "kill" Simon for Kagura's sake. We saw her reaction when Neinhart killed off Simon. Jellal didn't want that to happen again but that was the only way he could kill Neinhart since Grand Chariot has such a large AoE. In the end, Kagura overcame her emotions and defeated Simon, giving Jellal the signal that he should proceed with his attack.

Spoiler

Jellal knew Simon was not real just like Gray. He couldn't care less if Simon died but Kagura was acting as some sort of barrier (similar to Lyon).

Spoiler

To be fair, Jellal defeated a Spriggan on his own just like Laxus.

 

[Loke]

Not really. Jellal was able to cast Grand Chariot and take down Neinhart with ease. He paused because he knew Kagura was watching behind him. He was unable to "kill" Simon for Kagura's sake. We saw her reaction when Neinhart killed off Simon. Jellal didn't want that to happen again but that was the only way he could kill Neinhart since Grand Chariot has such a large AoE. In the end, Kagura overcame her emotions and defeated Simon, giving Jellal the signal that he should proceed with his attack.

Spoiler

Jellal knew Simon was not real just like Gray. He couldn't care less if Simon died but Kagura was acting as some sort of barrier (similar to Lyon).

Spoiler

To be fair, Jellal defeated a Spriggan on his own just like Laxus.

Jellal was removed from the fight in the first few moments and likely would have drowned were it not for Kagura, so no.

 

[XXEliteXXAceXX]

Jellal was removed from the fight in the first few moments and likely would have drowned were it not for Kagura, so no.

That was because he saved Kagura first... I already stated that she prevented Jellal from being able to kill off Neinhart quickly. So you're telling me Laxus didn't solo Base Tempesta when he was taken out in the Tartaros Arc? He saved an entire town as well as Yajima + Thunder Legion. Also, note that the Raijinshuu actually attacked Tempesta whereas Kagura didn't do any damage to Neinhart whatsoever.

 

[Laxus chan-yo]

Not really. Jellal was able to cast Grand Chariot and take down Neinhart with ease. He paused because he knew Kagura was watching behind him. He was unable to "kill" Simon for Kagura's sake. We saw her reaction when Neinhart killed off Simon. Jellal didn't want that to happen again but that was the only way he could kill Neinhart since Grand Chariot has such a large AoE. In the end, Kagura overcame her emotions and defeated Simon, giving Jellal the signal that he should proceed with his attack.

Spoiler

Jellal knew Simon was not real just like Gray. He couldn't care less if Simon died but Kagura was acting as some sort of barrier (similar to Lyon).

Spoiler

To be fair, Jellal defeated a Spriggan on his own just like Laxus.

Wrong. Stop making assumptions. He was already mid cast and sweating. Completely vulnerable. Clearly from this fight we can see that his big spells take too long to cast and are not practical in a 1 on 1 fight but he needs someone to distract the opponent.

 

[XXEliteXXAceXX]

Wrong. Stop making assumptions. He was already mid cast and sweating. Completely vulnerable. Clearly from this fight we can see that his big spells take too long to cast and are not practical in a 1 on 1 fight but he needs someone to distract the opponent.

Assumptions? Everything I said was based off the panels. So sweating means he couldn't solo Neinhart? Look at Laxus sweating during his fight (even more than Jellal). But you still say he could solo Wahl. Vulnerable? Jellal was ready to cast Grand Chariot. The connection between Kagura and Simon was what stopped him from killing off Neinhart + Simon quickly. The amount of bias involved here...

Sure, spells like Grand Chariot takes time to cast and is not that practical. That is why Jellal's fight was not PoF unlike the person you keep defending.

Distract the opponent? In case you need a refresher, Neinhart just stood there. Whether Kagura/Simon acted as a distraction or not would not change the outcome. So why did Jellal have an open shot at Neinhart? Because he was scared to death. Not once was he distracted, rather he froze just from sensing Jellal's power...

The only reason Hiro Mashima included Kagura and Simon was to resolve the conflicts of the past. In fact, Jellal was the one being distracted (by Simon), not the other way around. Either way, it's not like Kagura helped Jellal by defeating Simon herself. I already said that Jellal didn't use Grand Chariot and kill off Simon for Kagura's sake.

 

[Crimson Ice]

Assumptions? Everything I said was based off the panels. So sweating means he couldn't solo Neinhart? Look at Laxus sweating during his fight (even more than Jellal). But you still say he could solo Wahl. Vulnerable? Jellal was ready to cast Grand Chariot. The connection between Kagura and Simon was what stopped him from killing off Neinhart + Simon quickly. The amount of bias involved here...

Sure, spells like Grand Chariot takes time to cast and is not that practical. That is why Jellal's fight was not PoF unlike the person you keep defending.

Distract the opponent? In case you need a refresher, Neinhart just stood there. Whether Kagura/Simon acted as a distraction or not would not change the outcome. So why did Jellal have an open shot at Neinhart? Because he was scared to death. Not once was he distracted, rather he froze just from sensing Jellal's power...

The only reason Hiro Mashima included Kagura and Simon was to resolve the conflicts of the past. In fact, Jellal was the one being distracted (by Simon), not the other way around. Either way, it's not like Kagura helped Jellal by defeating Simon herself. I already said that Jellal didn't use Grand Chariot and kill off Simon for Kagura's sake.

Don't use Laxus sweating as an excuse, he was sweating most because of his illness, while as for Jellal he didn't cast Grand Chariot not only because of Kagura or do you think Jellal would be absolutely guilt free for killing Simon a second time? The psychological battle just wasn't between Kagura and Simon Jellal was involved also while Neinhart was never frozen because of Jellal's strength, all of the sweating and freaking out came from the Irene and Erza connection. Jellal didn't beat Neinhart by himself, though, he is capable of it.

 

[XXEliteXXAceXX]

Don't use Laxus sweating as an excuse, he was sweating most because of his illness, while as for Jellal he didn't cast Grand Chariot not only because of Kagura or do you think Jellal would be absolutely guilt free for killing Simon a second time? The psychological battle just wasn't between Kagura and Simon Jellal was involved also while Neinhart was never frozen because of Jellal's strength, all of the sweating and freaking out came from the Irene and Erza connection. Jellal didn't beat Neinhart by himself, though, he is capable of it.

You entirely missed my point. Jellal sweating has nothing to do with him being unable to solo Neinhart. That is the message I want you guys to understand.

And yes, that is exactly what I think. Jellal doesn't care about killing Simon a second time. The first time wasn't his own doing. It was Ultear's and he knows that. He just feels sorry because it was his body but it was never his intention. Also, the second time around (fighting against Neinhart), he knew Simon was not real. He even warned Kagura when she was running towards him. In a sense, he is like Gray. They are both logical enough to figure out that they were going up against illusions created by their enemies. Even Erza figured it out... eventually...

There was no psychological battle here. The only one who was impacted psychologically was Lyon + Kagura because of their unstable emotions and Erza because she had such an unforgetful past with Kyōka (especially after getting tortured and humiliated). So in the end, Jellal did beat Neinhart by himself.

To think that I have to explain this chapter long after it was released is extremely appalling. I guess I should pay more attention and visit the Fairy Tail Spoilers/Predictions Thread more often because clearly, some just don't get it.

Also, using Laxus sweating is not an excuse.

Spoiler

Rather, using the fact that Laxus was sweating because of his illness is an excuse. Just look at all of these panels. He used Red Lightning and this was without his illness. So why was he still sweating? Because he used an attack like Red Lightning. Using any strong attack makes a character sweat. That much should be obvious by now.

Thought the sweat was the effects of his post-illness?

Spoiler

Nope. As you can see, it only takes one panel for him to recollect himself.

 

[Crimson Ice]

You entirely missed my point. Jellal sweating has nothing to do with him being unable to solo Neinhart. That is the message I want you guys to understand.

And yes, that is exactly what I think. Jellal doesn't care about killing Simon a second time. The first time wasn't his own doing. It was Ultear's and he knows that. He just feels sorry because it was his body but it was never his intention. Also, the second time around (fighting against Neinhart), he knew Simon was not real. He even warned Kagura when she was running towards him. In a sense, he is like Gray. They are both logical enough to figure out that they were going up against illusions created by their enemies. Even Erza figured it out... eventually...

There was no psychological battle here. The only one who was impacted psychologically was Lyon + Kagura because of their unstable emotions and Erza because she had such an unforgetful past with Kyōka (especially after getting tortured and humiliated). So in the end, Jellal did beat Neinhart by himself.

To think that I have to explain this chapter long after it was released is extremely appalling. I guess I should pay more attention and visit the Fairy Tail Spoilers/Predictions Thread more often because clearly, some just don't get it.

Also, using Laxus sweating is not an excuse.

Spoiler

Rather, using the fact that Laxus was sweating because of his illness is an excuse. Just look at all of these panels. He used Red Lightning and this was without his illness. So why was he still sweating? Because he used an attack like Red Lightning. Using any strong attack makes a character sweat. That much should be obvious by now.

Thought the sweat was the effects of his post-illness?

Spoiler

Nope. As you can see, it only takes one panel for him to recollect himself.

Did I miss the point? I never said that all in the first place.


Jellal wasn't feeling guilty, are you serious? He wasn't in control of his body but it was still his body that killed Simon and Neinhart even implies this, just because he wasn't in control doesn't mean he doesn't feel guilt. He isn't like Gray because unlike Gray Jellal beforehand never got any closure with Simon nor did he see him reflect back on Simon.


The fact you can't comprehend that Jellal feels guilt even though Neinhart himself flat out implies he does and the fact you think just because Jellal wasn't in control so he doesn't feel guilt is the only extremely appalling thing here.

Look at Laxus' condition, the fact you're bringing up he's sweating despite his HORRIBLE condition is hilarious. What does this even prove? Any strong attack makes a character sweat?

http://www.mangapanda.com/fairy-tail/479/19
http://www.mangapanda.com/fairy-tail/479/20
http://www.mangapanda.com/fairy-tail/434/15

 

[XXEliteXXAceXX]

Did I miss the point? I never said that all in the first place.

Yes. If you didn't miss the point, then you wouldn't bring up Laxus sweating. That analogy was directed towards another user and obviously used to prove that Jellal can solo Neinhart. Please read the post that I replied to before asking if you missed the point or not.

Jellal wasn't feeling guilty, are you serious? He wasn't in control of his body but it was still his body that killed Simon and Neinhart even implies this, just because he wasn't in control doesn't mean he doesn't feel guilt. He isn't like Gray because unlike Gray Jellal beforehand never got any closure with Simon nor did he see him reflect back on Simon.

I never said Jellal wasn't feeling guilty for killing Simon. You asked the question, "Do you think Jellal would be absolutely guilt free for killing Simon a second time?". Note the bolded words: a second time. This isn't the real Simon we're talking about in case you didn't know.

All I said in my previous post was that he can kill Simon again if he wants to. It was because of Kagura's presence that he was reluctant to do so. But lets assume Kagura wasn't there. You think he would still be traumatized by seeing Simon (the one he called an illusion)?

Let's get real. Push come to shove, if Kagura never killed Simon, Jellal would still destroy him and Neinhart. Why? Because if he didn't, then Neinhart will have a chance for a counterattack. After all, we already saw Jellal say he'll commit another sin if he has to.

Spoiler

In other words, Jellal wouldn't let his guilt get past him and he is willing to do anything (again) as long as he is able to save his friends, regardless of the past. That is proven by the manga itself. So yes, he would still have used the attack.

Actually, he is very much like Gray. Gray never forgave himself of letting Ur go, even if he got a "closure".

Spoiler

So, I still don't see how you can argue. Jellal never forgave himself from killing Simon which is the sole reason why he created a guild to wipe out dark guilds and Zeref himself. Both Gray and Jellal are sensible enough to know that the actual danger at present counts more than a psychological battle in their minds.

The fact you can't comprehend that Jellal feels guilt even though Neinhart himself flat out implies he does and the fact you think just because Jellal wasn't in control so he doesn't feel guilt is the only extremely appalling thing here.

That is twisting my words. I never said Jellal doesn't feel guilty for killing the real Simon. But this fake fight is an exception. I don't really put too much emphasis on what Neinhart says. Its only words and used for suspense. Other than feats, the only words that I count are words spoken by the character themselves (which Jellal already did many times) or if it is repeated many times by many different characters (not just Neinhart).

Look at Laxus' condition, the fact you're bringing up he's sweating despite his HORRIBLE condition is hilarious. What does this even prove? Any strong attack makes a character sweat?

http://www.mangapanda.com/fairy-tail/479/19
http://www.mangapanda.com/fairy-tail/479/20
http://www.mangapanda.com/fairy-tail/434/15

You still don't seem to understand the difference. Laxus struggled in his fight whereas Natsu didn't. That was a one-shot and apparently it wasn't too energy-consuming for Natsu. He still has Dragon Force and even stronger abilities. Actually, those panels you just gave me exemplifies the fact that Natsu defeated his opponents rather quite easily. Either he was going against fodders or he is simply just too strong that an attack of that magnitude doesn't make him exhausted as much as it did when Laxus used Red Lightning. You pick. All you've shown me so far is that Natsu > Laxus. Congratulations.

 

[Crimson Ice]

Yes. If you didn't miss the point, then you wouldn't bring up Laxus sweating. That analogy was directed towards another user and obviously used to prove that Jellal can solo Neinhart. Please read the post that I replied to before asking if you missed the point or not.



I never said Jellal wasn't feeling guilty for killing Simon. You asked the question, "Do you think Jellal would be absolutely guilt free for killing Simon a second time?". Note the bolded words: a second time. This isn't the real Simon we're talking about in case you didn't know.

All I said in my previous post was that he can kill Simon again if he wants to. It was because of Kagura's presence that he was reluctant to do so. But lets assume Kagura wasn't there. You think he would still be traumatized by seeing Simon (the one he called an illusion)?

Let's get real. Push come to shove, if Kagura never killed Simon, Jellal would still destroy him and Neinhart. Why? Because if he didn't, then Neinhart will have a chance for a counterattack. After all, we already saw Jellal say he'll commit another sin if he has to.

Spoiler

In other words, Jellal wouldn't let his guilt get past him and he is willing to do anything (again) as long as he is able to save his friends, regardless of the past. That is proven by the manga itself. So yes, he would still have used the attack.

Actually, he is very much like Gray. Gray never forgave himself of letting Ur go, even if he got a "closure".

Spoiler

So, I still don't see how you can argue. Jellal never forgave himself from killing Simon which is the sole reason why he created a guild to wipe out dark guilds and Zeref himself. Both Gray and Jellal are sensible enough to know that the actual danger at present counts more than a psychological battle in their minds.



That is twisting my words. I never said Jellal doesn't feel guilty for killing the real Simon. But this fake fight is an exception. I don't really put too much emphasis on what Neinhart says. Its only words and used for suspense. Other than feats, the only words that I count are words spoken by the character themselves (which Jellal already did many times) or if it is repeated many times by many different characters (not just Neinhart).



You still don't seem to understand the difference. Laxus struggled in his fight whereas Natsu didn't. That was a one-shot and apparently it wasn't too energy-consuming for Natsu. He still has Dragon Force and even stronger abilities. Actually, those panels you just gave me exemplifies the fact that Natsu defeated his opponents rather quite easily. Either he was going against fodders or he is simply just too strong that an attack of that magnitude doesn't make him exhausted as much as it did when Laxus used Red Lightning. You pick. All you've shown me so far is that Natsu > Laxus. Congratulations.

No I didn't miss the point, I brought up the sweating point because it's stupid.


I do know it's not the real Simon but it's as close as it will get, you know what I meant. Jellal could kill Simon but he himself was feeling guilty not just Kagura. If it was just Jellal and Simon do I think he would do it? Yeah, but he would hesitate at first.

Jellal says he would commit another sin because he was pissed Neinhart hurting Erza.


Just because Jellal was willing to do it doesn't mean he'd do it off the bat, just like how Kagura didn't put down Simon straight away and was even pissed at Jellal at first. Gray never let go but he got over it for the most part and he already has gone through some closure with Ultear unlike Jellal did. Plus him saying he killed Ur isn't him not forgiving himself he was trying to snap Lyon out of it. You can't pick and choose which words you want to listen to for any reason.


Are you dense? You said strong attack make people sweat you said nothing about their condition, don't try and twist things at all. Laxus struggled because his opponent was immune to his moves (LIKE NATSU AND ZANCROW) and he had an illness hindering him. While Natsu has no other strong abilities he was going all out against Zeref and he used Blaze Dragon King Mode, that is Natsu going all out. So no I didn't prove Natsu is stronger than Laxus (you blindly ignore all the handicaps against Laxus) all I proved is that the claim of using strong makes the character sweat is bullshit.

 

[XXEliteXXAceXX]

No I didn't miss the point, I brought up the sweating point because it's stupid.

And you blame me because of that? I'm the one who agrees with that statement. That was exactly my point the whole time in case you got the wrong person.

I do know it's not the real Simon but it's as close as it will get, you know what I meant. Jellal could kill Simon but he himself was feeling guilty not just Kagura. If it was just Jellal and Simon do I think he would do it? Yeah, but he would hesitate at first.

Still, even if this Simon is as close as you can get, it's still not the real one. Like I've been saying, Gray and Jellal are smart enough to understand that these illusions are the enemy's doing. They know the difference between fantasy and reality which is why they know Ur + Simon aren't real. Not to mention, neither of them falters because they have very stable emotions. That is why I've always put Neinhart as a Low-Tier Spriggan and arguably one of the weakest. Overall, I wasn't too impressed with his fights. The moment he appeared, the hype was killed instantly.

Jellal wasn't feeling guilty at all. Otherwise, when he first met Simon, he would apologize or something. Except he knows Simon isn't real. Anyways, you can say Jellal would hesitate but in the end, he would still kill Neinhart + Simon. So my point still stands. Jellal can solo Neinhart and did.

Jellal says he would commit another sin because he was pissed Neinhart hurting Erza.

I know why he said it. The point of that line was to show you that he would do anything for his friends. Meaning, if Kagura and Erza were in danger, he would protect them. Jellal showed that when he defended Kagura from Neinhart's attack. Except this time, instead of just defending, he would one-shot Neinhart, thus killing Simon as well.

Just because Jellal was willing to do it doesn't mean he'd do it off the bat, just like how Kagura didn't put down Simon straight away and was even pissed at Jellal at first. Gray never let go but he got over it for the most part and he already has gone through some closure with Ultear unlike Jellal did. Plus him saying he killed Ur isn't him not forgiving himself he was trying to snap Lyon out of it. You can't pick and choose which words you want to listen to for any reason.

Kagura and Jellal are different. Notice that Jellal wasn't even fazed by Neinhart's creations while Kagura was about to run towards Simon. Understand that Kagura has unstable emotions just like Lyon. I don't see why you keep applying everything about Kagura to Jellal. They are different. Just like how Gray wasn't affected by Ur's presence.

Not really. Everytime Gray sees a demon, he still remembers his past about Ur and never forgave himself about it. He still holds grudges to himself, to the point he would shed tears. He even swore to take down E.N.D because of it... Yes, Gray resolved his issues with Ultear but not Ur.

You can choose which words to listen to. That is how you differentiate between plain hype and reliable hype or one that is backed up by evidence. It also helps in understanding the context of the situation.

Are you dense? You said strong attack make people sweat you said nothing about their condition, don't try and twist things at all. Laxus struggled because his opponent was immune to his moves (LIKE NATSU AND ZANCROW) and he had an illness hindering him. While Natsu has no other strong abilities he was going all out against Zeref and he used Blaze Dragon King Mode, that is Natsu going all out. So no I didn't prove Natsu is stronger than Laxus (you blindly ignore all the handicaps against Laxus) all I proved is that the claim of using strong makes the character sweat is bullshit.

Well, like you told me earlier, you know what I meant. There is a noticeable difference in the two scenarios. One has a character struggling and the other one doesn't. If you don't see any logic to characters sweating, then why are you arguing with me? I'm not the one who brought up such a lame excuse. Also, I do take note of Laxus' handicaps but they cancel out with the PoF involved.

 

[Crimson Ice]

And you blame me because of that? I'm the one who agrees with that statement. That was exactly my point the whole time in case you got the wrong person.

Your example was stupid that was my whole point.

Still, even if this Simon is as close as you can get, it's still not the real one. Like I've been saying, Gray and Jellal are smart enough to understand that these illusions are the enemy's doing. They know the difference between fantasy and reality which is why they know Ur + Simon aren't real. Not to mention, neither of them falters because they have very stable emotions. That is why I've always put Neinhart as a Low-Tier Spriggan and arguably one of the weakest. Overall, I wasn't too impressed with his fights. The moment he appeared, the hype was killed instantly.

It's basically the real thing, it's as real as it gets and Kagura understood and still looked like she struggled to put Simon down in the end. Just because it's not the real thing doesn't mean it wouldn't have a mental effect on the fighters. You say Jellal wasn't going to falter but stopped when Simon appeared and Neinhart imnpies he can't kill him twice.

Jellal wasn't feeling guilty at all. Otherwise, when he first met Simon, he would apologize or something. Except he knows Simon isn't real. Anyways, you can say Jellal would hesitate but in the end, he would still kill Neinhart + Simon. So my point still stands. Jellal can solo Neinhart and did.

Jellal does feel guilty, why would he apologize off the bat? Erza has blamed herself of Simon's death and she didn't run to him to say sorry when she first saw him, stop using weak excuses, not to mention Jellal was taken out the fight right away and when he was back Simon was gone. Jellal CAN solo Neinhart but he didn't because he reciveved Kagura's help.

I know why he said it. The point of that line was to show you that he would do anything for his friends. Meaning, if Kagura and Erza were in danger, he would protect them. Jellal showed that when he defended Kagura from Neinhart's attack. Except this time, instead of just defending, he would one-shot Neinhart, thus killing Simon as well.

Not after hesitating like in canon, he still has guilt towards Simon.

Kagura and Jellal are different. Notice that Jellal wasn't even fazed by Neinhart's creations while Kagura was about to run towards Simon. Understand that Kagura has unstable emotions just like Lyon. I don't see why you keep applying everything about Kagura to Jellal. They are different. Just like how Gray wasn't affected by Ur's presence.

That was the first time Kagura had seen her brother since they were kids but couldn't believe it while Jellal knew that was a fake because he killed Simon with his own hands. We've seen Erza feel guilty over Simon but didn't arc like Kagura, not ever guilty person acts like Kagura.

Not really. Everytime Gray sees a demon, he still remembers his past about Ur and never forgave himself about it. He still holds grudges to himself, to the point he would shed tears. He even swore to take down E.N.D because of it... Yes, Gray resolved his issues with Ultear but not Ur.

Eevrytime he sees a demon like when? This was sorted out at the start of the Tarturos with Gray, Doriate and Ultear. And NO, Gray wants to take down E.N.D because of his father and not Ultear....HOW IS THIS NOT OBVIOUS.

You can choose which words to listen to. That is how you differentiate between plain hype and reliable hype or one that is backed up by evidence. It also helps in understanding the context of the situation.

I understood the context, did you? Plus him saying he can't kill Simon again isn't hype, do you even know what hype is?

Well, like you told me earlier, you know what I meant. There is a noticeable difference in the two scenarios. One has a character struggling and the other one doesn't. If you don't see any logic to characters sweating, then why are you arguing with me? I'm not the one who brought up such a lame excuse. Also, I do take note of Laxus' handicaps but they cancel out with the PoF involved.

The only time character's sweat is when they're in a shit condition while using the move, your example to prove you point was stupid. And no we've talked about this fight, there was no PoF and they last time we discussed this you said bullshit like "That should of been Biska's move not Laxus'".

 

[XXEliteXXAceXX]

It's basically the real thing, it's as real as it gets and Kagura understood and still looked like she struggled to put Simon down in the end. Just because it's not the real thing doesn't mean it wouldn't have a mental effect on the fighters. You say Jellal wasn't going to falter but stopped when Simon appeared and Neinhart imnpies he can't kill him twice.

Again... What does Kagura reacting to Simon have anything to do with Jellal? I already stated that Kagura is emotionally unstable. She hasn't seen her brother for a long time because he was killed. Jellal, on the other hand, understood clearly that this Simon wasn't real. Meaning, it won't affect him. I don't care what Neinhart says. Even if he says he can't kill him twice, this guy was at death's door. He was scared of Jellal's power and attacks that he would have said anything to calm himself or prevent Jellal from using such an attack. This guy is one of the weakest Spriggan. His stats are all low and he is pretty much a fodder compared to High-Tier Spriggans.

Besides, I already said that Jellal stopped because Kagura was right behind, watching him. He has no problem to continue with his attack but he thought Kagura did until we saw her kill Simon herself. At that point, he knew that she was okay with him using the attack and he did. So he did solo Neinhart. Simple as that.

Jellal does feel guilty, why would he apologize off the bat? Erza has blamed herself of Simon's death and she didn't run to him to say sorry when she first saw him, stop using weak excuses, not to mention Jellal was taken out the fight right away and when he was back Simon was gone. Jellal CAN solo Neinhart but he didn't because he reciveved Kagura's help.

Why would he apologize? You said he feels guilty. Anybody who possesses such guilt or remorse would seize the chance to apologize at a moments notice. The fact that he didn't tells us that he doesn't bother conversing with an illusion which is proven when he tells Kagura that Simon isn't "real". Kagura didn't even hit Neinhart once... And killing Simon was to give Jellal the signal that she has overcame her emotions, allowing Jellal to use Grand Chariot. So he did solo Neinhart whether you like or not.

Not after hesitating like in canon, he still has guilt towards Simon.

Guilt towards Simon? Yes. Towards Neinhart (his creation)? No.

That was the first time Kagura had seen her brother since they were kids but couldn't believe it while Jellal knew that was a fake because he killed Simon with his own hands. We've seen Erza feel guilty over Simon but didn't arc like Kagura, not ever guilty person acts like Kagura.

This is exactly what I'm saying. I don't even know why you argue with me when this is what I'm trying to tell you. Not everyone acts like Kagura. All 3 of them (Jellal, Erza, and Kagura) knew Simon died by Jellal's hands. Kagura was emotionally unstable so that is why she faltered. Erza overcame the Historia at the end of the fight. But Jellal knew from the beginning that all the "corpses" they saw were Neinhart's doing. He was easily able to attack them without any regrets.

Eevrytime he sees a demon like when? This was sorted out at the start of the Tarturos with Gray, Doriate and Ultear. And NO, Gray wants to take down E.N.D because of his father and not Ultear....HOW IS THIS NOT OBVIOUS.

When did I say it was because of Ultear? Read the part that you quoted me again. I said he resolved his issues with Ultear but not Ur. That has nothing to do with him wanting to take down E.N.D. And yes, everytime he sees a demon, he would remember his past. The whole Tartaros Arc, we could see that he was sort of in a depression. He was not once happy, actually he was gloomy. The past always affects him. He is sentimental. Nothing was sorted out with Doriate. All the encounter did was make him want to kill demons. And he sorted stuff out with Ultear for personal reasons (connection to Ur) not the demons...

I understood the context, did you? Plus him saying he can't kill Simon again isn't hype, do you even know what hype is?

Yes, I know what hype is and I did understand the context. You know what I was trying to say. Evidence that is backed up by what is done in the manga (feats) and evidence that is backed up by what is said in the manga (hype). I am just shortening it to lessen the amount of words you have to read.

Neinhart doesn't know anything about Jellal. That was the first time they met. Do you think Neinhart knows Jellal better than himself then? Of course, what Jellal says is more reliable than what Neinhart says.

The only time character's sweat is when they're in a shit condition while using the move, your example to prove you point was stupid. And no we've talked about this fight, there was no PoF and they last time we discussed this you said bullshit like "That should of been Biska's move not Laxus'".

Okay, well if we talked about this fight already, then there is no point in bringing it up. I still disagree with you on this so you can think whatever you want but I'm still sticking to my opinion.

 

[Laxus chan-yo]

Assumptions? Everything I said was based off the panels. So sweating means he couldn't solo Neinhart? Look at Laxus sweating during his fight (even more than Jellal). But you still say he could solo Wahl. Vulnerable? Jellal was ready to cast Grand Chariot. The connection between Kagura and Simon was what stopped him from killing off Neinhart + Simon quickly. The amount of bias involved here...

Sure, spells like Grand Chariot takes time to cast and is not that practical. That is why Jellal's fight was not PoF unlike the person you keep defending.

Distract the opponent? In case you need a refresher, Neinhart just stood there. Whether Kagura/Simon acted as a distraction or not would not change the outcome. So why did Jellal have an open shot at Neinhart? Because he was scared to death. Not once was he distracted, rather he froze just from sensing Jellal's power...

The only reason Hiro Mashima included Kagura and Simon was to resolve the conflicts of the past. In fact, Jellal was the one being distracted (by Simon), not the other way around. Either way, it's not like Kagura helped Jellal by defeating Simon herself. I already said that Jellal didn't use Grand Chariot and kill off Simon for Kagura's sake.

I never said that Jellal is incapable of soloing Ninehart. That is debatable. He probably can because he has a huge matchup advantage (doesn't have significant Historia and Nineheart is weaksauce asides from that). Jellal is clearly weaker than Laxus but imo he should be at least Erza level and thus he should take out Nineheart with that advantage. But he DIDN"T solo Ninehart. Kind of like Natsu probaby could solo Jacob but he didn't. Laxus is the only character so far who has truly soloed a Spriggan.

 

[XXEliteXXAceXX]

I never said that Jellal is incapable of soloing Ninehart. That is debatable. He probably can because he has a huge matchup advantage (doesn't have significant Historia and Nineheart is weaksauce asides from that). Jellal is clearly weaker than Laxus but imo he should be at least Erza level and thus he should take out Nineheart with that advantage. But he DIDN"T solo Ninehart. Kind of like Natsu probaby could solo Jacob but he didn't. Laxus is the only character so far who has truly soloed a Spriggan.

Jellal is on Erza's level? That is a severe downplay of Jellal. He one-shotted a Low-Tier Spriggan. So how would he have as much trouble as Erza did in her fight with Ajeel? Whether Jellal is capable of soloing Neinhart is not debatable. He already did. I agree Laxus is strong but so is Jellal (they are around the same level). We can't deny that and start fanboying over Laxus, saying he is truly the only one who could solo a Spriggan. Again, tell me how Jellal didn't solo Neinhart. Simon's presence didn't affect him. Hiro Mashima included Kagura's scene to resolve Kagura's grudge against Jellal and because she couldn't just stand there and be useless the whole time. Without Kagura in the picture, Jellal would have used Grand Chariot and kill his opponents in the same manner.

 

[Laxus chan-yo]

Kagura helped by destroying Simon ie helped fight against Nineheart. You are arguing against FACT. Drop it. I already said that Jellal is stronger than Ninehart because of match up advantage but HE DIDN"T SOLO. Without Kagura Ninehart wouldn't have let him use Grand Chariot because it takes so long to cast. Jellal would have had to use meteor to win or something. And nah Erza has shown far greater durability and endurance for me to comfortably place Jellal ahead of her.

 

[XXEliteXXAceXX]

Kagura helped by destroying Simon ie helped fight against Nineheart. You are arguing against FACT. Drop it. I already said that Jellal is stronger than Ninehart because of match up advantage but HE DIDN"T SOLO. Without Kagura Ninehart wouldn't have let him use Grand Chariot because it takes so long to cast. Jellal would have had to use meteor to win or something. And nah Erza has shown far greater durability and endurance for me to comfortably place Jellal ahead of her.

You keep going on about this and then tell me to drop it? Talking about a hypocrite...

Match-up advantage? That is what Neinhart's magic is... How would that be an advantage?

Grand Chariot takes too long to cast? Seriously? Jellal was ready to use it. Just look at his previous battles where he used Grand Chariot. It takes no longer than a few seconds. This is outright denial. Assuming that Jellal couldn't use it at that moment (which he clearly could have), what would Simon do to Jellal? That guy is fodder. Jellal wouldn't need to bother with him considering the power gap and timeskip difference. If you bring up the fact Jellal was impacted psychologically, you need to re-read the chapter.

Erza has shown nothing on Jellal's level. That is completely absurd.

 

[Laxus chan-yo]

His previous Grand chariots obviously lacked in power compared to this one. Jellal was seriously panting like he just finished a marathon after casting a single spell unlike the other times. If he wants to use it to you know actually be effective it takes a heck of a long time to cast and is impractical if he doesn't have support like Kagura.

Jellal has nothing on Erza's level in terms of durability and endurance but he makes up for it in speed and versatility so it kind of evens out.

Ninehart's magic works if you have an intimate connection to really powerful dead wizards. Jellal doesn't that is why no Historia came back to haunt him except stupid Simon, thus the majority of Nineheart's arsenal is null against him and Jellal has an obvious matchup advantage.

 

[XXEliteXXAceXX]

His previous Grand chariots obviously lacked in power compared to this one. Jellal was seriously panting like he just finished a marathon after casting a single spell unlike the other times. If he wants to use it to you know actually be effective it takes a heck of a long time to cast and is impractical if he doesn't have support like Kagura.

Jellal has nothing on Erza's level in terms of durability and endurance but he makes up for it in speed and versatility so it kind of evens out.

Ninehart's magic works if you have an intimate connection to really powerful dead wizards. Jellal doesn't that is why no Historia came back to haunt him except stupid Simon, thus the majority of Nineheart's arsenal is null against him and Jellal has an obvious matchup advantage.

Grand Chariot doesn't take that long to cast. It lasted 3 panels and that was with him pausing + reactions from other characters. Notice how Jellal pauses after Kagura's reaction to Simon. Then we have Kagura telling Jellal to use Grand Chariot in which he uses it almost immediately without any moments hesitation. That is because Kagura essentially gave him the "green light".

Spoiler

So it takes what? A few seconds? Surely, Jellal can cast it pretty quickly.

Jellal is not equal with Erza and here's why.

• Attack: Jellal > Erza
• Defense: Jellal < Erza
• Speed: Jellal > Erza
• Intelligence: Jellal < Erza
• Versatility: Jellal = Erza
• MP: Jellal > Erza

So Jellal still wins in endurance and stamina. Maybe not defense but he wins in virtually almost every other aspect.

So when Neinhart summoned Keyes for Juvia and Zancrow for Meredy, then you call that a match-up advantage? Those two should be fodders right now. That is like me saying "Because Wahl can find so many weaknesses in Ichiya, then he is at a disadvantage". That is just ridiculous.

The extent in which you go to make Jellal seem weaker than Laxus is just so biased. Why can't Laxus and Jellal be equal in power? Does Laxus always have to be the strongest wizard in your eyes? If so, then okay, but I won't buy that.