Fantasy Jellal vs Sabertooth

[grey matter]

@grey matter i get that but the problem is that whats the effects does it have? all we have to go by is hype. which to me i dont really rely on alot. feats>hype with the hype doesnt contradicts then i might accept it

It's probably a nuke from it's description/hype (destroy Magnolia or tower).
I take the hype regarding it seriously cause no feats contradict (cause no feats at all ).
I hope we see the spell in this arc, finally, but I wouldn't hold my breath.

 

[Vis]

It would be better to have 2 more than 1.

The entirety of Sabertooth and Blue Pegasus were destroyed by mostly Larcade and Bloodman. They're easier targets separately.

Yea and Larcade would wipe the floor with Jellal.

With hax, maybe you could argue that. In this particular battle, we're really just comparing their stats, and Larcade's best physical feat was blocking Kagura's sword, this doesn't change the fact that got hurt by Sting's physical blows, which should be way below Jellal's durability threshold given the fact that he was not even scratched by Kyria's roar.

Give me a feat he has that compares to that.

Lol ok. Rough Silk would near Ko Jellal if it lands

Could you stop repeating it without the proof I'm asking for? lol, at this point you're just gonna hold on to this argument with nothing to back it up.

There is no reason as to why Jellal's durability would miles ahead of Laracdes

Why not? Larcade was a hax-y person and an above average Spriggan in terms of physical stats and that's pretty much it.

Come on are you that slow?

Nice. You're adorable.

or Tartaros Jellal and Jiemma

During Tartaros Jiemma was a tank and that attack took him out. It's called getting stronger and now that attack could take out someone like Jellal. It's all about landing it.

If we're arguing this relative power level stuff, then why can't I simply argue that since Tartaros Jellal was superior to Erza, shouldn't he still be superior to her now based on this line of reasoning? Or at least comparable? Which puts him around Laxus' level? Do you actually think Sting and Rogue together can knock out Erza/Jellal/Laxus tiers? Especially with a single finisher?

Because honestly, I don't even see it knocking out Gajeel/Natsu(no DF/no FDK) level people.

He just doesn't have feats, All he has is one shotting Neinhart and his supposed "feats" against Acnologia have been wanked out of proportion. Based on feats a lot of people have surpassed him, it's all about his hype that's keeping him afloat

I see the comment that his feats against Acnologia's being referred to as wank at this point so let me just ask you this, who's the weakest 'good guy' can you see doing what he did without the use of dragon slaying attacks and such?

And I thought we were also using some relative power level stuff from previous timeskips? Are you now choosing to resort to the whole strictly feats act?

Tip: Read my post before you @me

Keep your tip to yourself. You're arguing this relative power level stuff for Sting but completely drop the ball when it's used for Jellal, but go off then I suppose, lol.

HE means relative.

If we take his hype at face value, Jiemma was a demon even stronger than Kyouka (which makes him at least as strong as x791 Erza), and x791 rough silk took him out.
This means that x792 rough silk would sale to x792 Erza (not saying it would take her out, she's a damn tank, but it would injure her significantly), since relative power levels between twin Dragons and FT members stayed around the same.

But power level is not relative. These characters' power levels differ every time skip with only really one constant, decent dragons are above all of them. I mostly really compare their performance in battles and their general portrayal when I'm judging these things. I only use the relative power level idea when we literally have nothing on characters. e.g. before Gildarts arrived in Alvarez, Crime Sorciere that August off-paneled, etc.

And no, I don't take Jiemma's hype at face value with the whole relative power level reasoning in mind. That would mean they levelled up to the point they would be a match for even Erza, which translates to their power level today, which means they would also be able to match Laxus. And at this point, at the very least, give Irene a good match. Which I can't help but think sounds a little too ridiculous.

 

[Ramen]

The entirety of Sabertooth and Blue Pegasus were destroyed by mostly Larcade and Bloodman. They're easier targets separately.


With hax, maybe you could argue that. In this particular battle, we're really just comparing their stats, and Larcade's best physical feat was blocking Kagura's sword, this doesn't change the fact that got hurt by Sting's physical blows, which should be way below Jellal's durability threshold given the fact that he was not even scratched by Kyria's roar.

Give me a feat he has that compares to that.



Could you stop repeating it without the proof I'm asking for? lol, at this point you're just gonna hold on to this argument with nothing to back it up.


Why not? Larcade was a hax-y person and an above average Spriggan in terms of physical stats and that's pretty much it.


Nice. You're adorable.




If we're arguing this relative power level stuff, then why can't I simply argue that since Tartaros Jellal was superior to Erza, shouldn't he still be superior to her now based on this line of reasoning? Or at least comparable? Which puts him around Laxus' level? Do you actually think Sting and Rogue together can knock out Erza/Jellal/Laxus tiers? Especially with a single finisher?

Because honestly, I don't even see it knocking out Gajeel/Natsu(no DF/no FDK) level people.



I see the comment that his feats against Acnologia's being referred to as wank at this point so let me just ask you this, who's the weakest 'good guy' can you see doing what he did without the use of dragon slaying attacks and such?

And I thought we were also using some relative power level stuff from previous timeskips? Are you now choosing to resort to the whole strictly feats act?



Keep your tip to yourself. You're arguing this relative power level stuff for Sting but completely drop the ball when it's used for Jellal, but go off then I suppose, lol.



But power level is not relative. These characters' power levels differ every time skip with only really one constant, decent dragons are above all of them. I mostly really compare their performance in battles and their general portrayal when I'm judging these things. I only use the relative power level idea when we literally have nothing on characters. e.g. before Gildarts arrived in Alvarez, Crime Sorciere that August off-paneled, etc.

And no, I don't take Jiemma's hype at face value with the whole relative power level reasoning in mind. That would mean they levelled up to the point they would be a match for even Erza, which translates to their power level today, which means they would also be able to match Laxus. And at this point, at the very least, give Irene a good match. Which I can't help but think sounds a little too ridiculous.

I will not repeat myself because I've said what has needed to be said and there is no point in "debating" with someone who thinks base Gajeel can tank a hit like this.


I'll leave this here

Spoiler: 1

Spoiler: 2

 

[Vis]

I will not repeat myself because I've said what has needed to be said and there is no point in "debating" with someone who thinks base Gajeel can tank a hit like this.


I'll leave this here

Spoiler: 1

Spoiler: 2

I'm not gonna force you to counter points you're unable to counter, but I never said Gajeel could tank it. Just that it wouldn't one shot him.

If you're gonna try to sound like a logical person, at least get that part right.

 

[Ramen]

I'm not gonna force you to counter points you're unable to counter, but I never said Gajeel could tank it. Just that it wouldn't one shot him.

If you're gonna try to sound like a logical person, at least get that part right.

Well there's no point in arguing with someone senseless. I've countered your points but you decided to look over them, that's on you.

Coming from you, that's hilarious.

 

[Vis]

Well there's no point in arguing with someone senseless. I've countered your points but you decided to look over them, that's on you.

Coming from you, that's hilarious.

You're right. I concede on all points that you countered by literally choosing not to respond to them. I apologise.

 

[Ramen]

You're right. I concede on all points that you countered by literally choosing not to respond to them. I apologise.

"Logical".....lmao scroll above

 

[Vis]

I'm really not up for some childish back and forth bickering so this is my last post regarding the matter with you, and this is not just for you.

1. If Sting can one shot Jiemma based on the line of reasoning of relative power scale through different timeskips and considering that Jiemma's hype was to be taken at face value, Sting would also be able to one shot Erza, and given recent events, would also make him able to one-shot Laxus with the same attack. Possibly do the same to even the likes of Irene. If that doesn't sound ridiculous to anyone here, then I don't know what else I can say. Characters grow at different rates in this series.
2. If we're following the aforementioned line of reasoning, Erza who was always inferior or at least on the same level as Jellal would carry him on her back, which means if it could one-shot Erza, it could also one-shot Jellal. At the very minimum, almost knock out Laxus. If the idea that Sting can damage these characters with a single attack (that did not even exhaust him) does not sound nonsensical, then so be it. But you can't argue Jellal would get one-shotted based on said line of reasoning, then deny that it would not one-shot Erza. Double standards.
3. If no one can give an honest answer who can fight off Acnologia the way Jellal (a non dragon slayer) did and continuously just call this 'wank' to bury the fact that they actually have no idea, then I honestly don't even know where to position myself here. It's being called out as 'wank' simply because most people on this site can't quantify the feat.
4. Larcade's durability can only really scale to the most durable Spriggan that's neither Irene or August.
   • Wahl was one-shotted by Laxus the moment his attack got through.
   • Dimaria was wrecked by END. (Erza blocked a bloodlusted onslaught from END and Gray with her bare fists)
   • Brandish was knocked out by Dimaria with a knife.
   • Serena only really tanked attacks from people who can only scale to Jura. (probably the most impressive one durability wise below the top three)
   • Jacob was one-shotted by Mirajane.
   • Neinhart was destroyed by Natsu.
   • Bradman got destroyed by Gajeel when he managed to touch him and land a decent attack.
   • Invel was wrecked by Gray's fists.
   • Ajeel was beaten by Elfman.

Which obviously does not help him much. So we go onto his direct feats: Larcade can no-sell Kagura's slashes but can receive damage from Sting's punches. Sting struggled to land proper hits on him and when he did, he knocked him out. Kyria's roar had the ability to leave Erza with some cuts and a basic slash could cut through Natsu. Jellal shrugged off this same roar alongside Laxus, which if we're following number 1 (read above), would still mean that Jellal would get one-shotted. Similar to how Erza would. Likewise to Laxus who would at least be heavily damaged to the point of almost passing out.

If this is what you believe, I'm not going to argue even though I would disagree, because at least there would be no double standards and hypocrisy

 

[Ramen]

I'm really not up for some childish back and forth bickering so this is my last post regarding the matter with you, and this is not just for you.

1. If Sting can one shot Jiemma based on the line of reasoning of relative power scale through different timeskips and considering that Jiemma's hype was to be taken at face value, Sting would also be able to one shot Erza, and given recent events, would also make him able to one-shot Laxus with the same attack. Possibly do the same to even the likes of Irene. If that doesn't sound ridiculous to anyone here, then I don't know what else I can say. Characters grow at different rates in this series.
2. If we're following the aforementioned line of reasoning, Erza who was always inferior or at least on the same level as Jellal would carry him on her back, which means if it could one-shot Erza, it could also one-shot Jellal. At the very minimum, almost knock out Laxus. If the idea that Sting can damage these characters with a single attack (that did not even exhaust him) does not sound nonsensical, then so be it. But you can't argue Jellal would get one-shotted based on said line of reasoning, then deny that it would not one-shot Erza. Double standards.
3. If no one can give an honest answer who can fight off Acnologia the way Jellal (a non dragon slayer) did and continuously just call this 'wank' to bury the fact that they actually have no idea, then I honestly don't even know where to position myself here. It's being called out as 'wank' simply because most people on this site can't quantify the feat.
4. Larcade's durability can only really scale to the most durable Spriggan that's neither Irene or August.
   • Wahl was one-shotted by Laxus the moment his attack got through.
   • Dimaria was wrecked by END. (Erza blocked a bloodlusted onslaught from END and Gray with her bare fists)
   • Brandish was knocked out by Dimaria with a knife.
   • Serena only really tanked attacks from people who can only scale to Jura. (probably the most impressive one durability wise below the top three)
   • Jacob was one-shotted by Mirajane.
   • Neinhart was destroyed by Natsu.
   • Bradman got destroyed by Gajeel when he managed to touch him and land a decent attack.
   • Invel was wrecked by Gray's fists.
   • Ajeel was beaten by Elfman.

Which obviously does not help him much. So we go onto his direct feats: Larcade can no-sell Kagura's slashes but can receive damage from Sting's punches. Sting struggled to land proper hits on him and when he did, he knocked him out. Kyria's roar had the ability to leave Erza with some cuts and a basic slash could cut through Natsu. Jellal shrugged off this same roar alongside Laxus, which if we're following number 1 (read above), would still mean that Jellal would get one-shotted. Similar to how Erza would. Likewise to Laxus who would at least be heavily damaged to the point of almost passing out.

If this is what you believe, I'm not going to argue even though I would disagree, because at least there would be no double standards and hypocrisy

I could really care less. I'm not going to read it, I've said my points take however you want

 

[Axiomus]

@Jean Grey @Ebony Maw @Axiomus
If I may, what is your opinion on this?

Does a character not using his top tier spells of the past currently, while still using the mid tier spells of the past currently; make the latter stronger than the former at present?
Context here is comparing the spell power of Abyss Break, Altaris and Grand Chariot spells of Jellal at present.

A bit late, but here's my 2 cents. I can accept that Abyss Break it's probably stronger than Jellal's regular spells like Grand Chariot, but I don't buy that it's superior to Sema. Sema is Jellal's only "true heavenly body" spell, and looks to be his strongest spell. That said, I only use concrete feats. So while Sema should logically be stronger than Grand Chariot, I'll only use it's most recent showings in the Tartaros arc. Abyss Break is featless, so I just disregard it altogether.

But all of this is pretty irrelevant. Because Jellal's showings against Acnologia is quite honestly enough for him to take it here. Nobody is going to be breaking past his barriers with blasts, and nobody is fast enough to tag him in CQC.

 

[WoWfan]

jellal takes this

 

[grey matter]

But power level is not relative. These characters' power levels differ every time skip with only really one constant, decent dragons are above all of them. I mostly really compare their performance in battles and their general portrayal when I'm judging these things. I only use the relative power level idea when we literally have nothing on characters. e.g. before Gildarts arrived in Alvarez, Crime Sorciere that August off-paneled, etc.

And no, I don't take Jiemma's hype at face value with the whole relative power level reasoning in mind. That would mean they levelled up to the point they would be a match for even Erza, which translates to their power level today, which means they would also be able to match Laxus. And at this point, at the very least, give Irene a good match. Which I can't help but think sounds a little too ridiculous.

From what I understand, what you're saying is that "we don't know if the relative power level between Erza and twin dragons stayed the same from Tartarus to Alverez".
It is ambiguous from feats, but I have reason to believe so due to Larcade going down from rough silk attack. Larcade blocked Kagura's swords with his finger lol, he has great durability as far as Spriggans are concerned. Is it Erza level? Likely not. But it is something, and Sting took him out. I understand if you don't buy it, cause comparing feats in Alverez arc is very difficult due to the BS and ambiguity involved in the arc.
As far as portrayal is concerned, Sting and Rouge have decent portrayal. It's like Elfman's portrayal, due to lack of screentime, we end up underestimating them, but their feats reinforce their position. I think dual elements Sting can at least give a mid diff to Alverez Erza

It's fine if you don't want to take Jiemma's hype at face value. I find it difficult to do as well, especially since he doesn't have feats to conclude it (it's a cycle, if you accept twin dragon's power then you can accept Jeimma's power; otherwise not).
But the portrayal Mashima showed was clear to me. That Sting and Rouge did reach respectable levels of power; and if they work together, they can defeat Erza level opponents (tho Erza herself no, cause her durability is infinite lol).
And yes, they significantly leveled up during GMG. Sting got massive boost when he raged at Jeimma and blew a hole through his stomach. Rouge got a powerup when Future Rouge awakened his shadows (went from jobbing to base Gajeel in his DF, to low-mid diffing base Gajeel). BS? Kinda, but Mashima gave them this boost.
And yes, I think they would give human Eileen a good fight. Human Eileen got overwhelmed by injured Erza (after Wendy was knocked out). It's Dragon Eileen who is in August tier, human Eileen has August level magic power but mediocre offence.

That being said. I'm not saying that a rough silk from twin Dragons will take down Jellal. It may not even land, considering Jellal is probably the fastest alive character in the series (IMO), maybe just behind DF Natsu. What I do think is that if it lands, it will deal significant damage on him. I don't see Jellal tanking two of those attacks.

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 23, 2020, Original Post Date: Feb 23, 2020 ---

A bit late, but here's my 2 cents. I can accept that Abyss Break it's probably stronger than Jellal's regular spells like Grand Chariot, but I don't buy that it's superior to Sema. Sema is Jellal's only "true heavenly body" spell, and looks to be his strongest spell. That said, I only use concrete feats. So while Sema should logically be stronger than Grand Chariot, I'll only use it's most recent showings in the Tartaros arc. Abyss Break is featless, so I just disregard it altogether.

But all of this is pretty irrelevant. Because Jellal's showings against Acnologia is quite honestly enough for him to take it here. Nobody is going to be breaking past his barriers with blasts, and nobody is fast enough to tag him in CQC.

I agree with that.
IMO: Self Destruction (one shot ) >> Sema > Abyss Break >> Altaris > Grand Chariot > his other spells used against Acno.
I don't strictly use feats to rank, because spells power up as mages power up as well. And relative spell power of spells should remain the same, since they're the same spells; so they scale IMO

I'm not sure how serious we have to take Jellal's feats against Acnologia. Cause the guy jobs if he's not fighting against Dragon Slayers.
But I agree that he's the top guy in speed, 2nd only to maybe DF Natsu (among living characters).

 

[sharkai]

And yes, I think they would give human Eileen a good fight. Human Eileen got overwhelmed by injured Erza (after Wendy was knocked out). It's Dragon Eileen who is in August tier, human Eileen has August level magic power but mediocre offence.

just want to butt in (sorry) and say august also has medicore offence, not greater than in any way from human irene
and human irene was never overwhelmed

 

[grey matter]

just want to butt in (sorry) and say august also has medicore offence, not greater than in any way from human irene
and human irene was never overwhelmed

August no diff'd Crime Sorciere.
Was about to no diff Gildarts as well. August basically stomped him in the entire fight, except one moment at the end, where he tanked Gildarts strongest attack (and the only time he could pull off an attack that August wasn't immune to).
He was also going to nuke the shit out of Natsu.

August >>> human Eileen by feats. There is nothing really that she could do to him, he'll just nullify all of her magic and use it back against her. And there is no reason why August won't have all of Spriggan 12's power (Except Bradman -curse, Wahl -machine and Serena - lacrima).
And he's vastly superior in speed and CQC as well - overwhelmed Gildarts in speed and CQC, blitz Gildarts (with meteor?) and Racer, likely overwhelmed Jellal in speed offscreen (who's probably the fastest 'good guy' in the series), has Jellal's meteor and racer's speed magic at the very least to complement his speed etc.

IMO, August = Dragon Eileen. That makes sense even from portrayal POV (cause if human Eileen = August, dragon Eileen >> August which doesnt make sense from portrayal POV, as well as from feats).

 

[sharkai]

August no diff'd Crime Sorciere.
Was about to no diff Gildarts as well. August basically stomped him in the entire fight, except one moment at the end, where he tanked Gildarts strongest attack (and the only time he could pull off an attack that August wasn't immune to).
He was also going to nuke the shit out of Natsu.

August >>> human Eileen by feats. There is nothing really that she could do to him, he'll just nullify all of her magic and use it back against her. And there is no reason why August won't have all of Spriggan 12's power (Except Bradman -curse, Wahl -machine and Serena - lacrima).
And he's vastly superior in speed and CQC as well - overwhelmed Gildarts in speed and CQC, blitz Gildarts (with meteor?) and Racer, likely overwhelmed Jellal in speed offscreen (who's probably the fastest 'good guy' in the series), has Jellal's meteor and racer's speed magic at the very least to complement his speed etc.

IMO, August = Dragon Eileen. That makes sense even from portrayal POV (cause if human Eileen = August, dragon Eileen >> August which doesnt make sense from portrayal POV, as well as from feats).

Crime Sorciere dont have durablity feat. and august is immune to all their magic. soooo

he never no diff gildarts. he was immune to his magic. but gildarts was fine through out. wasnt even seriously injured

that nuke was also featless.

not by feats.
august hasnt nullified anything at irene tier. and irene can enchant stuffs which would make it holder type, if its a weapon. august also hasnt copied anyone as strong as irene.

he is actually slow in speed. because gildart aint a speed str, while erza can move around laxus level speed
cqc is ok, i wouldnt put it above human irene though, because she could handle laxus tier character easily. and august was not overwhelming gildarts in cqc.

jellal is one of the fastest. he shares that with some other characters like laxus

dragon irene casual claw was far above anything august has shown. dragon irene casual swipe will one shot laxus, gidarts with ease. what august has of that level. deus sema is above that portrayal wise

protrayal wise, i wont disagree with you. but as far as i saw. human irene was compared to august, not dragon irene, no one talked about no dragon

with hax august can easily hang with dragon irene.

 

[grey matter]

Crime Sorciere dont have durablity feat. and august is immune to all their magic. soooo

he never no diff gildarts. he was immune to his magic. but gildarts was fine through out. wasnt even seriously injured

that nuke was also featless.

not by feats.
august hasnt nullified anything at irene tier. and irene can enchant stuffs which would make it holder type, if its a weapon. august also hasnt copied anyone as strong as irene.

he is actually slow in speed. because gildart aint a speed str, while erza can move around laxus level speed
cqc is ok, i wouldnt put it above human irene though, because she could handle laxus tier character easily. and august was not overwhelming gildarts in cqc.

jellal is one of the fastest. he shares that with some other characters like laxus

dragon irene casual claw was far above anything august has shown. dragon irene casual swipe will one shot laxus, gidarts with ease. what august has of that level. deus sema is above that portrayal wise

protrayal wise, i wont disagree with you. but as far as i saw. human irene was compared to august, not dragon irene, no one talked about no dragon

with hax august can easily hang with dragon irene.

Jellal is decent in durability. He was unscathed by Neinhart's nuke (he became unconscious because of injesting too much water; he wasn't injured by the attack at all, not even a scratch). He was unscathed by Kiria's roar in the spin off as well. Is that Erza level durability? Nah, no feats to support that, but he's decent enough. Not too shabby, mid tier at least in durability.
Cobra is Alverez base Gajeel level, and Midnight scales a bit higher (since Midnight always >= Cobra)
And August took them out without breaking a sweat.
Yes August is immune to magic lol. That's the point. The guy is broken, human Eileen isn't doing any better against him.

August basically stomped Gildarts dude. Gildarts was fine? He used up his only source of damage and it didn't do jack to August. And that too, basically only using physical attacks. August used crash for moving around, but fought Gildarts in a physical battle lol. If August actually used magic, like against Crime Sorciere, surely Gildarts would've been wrecked.
Anyway, August would've stomped him regardless, since he already demonstrated that he could tank Gildarts' strongest attack without immunity; and now Gildarts doesn't even have a way to harm August.

It was large enough to engulf mountains. But sure it's featless. I can agree there, though the implication was that it would've wrecked Natsu

Enchantment itself isn't holder, so no, he copies. He can't copy if the SOURCE ITSELF is holder (like cards or keys for eg). Hax works, by default, unless it's a tier above. He copies her magic.
Yes, Eileen can enchant a sword. August will proceed to nullify that enchantment, making it a normal sword again.

Gildarts >> Laxus in all stats, and Laxus in Alverez was easily above Erza, let alone an injured Erza. Erza overwhelmed human Eileen in combat. Human Eileen isn't touching August in combat.
What makes you think Gildarts is slow lol. By portrayal, he's on a different compared to the rest of FT guild (Except DF Natsu of course). And feats don't really disagree here. At best you can make the argument that feats are ambiguous since it's hard to compare, but nothing really disproves his portrayal.


Jellal is easily faster than Laxus. who is faster than Erza. Nobody among good guys beat Jellal in speed, except maybe DF Natsu. I mean, the guy is basically just pure speed and attack power, with versatility and some hax mixed in. That's what puts him in top tier, since his durability and physical strength is mediocre (compared to Laxus and Erza).

Laxus, Gildarts etc dodge that attack. It's just a typical dragon attack. Erza was caught off guard. Yes, Dragon Eileen > August in physical combat, I agree.
But Deus Sema was broken by Erza with broken bones, August easily breaks it. Come on dude.

Human Eileen has no feats comparable to August. She has magic power comparable to August, but other stats are quite mediocre.
August no diff'd Crime Sorciere (Jellal > Erza), stomped Gildarts. Human Eileen struggled against Erza. August >> human Eileen in attack power, speed and physical combat.
I'm pretty sure that Zeref and his closest aides knew that Eileen was a dragon, August was still seen as the strongest Spriggan. The portrayal is clear IMO

With Dragon Slayer magic (which he has had plenty of opportunity to copy - from Natsu and Eileen), August can easily defeat dragon Eileen.
But if we remove slayer advantage, they're equal IMO. Dragon Eileen is better in physical combat, while August is better in hax and magic.

 

[Vis]

From what I understand, what you're saying is that "we don't know if the relative power level between Erza and twin dragons stayed the same from Tartarus to Alverez".

A bit of an oversimplification, but I'm going to sum up my main arguments here.

• Relative power level isn't an irrevocable rule of thumb in Fairy Tail. People grow at different rates.
• Jellal is at least on Erza's level in terms of durability.

And most importantly:

• Larcade could get hurt from base Sting's basic punches whereas Erza completely blocked a bloodlusted onslaught from both Gray and Natsu (both of whom should be considerably above base Sting). Just because Rough Silk knocked him out doesn't mean it would heavily damage Jellal. It would, but not to a degree that would even threaten Jellal's chances of winning.

It is ambiguous from feats, but I have reason to believe so due to Larcade going down from rough silk attack. Larcade blocked Kagura's swords with his finger lol, he has great durability as far as Spriggans are concerned. Is it Erza level? Likely not. But it is something, and Sting took him out.

It is definitely one of the most impressive durability feats out of all Spriggans that's neither August or Irene, which just makes it sad, because we later see that Sting's basic attacks can do damage to him.

I understand if you don't buy it, cause comparing feats in Alverez arc is very difficult due to the BS and ambiguity involved in the arc.
As far as portrayal is concerned, Sting and Rouge have decent portrayal. It's like Elfman's portrayal, due to lack of screentime, we end up underestimating them, but their feats reinforce their position. I think dual elements Sting can at least give a mid diff to Alverez Erza

Sting and Rogue have decent portrayal, they're basically a weaker duo of base Natsu and base Gajeel, and Erza could block attacks from bloodlusted END and Darkness Gray (both of whom should be considerably superior to base Natsu and base Gajeel).

It's fine if you don't want to take Jiemma's hype at face value. I find it difficult to do as well, especially since he doesn't have feats to conclude it (it's a cycle, if you accept twin dragon's power then you can accept Jeimma's power; otherwise not).
But the portrayal Mashima showed was clear to me. That Sting and Rouge did reach respectable levels of power; and if they work together, they can defeat Erza level opponents (tho Erza herself no, cause her durability is infinite lol).

I can see where you're coming from, but I just don't see it. Sting and Rogue together worked against Bradman and Larcade, and from what we know, they were completely destroyed alongside their entire guild and Blue Pegasus. While I won't go as far as to say Erza by herself could've beaten them two together, I highly doubt she would go down without even putting up a fight.

I can see them maybe beating Gajeel together, I only really put WSD Sting around that level anyway (LFD Natsu/ISD Gajeel). Wouldn't go as far as to say Erza/Laxus/Jellal.

And yes, they significantly leveled up during GMG. Sting got massive boost when he raged at Jeimma and blew a hole through his stomach. Rouge got a powerup when Future Rouge awakened his shadows (went from jobbing to base Gajeel in his DF, to low-mid diffing base Gajeel). BS? Kinda, but Mashima gave them this boost.

I don't think it's bullshit, it's the theme of the series to begin with. What I don't think is that it boosted them up so far high that they can now beat Natsu at his best (no Dragon Force) after how they performed against him in GMG. Whereas I think Erza can. Conclusively, Jellal also would.
Their performance initially against Spriggans does not help their case either.

And yes, I think they would give human Eileen a good fight. Human Eileen got overwhelmed by injured Erza (after Wendy was knocked out). It's Dragon Eileen who is in August tier, human Eileen has August level magic power but mediocre offence.

That would imply they can also fight off human Acnologia the same way Irene did. I just don't see it if they couldn't even fight off two Spriggans.

That being said. I'm not saying that a rough silk from twin Dragons will take down Jellal. It may not even land, considering Jellal is probably the fastest alive character in the series (IMO), maybe just behind DF Natsu. What I do think is that if it lands, it will deal significant damage on him. I don't see Jellal tanking two of those attacks.

Kyria's roar can damage Erza and Jellal shrugged that off with not even a single cut in the current arc. So, I don't see it dealing anything more than superficial damage to Jellal.

 

[Axiomus]

I'm not sure how serious we have to take Jellal's feats against Acnologia. Cause the guy jobs if he's not fighting against Dragon Slayers.

Well, it's a good thing that the only real threat here is WSD Sting. Orga got oneshotted by Jura, whom Jellal could keep up with using Mystogan's copy magic. Minerva got beat down by Erza in Tartarus using just her bare fists. Rufus got oneshotted by Gray's regular ice-make spell.

 

[grey matter]

Well, it's a good thing that the only real threat here is WSD Sting. Orga got oneshotted by Jura, whom Jellal could keep up with using Mystogan's copy magic. Minerva got beat down by Erza in Tartarus using just her bare fists. Rufus got oneshotted by Gray's regular ice-make spell.

I'm pretty sure they improved (Minerva stalemated historia Wahl, Rouge stalemated historia Bradman, Ogra and Rufus scales to them IMO); but yeah I agree Jellal is taking this.

What is your opinion on Jellal vs Acnologia? Is there anything we can convincingly take from that?
In my opinion, only his speed feats can be considered even remotely credible, since he seemed to blitz Acnologia two or three times (but serious Acnologia could blitz him as well, and give him Serena treatment)

 

[sharkai]

Jellal is decent in durability. He was unscathed by Neinhart's nuke (he became unconscious because of injesting too much water; he wasn't injured by the attack at all, not even a scratch). He was unscathed by Kiria's roar in the spin off as well. Is that Erza level durability? Nah, no feats to support that, but he's decent enough. Not too shabby, mid tier at least in durability.
Cobra is Alverez base Gajeel level, and Midnight scales a bit higher (since Midnight always >= Cobra)
And August took them out without breaking a sweat.
Yes August is immune to magic lol. That's the point. The guy is broken, human Eileen isn't doing any better against him.

August basically stomped Gildarts dude. Gildarts was fine? He used up his only source of damage and it didn't do jack to August. And that too, basically only using physical attacks. August used crash for moving around, but fought Gildarts in a physical battle lol. If August actually used magic, like against Crime Sorciere, surely Gildarts would've been wrecked.
Anyway, August would've stomped him regardless, since he already demonstrated that he could tank Gildarts' strongest attack without immunity; and now Gildarts doesn't even have a way to harm August.

It was large enough to engulf mountains. But sure it's featless. I can agree there, though the implication was that it would've wrecked Natsu

Enchantment itself isn't holder, so no, he copies. He can't copy if the SOURCE ITSELF is holder (like cards or keys for eg). Hax works, by default, unless it's a tier above. He copies her magic.
Yes, Eileen can enchant a sword. August will proceed to nullify that enchantment, making it a normal sword again.

Gildarts >> Laxus in all stats, and Laxus in Alverez was easily above Erza, let alone an injured Erza. Erza overwhelmed human Eileen in combat. Human Eileen isn't touching August in combat.
What makes you think Gildarts is slow lol. By portrayal, he's on a different compared to the rest of FT guild (Except DF Natsu of course). And feats don't really disagree here. At best you can make the argument that feats are ambiguous since it's hard to compare, but nothing really disproves his portrayal.


Jellal is easily faster than Laxus. who is faster than Erza. Nobody among good guys beat Jellal in speed, except maybe DF Natsu. I mean, the guy is basically just pure speed and attack power, with versatility and some hax mixed in. That's what puts him in top tier, since his durability and physical strength is mediocre (compared to Laxus and Erza).

Laxus, Gildarts etc dodge that attack. It's just a typical dragon attack. Erza was caught off guard. Yes, Dragon Eileen > August in physical combat, I agree.
But Deus Sema was broken by Erza with broken bones, August easily breaks it. Come on dude.

Human Eileen has no feats comparable to August. She has magic power comparable to August, but other stats are quite mediocre.
August no diff'd Crime Sorciere (Jellal > Erza), stomped Gildarts. Human Eileen struggled against Erza. August >> human Eileen in attack power, speed and physical combat.
I'm pretty sure that Zeref and his closest aides knew that Eileen was a dragon, August was still seen as the strongest Spriggan. The portrayal is clear IMO

With Dragon Slayer magic (which he has had plenty of opportunity to copy - from Natsu and Eileen), August can easily defeat dragon Eileen.
But if we remove slayer advantage, they're equal IMO. Dragon Eileen is better in physical combat, while August is better in hax and magic.

jellal was fine after getting a bad matchup with august. remember him against aconlogia. so august did no real damage to jellal
i will agree with cobra=gajeel only and only if you believe erigir can give a zeref a fight. and and alverzec jura can give alverzec laxus (with no cancer) a fight.

jellal is not pure speed. he never was. this fan made stuffs. jellal has some speed magic, laxus has some speed magic. erza has some speed magic. nothing special here man
jellal has never shown to be faster than laxus or erza just like laxus has never shown to be faster than erza. again fan made

i am talking about attack power. so no dodging. dragon irene one shot gildarts. august cant to do anything near that

Yes, Dragon Eileen > August in physical combat you call that attack power mate, and you might wanna add couple more >

Deus Sema is dragon irene top tier move. stronger than her causal claw swipe.
portrayal wise august needs his top tier move to stalemate it.
feats wise, he just watches as it strikes and annihilate him and his mother.
he just doesnt have attack power of that freaking claw, how is he matching something much higher

actually i dont know why you keep on saying human irene is mediocre while august only has feats where his hax works. him soloing crime sorie is as good example of power as jacob clapping his hands of vanishing laxus and jellal and gildarts.
i will give you a hypothetical scenario
we have two people jacob and his boyfriend Max. they are equal in power, in stats (the springgan jacob from the manga). except jacob has clapping hax, max has fire punches
scene one
jacob vs laxus, jellal and gildarts
jacob claps laxus, jellal and gildarts all disappear and dies

Scene two
Max vs laxus, jellal and gildarts
what would be the result?


this is my point. august performed well against the above, because it was a bad matchup. only his hax carried him. other than that he has only one durability feat (gildart prosthetic attack) and no speed feat, keeping up with gildarts speedwise is nothing special unless you are claiming gildarts speed>jellal speed

jellal is not stronger than erza,nor is laxus (could you show panels where laxus is shown stronger than erza)
august never stomped gildarts, he was above gildarts but only because gildarts was fighting without magic (could you show panels where august stomping gildarts)
erza never overwhelmed human irene (could you show panels of erza overwhelming)

why would zeref tell anyone anything? do these people normally sit and chat about things like this. i mean i am trying to think of a chat where brandish finds out about irene being a dragon and serena dragon lacrimas
and brandish said they are equal.
the portrayal was that they are equal. with no mention of august copy ability and irene dragon


dragon slayer magic cant be copied nor can you learn it. dragon must be involved
base dragon slayer isnt taking out his equivalent dragon form
natsu<dragon natsu

feat you want to compare
human irene causally handle erza (erza is equal to laxus)
august handle gildarts (who cant use his magic)
comparable gildarts without magic vs enhance laxus


for durability
august takes gildart prosthetic hit to the face, we dont know whether that is gildarts strongest move or not. august seems not damaged but then kills himself
human irene ignores erza, full focus on a loli. enhanced erza (think enhanced laxus) with full charge strikes human irene, she doesnt even move.
durablity is comparable


i think the problem is you think erza is too weak. common problem
without pof
current erza = current laxus (maybe slight variation)
alverzec erza = alverzec laxus

there is no mention of huge jump for erza. laxus red lightening of alverzec is pof and should be compared to alverzec erza pof moment. if you want to say erza is weaker than provide some actual feats where erza failed and laxus prevailed


now if we allow august hax to work on human irene then irene hax also works on august.
so irene either turns him into a rat or separate his magic fom him. while august tries to nullify and copy her magic.