Discussion Just a random theory about Phanta, Arlene and Bam

[Pro Factor]

So reading some comments in the side story thread I got some theory about Phanta and Zahard and whatnot. Firstly the comment that made a lot of sense to me was this:

I don't think SIU has dropped the concept of axis. He's probably just altered it over the years.

After all the names for axis we got

The King of Artificial Creation
The King Of National Salvation
Conquering King


So it's likely that he's just dropped the name Axis and went for King to probably connect it to Jahad and why Enryu considered him to be a 'false king'.

I like this theory because it can actually tie into Arlene and Bam. But then I also saw this comment:

What could Arlene even possibly offer Phanta for her to make a deal with him?


The thing he wants and craves, he already has which is the jewels aka the shining ones.


Right now he's just ruling over creation along with his followers and causing tyranny.


Don't even see how she approaches him let alone cut him a deal.

And the question makes sense what can Phanta get from Arlene, but here is what I think if we take first comment as posible theory. Phanta declared himself King of Jewels just like Zahard declared himself King of the Tower, it’s quite possible that not everyone knows about Tower and we can assume Phanta isn’t really old being considering he was created after Luminous ones to hunt them, we can look at him something like Meruem from HxH, extremely powerful, but still newborn.

Imagine Arlene getting out of the tower and getting into the world where Urek is from and Phantaminum is god there, well King, let’s assume all Axis are kings of something like first comment suggested. So Arlene comes with a body of her dead son and she asks Phanta for help,but what can she offer to him? The only thing she can offer to him is information… She can say something along the lines “I will show you the place where fake king is, having a title that you have,and all I ask for return is that you revive this dead body and make him kill that false king”. On top of that she can offer to be his servant, while in tower she probably became extremely strong and might be a powerful servant at that, but that is not very important.

Let’s assume Phanta takes the deal, he doesn’t like the idea of somebody declaring himself king, after all there can only be one king, so he sends Enryu, possibly one of his jewels, or possibly not, to check if the information is true, or just to spread the message. Enryu gets into the tower, does his thing and that’s it. But Zahard learns about the thorn and the prophecy so he wants to prevent this, that’s when Phanta steps in himself and “talks” to Zahard how he shouldn’t mess with fate, and how he would kill him himself if not for the promise he gave to Arlene or something. At that point Urek also enters the tower chasing Phantaminum, but more importantly Zahard starts playing with fate looking for a way to avoid his fate, scared by Phanta he can not himself interfene with thorn, but maybe Phanta gave him some chance to stop Bam himself if he can without intervening personally, that’s why Zahard doesn’t chase Bam himself, but tells his army to do so, your guess here is as good as mine, I have nothing on that front why would Phanta allow Zahard to kill Bam but not personally, maybe something like “If you can avoid this fate by not getting involved personally I will allow you to live here and rule this place” or something along those lines.

Now timeline here gets tricky, even though I do not know when Zahard started playing with fate I just feel like it was before Phanta entered the tower, but it would make this theory crumble a bit, but not by much.That leaves point of V inside Bam and why would Phanta make it that way, maybe it was Arlenes personal wish, but after she learned what she had done she started calling Bam a monster, or maybe that was just bunch of bullshit spit from Rachels mouth to piss off Bam. Bam shinsu is dark and there was even “Dark Change” arc, Phantaminum was born from darkness and it’s quite possible that he gave Bam those powers (power of the outside god). While new side story for now just gave us a bunch of new questions, the amazing aspect of it is there are so many possibilities for new theories now.

 

[Ray Barracuda]

So reading some comments in the side story thread I got some theory about Phanta and Zahard and whatnot. Firstly the comment that made a lot of sense to me was this:



I like this theory because it can actually tie into Arlene and Bam. But then I also saw this comment:


And the question makes sense what can Phanta get from Arlene, but here is what I think if we take first comment as posible theory. Phanta declared himself King of Jewels just like Zahard declared himself King of the Tower, it’s quite possible that not everyone knows about Tower and we can assume Phanta isn’t really old being considering he was created after Luminous ones to hunt them, we can look at him something like Meruem from HxH, extremely powerful, but still newborn.

Imagine Arlene getting out of the tower and getting into the world where Urek is from and Phantaminum is god there, well King, let’s assume all Axis are kings of something like first comment suggested. So Arlene comes with a body of her dead son and she asks Phanta for help,but what can she offer to him? The only thing she can offer to him is information… She can say something along the lines “I will show you the place where fake king is, having a title that you have,and all I ask for return is that you revive this dead body and make him kill that false king”. On top of that she can offer to be his servant, while in tower she probably became extremely strong and might be a powerful servant at that, but that is not very important.

Let’s assume Phanta takes the deal, he doesn’t like the idea of somebody declaring himself king, after all there can only be one king, so he sends Enryu, possibly one of his jewels, or possibly not, to check if the information is true, or just to spread the message. Enryu gets into the tower, does his thing and that’s it. But Zahard learns about the thorn and the prophecy so he wants to prevent this, that’s when Phanta steps in himself and “talks” to Zahard how he shouldn’t mess with fate, and how he would kill him himself if not for the promise he gave to Arlene or something. At that point Urek also enters the tower chasing Phantaminum, but more importantly Zahard starts playing with fate looking for a way to avoid his fate, scared by Phanta he can not himself interfene with thorn, but maybe Phanta gave him some chance to stop Bam himself if he can without intervening personally, that’s why Zahard doesn’t chase Bam himself, but tells his army to do so, your guess here is as good as mine, I have nothing on that front why would Phanta allow Zahard to kill Bam but not personally, maybe something like “If you can avoid this fate by not getting involved personally I will allow you to live here and rule this place” or something along those lines.

Now timeline here gets tricky, even though I do not know when Zahard started playing with fate I just feel like it was before Phanta entered the tower, but it would make this theory crumble a bit, but not by much.That leaves point of V inside Bam and why would Phanta make it that way, maybe it was Arlenes personal wish, but after she learned what she had done she started calling Bam a monster, or maybe that was just bunch of bullshit spit from Rachels mouth to piss off Bam. Bam shinsu is dark and there was even “Dark Change” arc, Phantaminum was born from darkness and it’s quite possible that he gave Bam those powers (power of the outside god). While new side story for now just gave us a bunch of new questions, the amazing aspect of it is there are so many possibilities for new theories now.

The part of why Zahard is so obsessed with Fate makes a lot of it plausible ngl, still some holes especially with Phanta being so involved but I digress.


There's some truth there.


His Young data version said that when he looked in the mirror to gaze upon his future self he saw someone mighty but also saw deep fear within his eyes.



So yeah, without a doubt Zahard is definitely terrified of his death and might be what's making so desperate to try and mess with Fate.


But one thing is sure, he will fail.

 

[Pro Factor]

The part of why Zahard is so obsessed with Fate makes a lot of it plausible ngl, still some holes especially with Phanta being so involved but I digress.


There's some truth there.


His Young data version said that when he looked in the mirror to gaze upon his future self he saw someone mighty but also saw deep fear within his eyes.



So yeah, without a doubt Zahard is definitely terrified of his death and might be what's making so desperate to try and mess with Fate.


But one thing is sure, he will fail.

It would also make sense why he wants to close the tower, because for him death awaits him at the top. Maybe it’s like “you climb the tower first - you become radiant one” or some shit like that and Phanta comes and offs you. But if you don’t climb the tower first and lets somebody else climb the tower before you - tower ends and you go back to being nobody so he would rather rule as a king forever Those are random stuff I just said, but what I’m getting is how climbing the tower would be his death or at the very least downfall so he wants to prevent it.

 

[Ray Barracuda]

It would also make sense why he wants to close the tower, because for him death awaits him at the top. Maybe it’s like “you climb the tower first - you become radiant one” or some shit like that and Phanta comes and offs you. But if you don’t climb the tower first and lets somebody else climb the tower before you - tower ends and you go back to being nobody so he would rather rule as a king forever Those are random stuff I just said, but what I’m getting is how climbing the tower would be his death or at the very least downfall so he wants to prevent it.

Nahh, a slight correction.


Zahard closed the Tower at the end of his climb so even before the prophecy of his death arrived he didn't wanna go outside because out there he's nobody I guess so you're right on this front.


The tower made him somebody and he's paranoid and drunk on the little power he's gained.


At least that was unyil Enryu came tens of thousands of years later proclaiming his death while doing the impossible by killing an Admin.


His obsession with Fate definitely began after then.

 

[arrowofsky]

So reading some comments in the side story thread I got some theory about Phanta and Zahard and whatnot. Firstly the comment that made a lot of sense to me was this:



I like this theory because it can actually tie into Arlene and Bam. But then I also saw this comment:


And the question makes sense what can Phanta get from Arlene, but here is what I think if we take first comment as posible theory. Phanta declared himself King of Jewels just like Zahard declared himself King of the Tower, it’s quite possible that not everyone knows about Tower and we can assume Phanta isn’t really old being considering he was created after Luminous ones to hunt them, we can look at him something like Meruem from HxH, extremely powerful, but still newborn.

Imagine Arlene getting out of the tower and getting into the world where Urek is from and Phantaminum is god there, well King, let’s assume all Axis are kings of something like first comment suggested. So Arlene comes with a body of her dead son and she asks Phanta for help,but what can she offer to him? The only thing she can offer to him is information… She can say something along the lines “I will show you the place where fake king is, having a title that you have,and all I ask for return is that you revive this dead body and make him kill that false king”. On top of that she can offer to be his servant, while in tower she probably became extremely strong and might be a powerful servant at that, but that is not very important.

Let’s assume Phanta takes the deal, he doesn’t like the idea of somebody declaring himself king, after all there can only be one king, so he sends Enryu, possibly one of his jewels, or possibly not, to check if the information is true, or just to spread the message. Enryu gets into the tower, does his thing and that’s it. But Zahard learns about the thorn and the prophecy so he wants to prevent this, that’s when Phanta steps in himself and “talks” to Zahard how he shouldn’t mess with fate, and how he would kill him himself if not for the promise he gave to Arlene or something. At that point Urek also enters the tower chasing Phantaminum, but more importantly Zahard starts playing with fate looking for a way to avoid his fate, scared by Phanta he can not himself interfene with thorn, but maybe Phanta gave him some chance to stop Bam himself if he can without intervening personally, that’s why Zahard doesn’t chase Bam himself, but tells his army to do so, your guess here is as good as mine, I have nothing on that front why would Phanta allow Zahard to kill Bam but not personally, maybe something like “If you can avoid this fate by not getting involved personally I will allow you to live here and rule this place” or something along those lines.

Now timeline here gets tricky, even though I do not know when Zahard started playing with fate I just feel like it was before Phanta entered the tower, but it would make this theory crumble a bit, but not by much.That leaves point of V inside Bam and why would Phanta make it that way, maybe it was Arlenes personal wish, but after she learned what she had done she started calling Bam a monster, or maybe that was just bunch of bullshit spit from Rachels mouth to piss off Bam. Bam shinsu is dark and there was even “Dark Change” arc, Phantaminum was born from darkness and it’s quite possible that he gave Bam those powers (power of the outside god). While new side story for now just gave us a bunch of new questions, the amazing aspect of it is there are so many possibilities for new theories now.

So interesting, but I was also thinking about the V part. We always considered Arlene single-handedly found all things while preserving her son's corpse, but then, we got V fully and surely with his personality and stuff. Simply his presence.
The interesting thing is the Dark Change, or the devouring Sun are different from V. V is that "it is definitely and only me, my 0" thumb mark, and this thing originated after Baam's training within the Evankhell's realm, not really an interesting char anymore, with an old no name dude.
I am honestly bewildered by some mangas which putting so many different and sometimes conflicting powers in a MC body. In the Baam's case, though, it feels a bit pleasant to explain things.
One last thing as it is also discussed elsewhere, Arlene can offer so many things, and even many of her skills might still be of use outside of tower, too. Radiants or darkness, phanta being immensely powerful does not eradicate others completely. Hell, I would rather like to have a 10 chapter like Arlene spin off.

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 29, 2025, Original Post Date: Apr 29, 2025 ---

Nahh, a slight correction.


Zahard closed the Tower at the end of his climb so even before the prophecy of his death arrived he didn't wanna go outside because out there he's nobody I guess so you're right on this front.


The tower made him somebody and he's paranoid and drunk on the little power he's gained.


At least that was unyil Enryu came tens of thousands of years later proclaiming his death while doing the impossible by killing an Admin.


His obsession with Fate definitely began after then.

They were scared of 135th admin, among other things.
I know all the hype but I will not be so surprised if the 135th admin is celestially more stronger than these being ordered around lackeys, on-foot chasers and getting losters

 

[Ray Barracuda]

They were scared of 135th admin, among other things.
I know all the hype but I will not be so surprised if the 135th admin is celestially more stronger than these being ordered around lackeys, on-foot chasers and getting losters

Heh, a funny thought but no.


Headon is declared the strongest Admin in the Tower, the most transcendent as it called him I guess and dude is the guardian of the Tower and the one with the right to select who climbs it.


The 135th floor Admin isn't the reason.

 

[arrowofsky]

Heh, a funny thought but no.


Headon is declared the strongest Admin in the Tower, the most transcendent as it called him I guess and dude is the guardian of the Tower and the one with the right to select who climbs it.


The 135th floor Admin isn't the reason.

Strongest maybe, but not hostile. 135th was hostile.
Just think of the nature where very aggressive wolverine and stuff might take down bigger things.

 

[Ray Barracuda]

Strongest maybe, but not hostile. 135th was hostile.
Just think of the nature where very aggressive wolverine and stuff might take down bigger things.

Ehn, if that was the case then there's a stronger argument for the 3rd floor Admin ngl than than 135th.


For now, that Admin seems entirely disconnected from the reason Zahard locked the tower all of a sudden.

 

[V_TheHiddenAxis]

TL ; dr?

 

[Pro Factor]

TL ; dr?

TLDR Phanta is outside god and he doesn't like that somebody else is calling himself "king" so he sent Enryu to spread prophecy about "false king" then came to Zahard himself, but left it for Bam to finish Zahard off because Arlene asked so in return for information about existence of the tower and there is a false king in it ruling over it.

 

[arrowofsky]

TLDR Phanta is outside god and he doesn't like that somebody else is calling himself "king" so he sent Enryu to spread prophecy about "false king" then came to Zahard himself, but left it for Bam to finish Zahard off because Arlene asked so in return for information about existence of the tower and there is a false king in it ruling over it.

which means Arlene secretly in love with Zahard and just did not mind letting Zahard lives as long as they can resuscitate Baam with V in it.

...

Well, anything becomes problematic with the V's thumb mark white entry in Baam, then, what happened at the end of S3 etc. Otherwise, totally convincing for me.

 

[Pro Factor]

which means Arlene secretly in love with Zahard and just did not mind letting Zahard lives as long as they can resuscitate Baam with V in it.

...

Well, anything becomes problematic with the V's thumb mark white entry in Baam, then, what happened at the end of S3 etc. Otherwise, totally convincing for me.

Not really, what I said is that she wants her dead son to be the one to slit his throat so Phanta allowed that in return for the information itself, poetic justice for Zahard to be killed in the end by someone he has killed before. That's why Phanta allowed Zahard to survive, because he is destined to die by Bam hands.

 

[arrowofsky]

Not really, what I said is that she wants her dead son to be the one to slit his throat so Phanta allowed that in return for the information itself, poetic justice for Zahard to be killed in the end by someone he has killed before. That's why Phanta allowed Zahard to survive, because he is destined to die by Bam hands.

I know it is not what you said man. The real issue is I don't really see Zahard as the final boss or any boss to be killed by Baam. Baam faced data Zahard already and I got the impression of Zahard as the first villain antihero to later join the MC on a quest type char, I guess he will be similar to the Obito Uchiha from Naruto. Might be wrong or right. But since I think it in this way, and postponing some "nemesis" death for a poetic reason when you are actually a mother and your husband "commited suicide" equates me with the statement I made

What we heard about Arlene mostly had a psychological weakness character, not the other way around. But V things changed many things we thought we know.

 

[V_TheHiddenAxis]

TLDR Phanta is outside god and he doesn't like that somebody else is calling himself "king" so he sent Enryu to spread prophecy about "false king" then came to Zahard himself, but left it for Bam to finish Zahard off because Arlene asked so in return for information about existence of the tower and there is a false king in it ruling over it.

I like it

 

[NAMELESS]

I feel like we don't have enough information to cook a theory. We gotta remember we got a lot of info from Garam and that is biased in favor of Arlene. Why would Pentaminum even be bothered by a place as insignificant as the Tower. Zahard is an ant to him.

 

[maverickframe_19]

I, for one, do not believe that Arlene prayed with Phanta. I believe she prayed to another GOD/KING or even darkness (being who created Phanta)

Phanta outright ignored orders to return with the jewels. Maybe Bam is a new vessel for that darkness god. By killing Zahard, Bam fulfils the prophecy, and by killing Phanta with Urek, Bam corrects darkness' biggest mistake, which was to create Phanta.