Discussion Kaido Thread

[jackthai]

Well, but take crocodile back at ID.
http://www.mangareader.net/one-piece/540/14

The implication would be that fruit users keep their abilities while in contact with sea stone. However they are so absurdly drained of energy that they can't even turn into their element or use their abilities to escape it.

Now, the big question, does that make sense? Crocodile there is just walking around while wearing a kairoseki cuff. Does it make sense that he is able to move at all if he is so drained he can't use his ability? Well, that is a somewhat subjective point but even then it does not seem likely. Kairoseki would not be an effective countermeasure against fruit users if the nature of the user remained so to speak. Take luffy. If it worked the same as water then kairoseki cuffs would not be effective, luffy would just get his hands out without any major effort. Even crocodile and ace should have a relatively easy time freeing themselves from them.

It's very hard to say for sure what really happens when the user is in contact with sea and kairouseki, I think them both cause different effects on devil fruit users and I'm a little confused right now.

We have Luffy being able to stretch after sunk in the water back at Arlong Park and then Crocodile freely walking around with te hancuffs in ID and just not being able to transform into sand but neither having all his energy drained and Luffy after taking the Smoker Jiite on his neck have his energy drained.

My theory is the better the user master his devil fruit ability the less the kairouseki drain his energy to the point of just not being able to use the power but freely walking around without showing any side effects.

 

[Notice me Escanor senpai]

Concerning Kaido's tattoo I did some research and I find that his is closer to the Hawaian fish scale tattoo than the Irezumi, the Japanese tattoo

http://www.apolynesiantattoo.com/ta...too-symbols-meanings-fish-basic-elements.html
Like I said in chapter 795 discussion, the scales aren't a motif in the Irezumi. If it's supposed to be a Dragon, then he is usually portrayed fully, not just the scales.The scales are however a popular pattern in Polynesian tattoos.

Another thing is the Shimenawa which is the rope he's wearing. Usually it's used to ward off evil spirits, around any element who is believed that can be possessed by a spirit in Shinto,one of the two religions of Japan. Something similar to it is worn by the Yokozuna, which are champion sumo wrestlers because they are believed to be possessed by a spirit(yorishiro) as well.

Right now I'm more inclined to believe that Kaido is supposed to be an Oni(DF) and if we take into consideration that Momo is involved, and knowing the importance of Momotaro's story in the manga, it's not hard to imagine he could be an Oni.

 

[alhatmy]

I'm sure of one thing now ..
Kaido is having this army under him just to find new & strong people to fight and lose ! but he couldn't find yet !!

Its just like Tojo from (Beelzebub) he doesn't care about anyone following he just wants to find strong enough to lose ! fights with everyone .. then those people are working under-him by there selves

& one more thing
Kaido requested from Dofy to create STRONG devil fruits in order to lose to someone who can be strong with them !
Momonoski fruit is a copy of Kaido fruit him self .. it was a failure that means he wanted to create a stronger fruit before a cretin "Deadline" that Kaido gave Dofi ! until this moment MOMO got the best draft out of this Dragon fruit !

 

[Notice me Escanor senpai]

I'm sure of one thing now ..
Kaido is having this army under him just to find new & strong people to fight and lose ! but he couldn't find yet !!

Its just like Tojo from (Beelzebub) he doesn't care about anyone following he just wants to find strong enough to lose ! fights with everyone .. then those people are working under-him by there selves

& one more thing
Kaido requested from Dofy to create STRONG devil fruits in order to lose to someone who can be strong with them !
Momonoski fruit is a copy of Kaido fruit him self .. it was a failure that means he wanted to create a stronger fruit before a cretin "Deadline" that Kaido gave Dofi ! until this moment MOMO got the best draft out of this Dragon fruit !

No it's not, we don't know what his fruit is, and frankly it's too predictable. But that aside Kaido seems to have been doing all these preparations and getting SMILES just so he can start a war, which makes me really doubt his sanity. He's suicidal already, but he's willing to drag his whole crew to death just because he's bored with his life. It's not even like WB who did that to save one of his sons, to me it looks like Kaido doesn't really care about his crew.

 

[Copy Panda]

to be fair we haven't really seen any interaction between him and his crew, who knows how he feels about them at this point

 

[Australopithecus]

Momonoski fruit is a copy of Kaido fruit him self ..

That is possible. Anyone who declares the falsehood of this idea has to prove that it is false before saying such things. Otherwise, the opposition holds no value whatsoever.

 

[Notice me Escanor senpai]

That is possible. Anyone who declares the falsehood of this idea has to prove that it is false before saying such things. Otherwise, the opposition holds no value whatsoever.

The same applies to you good sir, you have to come up with a definite proof that
A-Kaido is a Dragon DF user
B-Momo's fruit is a copy of his.
Since we know virtually nothing about him at this point I can't see how someone can prove or disapprove anything. Guess we'll have to wait and see .

 

[Australopithecus]

‘The reason Kin might hold a grudge against dragons is most likely tied to Wano being terrorized by a dragon, before Ryuma defeated it and killed it. This is found in Oda's oneshot, called Monsters, where Ryuma, who looks a lot like Zoro, kills a Dragon.After doing so he became the hero of the island which most likely is now Wano. It was confirmed by Oda in the SBS that the Ryuma in the oneshot is the same Ryuma in the Thriller bark arc, effectively linking both stories. Ryuma is Wano's hero, and given how the story went in Monsters, it's because he saved the island (Wa no Kuni) from a dragon.He's most likely going to get the same backstory, but hopefully some things will be changed, mainly his appearance.’

Ryuma did NOT slay the dragon at Wa, and neither did the dragon terrorize Wa. He did so at another island, in which he happened to be.

Furthermore, when Flare, the girl who had her village burned to a crisp by the dragon Ryuma later slayed, was absorbed in her fear of dragons, Ryuma showed no ‘hate’, ‘grudge’, ‘anger’, ‘fear’ or any such feeling. Instead, he was wondering about its scariness.

Someone who had suffered the tragic attacks of a dragon or dragons at Wa would not be asking such question since the answer to it would have been known through his experience. So the surmise about the possibility that the people of Wa ‘hate’ dragons because their country gets attacked by dragons does not hold.

The answer to the argument that Ryuma did not use haki when he was slaying the dragon because we haven’t seen any is this:

Haki usage is both visible and invisible. One can’t say that he didn’t use it while it is possible to use it invisibly. When Zoro wounded Monet’s cheek, he wasn’t using hardening, but he was using haki nevertheless since she is a logia.


The answer to the argument that Kinemon’s ‘personal vendetta’ against dragons is due to the possibility that his wife was killed by a dragon is this:

The samurai at Wa are known to be very strong that not even the marines approach their country. When Ryuma killed that dragon, he did so without any trouble. It goes to show how strong his brethren are. Not only that but they were also shown to be able to use ‘hardening haki’. So defending themselves from a dragon should be a walk in the park.

Moreover, Kinemon himself had no trouble whatsoever handling that tough dragon at Punk Hazard.

With such man around, his wife or any other ‘frail’ member of his family has nothing to fear of dragons.

 

[Notice me Escanor senpai]

Ryuma did NOT slay the dragon at Wa, and neither did the dragon terrorize Wa. He did so at another island, in which he happened to be.

Furthermore, when Flare, the girl who had her village burned to a crisp by the dragon Ryuma later slayed, was absorbed in her fear of dragons, Ryuma showed no ‘hate’, ‘grudge’, ‘anger’, ‘fear’ or any such feeling. Instead, he was wondering about its scariness.

Someone who had suffered the tragic attacks of a dragon or dragons at Wa would not be asking such question since the answer to it would have been known through his experience. So the surmise about the possibility that the people of Wa ‘hate’ dragons because their country gets attacked by dragons does not hold.

The answer to the argument that Ryuma did not use haki when he was slaying the dragon because we haven’t seen any is this:

Haki usage is both visible and invisible. One can’t say that he didn’t use it while it is possible to use it invisibly. When Zoro wounded Monet’s cheek, he wasn’t using hardening, but he was using haki nevertheless since she is a logia.


The answer to the argument that Kinemon’s ‘personal vendetta’ against dragons is due to the possibility that his wife was killed by a dragon is this:

The samurai at Wa are known to be very strong that not even the marines approach their country. When Ryuma killed that dragon, he did so without any trouble. It goes to show how strong his brethren are. Not only that but they were also shown to be able to use ‘hardening haki’. So defending themselves from a dragon should be a walk in the park.

Moreover, Kinemon himself had no trouble whatsoever handling that tough dragon at Punk Hazard.

With such man around, his wife or any other ‘frail’ member of his family has nothing to fear of dragons.

Who said anything about that? Please try to stay on topic. I don't think anyone mentioned Kin's wife in this thread

---------- Post added at 03:00 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:45 PM ----------

Anyway regarding Kaido looking for a more heroic way to die,and that's why he didn't try to jump into the sea where normally he should drown if he's a DF user, I don't think that argument is valid. Because as we've seen in chapter 795 he jumped off a sky island, which means that at this point he's willing to do anything to die, even if it's something cowardly. Jumping from a building or a sky island is just as cowardly as dying by drowning.So if we're to assume he's a DF user, then he could just try to jump in the sea and die, unless something prevents him from sinking. And I can only think of one thing that is absolutely certain: someone who isn't a DF user wouldn't drown.
Now some can try to pretend that there are ways for a user to cheat this rule, perhaps by having an ability that would allow him to do that, but it's only assumptions. Nothing concrete have been given to us that could suggest that Kaido as a dragon or whatever wouldn't down if he were to fall into the sea. In fact Dragon might have a better chance than Kaido at the moment, since he was seen hovering above Sabo while saving him. We know he's a user and yet it didn't look like he was in contact with the water, for the exception of his arm, and we know his power is related to weather, back in Logue town he showed something like that. It would be odd if there were more than one person that could naturally not drown, and if anything all those who did used their ability, for example Kuzan, and they were never in direct contact with the water, let alone submerged in it.
And the best proof is Momo, when the eruption happened he was swept away, and if it weren't for Nami he would have drowned, even though he still retained his dragon form.

 

[Australopithecus]

‘It would be odd if there were mor than one person that could naturally not drown, and if anything all those who did used their ability, for example Kuzan, and they were never in direct contact with the water, let alone submerged in it.’

When Kuzan attacked Whitebeard at the War of the Best, he was shattered by Wb’s ability, and he fell to Marineford’s bay and ‘made contact’ with water. That’s how he froze the water and made it a solid footing for the battle to occur.

‘And the best proof is Momo, when the eruption happened he was swept away, and if it weren't for Nami he would have drowned, even though he still retained his dragon form.’

Vegapunk’s devil fruit is known to have a defect, and we don’t know what aspect of Momo’s ability is really defective. It is possible for the water incapacitation to be its defect. So that argument doesn’t prove a thing.

 

[haploid]

Re: One Piece Chapter 796 Discussion / 797 Predictions

is Kaidou a bull who ate the giant giant no mi?

 

[Fuuji Genichiro]

Re: One Piece Chapter 796 Discussion / 797 Predictions

is Kaidou a bull who ate the giant giant no mi?

there is no point to having one since choppers devil fruit allows him to become one

 

[mioluva]

Re: One Piece Chapter 796 Discussion / 797 Predictions

Maybe he doesn't have a devil fruit. If he did, and he really wanted to die, then he should've just jumped in the ocean.

 

[monkeydyummy]

I read a theory about a dragon in Greek Mythology(Ladon) that has 100 heads and guarding golden apples. Golden apples gives immortality to who eat it and the theory says Kaido ate the apple when he is prisoner in Mariejois.

 

[Fuuji Genichiro]

I read a theory about a dragon in Greek Mythology(Ladon) that has 100 heads and guarding golden apples. Golden apples gives immortality to who eat it and the theory says Kaido ate the apple when he is prisoner in Mariejois.

devil fruit....golden apples, mariejois
wow, i completely support that theory.

---------- Post added at 10:47 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:45 PM ----------

maybe kaidoh ate multiple devil fruits, i think it may be fat becuase the human body is generally too weak, but maybe whatever beast kaidoh is gave him a durable enough body to consume two, maybe two (mythical) zoan types or more

---------- Post added at 10:48 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:47 PM ----------

also dont think there could be a devil fruit that gives immortality........because brook already ate that one

 

[Notice me Escanor senpai]

devil fruit....golden apples, mariejois
wow, i completely support that theory.

---------- Post added at 10:47 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:45 PM ----------

maybe kaidoh ate multiple devil fruits, i think it may be fat becuase the human body is generally too weak, but maybe whatever beast kaidoh is gave him a durable enough body to consume two, maybe two (mythical) zoan types or more

---------- Post added at 10:48 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:47 PM ----------

also dont think there could be a devil fruit that gives immortality........because brook already ate that one

Brook's Yomi Yomi isn't immortality, it's resurrection.In order for it to activate he had to die once.
The only DF who is said to grant immortality at this point is the Ope Ope.

 

[monkeydyummy]

devil fruit....golden apples, mariejois
wow, i completely support that theory.

---------- Post added at 10:47 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:45 PM ----------

maybe kaidoh ate multiple devil fruits, i think it may be fat becuase the human body is generally too weak, but maybe whatever beast kaidoh is gave him a durable enough body to consume two, maybe two (mythical) zoan types or more

---------- Post added at 10:48 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:47 PM ----------

also dont think there could be a devil fruit that gives immortality........because brook already ate that one

The theory isn't about devil fruits.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8lXV4qnjZb0

Watch this video, although the apple in the video is fake, there is a myth about it in One Piece universe

 

[Fuuji Genichiro]

Brook's Yomi Yomi isn't immortality, it's resurrection.In order for it to activate he had to die once.
The only DF who is said to grant immortality at this point is the Ope Ope.

brook is immortal, im not debating this, this doeant mean he cant die, nor does it mean eternal youth, but brook is not by any means a 'mortal'

---------- Post added at 12:44 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:36 AM ----------

The theory isn't about devil fruits.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8lXV4qnjZb0

Watch this video, although the apple in the video is fake, there is a myth about it in One Piece universe

yeah im just saying it ties in to the 'forbidden fruit' allusions and themes in OP, and possibly explaning the unreasonable political power of the tenryubiitu, they Ae hiding something there, but i dont think its immortality.
why: simple.....doflamingo KNOWS the hidden treasure in mariejois, if there was this golden apple tree, and he knew about it, then why target the op-op for immortality? when he could simply raid mariejois (i mean, everybody seems to just walk up there when the admirals arent around) it just seems a little incompatible with the story

 

[Holt]

brook is immortal, im not debating this, this doeant mean he cant die, nor does it mean eternal youth, but brook is not by any means a 'mortal'

You just mentioned why he's not immortal. Immortality is being unable to die, that is, eternal life. Brook is very far from that. Brooks current situation might be a little weird but he's very far from an 'immortal'. As long as he can die (which he can) Brook is very much mortal.

 

[Fuuji Genichiro]

You just mentioned why he's not immortal. Immortality is being unable to die, that is, eternal life. Brook is very far from that. Brooks current situation might be a little weird but he's very far from an 'immortal'. As long as he can die (which he can) Brook is very much mortal.

NO, go google the meaning of immortal
it means you dont die by progression, meaning you dont die by aging of any sort. e.g
vampires (some) will die if exposed to sunlight
vampires dont age
vampires are immortal

in the very least, immortal means the opposite of mortal, which means 'inevitable death' it also refers to life, brook has neither, making him 'im-mortal'