Fantasy Kyria vs Jacob

[Seven777]

Man this thread has gotten crazy, half of it's not even Kyria vs Jacob lol.
Also no one has been nerfed, everyone in FT is far stronger than in Alvarez as per the statements of the new manga, the whole year timeskip and the actual improvements we've seen. Pretty much every FT member we've seen in action has displayed awesome new power.

 

[WoWfan]

Not really I'd say. It's just that Mashima fucked up with how he wanted the fights to play out.

He had decided on several fights taking place , but he really had no idea about how to execute those fights. Gray vs END. Erza vs Irene. Natsu vs Zeref.

So he decides to come up with some stupid powerups like Darkness and the Guild Mark.

Their base forms were never that strong if you look closely.

Base Gray got stomped by Invel. Base Natsu got oneshotted by Zeref the moment he decided it was time to stop playing around , it was DF which saved him. As for DF , it has always been portrayed as top tier since the beginning of the series , not really surprising. BoS Natsu <<<< BoS Erza << BoS Jellal << BoS DF Natsu. You see how much of a boost DF provides.

And even then his FDK Demolition Fist in DF even with PoF could not incinerate all of Zeref's magic , it failed , he was still able to rewind time. It was the power from the guild mark which helped him defeat Zeref.

I consider current DF Natsu > anyone in Alvarez though.

Actually he had the darkness thing planned out since the beginning of Alvarez with how the future went with Gray killing Frosc, and it was Savage Flames which it’s heat so hot it broke reality and allowed him to burn all of his magic away.

 

[Ramen]

Straight fucking bafoonery. Y'all can't tell what's a troll thread and what's not.

Smh. NeInHaRt>>DrAgOnS.

Hehe

 

[WoWfan]

grey, and Laxus power was ludicrously higher because of red lightning making him stronger than before with all the damage he took

Ajeel still scales to Spriggans who are large country at best, with a statement and the energy to go with it.
Irene was still superior to Erza and Wendy both and was technically the winner
Again, holding back, and Brandish reacts to her attacks despite her movement and attacks being point blank
It does when you are only high in magic power and doesn‘t help your physical form to improve
Almost, but not entirely, and even then Chelia was still strong enough to tank the rest of it.


Are you serious? You are suggesting all the things above yet you cannot believe that Erza and Jellal and even a ship can push Acnologia around? You need to be careful what you say when making counter arguments, they would be turned against you.

Yet he was serious against everyone else in the final battle and Erza knocked him down, with the current condition she was in
Acnologia was not defenseless as he was still acting on instinct as he knew what dangers there were, which made him just as dangerous.


And in volume statement holds more weight than any other manga statements especially from it’s creator.

Seven, those statements were immediate retconned in later showings of the series as the enemies and main cast have no feats that matched that of their previous showings

 

[Ebony Maw]

By feats Kyria kicks the crap out of a Transport-less Jacob. Her offence outright shits on his and she got KO'd by a stronger character.

The only argument Jacob has is hype, but that is a pointless argument here because the Spriggans are hyped with their full offensive capabilities, and Jacob is restricted here. Any appeal to hype should be completely ignored - Jacob didn't live up to it in the first place and he only fails harder with no Transport.

Core members of troll gang are pretty similar in both topics. Troll once, will troll again, right?

But there's a massive difference between saying Kyria can beat Jacob and Kyria can beat Acnologia

Well that is obviously the case when claiming Kyria does Something when she could not, like slicing off limbs when Jacob’s knife could.

Feats for Jacob's knife taking off limbs? (there's none, I'm aware)

You know the rule for team battles in FT?

Agreed with the rest

I'm highly sceptical of the team battle rule, unless I'm forgetting something major it only happened in Alvarez.

Agree.

I actually am on the fence regarding team Natsu currently.....especially Natsu and Gray.

Regarding Natsu/Gray in current arc and Alverez arc:
@Axiomus @Ebony Maw @WoWfan

I find merit in both arguments.

Logically, by scaling, Natsu and Gray should be stronger than they were in Alverez.

But I have reasons to believe there has been some retconns regarding this as well.

The portrayal in Alverez arc was that Natsu had convincingly flown past the rest of the guild mates, bar maybe Gildarts (which would be defeated by DF Natsu anyway). And he has feats supporting them as well.
Base Natsu was kinda holding his own against Zeref
DF Natsu went on par with Zeref (actually he was overwhelming Zeref), without any bullshit 'guild - friendship' powerup (that came only for God Zeref).
Natsu was clearly ahead of even Laxus tiers, comfortably, back then.

Darkness Gray was fighting on par with a more powerful version of END, than that which no diff'd Dimaria. And, both END and darkness Gray were progressively getting stronger in their fight as well.
Just stopping punches from END and darkness Gray almost shattered Erza's arms.

I don't think it's controversial to say that Natsu and darkness Gray were commonly regarded as at least a tier above characters like Erza (edited). You could check any 'strongest characters list' that came out during the final arc of FT - almost everyone considered DF Natsu in August tier, and darkness Gray was considered on or above Laxus tier

But it seems that, currently, the relative power levels have kinda been reset. Gray is convincingly below Erza and Laxus. In my honest opinion, he's relatively fodder right now. It seems that Gray no longer possess the 'darkness/demon' powers anymore.
Natsu still kinda is stronger than Erza. I doubt he's stronger than Laxus in FDKM, while in Alverez it was a given that Natsu was stronger in FDKM (at least IMO). Natsu currently struggled against Gajeel. The portrayal that Natsu had in Alverez, no longer exists in Hundred Year Quest arc.

I'm with @Axiomus in that I've always held Alvarez Laxus as > FDKM Natsu.

Not sure what to say on DeS Gray tbh, because I feel like he's going to get much better feats soon since practically everyone else has improved in some sense. As of now though, I wouldn't say Gray was nerfed, its just that he didn't go all out against Skullion straight away + Skullion is a tricky opponent to deal with. While E.N.D *should* be above Skullion by hype, E.N.D also doesn't have any insta-kill spells like we know Skullion has.

As for Natsu, tbf struggling with Gajeel isn't a bad feat at all and he wasn't using his most powerful spells in the slightest. I'll agree that Natsu may have taken a hit in portrayal, but he's still roughly performing as I'd expected he would tbh (outside of Madmole taking FDK Demo Fist so easily, but that's not a mark against Natsu, Madmole is just an absolute tank).

 

[WoWfan]

Ebony, he was about to cut Lucy to pieces when he threw the dagger, but Natsu blocked it and used his powers to melt it so it does not harm him, that shows the legitimate danger he posed to her

 

[Ebony Maw]

Ebony, he was about to cut Lucy to pieces when he threw the dagger, but Natsu blocked it and used his powers to melt it so it does not harm him, that shows the legitimate danger he posed to her

So as I expected, featless knife.

Natsu melting it doesn't mean the knife would have killed her on the spot, it just means Natsu wanted to protect her.

 

[WoWfan]

It would have, Natsu proved it by blocking it despite Lucy with her guard up, even commented that it would have been said with Lucy as just a head, that means it would have cut her to pieces.

 

[Ebony Maw]

It would have, Natsu proved it by blocking it despite Lucy with her guard up, even commented that it would have been said with Lucy as just a head, that means it would have cut her to pieces.

So you're telling me that Jacob's knife is somehow magically dismembering Lucy the instant it hits her?

The only Magics Jacob has is Transport and Stealth, neither of which would do that. Thus the most likely scenario is that Jacob was talking about what he would do throughout/after the fight. Jacob's knife as it stands is featless.

 

[WoWfan]

So you're telling me that Jacob's knife is somehow magically dismembering Lucy the instant it hits her?

The only Magics Jacob has is Transport and Stealth, neither of which would do that. Thus the most likely scenario is that Jacob was talking about what he would do throughout/after the fight. Jacob's knife as it stands is featless.

Even small Axes Can dismember large wood blocks without the blade covering the entire diameter, it is called Force. He is still strong regardless of that, taking hits from Natsu and even overpowering him while holding back

 

[Vis]

@WoWfan what difficulty do you see Jacob winning?

 

[grey matter]

The thing is....I've always considered Laxus stronger than Natsu in FDK mode. At least, once I seriously considered the fact that Natsu can't kill Spriggans with FDK, whereas Laxus could with his nuke or red lightning. I guess I still have DF Natsu in August tier, but that hasn't really changed in the 100YQ.

It's Natsu's character not to kill anyone.
It's not the same for Laxus. Also, Laxus used the rest of his remaining power on Wahl, who was defenseless and refused to dodge (cause he thought he's immune).
What I would say is that Natsu used just the amount of magic to KO Jacob, but not kill him.

I've also always considered Gray with his "darkness" as below Erza, which I considered below Laxus until very recently. Erza didn't really receive any serious injuries from Natsu or Gray's attacks, as she immediately fought Irene afterwards.

So where you had Gray and Natsu now....is where I've always had them. What this boils down to is that some characters were being wanked too much back then, and some characters were not given their due credit.

Well, I suppose that's subjective.
I guess, for me, the portrayal of Natsu and Gray (darkness/demon mode, normal Gray was fodder even back then lol) were clear in that arc. Especially Natsu. And feats didn't really contradict either, unlike they did for fodder 12

As for Erza. One of her arms was burned to crisp, the other was almost shattered by being frozen. She took lethal damage there, but none of that matters cause OP Wendy healing is there -_-
She healed up Erza with all broken bones, back to standing; healed up "DEAD" Juvia back up to fine and dandy; healed up Erza from two other near death experiences (vs Ajeel and Neinhart) etc
Not really surprising that she healed up Erza's arms

 

[WoWfan]

@WoWfan what difficulty do you see Jacob winning?

Jacob wins, low-mid diff

 

[grey matter]

Ppl mostly underestimate Larcade here, because he lost to White-Shadow mode Sting (ppl still believe Sting is trash, and it's not like it in real) and "speciality" of his magic.

I think Larcade could be more effective vs dragons then August.

I agree that S12 ppl have their own weakness, but some of them were down actually with unfair plot issues. With other hand - current DE still stay only with plot issues on their side.

Agreed that Larcade is massively underrated. I used to do that as well, in the first few weeks after his defeat.
Then I realized how powerful the guy was, and how much countered his fight was.

Larcade's magic got Laxus on his knees, floored Minerva and Rouge; and nerfed Gildarts, Zeref and Eileen.......while they weren't even his primary targets! They were nerfed by his spell's overflow.

Larcade's fight had the most counters in the entire arc:
- Sting counters Larcade's light magic by eat
- Sting eats pleasure magic
- Dragon Slayers can counter hunger by eating magic
- Shadow counters sleep magic

Larcade was just left with his physical ability, vs Dual Elements Sting + other characters. It's not really surprising that he lost after all that.

I disagree that Larcade could do jack to Dragons though. There aren't feats supporting that, and I'm not really the one to take 'statements' or 'hype' seriously in a manga like Fairy Tail that constantly shits on hype

 

[WoWfan]

Larcade affected Irene and she was a dragon, and stronger than her and the Spriggans are already stronger than most dragons, Sting also gained the strength of a Spriggan after eating his magic.

 

[grey matter]

Larcade affected Irene and she was a dragon, and stronger than her and the Spriggans are already stronger than most dragons,

Eileen's human form =/= Dragon form

Erza was able to damage her human form without DS magic. Normal magic and attacks affect her human form

 

[Verter]

Agreed that Larcade is massively underrated.

Well, ppl with DE hype eventually suffer shock when Sting stomps someone from DE side,
It's easy predict Sting and co join sequel battles eventually.

 

[WoWfan]

Irene was always a dragon, she cannot be human again, her appearance was just a facade, no real traits, correction, she has enchantment to back her up as well.

 

[Ebony Maw]

Even small Axes Can dismember large wood blocks without the blade covering the entire diameter, it is called Force. He is still strong regardless of that, taking hits from Natsu and even overpowering him while holding back

If his punches can't even majorly wound Lucy how is a knife throw going to exert enough force to instantly dismember her?

While being comparable to Natsu in CQC is decent, Kyria's feats against Erza, Lucy and Wendy show she's skilled in CQC too. The only area where Jacob may have an advantage is physical strength. IMO the gap between Kyria's offence and Jacob is a far greater factor in this fight than any gap between their physical strength.

 

[WoWfan]

Same could be said for Natsu since he could obliterate boulders yet could Not even punch holes through him. Point being, punches and blade weapons are different. Anyway, all Jacob need do is use stealth and break her neck