Discussion Laxus Dreyar Thread

[Yunkers]

Have you seen Laxus writing it?

http://i998.mangapanda.com/fairy-tail/473/fairy-tail-7059235.jpg
Middle panel. Laxus' hand writting last glyph in magic circle.

 

[BluePegasus]

http://i998.mangapanda.com/fairy-tail/473/fairy-tail-7059235.jpg
Middle panel. Laxus' hand writting last glyph in magic circle.

That doesn't proof he created the spell. He only activated it.

http://m.mangatown.com/manga/fairy_tail/v38/c473/16.html

 

[Holt]

That doesn't proof he created the spell. He only activated it.

http://m.mangatown.com/manga/fairy_tail/v38/c473/16.html

So how did it get there? This isn't making sense to be frank. Freed taught Laxus a spell that Laxus learnt and used. Also, the spell wasn't any trouble for Wahl. The barrier was basically for Laxus to trick Wahl into curing him, something that wouldn't have been needed in the first place if Mashima hadn't decided to nerd Laxus and Laxus was still fighting on par with Wahl despite his condition. Though it did prevent Wahl from firing his etherion but Laxus resorted to it because he was completely immobilized and couldn't move. Wahl could've charged and attacked with it later as well. I don't see why you're trying to discredit laxus victory. In the end, it was Laxus spell that hit Wahl and defeated him. An attack so powerful that Wahl couldn't analyse it. Now compare it to the jutsu Shiki which Wahl casually dispelled. Laxus clearly proved himself superior to Wahl.

 

[BluePegasus]

So how did it get there? This isn't making sense to be frank. Freed taught Laxus a spell that Laxus learnt and used. Also, the spell wasn't any trouble for Wahl. The barrier was basically for Laxus to trick Wahl into curing him, something that wouldn't have been needed in the first place if Mashima hadn't decided to nerd Laxus and Laxus was still fighting on par with Wahl despite his condition. Though it did prevent Wahl from firing his etherion but Laxus resorted to it because he was completely immobilized and couldn't move. Wahl could've charged and attacked with it later as well. I don't see why you're trying to discredit laxus victory. In the end, it was Laxus spell that hit Wahl and defeated him. An attack so powerful that Wahl couldn't analyse it. Now compare it to the jutsu Shiki which Wahl casually dispelled. Laxus clearly proved himself superior to Wahl.

I don't discredit Laxus. In fact I'd rank him as one of the strongest mages from Ishgar. I'm trying to say that Laxus didn't defeat Wahl just by himself. Yes, he gave the final blow. But still, Jutsu Shiki protected him from Ehterion. I don't understand why so many people say that Laxus created the spell. Laxus possesses Lightning Dragon Slayer Magic, not Dark Ecriture. Jutsu Shiki is Freed's spell. Thanks to Jutsu Shiki, Laxus is still alive. Laxus gave credits to Freed, not himself.

 

[Holt]

I don't discredit Laxus. In fact I'd rank him as one of the strongest mages from Ishgar. I'm trying to say that Laxus didn't defeat Wahl just by himself. Yes, he gave the final blow. But still, Jutsu Shiki protected him from Ehterion. I don't understand why so many people say that Laxus created the spell. Laxus possesses Lightning Dragon Slayer Magic, not Dark Ecriture. Jutsu Shiki is Freed's spell. Thanks to Jutsu Shiki, Laxus is still alive. Laxus gave credits to Freed, not himself.

Because Freed taught him the spell. No one said Laxus created the spell, but he learnt it from freed. And how will freed have passed the spell to Laxus? Freed was nowhere near. It's not like Laxus channel a lacrima or so with Freed's stored spell. Of course Laxus will give credit to freed because he learnt the spell from
him but you misunderstood what he was thanking freed for. It was because the spell eventually led to him getting cured. Laxus has probably been suffering since tartaros and because he used jutsu skiki against Wahl and the latter dispelled it, he got healed. He even said his regrets about having to attack Wahl since the latter technically healed him.

Laxus managed to learn fairy law after all and he can apparently execute perfectly. Learning a jutsu Shiki pales in comparison to that. So yes, Laxus did defeat Wahl himself. It doesn't matter that he learnt a spell from Freed. That's irrelevant in the matter. It would only be valid if Freed casted the spell for Laxus which wasn't the case.

 

[dannydoring]

Since a lot of people say that Laxus is Spriggan level or higher I think that Laxus is overpowered. Even though I think that Laxus is the strongest mage from Fairy Tail, he isn't the strongest mage from Ishgar. A lot of people say that he is stronger than God Serena which means he is stronger than the strongest mage from Ishgar. I disagree with that.

So who do you think is stronger than Laxus?

I'd say:
Jellal
Ultear
Hyberion
Wolfheim
Warrod
Spriggan Twelve
Zeref
Acnologia

You forgot about hibiki lates he could totally beat
laxus also. You have been posting negative things
about laxus for seemingly forever. Why are you so
angry at laxus..... he
stood up to hades, better then all of team natsu,
beat a guild in raven tail, beat jura of the wizard
saints, beat tempsta twice......i know you are going to
say and i don't care, because the anime gave laxus vs
tempsta grat animation and it was the best fight in tartorus
and alot of people agree, it already has over 200000 views
on youtube thatshould say something and read the comments,
10 percent are haters but the rest loved the fight and its one of their
favourite tartorus fights and he beat wahl ru icht on his
own with a spell he learnt from freed, by your logic all natsus fights
are igneels wins and all grays fights are urs wins can you see
how that sounds?

 

[Stormsfury]

I don't discredit Laxus. In fact I'd rank him as one of the strongest mages from Ishgar. I'm trying to say that Laxus didn't defeat Wahl just by himself. Yes, he gave the final blow. But still, Jutsu Shiki protected him from Ehterion. I don't understand why so many people say that Laxus created the spell. Laxus possesses Lightning Dragon Slayer Magic, not Dark Ecriture. Jutsu Shiki is Freed's spell. Thanks to Jutsu Shiki, Laxus is still alive. Laxus gave credits to Freed, not himself.

Freed taught Laxus the magic and then Laxus used it. It's literally that simple.

 

[XXEliteXXAceXX]

The point about about whether the Jutsu Shiki was Laxus' attack or Freed's attack is pretty clear. Laxus was definitely the one who used the attack with his own MP. However, I still have a major problem with this and I can see what BluePegasus means.

First of all, Laxus would have lost the fight without this plot induced feat. That should be a given considering his state beforehand. Many can argue that this cancels out with his disadvantage of having Magic Barrier Particles inside of him. Fine, I'll give you that. But... One way or the other. Not both. In that very same chapter, Laxus used Red Lightning to which the description never made sense. The whole memory of Yury was clearly Nakama Power and added nothing to the fight except downgrading Laxus' image. By the way, the explanation about the magic barrier particles was flawed itself, but that can be discussed another time.

Second of all, Freed teaching Laxus Rune Magic was totally nonsense whether you agree with it or not. There has never been a case in the whole series where this happened so it shouldn't be compared to anything else. A feat like this should take a long time to achieve and not just in one year; therefore, it should be classified in its own class. Just to clarify... Teaching Magic and Lending Magic are not equivalent. I can understand Igneel lending Natsu his magic. I can understand Silver lending Gray his magic. I can understand Mavis lending Cana her magic. What do they all have in common? Time Limit. They all eventually run out meaning that you won't be able to use it anymore unless you re-learn it with prior knowledge about it, just like Gray did with Ice Devil Slaying Magic. But Laxus was taught Rune Magic by Freed... One that, in theory, lasts forever... Meaning that Laxus now knows Lightning Dragon Slaying Magic and Rune Magic. Good job Freed. You just made yourself totally useless. Aside from the jokes, if it is really this easy, then Fairy Tail should just dedicate one year teaching magic to one another so that everyone has Elemental Magic.

Additionally, Laxus using Fairy Law is different from this situation. Fairy Law is not Makarov's magic. His is Titan's Magic. So it is legitimate for Laxus to use such a spell as it is one of the Fairy Tail's Top 3 Magic Spells.

 

[Holt]

My point about fairy law was it being an advanced form of magic. Was it stated that one can only use one type of magic? Makarov for example has shown little knowledge of other spells besides Titan magic (though tbf, I can't exactly recall if that's anime only. I could check but too stressful atm).
Also, a year is very long time. Even half a year is long. Fairy law being one of FT's top 3 magic spells means nothing here or is even a nod to how difficult it should be to master such a spell.

I'm not seeing what the big deal is with Jutsu Shiki. It's not like Laxus mastered the spell or has made it a primary one. It's not even a priority spell for him. It's something he resorted to when he literally had no other option and he used one that Freed taught him. It'll obviously be easier since Freed would've already mastered that spell and thus reduced the burden on Laxus than if Laxus had to learn the spell on his own without guidance. It's not like some more 'impossible' things haven't been done. Natsu has eaten lightning and Gajeel has eaten shadow and managed to incorporate this with their primary elements to give birth to a dual advanced mode. Natsu is always eating stuff he shouldn't be able to and this even extended to Gajeel as well. Future rogue eventually eats light too. How is Laxus legitimately learning a spell for freed any less logical than the mentioned examples? It's even more believable that he could learn the spell with a capable used in that field tutoring him.
Besides, whether or not its believable, the point is that it was done with Laxus power, so Laxus did defeat Wahl on his own.

 

[XXEliteXXAceXX]

My point about fairy law was it being an advanced form of magic. Was it stated that one can only use one type of magic? Makarov for example has shown little knowledge of other spells besides Titan magic (though tbf, I can't exactly recall if that's anime only. I could check but too stressful atm).
Also, a year is very long time. Even half a year is long. Fairy law being one of FT's top 3 magic spells means nothing here or is even a nod to how difficult it should be to master such a spell.

I'm not seeing what the big deal is with Jutsu Shiki. It's not like Laxus mastered the spell or has made it a primary one. It's not even a priority spell for him. It's something he resorted to when he literally had no other option and he used one that Freed taught him. It'll obviously be easier since Freed would've already mastered that spell and thus reduced the burden on Laxus than if Laxus had to learn the spell on his own without guidance. It's not like some more 'impossible' things haven't been done. Natsu has eaten lightning and Gajeel has eaten shadow and managed to incorporate this with their primary elements to give birth to a dual advanced mode. Natsu is always eating stuff he shouldn't be able to and this even extended to Gajeel as well. Future rogue eventually eats light too. How is Laxus legitimately learning a spell for freed any less logical than the mentioned examples? It's even more believable that he could learn the spell with a capable used in that field tutoring him.
Besides, whether or not its believable, the point is that it was done with Laxus power, so Laxus did defeat Wahl on his own.

Dual magic is not a problem because it is essentially not a new type of magic. As long as the user combines it with their own, it would serve more like a "power-up". There is a reason why Hiro Mashima never let a character learn magic from another character because then there is no point of having unique characters with their own special type of magic anymore. A prime example is the filler episode in the anime where Mirajane teaches Natsu, Lucy, and Happy how to master Takeover Magic with Macao along with Wakaba watching. Hiro Mashima could have easily decided to use that chance to make Natsu and Gray OP but he didn't. That is why the episode is filler.

As for how I said that it should take a long time to learn magic, we've seen it with Gray spending his whole childhood learning Ice-Make Magic. We have Lucy who has greatly improved since the beginning of the series where she was really inexperienced with using her Celestial Spirit Magic. We have Ultear who studied really hard from Hades' books just to learn Arc of Time Magic. We have all the Dragon Slayers learning Dragon Slaying Magic from their respective dragons since they were a kid.

Honestly, I can go on and on... One year is not that long if we put the whole timeline of Fairy Tail into perspective. Even if Laxus were to train for 24 hours straight, every single day... It most likely won't be sufficient. There is nothing wrong with all of us admitting that Laxus' fight with Wahl had some problems. Again, nobody should put down Laxus for losing against a Spriggan but the events during that fight should be analyzed fairly. After all, I've already said in the past that every character has unrealistic feats at one point in the story so nobody is perfect. That is why I don't see the logic behind critizing Erza for her illogical feats.

 

[Brandish μ]

I am still not clear on what Red Lightning is. I was thinking it was Nakama/PoF mainly because I don't know where the 'red' part came from. But if he named the spell I assume the 'red' part is something he's designed or intended, and in that way Raiko is simply a powerful spell that he's created. PoF might have still been sourced to give him an extra boost perhaps if that's how you want to view the flashback. I'm seeing the flashback/Yury as something which gives the 'red' part in the lightning some meaning, and an insight into Laxus' dedication to protect the guild. They learned stuff in the time-skip, so we gotta expect things to appear out of the blue.

As for Freed teaching Laxus magic I don't see the problem in that people learning magic isn't something impossible, if you put the time into learning a spell you could likely use it. There's no doubt that lightning is Laxus' primary magic, or in other words the magic he has greatest affinity for. But he's shown that he can use Fairy Law, Organic Link magic and thought projections... so at the very least we've seen him use other spells outside of lightning. The fact that he can use Fairy Law should demonstrate that he has the ability to learn spells of high difficulty. I can understand if someone dislikes Laxus or dislikes the concept of him using Freed's magic, but I can't understand why Laxus shouldn't be able to use a Jutsu shiki within the context of the FT verse.

 

[Firepower]

Freed didn't invent that magic spell either. He learned it from a person or a book. He's known for barrier magic, but the origin of these spells did not come from him. If Laxus made the spell on his own, which he did, he deserves credit for soloing Wahl. In a scenario where he didn't create that jutsu shiki, you can give credit to Freed for the help, but you'd have to credit Tespesta for helping Wahl too. Regardless of any of that, a healthy Laxus split this spriggan in two, proving he's he's at least spriggan level.

 

[XXEliteXXAceXX]

I am still not clear on what Red Lightning is. I was thinking it was Nakama/PoF mainly because I don't know where the 'red' part came from. But if he named the spell I assume the 'red' part is something he's designed or intended, and in that way Raiko is simply a powerful spell that he's created. PoF might have still been sourced to give him an extra boost perhaps if that's how you want to view the flashback. I'm seeing the flashback/Yury as something which gives the 'red' part in the lightning some meaning, and an insight into Laxus' dedication to protect the guild. They learned stuff in the time-skip, so we gotta expect things to appear out of the blue.

As for Freed teaching Laxus magic I don't see the problem in that people learning magic isn't something impossible, if you put the time into learning a spell you could likely use it. There's no doubt that lightning is Laxus' primary magic, or in other words the magic he has greatest affinity for. But he's shown that he can use Fairy Law, Organic Link magic and thought projections... so at the very least we've seen him use other spells outside of lightning. The fact that he can use Fairy Law should demonstrate that he has the ability to learn spells of high difficulty. I can understand if someone dislikes Laxus or dislikes the concept of him using Freed's magic, but I can't understand why Laxus shouldn't be able to use a Jutsu shiki within the context of the FT verse.

Yeah, we need further logical explanations for Laxus' Red Lightning. However, that still doesn't make it a legit feat either. I don't reject the idea of Laxus becoming stronger but I felt that the feat he used against Wahl was a cheap-shot. Wahl was hyped to be a counter to Laxus and then we see his lightning that is still lightning take Wahl out in one hit. It is true that we have to expect a character to have new attacks like the attacks we've seen from Natsu or Gray but not like Laxus. The portrayal and explanation for his attack didn't make sense.

Sure, anybody can learn a spell from dedicating time but just how much? We disagree here because I don't think it should be so simple as to one year or Jellal should just come back using Black Magic... Organic Link Magic is very similar to Dual Elements in a way that Laxus still used Lightning Magic. I'm sorry, I don't remember what thought projections were. Hopefully you can remind me of it. I don't know about everyone else but I always got the impression that anybody in Fairy Tail can use Fairy Law as long as they have the capability to do so. Maybe someone can prove me wrong.

 

[Yunkers]

Mirajane is not good example. Firstly, it's not anime filler, but manga special chapter. Secondly, Mirajane wasn't teaching Takeover, she'w teaching Transform Magic. Yes, Mirajane knows two different magic Takeover AND Tranform. But we have already seen many characters that knows many magic. Ultear--Ice-Make, Arc of Time and Transform; all Raijinshu members know two magics (eyes magic as primary and actually Jutsu Shiki is not Freed primary magic, it's Dark Écriture); Jellal can use A LOT OF types of magic; Mest can use Teleportation and Memory Magic. There are mant characters that can use different types of magic, so it shouldn't be a problem if Laxus learn second too. Probably Laxus know only basics, it's also possible that he can write only this one magic circle. It doesn't make him too op.

 

[XXEliteXXAceXX]

Freed didn't invent that magic spell either. He learned it from a person or a book. He's known for barrier magic, but the origin of these spells did not come from him. If Laxus made the spell on his own, which he did, he deserves credit for soloing Wahl. In a scenario where he didn't create that jutsu shiki, you can give credit to Freed for the help, but you'd have to credit Tespesta for helping Wahl too. Regardless of any of that, a healthy Laxus split this spriggan in two, proving he's he's at least spriggan level.

Yeah, Freed didn't invent Rune Magic. But how long did it take him to learn it? What if I were to tell you that Cana came back with Crash Magic that she learned from Gildarts? Would you be outraged or completely neutral? This was definitely Laxus' attack so I agree that Freed has nothing to do with the actual battle. But even if it was not Laxus' own magic, Tempesta wouldn't have really impacted this fight because the logic between Magic Barrier and Magic Barrier Particles wasn't there either. Tempesta's Magic Barrier Particles is a Curse where he can self-destruct and infect his enemy while Freed's Magic Barrier is made of runes. Hence, why I said in one of my earlier posts that there is a discrepancy in the fight alone.

 

[Firepower]

The moment he was cured, he was not in a desperate situation. He was happy and simply went for the kill. No extra nakama. Red lightning is his new power learned during the time skip, which represents both his power and feelings. He used fairy law, and didn't know why Natsu and the others didn't die. Makarov told Laxus that Laxus didn't understand how he actually feels. He's starting to get it. But this wasn't an asspull where he had to dig deep to find strength he didn't have before the fight.

 

[XXEliteXXAceXX]

Mirajane is not good example. Firstly, it's not anime filler, but manga special chapter. Secondly, Mirajane wasn't teaching Takeover, she'w teaching Transform Magic. Yes, Mirajane knows two different magic Takeover AND Tranform. But we have already seen many characters that knows many magic. Ultear--Ice-Make, Arc of Time and Transform; all Raijinshu members know two magics (eyes magic as primary and actually Jutsu Shiki is not Freed primary magic, it's Dark Écriture); Jellal can use A LOT OF types of magic; Mest can use Teleportation and Memory Magic. There are mant characters that can use different types of magic, so it shouldn't be a problem if Laxus learn second too.

Pretty much the same thing. I don't understand what you're point is. Manga special is not canon. It is equal to an anime filler. Transform magic and Takeover magic are essentially the same. You don't have to Takeover into a Beast, Demon, Animal, etc. That is basically what the chapter was illustrating. Again, Ultear spent a lot of time learning Ice-Make Magic and it was original. Not like Laxus stealing Freed's magic.

No, Freed's main magic is Rune Magic. Dark Ècriture is Eye Magic and is his supporting magic like Bickslow and Evergreen.

No, Jellal has Heavenly Body Magic which is basically Elemental Magic which encompasses many different types of magic.

Doranbolt's magic is original and how many times do I have to repeat the fact that these characters could have spent years learning these magic. You don't just wake up one morning or a year later and get that.

Laxus already has a lot of magic. I also don't mind Laxus learning more or improving but there has to be reasonable explanations...

 

[Brandish μ]

Yeah, we need further logical explanations for Laxus' Red Lightning. However, that still doesn't make it a legit feat either. I don't reject the idea of Laxus becoming stronger but I felt that the feat he used against Wahl was a cheap-shot. Wahl was hyped to be a counter to Laxus and then we see his lightning that is still lightning take Wahl out in one hit. It is true that we have to expect a character to have new attacks like the attacks we've seen from Natsu or Gray but not like Laxus. The portrayal and explanation for his attack didn't make sense.

Sure, anybody can learn a spell from dedicating time but just how much? We disagree here because I don't think it should be so simple as to one year or Jellal should just come back using Black Magic... Organic Link Magic is very similar to Dual Elements in a way that Laxus still used Lightning Magic. I'm sorry, I don't remember what thought projections were. Hopefully you can remind me of it. I don't know about everyone else but I always got the impression that anybody in Fairy Tail can use Fairy Law as long as they have the capability to do so. Maybe someone can prove me wrong.

It's a legit feat in that red lightning can destroy Wahl, or it is powerful enough to do so. Laxus charged Wahl head-on so I wouldn't call it a cheap shot, Wahl just thought he could tank it because of his so called immunity to lightning, which is understandable. Wahl could counter normal lightning, but he couldn't with the red lightning for reasons I am not sure. If Raiko is just a superior form of lightning magic like the 'lightning beyond lightning' phrase implies (this is what I'm running with for now), then I'm happy enough with that being sufficient reason for bypassing Wahl's defence against lightning. At the end of the day a defence has limits that can be overcome with sufficient power.

Jellal's a genius who I think could learn just about anything (he's already got a ton of magic, but heavenly body is his signature magic). August has apparently learned every magic under the sun as another example of someone who wields a heap of magic. Laxus skills aren't as comprehensive as these two, but he's shown sufficient talent that something like a Jutsu shiki is not without the realm of possibility. A thought projection is like an image projected in another space, like how Jellal made Seigrain. The same thing with Fairy Law applies with everyone, but it's likely a more difficult spell than Justu shiki to master.

 

[XXEliteXXAceXX]

The moment he was cured, he was not in a desperate situation. He was happy and simply went for the kill. No extra nakama. Red lightning is his new power learned during the time skip, which represents both his power and feelings. He used fairy law, and didn't know why Natsu and the others didn't die. Makarov told Laxus that Laxus didn't understand how he actually feels. He's starting to get it. But this wasn't an asspull where he had to dig deep to find strength he didn't have before the fight.

Not true. He was clearly struggling in the beginning of the fight when the Magic Barrier Particles didn't really affect him as much. Wahl overwhelmed him from the start. He didn't need extra Nakama because he already got one... Like I said earlier, I am content in Laxus becoming stronger but not in a way where the explanation was vague and the feat was poorly executed. Red Lightning and Fairy Law are totally different. The scenario with Red Lightning was to show Nakama Power and Plot Induced Wins. Meanwhile, Fairy Law was showing that Laxus didn't have the heart to kill his friends because he actually didn't view them as enemies.

It's a legit feat in that red lightning can destroy Wahl, or it is powerful enough to do so. Laxus charged Wahl head-on so I wouldn't call it a cheap shot, Wahl just thought he could tank it because of his so called immunity to lightning, which is understandable. Wahl could counter normal lightning, but he couldn't with the red lightning for reasons I am not sure. If Raiko is just a superior form of lightning magic like the 'lightning beyond lightning' phrase implies (this is what I'm running with for now), then I'm happy enough with that being sufficient reason for bypassing Wahl's defence against lightning. At the end of the day a defence has limits that can be overcome with sufficient power.

Jellal's a genius who I think could learn just about anything (he's already got a ton of magic, but heavenly body is his signature magic). August has apparently learned every magic under the sun as another example of someone who wields a heap of magic. Laxus skills aren't as comprehensive as these two, but he's shown sufficient talent that something like a Jutsu shiki is not without the realm of possibility. A thought projection is like an image projected in another space, like how Jellal made Seigrain. The same thing with Fairy Law applies with everyone, but it's likely a more difficult spell than Justu shiki to master.

Well, if there are reasons that you can't explain, then tell me how that would make it valid. If you believe in the reason that Laxus beat Wahl was because it was more than just lightning, then I am speechless. Sheer power is not everything. In fact, Wahl is just as strong as Laxus or greater, so with immunity against lightning, he should not have died so easily. I can bet anyone that if it was Erza, Gray, or Lucy performing this feat, you guys would automatically rate the chapter a 1 out of 10.

I know that Jellal had two identities but what I meant with my question was when did Laxus use thought projection? I can't remember him using it.

 

[Firepower]

Not true. He was clearly struggling in the beginning of the fight when the Magic Barrier Particles didn't really affect him as much. Wahl overwhelmed him from the start. He didn't need extra Nakama because he already got one... Like I said earlier, I am content in Laxus becoming stronger but not in a way where the explanation was vague and the feat was poorly executed. Red Lightning and Fairy Law are totally different. The scenario with Red Lightning was to show Nakama Power and Plot Induced Wins. Meanwhile, Fairy Law was showing that Laxus didn't have the heart to kill his friends because he actually didn't view them as enemies.

I wouldn't say struggling. Wahl was getting knocked around that's why he had to tranform. He hit Laxus a good amount of times, but right after hitting Laxus, Laxus comes back. It was a real fight. To me that means Wahl did not have enough power in his current state and had to stop playing around and get serious. He mentioned something about Laxus possibly pulling the rug on him if it kept up that way. So before the particles took effect, it was a close fight, possibly favoring Laxus by a little.