1. Of course it is lol, I told you these side tangents im replying to are all assumptions too, my core argument is literally 2 points
2. Same again.
3. Sure, because she got oneshot by a claw swipe two seconds earlier lol.
4. LFD empowered Natsu? Sure.
5. Then everyone dies. It's simple fact, Mashima has trouble writing Laxus enemies due to how strong he is, boosting Jura is a well crafted solution imo.
6. Didn't say it wouldnt do shit to him, I said it wouldnt beat him and even thats still an assumption, because this is a side tangent.
7. Doesn't matter what it is, Natsu was stronger. Nothing is canon about your statement, nowhere is it said Erza was stronger 1 year ago, quite the contrary.
8. You don't have to burn anything, just like I don't burn the entire Tartaros Arc when Gray and Natsu fought Mard Geer. As for Alvarez Laxus vs Hades, Laxus oneshot him with a mid tier attack, and you realize I have frequently stated Hades impressed me more than Wahl, right?
9. Team Natsu's amazement at his performance says otherwise.
10. None of those hype were stated to mean what you're saying they mean, quite the opposite. Mira's statement is clear cut and has nothing contradicting
11. Indeed she did.
12. What lol? Of course they do. Azuma blocked Benizakura, Minerva outright broke it(after blocking it many times)
13. Erza fighting a lesser opponent to Gildarts doesnt mean anything.
The way I work is much simpler than that big paragraph you used to explain your method.
1. If a character is stated and portrayed by the manga as stronger than another, then they are stronger unless the manga itself contradicts it later on.
2. If a character beats the aforementioned character or someone equal/stronger without help, then they are even stronger.
3. Feats and statements have equal importance. The more objective the hypes source, the better. The more clean the feat, the better.
4. Assumptions are fine, but the more broad and numerous they are, the less solid the argument sounds to me.
3. she held up fine against human irene, something that didnt impress you at all
4. no, the very start. when the entered the building, didnt natsu hit him. i dont remember hades dodging him
7. yes, for 5 seconds. er what, so you are saying gajeel can fight fh zeref like he fought 100year quest natsu
9. i thought erza was only impressed after he tanked the 25 formula
10. kagura was said to be clearly as strong as erza. i think that is a direct statement. after witnesing minerva spell, didnt jura say something along the lines, someone this strong is here?
12. erm, the point was blumblatt was superior or something. these characters who blocked benizakura blocked blumblatt alot more easily
13. nope. as you said bluenote punches and kicks wont even put down gray
how does your method work with
heaven arc gray vs heaven arc natsu
or
phantom gray vs phantom gajeel
how does your method shows laxus cut above the rest.
3. she held up fine against human irene, something that didnt impress you at all
4. no, the very start. when the entered the building, didnt natsu hit him. i dont remember hades dodging him
7. yes, for 5 seconds. er what, so you are saying gajeel can fight fh zeref like he fought 100year quest natsu
9. i thought erza was only impressed after he tanked the 25 formula
10. kagura was said to be clearly as strong as erza. i think that is a direct statement. after witnesing minerva spell, didnt jura say something along the lines, someone this strong is here?
12. erm, the point was blumblatt was superior or something. these characters who blocked benizakura blocked blumblatt alot more easily
13. nope. as you said bluenote punches and kicks wont even put down gray
how does your method work with
heaven arc gray vs heaven arc natsu
or
phantom gray vs phantom gajeel
how does your method shows laxus cut above the rest.
1. Sure, because I had just found out she was keeping a whole dragon transformation in her back pocket.
2. If you mean while they were doing team attacks, sure.
3. Give him the power of the guild and he can do a lot of things, so yeah.
4. Sure, I don't remember the specific timeframe though
5. By who? And even if it was said, that's contradicted by her defeat. Jura prob said something like that, so what?
6. I didn't say Blumenbatt was superior, and people block Benizakura easily, all the time, even when they're not Erza's equal.
7. Bluenotes punches and kicks put down Gildarts, Gildarts just got back up.
Gray loses both fights imo, he didnt have the feats to stack up at that point. Still, not a lot to work with, lots of assumptions
Jura=cut above the rest as stated by the manga, so following rule 1. Jura is a cut above the rest. Laxus beat Jura, so following rule 2. Laxus=cut above the rest including Jura. Plus Gray and Mira's statements.
By Erza's own evaluation, Natsu's POF is stronger than herself.
Sure. The S-Class monster might be on pre-TS Jura's level. Dunno why this is relevant. Again, huge variation among the Wizard Saints.
I mean, he kind of did. Thunder palace soloed pretty much everyone, and the only reason Laxus didn't outright win the Harvest Festival was because he went for Fairy Law. As far as how Erza ranked against Laxus pre-TS, well we have this:
TOH arc is easy to explain. Natsu was stronger. Fukuro gimmicked Natsu with motion sickness and absorbed some of his power. The damage Gray took from Fukuro's roar took him out for the rest of the arc. Then Natsu went on to fight Jellal.
By Erza's own evaluation, Natsu's POF is stronger than herself.
Sure. The S-Class monster might be on pre-TS Jura's level. Dunno why this is relevant. Again, huge variation among the Wizard Saints.
I mean, he kind of did. Thunder palace soloed pretty much everyone, and the only reason Laxus didn't outright win the Harvest Festival was because he went for Fairy Law. As far as how Erza ranked against Laxus pre-TS, well we have this:
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---
TOH arc is easy to explain. Natsu was stronger. Fukuro gimmicked Natsu with motion sickness and absorbed some of his power. The damage Gray took from Fukuro's roar took him out for the rest of the arc. Then Natsu went on to fight Jellal.
1. Sure, because I had just found out she was keeping a whole dragon transformation in her back pocket.
2. If you mean while they were doing team attacks, sure.
3. Give him the power of the guild and he can do a lot of things, so yeah.
4. Sure, I don't remember the specific timeframe though
5. By who? And even if it was said, that's contradicted by her defeat. Jura prob said something like that, so what?
6. I didn't say Blumenbatt was superior, and people block Benizakura easily, all the time, even when they're not Erza's equal.
7. Bluenotes punches and kicks put down Gildarts, Gildarts just got back up.
Gray loses both fights imo, he didnt have the feats to stack up at that point. Still, not a lot to work with, lots of assumptions
Jura=cut above the rest as stated by the manga, so following rule 1. Jura is a cut above the rest. Laxus beat Jura, so following rule 2. Laxus=cut above the rest including Jura. Plus Gray and Mira's statements.
1.
2. natsu intial charge was solo followed by others, no?
3. lol no. natsu got the power of the guild at the end? but i will come back to this point
4. it was right after the 25 formula and laxus blitz. that is when erza was shocked. and right below erza shock panel, laxus falls, and lucy explains why
5. why do we care by who. as long as kagura herself isnt saying it. point is erza is the main power house, she will undoubtedly be used to hype bad guys, that doesnt mean erza herself is a fodder. you cant seriously expect her to fight all the hype bad guys, who some random person has compared with her.
6. nope, atleast not when erza is putting enough power in it. this point goes back to our earlier discussion that when erza has summoned a weapon, she can swing it almost unlimited amount of time, meanwhile laxus cant do the same for named attack,
thus randomly swing benzikura=/=something with an effort benzikura attack
otherwise it would seriously unfair for everyone not named erza
7. only for a second. it was erza who went on to fight. while gildarts couldnt fight gravity after that.
lol not so easy mate.
gray by portrayal is equal to natsu (atleast pre ts). we have never seen an alteration between them that had natsu clear on top (cannonically they are equal, you will find alot of people voting for either in fairy tail guild). why should we assume, that natsu can beat gray in anything less than high diff. same for all their opponents relationship with each other like say gajeel vs juvia.
what about other statements.
jura putting minerva above the rest (nuke hype)
or minerva putting kagura and jura above the rest (no laxus here)
are we just suppose to ignore them?
so back to point 3. apparently, just like mishma said he has difficulty writing laxus opponents (but can produce aconologia tier out of his a$$), he said that gajeel and natsu are equal or something along those lines, recently.
by following your logic, there seems to be a huge difference beween natsu and gajeel in alverzec arc, no?
yes, by erza own evaluation, pof natsu >erza (erza implied in phantom arc) and pof natsu>laxus (erza implied in ff arc)
i am only talking pre ts. and its not might. it is. if we ignore s class monster hype might as well ignore gmg jura hype of 5th WS.
no, thunder palace is not something pre ts laxus can do without prep. that is like sayig azuma can solo entire fairy tail himself (including gildarts)
that could be right, pre ts erza vs gmg laxus
--- Double Post Merged, ---
1.
2. natsu intial charge was solo followed by others, no?
3. lol no. natsu got the power of the guild at the end? but i will come back to this point
4. it was right after the 25 formula and laxus blitz. that is when erza was shocked. and right below erza shock panel, laxus falls, and lucy explains why
5. why do we care by who. as long as kagura herself isnt saying it. point is erza is the main power house, she will undoubtedly be used to hype bad guys, that doesnt mean erza herself is a fodder. you cant seriously expect her to fight all the hype bad guys, who some random person has compared with her.
6. nope, atleast not when erza is putting enough power in it. this point goes back to our earlier discussion that when erza has summoned a weapon, she can swing it almost unlimited amount of time, meanwhile laxus cant do the same for named attack,
thus randomly swing benzikura=/=something with an effort benzikura attack
otherwise it would seriously unfair for everyone not named erza
7. only for a second. it was erza who went on to fight. while gildarts couldnt fight gravity after that.
lol not so easy mate.
gray by portrayal is equal to natsu (atleast pre ts). we have never seen an alteration between them that had natsu clear on top. why should we assume, that natsu can beat gray in anything less than high diff. same for all their opponents relationship with each other like say gajeel vs juvia.
what about other statements.
jura putting minerva above the rest (nuke hype)
or minerva putting kagura and jura above the rest (no laxus here)
are we just suppose to ignore them?
so back to point 3. apparently, just like mishma said he has difficulty writing laxus opponents (but can produce aconologia tier out of his a$$), he said that gajeel and natsu are equal or something along those lines, recently.
by following your logic, there seems to be a huge difference beween natsu and gajeel in alverzec arc, no?
1.
2. Sure, but he missed his initial charge.
3.
4. Sure, so what? Erza and everyone else was still amazed.
5. Just asking. No one said she's fodder, and im fine with using Kagura tiers as who Jura was hyped to solo anyway
6. Yes they can, they do it all the time. Erza can put more power in Blumenbatt too, look at what happened to Acno.
7. Sure, but why should I care about that?
If you wanna judge on portrayal, be my guest. But I'm sure you realize that I think Laxus is portrayed stronger than Erza.
Jura didn't put Minerva above the rest, he put Laxus above the rest. Minerva didn't put Kagura or Jura above anyone, FT weren't moving so not a threat.
Simple, Guild Natsu>Everyone. Normal Natsu=Normal Gajeel.
1.
2. Sure, but he missed his initial charge.
3.
4. Sure, so what? Erza and everyone else was still amazed.
5. Just asking. No one said she's fodder, and im fine with using Kagura tiers as who Jura was hyped to solo anyway
6. Yes they can, they do it all the time. Erza can put more power in Blumenbatt too, look at what happened to Acno.
7. Sure, but why should I care about that?
If you wanna judge on portrayal, be my guest. But I'm sure you realize that I think Laxus is portrayed stronger than Erza.
Jura didn't put Minerva above the rest, he put Laxus above the rest. Minerva didn't put Kagura or Jura above anyone, FT weren't moving so not a threat.
Simple, Guild Natsu>Everyone. Normal Natsu=Normal Gajeel.
2. did he?
4. obviously not even marakrov, someone a tier above laxus could tank it. erza should be amazed by that tank.
6. no one below erza has blocked benzikura when erza really going into the attack. yes, i guess, erza can, still its rare.
7. because you keep changing what you mean here or i am not getting what you are saying here
what. i am following your logic, that portrayal is as important as feats.
well, jura did say something along the lines of 'is someone this strong here'. no?
what? they were in the tornement. and minerva didnt include them.
The way I work is much simpler than that big paragraph you used to explain your method.
1. If a character is stated and portrayed by the manga as stronger than another, then they are stronger unless the manga itself contradicts it later on. 2. If a character beats the aforementioned character or someone equal/stronger without help, then they are even stronger.
3. Feats and statements have equal importance. The more objective the hypes source, the better. The more clean the feat, the better.
4. Assumptions are fine, but the more broad and numerous they are, the less solid the argument sounds to me.
so gajeel beat bradman with help
natsu beat jacob with help
one shot someone stronger than bradman (atleast by manga), made dimeria a farmer, also fought zeref for a while without he guild erm connections
how in the hell do we get here
2. did he?
4. obviously not even marakrov, someone a tier above laxus could tank it. erza should be amazed by that tank.
6. no one below erza has blocked benzikura when erza really going into the attack. yes, i guess, erza can, still its rare.
7. because you keep changing what you mean here or i am not getting what you are saying here
what. i am following your logic, that portrayal is as important as feats.
well, jura did say something along the lines of 'is someone this strong here'. no?
what? they were in the tornement. and minerva didnt include them.
not so simple
what you said
so gajeel beat bradman with help
natsu beat jacob with help
one shot someone stronger than bradman (atleast by manga), made dimeria a farmer.
how in the hell do we get here
1. Yes, Erza should've been amazed, and she was.
2. No ones blocked Blumenbatt when she was seriously going into it then, it's easy to make these claims.
3. And I'll continue to keep changing it because this topic is meaningless. Gildarts was down, he couldn't fight, Erza could, that means one character had strength left, the other didn't.
Probably, doesn't make her stronger than anyone else.
Sure, they were in the tournament, but they were just lazing around with their eyes closed so there's no reason to run away from them.
Notice the caveat I gave when saying portrayal=feats? The source and context of the portrayal matters, how clean the feat is matters. So yeah, feats=portrayal.... until they don't, because the level of interpretation varies massively. Sometimes feats are better sometime portrayal is better. I also wouldnt stick too close to those rules, they're just what I typed out in the moment, and while I think they're fairly accurate, I don't really feel like coming up with a bunch of clever ways to explain why they apply to everything for the next dozen comments, because they probably don't
That said, I do have a very clever way to explain the Gajeel, but this is the last time so don't bother with more Gray vs Gajeel or Natsu or whatever questions, it's off topic and I can't be bothered. Anyway for Gajeel, there are many ways you can "get there", could be Gajeel closed the gap over the year, matching Base Natsu equally is a better feat than any regular spriggan has, certainly better than what Neinhart displayed. Could be that Bloodman's advantage over Gajeel is the only reason he needed help. Like I said, feats have to be clean, and having an advantage over your foe isn't a clean feat for Bloodman. Doesn't really matter at the end of the day, Gajeel almost exhausted Natsu's magic, that alone implies their MP is basically the same.
1. Yes, Erza should've been amazed, and she was.
2. No ones blocked Blumenbatt when she was seriously going into it then, it's easy to make these claims.
3. And I'll continue to keep changing it because this topic is meaningless. Gildarts was down, he couldn't fight, Erza could, that means one character had strength left, the other didn't.
Probably, doesn't make her stronger than anyone else.
Sure, they were in the tournament, but they were just lazing around with their eyes closed so there's no reason to run away from them.
Notice the caveat I gave when saying portrayal=feats, the source and context of the portrayal matters, how clean the feat is matters. So yeah, feats=portrayal.... until they don't, because the level of interpretation varies massively. Sometimes feats are better sometime portrayal is better. I also wouldnt stick too close to those rules, they're just what I typed out in the moment, and while I think they're fairly accurate, I don't really feel like coming up with a bunch of clever ways to explain why they apply to everything for the next dozen comments, because they probably don't
That said, I do have a very clever way to explain the Gajeel, but this is the last time. So, there are many ways you can "get there", could be Gajeel closed the gap over the year, matching Base Natsu equally is a better feat than any regular spriggan has, certainly better than what Neinhart displayed. Could be that Bloodman's advantage over Gajeel is the only reason he needed help. Like I said, feats have to be clean, and having an advantage over your foe isn't a clean feat for Bloodman. Doesn't really matter at the end of the day, Gajeel almost exhausted Natsu's magic, that alone implies their MP is basically the same.
1. talking about natsu here
2. except this one almost never happens, blumblatt is a mid tier move of erza
3. fine, same can be said for laxus and erza against hades
what why? if jura said that, it mean she is above the rest present
what? so the tactician who nearly beat the best tactician (mavis), made tactics for five seconds. was minerva even aware they werent moving and wont move for how long.
so what i am getting here. its basically reader interpretation. one reader can say lucy > laxus and technically he wont be any more wrong than the person who disagrees.
feats and portrayal are completely based on readers acceptance not anything more (clean feats ?).
so if erza is shocked that laxus can match her, we can come up with essay long reasons, why this doesnt mean what it looks like it means. meanwhile if gray make a comment about laxus being cut above the rest, here we just reply with one word "OK".
1. talking about natsu here
2. except this one almost never happens, blumblatt is a mid tier move of erza
3. fine, same can be said for laxus and erza against hades
what why? if jura said that, it mean she is above the rest present
what? so the tactician who nearly beat the best tactician (mavis), made tactics for five seconds. was minerva even aware they werent moving and wont move for how long.
so what i am getting here. its basically reader interpretation. one reader can say lucy > laxus and technically he wont be any more wrong than the person who disagrees.
feats and portrayal are completely based on readers acceptance not anything more (clean feats ?).
so if erza is shocked that laxus can match her, we can come up with essay long reasons, why this doesnt mean what it looks like it means. meanwhile if gray make a comment about laxus being cut above the rest, here we just reply with one word "OK".
1. Yes, he missed
2. Says who? In her most recent fight she used it about as effectively as she used True Benizakura.
3. Sure?
No it doesn't? It means he doesn't know who's using that spell and that the spell is powerful. He knew it was there, and he still sought out a stronger foe despite knowing the location of that spell
Who said anything about tactics? The announcer was going on about how Jura and Kagura were cleaning house, Minerva commented that it was smart that Sting is avoiding them, she didn't give any orders about them, none that Orga followed anyway.
As for how Minerva knew about them standing still, the same way she knew Sting ran from Kagura, the announcers were shouting it at anyone who'd listen.
Obviously, you're the one who started getting into "personal methods" for judging characters, not me. Everything we talk about here is speculation, I've said it a thousand times, I simply think my speculation is better than yours. Clean feats in the context i use it means you straight overpower someone, no advantage, no help, no circumstances, it's an empty field and you beat up your opponent and would be able to do it again on a rematch.
Essay long reasons? As I recall I usually just say, yeah, Erza isn't shocked Laxus can match her, she thinks she needs Natsu and Gray to match him.
As for believing Gray's comment, sure, when you compound it with his actual performance against Hades, the fact that he beat Jura, someone also hyped as Gildarts' match and strongest GMG fighter by far. The more supporting evidence, the better.
1. Yes, he missed
2. Says who? In her most recent fight she used it about as effectively as she used True Benizakura.
3. Sure?
No it doesn't? It means he doesn't know who's using that spell and that the spell is powerful. He knew it was there, and he still sought out a stronger foe despite knowing the location of that spell
Who said anything about tactics? The announcer was going on about how Jura and Kagura were cleaning house, Minerva commented that it was smart that Sting is avoiding them, she didn't give any orders about them, none that Orga followed anyway.
As for how Minerva knew about them standing still, the same way she knew Sting ran from Kagura, the announcers were shouting it at anyone who'd listen.
Obviously, you're the one who started getting into "personal methods" for judging characters, not me. Everything we talk about here is speculation, I've said it a thousand times, I simply think my speculation is better than yours. Clean feats in the context i use it means you straight overpower someone, no advantage, no help, no circumstances, it's an empty field and you beat up your opponent and would be able to do it again on a rematch.
Essay long reasons? As I recall I usually just say, yeah, Erza isn't shocked Laxus can match her, she thinks she needs Natsu and Gray to match him.
As for believing Gray's comment, sure, when you compound it with his actual performance against Hades, the fact that he beat Jura, someone also hyped as Gildarts' match and strongest GMG fighter by far. The more supporting evidence, the better.
So you are just using one fight to judge an attack, when you 10 or 20 more fights too?
You know nothing, he might have started moving in that direction. His words are clear.
Again, you are trying to negate what she said, or what she meant. You are not doing same for gray. This way any portrayal can be questioned. You questioned this one, i questioned gray one. Neigher is more wrong than the other.
O ogra did follow minerva command, he never challenged jura to a fight, just wanted to see if jura could with stand his strongest move
You meed some methods.
No, alverzec feats are pretty clear. Natsu one two shot enhanced nienhart. Nienhart is supposed to be equal to bradman. Gajeel needed help plus power up to take out Bradman. This is near same amount of distance in power level as gmg natsu and gmg lucy.
Lol again, no need for explanation. I need explanation for laxus hypes ones.
I need to know why gray when hyping up laxus was wrong. There you only give me one word, when its hype you dont agree, you have an explanation.
So you are just using one fight to judge an attack, when you 10 or 20 more fights too?
You know nothing, he might have started moving in that direction. His words are clear.
Again, you are trying to negate what she said, or what she meant. You are not doing same for gray. This way any portrayal can be questioned. You questioned this one, i questioned gray one. Neigher is more wrong than the other.
O ogra did follow minerva command, he never challenged jura to a fight, just wanted to see if jura could with stand his strongest move
You meed some methods.
No, alverzec feats are pretty clear. Natsu one two shot enhanced nienhart. Nienhart is supposed to be equal to bradman. Gajeel needed help plus power up to take out Bradman. This is near same amount of distance in power level as gmg natsu and gmg lucy.
Lol again, no need for explanation. I need explanation for laxus hypes ones.
I need to know why gray when hyping up laxus was wrong. There you only give me one word, when its hype you dont agree, you have an explanation.
1. Well it'd be two fights wouldn't it with Aria, three if you include Acno. That said, I'm not judging the attack, you are, I'm just responding to you.
2. No, I do know, Jura said he wanted to fight Laxus and he chose that over Minerva's attack. Could have let Laxus fight Orga and be on his way, he didnt.
3. I don't need to negate what she said, because she didn't say that Kagura and Jura are stronger than FT, you did.
4. Minerva didn't say dont fight Jura, she said to avoid him, attacking him is not doing that.
5. And I have some.
6. Nah, Bloodman was immune to his attacks, it's not unlike Laxus vs Wahl or even Erza vs Ajeel to an extent, the feat isn't clean enough for me.
7. Huh? I already explained Laxus hype ones. Gray when hyping Laxus wasn't wrong, not sure why I would explain he was. But if you're looking for a double standard or something I'm afraid you'll be disappointed, I am above reproach. Even this little Gray point you think you have, I didn't say what you think I said, and my rules don't mean what you think they mean, you're focusing too much on one specifically, ignoring the others and the caveats I gave for them.
Well, as potrayal and feats between characters, you need to see the contexte :
- As Mirajane's statement, Jura is portraye so strong that she was thinking that with the help of Erza, she was still perplexe to win.
- Jura was portrayed as the strongest human wizard of the continent, the 4 kings of Ishgar being portrayal as non humans.
- Jura's might was surpassed by Kana's Fairy Glitter. Also, he was surprised about Minerva's spell as well, thinking that there is a powerful wizard to compete with. Minerva's spell who surprised Jura did nothing to Erza and Kagura.
- Laxus beat up barely Jura, so Jura wasn't the strongest. People's predilections were wrong.
- Erza beat up an enraged Kagura who was portrayed, with Minerva, as the strongest female in GmG. After, a wrecked Erza beat up Minerva.
For me, the feats are barely equal between them, in that stance.
- The fact is that Erza only used Second Origin at the end of GmG to destroy Minerva : this feat put her feats above Laxus's win and counter directly Mirajane's statement : all people and even the readers, were thinking that Erza used all her might during all her fights. She was clearly not. So you can use Laxus's stats at 6 / 6 / 6 to be above Erza's 5 / 5 / 5 but this was before Second Origin.
- The fact is that Erza complete Pandemonium, a test portrayed to be impossible for one wizard, even a Saint, without Second Origin.
- Erza beat up an enraged Kagura who was portrayed so strong that Minerva told Sting and others to not entered her and Jura, and then compete with Minerva who impressed Jura with her Spell, with hard damages.
Second Origin is not a less power up : Pre Second Origin Natsu had a hard time fightning Max and used Lightining Flame to claim the win. During the Tournament, he destroyed him easily in the taverne, making Natsu laughing.
In Tartaros, Erza had hard time with Kyoka : they seemed equal and Kyoka wasn't Etherious. Etherious Seilha was far stronger than Satan Soul Sitry, Mirajane's strongest form period. Then, Erza fought Etherious Kyoka who absorbed Seilha's strength and soul. You also have to think that Kyoka's power wasn't the addition of the two : her curse made her stronger per seconds and Erza's durability weaker at the same time. That was an impossible foe to be in front of.
Only to make analogy with Mira's Statement about Jura : This Etherious Kyoka was portrayed to be stronger than Erza + Mirajane. Erza barely won the fight.
I don't take time to give my opinion about Eileen vs Erza. The two characters are hated here.
Has for the fight between Laxus vs Erza, Erza needed help from Grey or Natsu not for matching him, but to secure the orb. During the fight, it was clear that she is amaze about Laxus's power up to compete with her and match her strength. They are now even. See statements :
- Laxus : "In order to defeat you, small attacks won't work" : he is aware that his clasic lightning, who destroyed Kyria, is not enough to beat her. and saying small attacks show the difference of the might between Red Lightning and Classic Lightning.
- Erza : "So much power" : confirm Laxus's statement about the gap between the two lightning.
- Erza : "How strong !! How much stronger did you become, Laxus..." : Erza is amazed about the gap between this Laxus strength and the previous she knew.
Then Erza used high enchant to give a critical blow and Laxus tank it. Erza's reaction is clear that Laxus's durability is also far stronger than previous Laxus.
- Laxus : "For how long will you hold back Erza. This is not a quarrel between friends anymore" : Laxus is aware that Erza, who tanked all his might, is not fighting at full strength. The second part shows up that reckless Erza is match in strength, brawling and magic destruction to a stalemate, even without enchants (classic Blumenblatt).
Erza's last speech : "Since we left for the 100 years quest, I was worried about the guild's defense line... If you are this strong, Laxus, there is no need to worry then.... You are under control of the white wizard now, once this settled, there won't be any worry left for the guild... That's why I laugh... I feel relieved because of your power" : this sentence is the key. Erza was worried and didn't take account Laxus previous power to replace her. Why to be worry if Laxus was stronger than her ? Now Laxus reached an another level to the point that Erza see him as her replacement.
Erza's conclusion : "But I'll win next time, definitely"
Laxus's conclusion : "That's my line"....
So the fight is a draw and shows that Laxus improved greatly himself in a year to reach her level.
Well, as potrayal and feats between characters, you need to see the contexte :
- As Mirajane's statement, Jura is portraye so strong that she was thinking that with the help of Erza, she was still perplexe to win.
- Jura was portrayed as the strongest human wizard of the continent, the 4 kings of Ishgar being portrayal as non humans.
- Jura's might was surpassed by Kana's Fairy Glitter. Also, he was surprised about Minerva's spell as well, thinking that there is a powerful wizard to compete with. Minerva's spell who surprised Jura did nothing to Erza and Kagura.
- Laxus beat up barely Jura, so Jura wasn't the strongest. People's predilections were wrong.
- Erza beat up an enraged Kagura who was portrayed, with Minerva, as the strongest female in GmG. After, a wrecked Erza beat up Minerva.
For me, the feats are barely equal between them, in that stance.
- The fact is that Erza only used Second Origin at the end of GmG to destroy Minerva : this feat put her feats above Laxus's win and counter directly Mirajane's statement : all people and even the readers, were thinking that Erza used all her might during all her fights. She was clearly not. So you can use Laxus's stats at 6 / 6 / 6 to be above Erza's 5 / 5 / 5 but this was before Second Origin.
- The fact is that Erza complete Pandemonium, a test portrayed to be impossible for one wizard, even a Saint, without Second Origin.
- Erza beat up an enraged Kagura who was portrayed so strong that Minerva told Sting and others to not entered her and Jura, and then compete with Minerva who impressed Jura with her Spell, with hard damages.
Second Origin is not a less power up : Pre Second Origin Natsu had a hard time fightning Max and used Lightining Flame to claim the win. During the Tournament, he destroyed him easily in the taverne, making Natsu laughing.
In Tartaros, Erza had hard time with Kyoka : they seemed equal and Kyoka wasn't Etherious. Etherious Seilha was far stronger than Satan Soul Sitry, Mirajane's strongest form period. Then, Erza fought Etherious Kyoka who absorbed Seilha's strength and soul. You also have to think that Kyoka's power wasn't the addition of the two : her curse made her stronger per seconds and Erza's durability weaker at the same time. That was an impossible foe to be in front of.
Only to make analogy with Mira's Statement about Jura : This Etherious Kyoka was portrayed to be stronger than Erza + Mirajane. Erza barely won the fight.
I don't take time to give my opinion about Eileen vs Erza. The two characters are hated here.
Has for the fight between Laxus vs Erza, Erza needed help from Grey or Natsu not for matching him, but to secure the orb. During the fight, it was clear that she is amaze about Laxus's power up to compete with her and match her strength. They are now even. See statements :
- Laxus : "In order to defeat you, small attacks won't work" : he is aware that his clasic lightning, who destroyed Kyria, is not enough to beat her. and saying small attacks show the difference of the might between Red Lightning and Classic Lightning.
- Erza : "So much power" : confirm Laxus's statement about the gap between the two lightning.
- Erza : "How strong !! How much stronger did you become, Laxus..." : Erza is amazed about the gap between this Laxus strength and the previous she knew.
Then Erza used high enchant to give a critical blow and Laxus tank it. Erza's reaction is clear that Laxus's durability is also far stronger than previous Laxus.
- Laxus : "For how long will you hold back Erza. This is not a quarrel between friends anymore" : Laxus is aware that Erza, who tanked all his might, is not fighting at full strength. The second part shows up that reckless Erza is match in strength, brawling and magic destruction to a stalemate, even without enchants (classic Blumenblatt).
Erza's last speech : "Since we left for the 100 years quest, I was worried about the guild's defense line... If you are this strong, Laxus, there is no need to worry then.... You are under control of the white wizard now, once this settled, there won't be any worry left for the guild... That's why I laugh... I feel relieved because of your power" : this sentence is the key. Erza was worried and didn't take account Laxus previous power to replace her. Why to be worry if Laxus was stronger than her ? Now Laxus reached an another level to the point that Erza see him as her replacement.
Erza's conclusion : "But I'll win next time, definitely"
Laxus's conclusion : "That's my line"....
So the fight is a draw and shows that Laxus improved greatly himself in a year to reach her level.
But the problem is that is erza perception of powerlevel is inconsistent as hell and doesn’t make since she always believe that laxus was weaker than her and thought that natsu was/is stronger than her. That’s doesn’t make sense cause even natsu admitted at one point that laxus is stronger than him. I guess she couldn’t understand how and why natsu believe that till their fight?? But at the end of the day erza admitted that she lost. Laxus said that’s my line as far as winning next time but his actions doesn’t look that way cuz he didn’t free fall like erza and clearly sat down and rested cuz a few mins later he got up later than erza.
Plus gray also said that gildartz and laxus were the powerhouse of the guild
1. Well it'd be two fights wouldn't it with Aria, three if you include Acno. That said, I'm not judging the attack, you are, I'm just responding to you.
2. No, I do know, Jura said he wanted to fight Laxus and he chose that over Minerva's attack. Could have let Laxus fight Orga and be on his way, he didnt.
3. I don't need to negate what she said, because she didn't say that Kagura and Jura are stronger than FT, you did.
4. Minerva didn't say dont fight Jura, she said to avoid him, attacking him is not doing that.
5. And I have some.
6. Nah, Bloodman was immune to his attacks, it's not unlike Laxus vs Wahl or even Erza vs Ajeel to an extent, the feat isn't clean enough for me.
7. Huh? I already explained Laxus hype ones. Gray when hyping Laxus wasn't wrong, not sure why I would explain he was. But if you're looking for a double standard or something I'm afraid you'll be disappointed, I am above reproach. Even this little Gray point you think you have, I didn't say what you think I said, and my rules don't mean what you think they mean, you're focusing too much on one specifically, ignoring the others and the caveats I gave for them.
Basically its all bs.
You have decided long time ago that laxus is stronger and everytime something implies that, you agree with it.
If something comes up and says something else, you come up with whole host of reasons to negate it.
Its basically same as if you are part of some religion or part some political party, you will agree to only things that validate your previous held position.
Same is happening here
That why i find my way much much more logical, and much much less bais.
One or two hype dont make the story.
Pre ts erza featwise is well above pre ts laxus
Portrayalwise pre ts laxus has slight edge.
Canonically they were around each other pre ts and gmg arc and even now. Nothing changed in this regard
ok l will say my final opnion in this from the first time this series is found till 100yq.
ok the first time we saw laxus in action was in his arc at that time laxus was saying that erza is alot weaker than him you may say that laxus was cocky and arrogant at that time but still he aknowledge mystogan and wanted to fight him to see who is the strongest and from there little clash you can say that they are even, now let's compare them through mystogan , mystogan sleeping spell worked in all FT(including erza) except makarov and laxus, from there it's obvious that laxus is far stronger than erza.
now the second arc laxus+erza showed up in was tenroujima arc, you can compare the two in their battle against hades, erza+her team(she wasn't alone)was getting stomp by hades while laxus alone did alot better than the whole team did to hades, and also hades aknowledge laxus and said that he didn't know that makarov had a strong guy like him other than gildarts, he didn't say anything about erza even though she is on the ground infront of him, and this again shows that laxus is far stronger than erza.
the third arc was GMG arc, in the beginning of the arc FT members wanted to train to catch up to other guild strength, gray said that laxus and gildarts don't need to train becuase they are already a monsters he didn't say anything about erza even though she is standing beside him, now when jura appeard he is portrayed to be the strongest human and the 5th ranked wizard saint and mirajane said that a team work between her and erza isn't enough to defeat him, now geuss who defeated jura? laxus did and that shows that he is stronger than mira and erza together.
now in tartarus laxus had cancer so he didn't contribute in that arc that much but even with that he still defeated one of the demon gate with easy diff (who later stalemated natsu)and the other FT members were strugling in their fight against the demons and tempesta was like 4th strongest demon after kyoka, seilah and silver and about erza well((((she is erza))))).
and now in alvarez you can compare the two through ajeel, ajeel was wrecking erza's ass through out the fight, while a one nuke from laxus is enough to heavily injure or even kill ajeel by august words, and this imo enough to say laxus also far stronger than erza.
and now 100YQ where erza start to catch up to his level(not the other away around), in there fight they were close to each other but laxus landed a more blows to erza and he locked like the superior one but in the end both of them take each other out, at that moment i believd that they are equal untill laxus wakes up before her and then hold her and say that she is badly beat up and then carry her through out the town while crashing wolfens in his way untill chapter 59 were erza finally wake up after like 14 chapter from there fight and after waking up she couldn't move becuase of her injuries(that made by laxus) while laxus when he woke up he was running in the town to find who did this to her while holdnig her, and that shows that laxus had the better durability and also the better attack power, so imo erza 100YQ finally became close to him but laxus still has the better stats.
so now from the beginning of the series till alvarez laxus was>>>erza, in 100YQ laxus>=erza and i'm sure that in the end of 100YQ erza will be>>>all of FT members except natsu.
@Ronin31 about erza hate, her hate i think it's obvious becuase of her illogical feats, natsu like her has illogical feats but he don't have alot of hate like her, because she have alot of them i can make a list of erza illogical feats and also they aren't explained right like for example all of her senses got taken out by kyoka but she still beated her and what was the explanation?? she is erza, her cutting a fucking moteor with only one part of her body is working and other stuff too. and irene is wanked alot there is a guy said that she no diffs all parent dragons together(except igneel) it's not the right place to discuss that but the point is she don't gate hate it's the other way around check spriggans vs parent dragons to see that.
Basically its all bs.
You have decided long time ago that laxus is stronger and everytime something implies that, you agree with it.
If something comes up and says something else, you come up with whole host of reasons to negate it.
Its basically same as if you are part of some religion or part some political party, you will agree to only things that validate your previous held position.
Same is happening here
That why i find my way much much more logical, and much much less bais.
One or two hype dont make the story.
Pre ts erza featwise is well above pre ts laxus
Portrayalwise pre ts laxus has slight edge.
Canonically they were around each other pre ts and gmg arc and even now. Nothing changed in this regard
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---
You got to stop using sh!t stuffs like this to hype laxus
1. Not at all, I'm perfectly happy to acknowledge that currently Laxus>=Erza. The manga decides, I listen. I dont decide how strong Laxus is, the manga does.
2. What did you expect? That I'd just take your word for it lol? Obviously if someone comes up with an argument, I provide a counter-argument.
3. I have no political affiliation, and that's the way I like it, because both sides are full of shit. I'm also agnostic, my mind is fairly open
4. We've already established you are biased, with you yourself admitting it, so I don't know why you're bothering to sing me the praises of your logic.
5. Not according to Gray, Mirajane, Mavis and everyone in GMG. Everyone thought Jura was the strongest, and Laxus beat him.
ok the first time we saw laxus in action was in his arc at that time laxus was saying that erza is alot weaker than him you may say that laxus was cocky and arrogant at that time but still he aknowledge mystogan and wanted to fight him to see who is the strongest and from there little clash you can say that they are even, now let's compare them through mystogan , mystogan sleeping spell worked in all FT(including erza) except makarov and laxus, from there it's obvious that laxus is far stronger than erza.
Assomption :
- we don't know if laxus wasn't sleeping like all the members. He also could surprised Mystogan's face in another issue.
- Yes, Laxus was arrogant this time. Also Mystogan said Laxus was blind to see Erza as a weakling.
- Makarov was aware about Laxus and Erza's power level and he thought she had chance of winning. Sure Makarov was not aware about Laxus Dragon Power that buff him, but in analogy, they weren't aware of Erza's beginning of resilience during the Paradise Tour : power boost as well if we see the fight vs Ikaruga (Ikagura low diffed her and then was one shot).
now the second arc laxus+erza showed up in was tenroujima arc, you can compare the two in their battle against hades, erza+her team(she wasn't alone)was getting stomp by hades while laxus alone did alot better than the whole team did to hades, and also hades aknowledge laxus and said that he didn't know that makarov had a strong guy like him other than gildarts, he didn't say anything about erza even though she is on the ground infront of him, and this again shows that laxus is far stronger than erza.
Well, when two characters are around same power level, it is clear that a fresh one shows up stronger than a wrecked one. Just before Hades fight, she had hard time to even walk. Do you see her fight with Azuma and the damage she took ??
In the Manga, Precht never compared Laxus to Gildarts. Only the anime and I don't take account what is off Manga.
the third arc was GMG arc, in the beginning of the arc FT members wanted to train to catch up to other guild strength, gray said that laxus and gildarts don't need to train becuase they are already a monsters he didn't say anything about erza even though she is standing beside him, now when jura appeard he is portrayed to be the strongest human and the 5th ranked wizard saint and mirajane said that a team work between her and erza isn't enough to defeat him, now geuss who defeated jura? laxus did and that shows that he is stronger than mira and erza together.
The fact is that Gray knows Gildart and Laxus are powerhouse : only fact.
Gray's statement chapter 89 : "to tell the truth, if Erza was serious, I dought anybody could beat her". So Gray acklogedge Erza as Powerhouse in same way.
As for Jura, like I said, Mirajane and nobody were aware about Erza's true power that she only unleashed Second Origin at the end of the GmG to correct Minerva. Second Origin is a great power up that counter direct statement (see Previous Natsu and Current GmG Natus vs Max). Didn't Laxus and Jura surprised that Erza finished Pandemonium by herself ?? Still, Second Origin wasn't unlocked.
now in tartarus laxus had cancer so he didn't contribute in that arc that much but even with that he still defeated one of the demon gate with easy diff (who later stalemated natsu)and the other FT members were strugling in their fight against the demons and tempesta was like 4th strongest demon after kyoka, seilah and silver and about erza well((((she is erza))))).
Agree that Laxus no diff Tempester who equal Natsu. But not when he was under Cancer. That was a filler in the anime. Tempester was no diffed by Gray in Devil Slayer mode, who showed up a power at Laxus's level by analogy. Gajeel was amazed about the gap with the Gray he knew.
As you said, Tempester was strong, but below Kyoka and Seilha. Erza, at the end, managed to win a battle against Kyoka who absorbed Seilha's soul and with the curse to grow up her strength by second and destroy durability at the same time. Erza's foe was far far above Tempester.
and now 100YQ where erza start to catch up to his level(not the other away around), in there fight they were close to each other but laxus landed a more blows to erza and he locked like the superior one but in the end both of them take each other out, at that moment i believd that they are equal untill laxus wakes up before her and then hold her and say that she is badly beat up and then carry her through out the town while crashing wolfens in his way untill chapter 59 were erza finally wake up after like 14 chapter from there fight and after waking up she couldn't move becuase of her injuries(that made by laxus) while laxus when he woke up he was running in the town to find who did this to her while holdnig her, and that shows that laxus had the better durability and also the better attack power, so imo erza 100YQ finally became close to him but laxus still has the better stats.
Nope. I said statements based on the Manga that show up Erza didn't expect Laxus to be that strong. Current Laxus is far stronger than Arbaless Laxus. Erza took massive damage with Laxus going all out where Erza was still holding back (I cleared all statements). Erza see now Laxus as her rival to replace her to defend the Guild during her journey. Why to be worry when you left a Guild where a stronger or as strong friend stayed in it to defend ? This is the case now, but not when she left it.
As for Laxus still in his feets, yes ok. Erza collapsed due to injuries and exaust and accepted her defeat. Laxus, who didn't receive any reckless slash received less damage but couldn't move anymore. He was KO on his feets. He didn't rest. He felt unconscious just after Erza. So it was a stalemate and this is why Laxus said "That's my line". Or do you see Laxus as an idiot, resting with an ennemy near him who wanted to eat him, and refusing to break the orb, his original mission ordered by Touka who controlled him ?
By analogy, Gajeel was out of magic but still on his feets. When Natsu attacked Reby, his pregnant wife, he couldn't move. He was beaten. Laxus was in same stance.
But the problem is that is erza perception of powerlevel is inconsistent as hell and doesn’t make since she always believe that laxus was weaker than her and thought that natsu was/is stronger than her. That’s doesn’t make sense cause even natsu admitted at one point that laxus is stronger than him.
Well, you have to see Erza's mind evolution. She was thinking that she was weak when she was still in Trauma and was thinking that Natsu has more potential. She forced him to unleashed his hidden power just before his fight vs Gajeel in Phantom Lord. This time she was "closed in her armor", until Paradise Tour and Ikaruga's fight, where she began her resilience. See Jose's react. He saw her as a powerful wizard, enough to compete with him while she was wrecked by Jupiter. Jose was aware about Gajeel's power level. He saw Erza far above and said she underestimested herself. Only her mind, as trauma, reduced herself thinking Natsu was at her level. Because she failed saving friends when she was a child.
Erza and Laxus had always been above Natsu and Natsu was aware about that. Every time he fought against them, he was clearly defeated.
laxus wakes up before her and then hold her and say that she is badly beat up and then carry her through out the town while crashing wolfens in his way untill chapter 59 were erza finally wake up after like 14 chapter from there fight and after waking up she couldn't move becuase of her injuries(that made by laxus) while laxus when he woke up he was running in the town to find who did this to her while holdnig her
Sorry I didn't answer that. Laxus woke up before Erza not by himself but because he was restored. When Happy stroke Touka, her control on Fairy Tail's Puppets magic had been broken. They regained their magic back. As exemple, see Jubia without magic claming that she wanted to protect Gray's ears. With Touka's fell, she regained her magic back. Just after, we saw all the previous puppets restored and caming back, like Laxus. Laxus felt unconscious because of his magic reserve. Restored, it was normal he wake up before Erza.
As for injuries, you have to take account that Erza tanked all of Laxus magic attacks at full strength and dealt held back slashes on his friend. See Laxus's statement at the end of the first chapter. When Erza was reckless, Laxus took only brawling impact but no magic injuries, as they countered each other until no reserve.
So Laxus woke up before but it was as justified as Jubia's magic back, and all puppets back (Mirajane, Gajeel and Elfman who fought until no reserve as well), and the injuries as well. Erza didn't dealt fatal blows, were Laxus unleashed all his might on her.
Assomption :
- we don't know if laxus wasn't sleeping like all the members. He also could surprised Mystogan's face in another issue.
- Yes, Laxus was arrogant this time. Also Mystogan said Laxus was blind to see Erza as a weakling.
- Makarov was aware about Laxus and Erza's power level and he thought she had chance of winning. Sure Makarov was not aware about Laxus Dragon Power that buff him, but in analogy, they weren't aware of Erza's beginning of resilience during the Paradise Tour : power boost as well if we see the fight vs Ikaruga (Ikagura low diffed her and then was one shot).
We kinda do know, the manga pretty clearly implied that the reason Laxus knew Mystogans identity was because he didn't fall asleep. Then there is him shrugging off his sleep spell later.
Makarov said Erza "might just have a chance against Laxus", sounds like Laxus is stronger to me.
Well, when two characters are around same power level, it is clear that a fresh one shows up stronger than a wrecked one. Just before Hades fight, she had hard time to even walk. Do you see her fight with Azuma and the damage she took ??
In the Manga, Precht never compared Laxus to Gildarts. Only the anime and I don't take account what is off Manga.
That was Gray, Erza had several chapters after Azuma to recover, the entire time it took Gray to beat Ultear, as well as the time it took to get to Hades. It's like saying Gray and Natsu were injured against Mard Geer because they had fights earlier, I mean sure, they were, wouldnt have made much of a difference against Mard.
Precht mistook Laxus for Prime Makarov though, near as good as being compared to Gildarts
The fact is that Gray knows Gildart and Laxus are powerhouse : only fact.
Gray's statement chapter 89 : "to tell the truth, if Erza was serious, I dought anybody could beat her". So Gray acklogedge Erza as Powerhouse in same way.
Sure, but that was much earlier on in the series, before Laxus even had his arc
As for Jura, like I said, Mirajane and nobody were aware about Erza's true power that she only unleashed Second Origin at the end of the GmG to correct Minerva. Second Origin is a great power up that counter direct statement (see Previous Natsu and Current GmG Natus vs Max). Didn't Laxus and Jura surprised that Erza finished Pandemonium by herself ?? Still, Second Origin wasn't unlocked.
Impressive, but not as impressive as beating Jura. He was acknowledged by all as the strongest fighter in GMG. Besides, Mira knew that Erza either had SO or 3 months of training when she said what she said.
Agree that Laxus no diff Tempester who equal Natsu. But not when he was under Cancer. That was a filler in the anime. Tempester was no diffed by Gray in Devil Slayer mode, who showed up a power at Laxus's level by analogy. Gajeel was amazed about the gap with the Gray he knew.
As you said, Tempester was strong, but below Kyoka and Seilha. Erza, at the end, managed to win a battle against Kyoka who absorbed Seilha's soul and with the curse to grow up her strength by second and destroy durability at the same time. Erza's foe was far far above Tempester.
Kyoka only absorbed what she herself described as a "tiny amount of curse power" from Seilah.
Nope. I said statements based on the Manga that show up Erza didn't expect Laxus to be that strong. Current Laxus is far stronger than Arbaless Laxus. Erza took massive damage with Laxus going all out where Erza was still holding back (I cleared all statements). Erza see now Laxus as her rival to replace her to defend the Guild during her journey. Why to be worry when you left a Guild where a stronger or as strong friend stayed in it to defend ? This is the case now, but not when she left it.
As for Laxus still in his feets, yes ok. Erza collapsed due to injuries and exaust and accepted her defeat. Laxus, who didn't receive any reckless slash received less damage but couldn't move anymore. He was KO on his feets. He didn't rest. He felt unconscious just after Erza. So it was a stalemate and this is why Laxus said "That's my line". Or do you see Laxus as an idiot, resting with an ennemy near him who wanted to eat him, and refusing to break the orb, his original mission ordered by Touka who controlled him ?
By analogy, Gajeel was out of magic but still on his feets. When Natsu attacked Reby, his pregnant wife, he couldn't move. He was beaten. Laxus was in same stance.
Laxus not killing Kyria in the first place is stupid, Laxus turning around to face Erza instead of destroying the orb is stupid.
Sorry I didn't answer that. Laxus woke up before Erza not by himself but because he was restored. When Happy stroke Touka, her control on Fairy Tail's Puppets magic had been broken. They regained their magic back. As exemple, see Jubia without magic claming that she wanted to protect Gray's ears. With Touka's fell, she regained her magic back. Just after, we saw all the previous puppets restored and caming back, like Laxus. Laxus felt unconscious because of his magic reserve. Restored, it was normal he wake up before Erza.
As for injuries, you have to take account that Erza tanked all of Laxus magic attacks at full strength and dealt held back slashes on his friend. See Laxus's statement at the end of the first chapter. When Erza was reckless, Laxus took only brawling impact but no magic injuries, as they countered each other until no reserve.
So Laxus woke up before but it was as justified as Jubia's magic back, and all puppets back (Mirajane, Gajeel and Elfman who fought until no reserve as well), and the injuries as well. Erza didn't dealt fatal blows, were Laxus unleashed all his might on her.
That was never stated or implied. Juvia got her magic back because the White Witch forcefully took it away, she did not however take away the powers of any other member of FT, so there was nothing for her to give back to Laxus. We know this because Laxus was still weakened after the White Witch was defeated, he simply had the strength to stand up and fight unlike Erza.
Erza holding back is irrelevant when she in the end spent all her magic power on Laxus, characters rarely go all out at the start of a fight, it's a pretty normal thing. Everything Erza could have given in that fight, she gave. Not to mention the fact that he had already spent several magic attacks, including a secret art, to defeat Kyria, someone Erza described as "formidable".
Impressive, but not as impressive as beating Jura. He was acknowledged by all as the strongest fighter in GMG. Besides, Mira knew that Erza either had SO or 3 months of training when she said what she said.
That was never stated or implied. Juvia got her magic back because the White Witch forcefully took it away, she did not however take away the powers of any other member of FT, so there was nothing for her to give back to Laxus. We know this because Laxus was still weakened after the White Witch was defeated, he simply had the strength to stand up and fight unlike Erza.
Chapter 30 :
"Even with my hypnosis wears off, my magic power is likely still controlled by the White Mage. Everybody's Magic Power probably won't be returned unless it's split of the enchantement form the White Mage". (Jubia)
" So that means there is no hope we can increase our strength each time we free somebody." (Gray)
Chapter 50 :
"Jubia, you can use your magic again ?" (Lucy)
"Jubia does not know why, but, her magic, has been restored." (Jubia)
" If that's the case, could it be everyone else who was whited out was restored too ?" (Lucy)
The next pictures show up all the whited being restored, and Laxus as well, saving Erza from the church. So, yes, he has been restored in magic like Jubia was.
Chapter 53 :
" Of course, if Jubia can use Magic, then that means... so can everyone" (Kana and Lucy)
" Alright, get everyone out of the cards" (Gray)
Erza holding back is irrelevant when she in the end spent all her magic power on Laxus, characters rarely go all out at the start of a fight, it's a pretty normal thing. Everything Erza could have given in that fight, she gave. Not to mention the fact that he had already spent several magic attacks, including a secret art, to defeat Kyria, someone Erza described as "formidable".
Irrelevant ? Why ?
You have to take account about circonstances : one is fighting a friend, one wanted more and stroke to give lethal damage (it's not a querrel between friends anymore). She spent the first chapter to take massive damages while seeing him as a friend.
Agree he spent magic fighting Kyria, she spent magic fighting Jellal. Describing Kyria to be a formidable foe is a task of respect, but she has been defeated by Erza before as well. And seeing the fight, Kyria realized that she is clearly below both of them, portraying them as monsters.
Gray is in the Guild since 10 years period. No need Laxus to have his arc. Gray knows him. He saw all the S-Classes as FT's aces
Really ?? Mira can be aware of Erza's training, she didn't see her using it. She didn't know her real level period.
And you think it is not a power-up ? Even in her base, Kyoka was at Erza's level. Where do you place Etherious Kyoka to Tempester ?
Well, agree in somehow.
Chapter 30 :
"Even with my hypnosis wears off, my magic power is likely still controlled by the White Mage. Everybody's Magic Power probably won't be returned unless it's split of the enchantement form the White Mage". (Jubia)
" So that means there is no hope we can increase our strength each time we free somebody." (Gray)
Chapter 50 :
"Jubia, you can use your magic again ?" (Lucy)
"Jubia does not know why, but, her magic, has been restored." (Jubia)
" If that's the case, could it be everyone else who was whited out was restored too ?" (Lucy)
The next pictures show up all the whited being restored, and Laxus as well, saving Erza from the church. So, yes, he has been restored in magic like Jubia was.
Chapter 53 :
" Of course, if Jubia can use Magic, then that means... so can everyone" (Kana and Lucy)
" Alright, get everyone out of the cards" (Gray)
Irrelevant ? Why ?
You have to take account about circonstances : one is fighting a friend, one wanted more and stroke to give lethal damage (it's not a querrel between friends anymore). She spent the first chapter to take massive damages while seeing him as a friend.
Agree he spent magic fighting Kyria, she spent magic fighting Jellal. Describing Kyria to be a formidable foe is a task of respect, but she has been defeated by Erza before as well. And seeing the fight, Kyria realized that she is clearly below both of them, portraying them as monsters.
To me it sounds like Laxus is stronger, but Erza still has a shot. Missing my point, it's early in the manga, things change, the Laxus that fought Hades looked much more powerful than the one that fought Natsu. Plus it's hyperbole, plus he meant enemies, Gray knows several people Erza would lose to, eg Makarov and Gildarts.
Really ?? Mira can be aware of Erza's training, she didn't see her using it. She didn't know her real level period.
Oh and I forgot to mention, Erza wasn't worried about the guilds defense because she left, she was worried about the guilds defense when the entirety of Team Natsu left.
Chapter 30 :
"Even with my hypnosis wears off, my magic power is likely still controlled by the White Mage. Everybody's Magic Power probably won't be returned unless it's split of the enchantement form the White Mage". (Jubia)
" So that means there is no hope we can increase our strength each time we free somebody." (Gray)
Chapter 50 :
"Jubia, you can use your magic again ?" (Lucy)
"Jubia does not know why, but, her magic, has been restored." (Jubia)
" If that's the case, could it be everyone else who was whited out was restored too ?" (Lucy)
The next pictures show up all the whited being restored, and Laxus as well, saving Erza from the church. So, yes, he has been restored in magic like Jubia was.
Chapter 53 :
" Of course, if Jubia can use Magic, then that means... so can everyone" (Kana and Lucy)
" Alright, get everyone out of the cards" (Gray)
Returned as in that's how the White Witch was controlling them, with their magic. Doesn't make the magic they spent somehow replenish, unless the Whited Out FT members had some of their magic held back by the White Witch when they went into battle...
Irrelevant ? Why ?
You have to take account about circonstances : one is fighting a friend, one wanted more and stroke to give lethal damage (it's not a querrel between friends anymore). She spent the first chapter to take massive damages while seeing him as a friend.
Because by the end she spent everything she had. If she spent less power at the start of the fight, that just means she had more magic to spare at the end of the fight, which she used to its fullest.
Agree he spent magic fighting Kyria, she spent magic fighting Jellal. Describing Kyria to be a formidable foe is a task of respect, but she has been defeated by Erza before as well. And seeing the fight, Kyria realized that she is clearly below both of them, portraying them as monsters.
Sure, after taking a break screwing around with him, tying him up and making her way back to the cathedral.
Respect? How? And why lol? Kyria literally made Erza her dog. But yes, Kyria is below, at least while Erza is using a Dragon Seal.
