Luffy vs. Zoro! Who would win?

[DutchPhoenix]

http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/213/17/

http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/214/10/


zoro is the only one who is showed to be training really hard all the time

 

[neomaster121]

I'd have to travel to another country to get it, or order it online, which is pretty bothersome, since manga's aren't sold much in my country.
And it wasn't about the stupid databook. When you give out such an argument, least you can do is write what it says.



Lucci's and Kaku's speed aren't the same. Seemed to me that Lucci is strongest and fastest among CP9. And Zoro wasn't equally fast as Kaku, it's just that his battle style didn't allow Kaku to use his speed to his advantage.



Haven't seen it yet, but I'll trust your word for it. Databook is being downloaded.
And stats aren't really a deciding factor in fights.
For once, I would like someone who says that Zoro would win to simply analyze his abillities, his advantages and disadvantages.

So far, Luffy has beaten all the stronger opponents. Some of you may say that Zoro could beat them too, but that's just guesses.



Nor did I say that it was.

haven't you read the latest databook

it says the two are even and this was recent

i guess pirate king and best swordsmen in the world must be close in strength in an age of pirates

Anywhoo Luffy's rubber body keeps luffy on equal terms with Zoro going by databook, so bang imagine luffy without a devil fruit lol
Also watching the odz vs strawhat battle, Zoro deflected a direct punch from a guy who's arms are the size of 2 giants put together, if he can deflect that then why couldn't he deflect a gear 3 punch

Speed isn't much of an issue especially when Zoro's reactions are of the highest lvls, all he has to do is defend himself for a while and then luffy will tire out

the two are even and thats that until another databook says otherwise or its stated in a fight

databook yellow is the latest one

at that time how would he win
edit

Oda says in the yellow databook the two are equal

Originally Posted by One Piece Yellow
Rononoa Zoro - A Combatant
"If you are uncertain as well, then who else can we trust?!!"
Zoro trusts Luffy and they quickly became companions that can entrust their lives into each others' hands. He can be said to be the pirate crew's vice-captain and a trustworthy companion.
Absolute trust in the captain!!
Follow the captain's orders without hesitation - this is the attitude that Zoro always has, because he has faith in Luffy from the bottom of his heart! He has an equally high fighting power as Luffy and when the need arises, he will be the first person to charge forth. Even though he has a devil-like fighting capability, he recognizes Luffy's position as the captain. Moreover, even when Luffy makes the wrong decision, he will give his best to rectify the mistake and never complains. This is Zoro's attitude.
Picture of Zoro with his face smashed:
Caption: Sharing a sense of mutuality with Luffy, Zoro puts up with the enemy's beatings without making noise.
Picture of Zoro charging with sword:
"Cut the great beanstalk down towards the west side"
Caption: With just a tiny hint, he is able to understand Luffy's intentions correctly and take action immediately.
Picture at the bottom:
Zoro: Now is the moment that is crucial for all the members. Is this decision merely that fella's whim or is it something else?
Caption: Though this may lead the the destruction of the entire crew, he quietly accepts Luffy's orders.
<next page>
The man's loyalty that is faithfully maintained!!
Top picture
Zoro: ....that should be the captain's responsibility, right?!!!
Luffy: .....!!
Caption: Confronting the downcast Luffy and questions Luffy's preparedness for his role as captain seriously.
Left picture
Zoro: I will not allow anyone who intends to fetch Yusop to go out
Luffy: Eh...? Why?!?
Caption: He took on a strong stance against Yusop, who broke the rules among the crew. When it is time to be incompassionate, he will become incompassionate.
Picture with Zoro tugging Luffy's cheek
Zoro: I don't care even though you guys are slack normally, however, I will not allow the person I chose to be captain to lose his dignity.
Luffy: I will not recognise the person who go against my will as my companion.
Caption: He takes forceful corrective action when the captain loses his dignity.
Big Zoro picture: We wait here for Luffy!
Box at left bottom corner
Complete Trust, Uniform Steps
Zoro understands Luffy and knows his way of thinking, this is the mutual understanding they have developed after being companions for a long time.
Picture top
"You need to light a fire when you camp outside, isn't that usually the case?"
"Even if your life is in danger, you should always light a fire, that is the humane thing to do."
"You're a bunch of idiots!"
Picture bottom:
Zoro: This is the wood pieces formation right?
Angry person: Why are you guys so enthusiastic as well?
Caption: His idea of camping is so similar to Sanji's when they work together.

Zoro vs luffy would be a tight battle no matter past opponents

 

[Razh]

haven't you read the latest databook

Ummm... No. How many times do I need to say it?

Anywhoo Luffy's rubber body keeps luffy on equal terms with Zoro going by databook, so bang imagine luffy without a devil fruit lol
Also watching the odz vs strawhat battle, Zoro deflected a direct punch from a guy who's arms are the size of 2 giants put together, if he can deflect that then why couldn't he deflect a gear 3 punch

Lol, Luffy has devil fruit. So what? Zoro has 3 katanas. So imagine Zoro without katanas, lol.
Sure, you can number Zoro's feats of pure strenght, and there are a lot more than that one. But Luffy can do some crazy shit too. Like pushing one building with each hand. Without any gear.

And what about gear 2+3 punch?

Speed isn't much of an issue especially when Zoro's reactions are of the highest lvls, all he has to do is defend himself for a while and then luffy will tire out

Zoro doesn't fight that way. He doesn't wait for his opponents to tire out. And Luffy is no retard either. Don't simplify the battle.

 

[neomaster121]

Ummm... No. How many times do I need to say it?




Lol, Luffy has devil fruit. So what? Zoro has 3 katanas. So imagine Zoro without katanas, lol.
Sure, you can number Zoro's feats of pure strenght, and there are a lot more than that one. But Luffy can do some crazy shit too. Like pushing one building with each hand. Without any gear.

And what about gear 2+3 punch?



Zoro doesn't fight that way. He doesn't wait for his opponents to tire out. And Luffy is no retard either. Don't simplify the battle.

i presented a quote from the databook stating it if u want to read it in the post above

also i we have seen Zoro do 0 sword style and throw half a building at an enemy after being badly injured

Zoro can react to his opponents speed we've seen him do it against kaku
and i know he wouldn't wait for him to tire out im just saying if Zoro could fight luffy long enough while luffy was in gear 2 luffy would tire out quite badly

 

[Jaggerjack]

haven't you read the latest databook

it says the two are even and this was recent

Only in terms of physical strength. As Oda has made it abundantly clear, physical strength does not win fights alone.

Speed isn't much of an issue especially when Zoro's reactions are of the highest lvls, all he has to do is defend himself for a while and then luffy will tire out

Zoro's reactions are good, and they were good enough to pwnt Kaku, but they were nowhere near as good as Lucci's reactions and defenses; the same ones that Luffy got some pretty wicked hits through.
Besides, if Zoro could just defend himself indefinitely from Luffy, then he would have had no need to fight at Whiskey Peak.

 

[Razh]

i presented a quote from the databook stating it if u want to read it in the post above

Lol, it's funny when people think that you haven't read their entire posts and than try to make you read it.

I read it the first time, thank you very much.
When I get into discussion with someone i tend to read their entire posts. Out of respect if nothing else.

I know what the Databook stated, but this is still a discussion on who would win. That's hardly gonna wrap it up.

also i we have seen Zoro do 0 sword style and throw half a building at an enemy after being badly injured

Luffy pawns Zoro on barehanded department. Like you said, he has a devil fruit. He's highly resistant to blunt attacks, like kicks and punches and he has a bigger range than Zoro with his attacks.
Besides, Zoro is strong, but he focuses mostly on fighting with swords, like every real swordsman. Luffy fights barehanded all the time, and he's more used to it than Zoro.
Add the gears and that pretty much wraps it up.

Zoro can react to his opponents speed we've seen him do it against kaku
and i know he wouldn't wait for him to tire out im just saying if Zoro could fight luffy long enough while luffy was in gear 2 luffy would tire out quite badly

Assuming Luffy would go retarded and just use simple attacks that are easy to defend against.
Zoro can tire out to. I know he got tired in his fight with Kaku too.
And Luffy got so tired of using Gear 2 that he was only able to activate it 2-3 more times against Lucci (not too sure but 2 minimum). Oh right, he used Gear 3 two times after that too...

 

[Tenryuken]

The thing is that Zoro only need to hit Luffy once in order to defeat(kill) him.

 

[Razh]

The thing is that Zoro only need to hit Luffy once in order to defeat(kill) him.

Yes, that tiny detail is hard to forget.

He would need to cut him properly in order for fight to be over.

Anyways, Lucci only needed to hit Luffy with Rankyaku once too.

 

[neomaster121]

Only in terms of physical strength. As Oda has made it abundantly clear, physical strength does not win fights alone.



Zoro's reactions are good, and they were good enough to pwnt Kaku, but they were nowhere near as good as Lucci's reactions and defenses; the same ones that Luffy got some pretty wicked hits through.
Besides, if Zoro could just defend himself indefinitely from Luffy, then he would have had no need to fight at Whiskey Peak.

lol with the latest chapters thats the case with haki being used
but before that the crew top tier preety much been relying on brute strength
lol in whiskey peak the fight was preety even and the fact Luffy took a few sword attacks shows how badly hurt he would be cut

Lol, it's funny when people think that you haven't read their entire posts and than try to make you read it.

I read it the first time, thank you very much.
When I get into discussion with someone i tend to read their entire posts. Out of respect if nothing else.

I know what the Databook stated, but this is still a discussion on who would win. That's hardly gonna wrap it up.



Luffy pawns Zoro on barehanded department. Like you said, he has a devil fruit. He's highly resistant to blunt attacks, like kicks and punches and he has a bigger range than Zoro with his attacks.
Besides, Zoro is strong, but he focuses mostly on fighting with swords, like every real swordsman. Luffy fights barehanded all the time, and he's more used to it than Zoro.
Add the gears and that pretty much wraps it up.



Assuming Luffy would go retarded and just use simple attacks that are easy to defend against.
Zoro can tire out to. I know he got tired in his fight with Kaku too.
And Luffy got so tired of using Gear 2 that he was only able to activate it 2-3 more times against Lucci (not too sure but 2 minimum). Oh right, he used Gear 3 two times after that too...

ah cool cool
well about bare handed strength the fact he deflected a punch from odz could show they are both simular in that department but when it comes to range not with 108 pund cannon especially after his new sword the attack became the size of a giant slash which Zoro has yet to master.
Zoro may focus on sword fighting skill but he is quite a overal fighter, he has battled against sanji with his feet, (even with his dodgy knee) he has shown great physical strength both with and without his swords,
swords tend to be more dangerious than punches so to say because luffy uses his fist he's stronger than Zoro cause i find it almost impossible to see Luffy 1hitkoing Zoro with a punch

people think gears wraps everything up but it doesn't in my opinion, gear 3 strength got shown compared to people like Sanji and Zoro when they were deflecting giant punches from a real giant
speed is realative in one piece, Zoro's and sanji may not move as fast but they can still react and as luffy attacks there are small but split chance where he is attackable no matter how fast he is (if they react to him fast enough)

Zoro got tired after fighting kaku and taking quite a few hits, but then he got up and went to start battling against a few hundred marine captains

the only time Zoro's ever taken longer to recover than luffy is when he took all of luffy's pain
but even then recovered in 2 days, luffy takes far longer to recover when using gears not forgetting his beats and nightmere luffy pain he must have gone through

 

[Razh]

ah cool cool
well about bare handed strength the fact he deflected a punch from odz could show they are both simular in that department but when it comes to range not with 108 pund cannon especially after his new sword the attack became the size of a giant slash which Zoro has yet to master.
Zoro may focus on sword fighting skill but he is quite a overal fighter, he has battled against sanji with his feet, (even with his dodgy knee) he has shown great physical strength both with and without his swords,
swords tend to be more dangerious than punches so to say because luffy uses his fist he's stronger than Zoro cause i find it almost impossible to see Luffy 1hitkoing Zoro with a punch

When I wrote about range I meant only in fighting without weapons.

And sure, I agree that Zoro is still very strong even without his weapons.
But Luffy has too many gomu gomu no-s, and being made out of rubber, helps him a lot. Your Databook stated that they are equal in terms of strenght. That means the one who can take more damage is the winner. And that would be Luffy, but only because of DF.

people think gears wraps everything up but it doesn't in my opinion, gear 3 strength got shown compared to people like Sanji and Zoro when they were deflecting giant punches from a real giant

I don't think Gears wrap up everything. I just think that if Luffy and Zoro were fighting bare handed, Zoro couldn't keep up for long once Luffy activates Gear 2nd. And there's still Gear 3rd and combination of both.

Zoro got tired after fighting kaku and taking quite a few hits, but then he got up and went to start battling against a few hundred marine captains

Well don't you remember all the shit that Luffy has went through on Enies Lobby?

the only time Zoro's ever taken longer to recover than luffy is when he took all of luffy's pain
but even then recovered in 2 days, luffy takes far longer to recover when using gears not forgetting his beats and nightmere luffy pain he must have gone through

Zoro didn't really recover from Kuma by the time they got to Shabondy.
(http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/510/09/)

 

[neomaster121]

When I wrote about range I meant only in fighting without weapons.

And sure, I agree that Zoro is still very strong even without his weapons.
But Luffy has too many gomu gomu no-s, and being made out of rubber, helps him a lot. Your Databook stated that they are equal in terms of strenght. That means the one who can take more damage is the winner. And that would be Luffy, but only because of DF.



I don't think Gears wrap up everything. I just think that if Luffy and Zoro were fighting bare handed, Zoro couldn't keep up for long once Luffy activates Gear 2nd. And there's still Gear 3rd and combination of both.




Well don't you remember all the shit that Luffy has went through on Enies Lobby?




Zoro didn't really recover from Kuma by the time they got to Shabondy.
(http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/510/09/)

Luffy takes more damage
that i can't argue with but Zoro takes high level of damage and keeps on going
for a human his damage is far more dangerious than on a rubber body

also with luffy's pain transfer, you realise Zoro stayed awake for maybe a few hours during the early morning after taking luffy's pain still conscious his blood spread around the surrounds a few metres When it comes to taking pain Zoro does it no problem

I see what your trying to say but Zoro can boost his muscle size goriila techniques don't really require swords, also why are u considering him fighting Zoro without his swords. its like saying Luffy should fight with his hands tied

Yes luffy did alot too and it was a fight with 1 man luuci which completly left him tired n yes i know luuci had a high strength ranking, but im just saying Zoro doesn't tire easily even fighting the second strongest CP9 member

Yes you are right i shouldn't have said recovered, how a guy with a human heart recovers from the pain luffy goes through and the speed of which luffy's heart was pumping for gear two (why i think Zoro's blood was all over the place after taking his pain), but the thing is what i wanted to say is he woke up after 2 days, quicker than Luffy ususally takes to wake up after major fights

Yea gears after ennies lobby seemed to take luffy to a higher lvl than Zoro and sanji
but after the TB arc it nicely showed strength wise Zoro and sanji aren't underpa (its a reason why i think Oda gave luffy nightmere luffy mode and showed that he needed his crew to defeat Odz)

 

[cheaptrick]

during the alabasta's arc i thought they were pretty much at the same level (well i thought luffy was just a little bit stronger) but after getting gear 2nd and third , he's in a completely different league imo... right now i think zoro is much closer to sanji than luffy, in terms of strenght and speed

 

[neomaster121]

during the alabasta's arc i thought they were pretty much at the same level (well i thought luffy was just a little bit stronger) but after getting gear 2nd and third , he's in a completely different league imo... right now i think zoro is much closer to sanji than luffy, in terms of strenght and speed

hmm i guess the battle against odz with both zoro n sanji deflecting ounches as strong as luffys gear 3 attacks if not stronger didn't reveal much

Luffy speed was a match for soru both sanji and zoro can deal with that
so i have to disagree about gears making luffy far stronger

7 shichbukai
3 admirals
4 emperors

its not gonna be luffy defeating these powers 1 by 1
some attack at the same time the end of the sa arc showed that luffy as well as hius crew need to be stronger to deal with things like mutiple shichibukai attacks etc

and if as u say luffy is far from zoro n sanji well theres a big problem

 

[Razh]

I see what your trying to say but Zoro can boost his muscle size goriila techniques don't really require swords, also why are u considering him fighting Zoro without his swords. its like saying Luffy should fight with his hands tied

Well, honestly, you started it.

also i we have seen Zoro do 0 sword style and throw half a building at an enemy after being badly injured

They aren't equals and they will never be. Luffy has a DF, but Zoro uses katanas.
That's why I don't like topics that are based on "guy who uses weapons vs guy who doesn't use weapons".
But somehow I got caught up in it anyway...

 

[Akainu]

then how about... Nightmare Luffy vs. Zoro in a sword fight ?
just skills, hardly DF use (as long as NLuffy uses the sword ^^)

 

[neomaster121]

Well, honestly, you started it.



They aren't equals and they will never be. Luffy has a DF, but Zoro uses katanas.
That's why I don't like topics that are based on "guy who uses weapons vs guy who doesn't use weapons".
But somehow I got caught up in it anyway...

did i ?

im just sayign gear 2 n 3 isn't as big as an advantage to the current Zoro n sanji


lol the added strength luffy gets with being in nightmare mode i don' know what would happen

 

[cheaptrick]

hmm i guess the battle against odz with both zoro n sanji deflecting ounches as strong as luffys gear 3 attacks if not stronger didn't reveal much

Luffy speed was a match for soru both sanji and zoro can deal with that
so i have to disagree about gears making luffy far stronger

and if as u say luffy is far from zoro n sanji well theres a big problem

quite the opposite, the fact they only manage to block one of his punches imo revealed how much devastating luffy could be in third gear.
luffy could keep up with blueno's soru without using gear, with his reflex alone, and got even the edge in speed against rob lucci , the best fighter among the cp9 with second gear while zoro didn't fight a speed battle against kaku, so i can't say if his reflexes could catch up with kaku or lucci's soru, what is certain is that we never saw zoro disappear luke luffy and the cp9 do when using soru.
if you ask me about the power levels, i'd say they are pretty much reflected by their bonties

 

[neomaster121]

quite the opposite, the fact they only manage to block one of his punches imo revealed how much devastating luffy could be in third gear.
luffy could keep up with blueno's soru without using gear, with his reflex alone, and got even the edge in speed against rob lucci , the best fighter among the cp9 with second gear while zoro didn't fight a speed battle against kaku, so i can't say if his reflexes could catch up with kaku or lucci's soru, what is certain is that we never saw zoro disappear luke luffy and the cp9 do when using soru.
if you ask me about the power levels, i'd say they are pretty much reflected by their bonties

your last comment just gave me as much info as i needed to get from you ^__^

re read the begining of zoro vs kaku fight if you weant to see how zoro could deal with kaku's speed

reread a few sbs as well
bounty doesn't mean strength
or luffy would have never been able to beat crocodile with your logic 30mil vs 81mil?

reread the whole tb arc and maybe watch the anime too to get a better idea on that

 

[Jaggerjack]

The fists vs swords argument does not take into account the fact that Luffy is a very dynamic fighter and uses other things besides his fists to fight In most of his battles, he's used anything and everything around him as a weapon. He's fast, and he knows it And he's able to develop strategies on the fly and rethink things through in an instant, should the battle change.

 

[bittman]

I agree with you Jaggerjack. In dynamic and unusual environments, Luffy seems to excel more than his opponent's expect. Between destroying navigation rooms, Bone Balloon'ing warships, dodging a collapsing alabastan cave, fighting with clouds as support, dodging amongst shipwreck and even fighting on an enemy ship riddled with traps, Luffy has a knack for working with his environment.

So on that note:
* Battle on a plain grassy field: Tie
* Everywhere else: Luffy

On fists V swords: fists < swords < bone balloon (gear 3)