Discussion Luffy's Growth Rate & Stats

[BlackTiger]

Why couldn't Luffy dodge Thunder Bagua from weakened Kaido post udon if his speed improved?

Why did Luffy almost pass out from Thunder Bagua from weakened Kaido (similar scenario with pre Udon Luffy) if Luffy's durability improved?

Nice to see Oda destroyed people headcannon powercreep from WCI to Wano (1 arc) is different from powercreep from Marineford to Wano (8 arcs) or Alabasta to Wano (13 arcs) which is even a more dumber comparison by showing Boundman Luffy post udon still got blitzed and almost passed out from Thunder Bagua

 

[I Am Atomic]

Why couldn't Luffy dodge Thunder Bagua from weakened Kaido post udon if his speed improved?

Why did Luffy almost pass out from Thunder Bagua from weakened Kaido (similar scenario with pre Udon Luffy) if Luffy's durability improved?

Nice to see Oda destroyed people headcannon powercreep from WCI to Wano (1 arc) is different from powercreep from Marineford to Wano (8 arcs) or Alabasta to Wano (13 arcs) which is even a more dumber comparison by showing Boundman Luffy post udon still got blitzed and almost passed out from Thunder Bagua

If we are head cannoning everything, then it's because Blood thirsty mode attack power and speed are superior to the base form of Kaido's attack to Luffy in the beginning of Wano.

 

[BlackTiger]

If we are head cannoning everything, then it's because Blood thirsty mode attack power and speed are superior to the base form of Kaido's attack to Luffy in the beginning of Wano.

That's why it is headcannon because you are ignoring that Kaido was weakened Yamato stated this so his strength and speed decreased. You are also misinterpreting that Blood thirsty mode increased strength and speed which is never stated in the manga. Being drunk only boosts Kaido's haki and act 1 Kaido was also drunk so he also got haki boost. Kaido used Blood thirsty mode after he blitzed Luffy. So Kaido did not get speed/power boost when he blitzed ch. 1042 Boundman Luffy. Kaido's used blood thirsty mode after he blitzed Boundman Luffy. So he did not blitz Boundman Luffy with Blood thirsty mode.

Beginning of Wano Kaido was drunk so he got haki boost when he blitzed Boundman.

Act 1 Kaido: Blitzed and 1 shot act 1 Luffy when he was drunk (haki boost) Got haki boost for being drunk. Knocked out Boundman Luffy.
Onigashima Kaido: Blitzed and almost 1 shot ch. 1042 Boundman Luffy when he was not drunk (so no haki boost) and in a weakened state. Did not get haki boost since he used Blood thirsty drunk mode after he blitzed Luffy. Weakened stated by Yamato. Luffy almost passed out.

So it is consistent. Luffy's durability is consistent.

 

[grey matter]

Why couldn't Luffy dodge Thunder Bagua from weakened Kaido post udon if his speed improved?

Why did Luffy almost pass out from Thunder Bagua from weakened Kaido (similar scenario with pre Udon Luffy) if Luffy's durability improved?

Nice to see Oda destroyed people headcannon powercreep from WCI to Wano (1 arc) is different from powercreep from Marineford to Wano (8 arcs) or Alabasta to Wano (13 arcs) which is even a more dumber comparison by showing Boundman Luffy post udon still got blitzed and almost passed out from Thunder Bagua

Almost like you can't dodge everything in battle, if you're in non stop combat where hundreds of attacks are launched per second. There is a big difference between when you going for a thunder bagua straight up, vs when you use it mid combat.
By your logic, base Luffy in beginning of raid is faster than this G4 Luffy, cause that Luffy managed to barely dodge thunder bagua from full power base Kaido.


Your own panel debunk your claim of durability lmao.
Base Kaido one shot G4 Luffy in beginning of Wano, but this G4 Luffy was able to tank a bagua from hybrid Kaido and countless more attacks.
Yeah, Kaido was weakened cause he ran through a gauntlet, but he is also in his hybrid mode in drunken mode. Sooo....it kinda evens out don't you think? But nah, you won't even consider that possibility, cause headcanon is more important for you.

In before "Kaido in beginning of Wano was also drunk"
1. It was nowhere stated that Kaido was in a mode which increased his powers
2. Kaido SOBERED UP before one shotting Luffy


The only thing Oda is destroying is your delusions lmao.
Luffy went from almost being 1st commander level to straight up Yonko level in one arc, this is by far the BIGGEST power creep in one arc in the series. Period.

 

[BlackTiger]

Almost like you can't dodge everything in battle, if you're in non stop combat where hundreds of attacks are launched per second. There is a big difference between when you going for a thunder bagua straight up, vs when you use it mid combat.
By your logic, base Luffy in beginning of raid is faster than this G4 Luffy, cause that Luffy managed to barely dodge thunder bagua from full power base Kaido.


Your own panel debunk your claim of durability lmao.
Base Kaido one shot G4 Luffy in beginning of Wano, but this G4 Luffy was able to tank a bagua from hybrid Kaido and countless more attacks.
Yeah, Kaido was weakened cause he ran through a gauntlet, but he is also in his hybrid mode in drunken mode. Sooo....it kinda evens out don't you think? But nah, you won't even consider that possibility, cause headcanon is more important for you.

In before "Kaido in beginning of Wano was also drunk"
1. It was nowhere stated that Kaido was in a mode which increased his powers
2. Kaido SOBERED UP before one shotting Luffy


The only thing Oda is destroying is your delusions lmao.
Luffy went from almost being 1st commander level to straight up Yonko level in one arc, this is by far the BIGGEST power creep in one arc in the series. Period.

Because Boundman Luffy ch. 1042 did not Future Sight. Similar with ch. 923 Boundman luffy who also did not use Future Sight. Boundman when did not use Future Sight got blitzed by Thunder Bagua. So Luffy's speed is consistent.

Both are similar situations. Act 1 Luffy did not expect kaido to use Thunder Bagua. It's the same with chapter 1042 Luffy he did not expect kaido to use Thunder Bagua. Luffy in both situations got blitzed. he did not get speed boost.

No my logic is Boundman without Future Sight cannot dodge Thunder Bagua. Got blitzed. Ch. 1042 proves this. Base Luffy with Future Sight could dodge Thunder Bagua much better (ch. 1037 shows this)

Luffy did not get faster. Luffy just got better reaction speed because he used Future Sight to dodge Thunder Bagua (rooftop) instead of not using it (act 1 and ch. 1042 whn eh got blitzed by Thunder Bagua).

1. Which mode is irrelevant. Kaido got haki boost when he was drunk period. Ch. 1037 Luffy said Kaido haki got stronger and that was when Kaido was drunk.
2. Kaido was still half drunk when he 1 shot Luffy. He still got armamrnt boost.

Oda did not destroy my delusions. Pre and post udon Luffy got blitzed by Thunder Bagua. Consistent speed. Pre and post Udon Luffy almost passed out from Thunder Bagua. Consistent durability. Ch. 1042 Kaido who almost made Boundman passed out was weakened Kaido and non drunk Kaido.

He destroyed your delusions stating Luffy got speed and durability boost. Biggest power creep is nothing but your delusion since Luffy has consistent speed and durability in Wano. Luffy only got massive attack power boost via conqueror coating.

He also destroyed your delusions stating Kaido let alone Big Mom is faster than katakuri when Luffy's speed is consistent. Both pre and post Udon got blitzed in Boundman form by Thunder Bagua.

Oda showed how power up from Alabasta to Wano which is your dumb argument made Luffy from weaker than pacifista to dodging Katakuri's attacks and tanking much more powerful attack in Wano (conqueror coating).
Oda showed how power up from WCI to Wano Luffy pre and post Udon still got blitzed by Boundman and almost passed out.

Oda destroyed your delusions comparing power up from Alabasta to Wano with power up from WCI to Wano.

"Yeah, Kaido was weakened cause he ran through a gauntlet, but he is also in his hybrid mode in drunken mode. Sooo....it kinda evens out don't you think? But nah, you won't even consider that possibility, cause headcanon is more important for you."

Yes that actually supports my point. Luffy still got blitzed by the same Kaido implying Luffy did not get speed boost.
Luffy got almost knocked out by the same Kaido who did not get haki boost (unlike act 1 Kaido) implying Luffy did not get durability boost.

I actually considered this possibility. It does not change that Luffy did not get speed and durability boost. And the reason why base luffy could keep up with Kaido was because abse luffy used Future Sight constantly and Kaido did not spam his fastest attacks (Thunder Bagua). The reason why Luffy could tank Kaido's attacks was because Kaido did not use his strongest attacks (Thunder Bagua) so Luffy could stay conscious.

Luffy's speed and durability boost did not help him at all since his Boundman form still got blitzed by Thunder Bagua and Thunder Bagua still almost knocked him out. It's Kaido who rarely spammed his strongest attacks and fastest attacks which helped Luffy to tank Kaido's attacks and keep up with Kaido's attacks.

Haki boost for Kaido also does not boost Kaido's speed. SO it does not help your point that Luffy got speed boost if he could dodge weakened Kaido.

Your arguments don't help your case at all.

 

[john ellis]

@BlackTiger your arguements make no sense. Udon was probably luffy's biggest training arc in the entire story as much as you want to hate it. Udon took luffy from YC1 level to pre yonko level, he is probably twice as strong if not more. G5 luffy was not at full hp vs kaido, he was barely alive probably at 1-5% at best. He nearly died 10 seconds before he went g5 ofc he's not full health he also collasped for a week after.... he's clearly nearly dead. Kata would be ultra 1 shot by monkey god fist and it's so big he likely can't dodge it no matter how much FS mochi fruit bs you want to pull. Luffy makes monkey god fist punches kata he's dead. He's 100% not surviving the hit. Even if he does. He'll be punched to the core of the earth. Yes luffy is faster and stronger post training then pre training this is simple logic. You train you run faster and move faster.

g5 luffy is insanely strong. He is the joyboy.

 

[BlackTiger]

@BlackTiger your arguements make no sense. Udon was probably luffy's biggest training arc in the entire story as much as you want to hate it. Udon took luffy from YC1 level to pre yonko level, he is probably twice as strong if not more. G5 luffy was not at full hp vs kaido, he was barely alive probably at 1-5% at best. He nearly died 10 seconds before he went g5 ofc he's not full health he also collasped for a week after.... he's clearly nearly dead. Kata would be ultra 1 shot by monkey god fist and it's so big he likely can't dodge it no matter how much FS mochi fruit bs you want to pull. Luffy makes monkey god fist punches kata he's dead. He's 100% not surviving the hit. Even if he does. He'll be punched to the core of the earth. Yes luffy is faster and stronger post training then pre training this is simple logic. You train you run faster and move faster.

g5 luffy is insanely strong. He is the joyboy.

No what I hate is fanfiction bullshit that 1 arc made Luffy much faster when we had 3 arcs Zoro from Shells Town to Baratie and he was still relative to Baratie Sanji in speed and durability who chilling in term of powerlevel. It's funny people just chose which arc SH got massive power boost to suit their narratives and discredit past villains. Udon made Lufy from being unable to damage Kaido to being able to damage Kaido. His speed remained consistent. He in Boundman form after Udon training got blitzed by weakened Kaido. Luffy's speed is consistent. He did not get speed boost.

G5 Luffy was at full HP vs Kaido. He was dead then he revived back to fight Kaido. Gear 5 Luffy could not even dodge Thunder Bagua. How would Gear 5 Luffy outspeed base Luffy? For some reason Gear 5 Luffy cannot use Future Sight. Yeah he aint tagging Katakuri.

If Luffy was faster post Udon then why did he get blitzed in Boundman form by weakened Kaido? Shouldn't he easily dodge Thunder Bagua from weakened Kaido if Luffy got much faster after Udon training? Only power up Luffy got was attack power through conqueror coating.

 

[LaGOAT]

No what I hate is fanfiction bullshit that 1 arc made Luffy much faster when we had 3 arcs Zoro from Shells Town to Baratie and he was still relative to Baratie Sanji in speed and durability who chilling in term of powerlevel. It's funny people just chose which arc SH got massive power boost to suit their narratives and discredit past villains. Udon made Lufy from being unable to damage Kaido to being able to damage Kaido. His speed remained consistent. He in Boundman form after Udon training got blitzed by weakened Kaido. Luffy's speed is consistent. He did not get speed boost.

G5 Luffy was at full HP vs Kaido. He was dead then he revived back to fight Kaido. Gear 5 Luffy could not even dodge Thunder Bagua. How would Gear 5 Luffy outspeed base Luffy? For some reason Gear 5 Luffy cannot use Future Sight. Yeah he aint tagging Katakuri.

If Luffy was faster post Udon then why did he get blitzed in Boundman form by weakened Kaido? Shouldn't he easily dodge Thunder Bagua from weakened Kaido if Luffy got much faster after Udon training? Only power up Luffy got was attack power through conqueror coating.

What u don’t understand is each arc make characters no matter how u slice. even if its a slight increase. it just that oda made a huge power creep in wano. (You can even argue bigger than the 2 year time skip) and it’s hard for u to believe that much of an increase. ur durability argue is flaw or else u will say alabasta luffy durability=rooftop base luffy which is ridiculous

 

[BlackTiger]

What u don’t understand is each arc make characters no matter how u slice. even if its a slight increase. it just that oda made a huge power creep in wano. (You can even argue bigger than the 2 year time skip) and it’s hard for to to believe that much of an increase. ur durability argue is flaw or else u will say alabasta luffy durability=rooftop base luffy which is ridiculous

So you agree Baratie Sanji>Shells Town Zoro>Episode 1 Luffy.

By powercreep logic Episode 1 Luffy got powercreep until he met Zoro and they're still equal.

By powercreep logic Zoro got powercreep from Shells Town to Barate and he was still relative to Baratie Sanji who did not get powercreep.

It's not similar at all. We saw Luffy's progression in Wano from WCI. In Udon he only trained his armament. He did not train his speed or durability. The only power up he got was conqueror coating which boosts attack power.

From Alabasta to Wano we saw Luffy's progression he trained Gear 2, Gear 3, trained under Rayeligh, he pushed his limit by beating 500 animals who were stronger than him therefore increasing all his stats. It's not similar at all. The he got Future Sight and internal destruction and conqueror coating.

Pre Udon Luffy got blitzed by Thunder Bagua. Post Udon Luffy in Boundman form got blitzed by weakened Thunder Bagua. If Luffy got much faster then Boudnman Luffy should easily dodge Thunder bagua but it's not the case.

For some reason no matter how manytimes I posted these it is always ignored

 

[BlackTiger]

ok g5 luffy speed blitz and 1 shots kata in many many ways... but even if he doesn't speed blitz kata for some.... reason he's atleast as fast as him monkey god fists him, which good luck dodging or tanking. Also how does kata harm g5 luffy? g5 luffy can take tank kaido attacks extremely well, like g5 luffy is just so so so so above kata it's not even close. but yes how does g5 luffy outpace base luffy, well simple he moves faster and just does. He also can use future sight in g5 clearly he just didn.t Nor would future sight matter, g5 luffy is just so much stronger then base luffy. May i remind you monkey god fist punched kaido from the middle of the sky into the lava of earth's core. Kaido is a fucking unbeatable yonko who'se immunie to basically everything. Imagine someone like kata being hit by that. It's also the size of a small island, how do you dodge it?

also your post above is simple being weakend by battle doesn't matter much people still hit as hard when there weakened it's always been the case look at final attacks, they're always the strongest no matter how much damage people have taken. Kaido being weakened by damage doesn't reduce his AP power or speed. Hybrid kaido> kaido so yes kaido has to try harder to hit post udon luffy also i believe there was another yonko making it harder to dodge attacks with kaido.

also no aCoC boosts durabillity aswell, look at the yonko. aCoC+g5 luffy is probably untouchable from anyone yc1 and below.

At least quoted me if you want to debunk my statements. Gear 5 Luffy got tagged by Dragon Kaido several times and has never shown Future Sight. He cannot dodge Thunder Bagua. No indication of Future Sight. Gorosei said Gear 5 boosts physical strength and rubber body. There is no speed boost from Gear 5. Katakuri would dance around Gear 5 regardless. Gear 5 would still win but it won't be low diff.

Luffy after his fight against Katakuri got tagged by Raishin who is not even a veteran. Being weakened reduced speed.

Luffy after his battle with CRacker (12 hours ) and Sanji needed dozen armament haki to take down 2 chess soldiers. Being weakened reduced attack power.

So yes Kaido's attack power and speed decreased due to being weakened.

Conqueror coating does not boost durability. If that's the case then why did Boundman Luffy almost pass out (similar with act 1 Luffy) from weakened Thunder bagua?

 

[DeadlyBeast]

If we are head cannoning everything, then it's because Blood thirsty mode attack power and speed are superior to the base form of Kaido's attack to Luffy in the beginning of Wano.

You don't even need headcanon to dispute this him. This move is ROARING THUNDER BAGUA, which is the more advanced version of the move. It is not crazy to think it's faster. He just keeps posting this panel and comparing this to Thunder Bagua when they are not the same move! Not to mention Luffy was moving at full speed in Kaido's direction when this happened which would make it much harder to dodge.

Here is the whole exchange for context

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 26, 2022, Original Post Date: Jun 26, 2022 ---

Do y'all think prime Oden given a bit of time to train would have been able to defeat current Kaido? Considering that 20 years ago it seemed like Oden would have won the fight I always wondered if Toki had sent Oden to the future if he could have defeated current Kaido.

 

[BlackTiger]

You don't even need headcanon to dispute this him. This move is ROARING THUNDER BAGUA, which is the more advanced version of the move. It is not crazy to think it's faster. He just keeps posting this panel and comparing this to Thunder Bagua when they are not the same move! Not to mention Luffy was moving at full speed in Kaido's direction when this happened which would make it much harder to dodge.

Here is the whole exchange for context

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 26, 2022, Original Post Date: Jun 26, 2022 ---

Do y'all think prime Oden given a bit of time to train would have been able to defeat current Kaido? Considering that 20 years ago it seemed like Oden would have won the fight I always wondered if Toki had sent Oden to the future if he could have defeated current Kaido.

And Kaido is weakened in those panels. Why do you keep ignoring this? What makes you think the strength and speed of that advanced version did not decrease when Kaido's strength and speed decreased in those panels you posted due to being weakened confirmed by Yamato? And no statement that Roaring Thunder Bagua is a faster move. The only obvious thing is Roaring Thunder Bagua has more destructive power than Thunder Bagua because Roaring Thunder Bagua is used to clash with Over Kong Gun.

I'm comparing Thunder Bagua fresh Kaido with Roaring Thunder Bagua WEAKENED Kaido. I made it bigger so you will not ignore this weakened state of Kaido. So obviously even though Roaring Thunder Bagua is a stronger move its strength is not at its full potential due to Kaido being weakened which makes it debatable whether it is as strong as Thunder Bagua from fresh Kaido or not.

What is the prove that Roaring Thunder Bagua is faster than Thunder Bagua? Is King Kong Gun faster than Kong Gun? Is Grizzly Magnum or Thor Elephant Gun faster than Elephant Gun? The only confirmed thins is King Kong Gun>Kong Gun in attack power. Thor Elephant Gun/Grizzly Magnum>Elephant Gun in attack power. There is no confirmation that King Kong Gun is faster than Kong Gun or Grizzly Magnum or Thor Elephant Gun is faster than Elephant Gun

 

[BlackTiger]

Stubborn people ignore that Kaido was weakened. Stubborn people think Luffy got magically faster (ignoring that Kaido was weakened) when Luffy did not get faster in his fight against Katakuri. Stubborn people always cherry pick which fight Luffy got faster so they can push Kaido blitzes past villains. The irony.

Even if I type this in bold and make this text bigger stubborn people would still think Luffy magically got faster not that Kaido got weaker

 

[I Am Atomic]

Stubborn people ignore that Kaido was weakened. Stubborn people think Luffy got magically faster (ignoring that Kaido was weakened) when Luffy did not get faster in his fight against Katakuri. Stubborn people always cherry pick which fight Luffy got faster so they can push Kaido blitzes past villains. The irony.

Even if I type this in bold and make this text bigger stubborn people would still think Luffy magically got faster not that Kaido got weaker

So, you are the only one that is not stubborn?

 

[shailks]

people would still think Luffy magically got faster not that Kaido got weaker

Fights are always relative. Luffy getting faster is the same as Kaido getting slower in a luffy vs kaido. If you mean that Kaido got slower in absolute terms because of all the fights he had before, that is reasonable assumption but then you would have to accept that Luffy maintained himself pretty well enough to turn it into an advantage over kaido comapared to the start of the war.

 

[Crimson Ice]

Yes it does matter. Luffy's training in udon was armament and conqueror coating boosts attack power. Yes Oda did it. Oda showed pre Udon Luffy and post udon Luffy (ch. 1042) got blitzed by Thunder Bagua. Luffy's speed is consistent. Oda showed pre Udon Luffy passed out from Thunder bagua while post Udon Luffy (ch. 1042) almost passed out from weakened Kaido. Luffy's durability is consistent. Two Luffy's stats which are consistent Oda clearly showed Luffy's speed and durability in Onigashima were similar with his speed and durability pre Udon something that you ignored.

IT DOESN'T MATTER! IT'S ODA STORY! HE CAN DO WHAT HE WANTS!

Yeah sure, hybrid Kaido and base Kaido is the same.

@the bold, read your own words. Getting one shot and ALMOST passing out isn't the same. Your own words show no consistency; words mean things.

It's not terrible. You just refused to admit Kaido was weakened when he blitzed and almost 1 shot Boundman Luffy. In your head Kaido was fresh when he 1 shot and blitzed ch. 1042 Boundman Luffy. It's not my take which is terrible. it's your reading comprehension which is terrible ignoring the obvious manga panels.

It's shitty logic. Kaido never almost one-shot boundman Luffy on the rooftop; you don't know what one shot means. They had been fighting for multiple chapters, and Luffy had accumulated damage, and Kaido's haki had expressively gotten stronger since the start; if anything, his blows were at their strongest.

Your logic is so bad you defeat your own argument in your post.

You put Big Mom's durability over Kaido. Not even Big Mom's fans put her durability over Kaido. Neutral readers know Kaido>>>Big Mom in durability. The reason why you are wanking Big Mom's durability is to wank Kidd. You are Kidd wanker and the extremes one at that. You need to twist the manga putting Big Mom's durability over Kaido just to make Kidd looked good. It's bad.

That was a typo, but I shouldn't have expected you to notice. If I say Big Mam is second, who do you think is first? I meant Big mam was behind Kaido. Dumbass.

In Enies Lobby Nami said Luffy and Zoro got stronger if they fought for their friends. Luffy and Zoro did not fight for that in Water 7 while in Eneis Lobby the fought for Robin. Pre Udon and post Udon Luffy on the other hand fought for his friends and in Boundman form he got blitzed and almost passed out. Luffy's speed and durability are consistent.

The whole crew got stronger. And who cares if Nami said they got stronger when they fought for their friends, it was a power creep. Sanji, Luffy and Zoro all got massively stronger, even outside of their powerups.

You still have not answered if Baratie Sanji>Shells Town Zoro if you think powercreep happens in each arc. Why are you ignoring this question?

Because it's irrelevant nor do I remember how strong Shells Town Zoro is. I can say for certain Enies Lobby Sanji>>>>>Waters 7 Zoro.

Nah you need to give a shit because Kaido was weakened stated by Yamato. Kaido in ch. 1042 was arguable weaker than Kaido in act 1 in term of strength and speed who fought Luffy.

Prove it.

The reason why ch. 1042 was a harder battle was because Kaido's used a lot of his strongest attacks (drunken mode, stronger version of Thunder Bagua and Ragnarok). Kaido accumulated more damage since he fought fresh Luffy (ch. 1027) while Kaido was weakened stated by Yamato. Kaido was even more damaged than Luffy so his strength and speed decreased even more while Luffy's strength and speed remained constant so it makes sense why Luffy almost passed out. Fresh Kaido 1 shot ch. 1042 Boundman Luffy.

Kaido was weakened but then he got a haki bloom, his haki is what strengthens his attacks.


@the bold. Prove it. Yeah, prove that Luffy, who had been slept two different times is more damaged than Kaido.

Post Udon Luffy also almost got 1 shot by weakened Kaido (ch. 1042) so I don't know what your argument is. Luffy's durability is consistent. Thunder Bagua is Kaido's strongest attack.

>Act 1 Luffy is one shot by base Kaido.
>Luffy survives a Thunder Bagua from a hybrid Kaido who has a stronger haki.
>You claim Kaido almost one shot Luffy so it's consistent.


1.) Almost one-shotting and one-shotting aren't the same so you're already wrong.
2.) You don't know what a one-shot is. Both men had been fighting and damaging each other for a while, both are visibly damaged by the time 1042 comes around so no Kaido didn't ALMOST ONE-SHOT LUFFY.

You need to care because Luffy survived Kaido's attacks since Kaido used weaker attacks on Luffy (not his Thunder Bagua) so no durability boost. Unless you can show me panels of Luffy casually tanked Thunder bagua. That never happened.

Luffy survived a Thunder Bagua. Show me Kaido knocking out a fresh Luffy with a Thunder Bagua in their third round.

I also said Act 1 Kaido was also drunk and act 1 Kaido's haki also got stronger so it does not help your arguments at all.

READ! READ! REEEEAAD!

No he got haki bloom when he was drunk. Act 1 Kaido was drunk therefore his haki also got stronger. Luffy literally said his haki got stronger after Kaido became drunk. Kaido stated Luffy was the first person to go toe to toe with him meaning Kaido viewed Yamato, scabbards, other 4 SN beneath him. Haki bloom happens in extreme battle stated by rayleigh. Why would Kaido got haki bloom fighting opponents he consider beneath him?

Kaido is drunk herwhen he is headbutting Luffy

You can see him crying in that panel.
The next page Luffy stated Kaido's haki got stronger.

Does not take a genius to figure it out that being drunk boosts Kaido's haki.

That's not proof he gets it every time he's drunk. You're gonna have to do better than that.

Current Luffy=WCI Luffy in speed and durability

Current Luffy>>>>>>WCI Luffy in everything.

I addressed kaido's haki. Act 1 Kaido was also drunk therefore his haki also got stronger.

You didn't address a damn thing. You posted panels which didn't help you at all.

No you just underestimated Katakuri, refused to admit Kaido got haki bloom from being drunk, running from my question if Baratie Sanji>Shells Town Zoro if powercreep exists, ignored that Kaido was weakened in ch. 1042 simple. Luffy's durability to external attacks is very high. Luffy did not get durability boost. Pre Udon Luffy got 1 shot by fresh Kaido while post Udon Luffy (ch. 1042) almost got 1 shot by much weaker Kaido (Yamato stated Kaido got weaker. He was in hybrid but it does not change that his power and speed decreased) in term of strength and speed. Luffy's durability is consistent. Luffy tanked an attack that could harm Kaido. Kaido's durability>>>Big Mom who almost died when she fell from Wedding Cake plateau. WCI Luffy has no trouble taking current Kidd's strongest attacks.

This is just your repeating all your bad points at the end. Don't make me read all this twice.

 

[BlackTiger]

IT DOESN'T MATTER! IT'S ODA STORY! HE CAN DO WHAT HE WANTS!

Yeah sure, hybrid Kaido and base Kaido is the same.

@the bold, read your own words. Getting one shot and ALMOST passing out isn't the same. Your own words show no consistency; words mean things.

Yeah it's matter a lot Oda showed Yamato say Kaido being weakened as the reason why Luffy can keep up with Kaido. Nah Kaido was weakened so Luffy. almost passed out. Doesn't matter in hybrid or not. Kaido was weakened that Kaido was weaker and Luffy almost got 1 shot.

Act 1 Kaido:
+1 Haki boost due to being drunk
-1 Base form

Kaido who 1 on 1 Luffy
+1 Hybrid form
-1 Weakened
-1 Did not get haki boost since he was not drunk when he almost 1 shot ch. 1042 Boundman Luffy

Act 1 Kaido was stronger 1 shot Boundman Luffy with Thunder Bagua. Kaido who 1 on 1 Luffy was weaker due to weakened and did not get haki boost and Luffy almost passed out. If Kaido were fresh or if Kaido got haki boost by being drunk, he would 1 shot ch. 1042 Boundman Luffy so yes Luffy's durability is consistent.


Luffy's durability did not get boost when he fought Katakuri so why would his durability get a boost when he fought Kaido? What is this cherry picking which fight Luffy got durability and speed boost when that did not happen in his fight against Katakuri?

It's shitty logic. Kaido never almost one-shot boundman Luffy on the rooftop; you don't know what one shot means. They had been fighting for multiple chapters, and Luffy had accumulated damage, and Kaido's haki had expressively gotten stronger since the start; if anything, his blows were at their strongest.

Your logic is so bad you defeat your own argument in your post.

Because kaido did not use his strongest attack Thunder Bagua. If Luffy 1 shot Zoro with King Kong Gun ad then Zoro tanks Elephant Gun that doesn't mean Zoro's durability increases. That means Luffy uses weaker attacks same with Kaido here he uses weaker attacks therefore luffy did not get 1 shot

Luffy's durability did not get boost when he fought Katakuri so why would his durability get a boost when he fought Kaido? What is this cherry picking which fight Luffy got durability and speed boost when that did not happen in his fight against Katakuri?

No only when he was drunk Kaido got haki boost. Kaido got weaker Yamato confirmed this while Luffy ate and slept. So when they fought at full power Luffy was at full health while Kaido was weaker than he was.

That was a typo, but I shouldn't have expected you to notice. If I say Big Mam is second, who do you think is first? I meant Big mam was behind Kaido. Dumbass.

She is much less durable than Kaido idiot. Salty much?

Prove it.

Yamato stated it in chapter 1027

Clouds started to disappear. Kaido was weaker there than act 1 Kaido. Kaido was drunk in act 1 he got haki boost. He was not drunk when he almost 1 shot ch. 1042 Boundman Luffy and he was also weaker so those 2 factors were the reason why Luffy almost passed out. Fresh Kaido would 1 shot ch. 1042 Luffy with Thunder Bagua.

Kaido was weakened but then he got a haki bloom, his haki is what strengthens his attacks.


@the bold. Prove it. Yeah, prove that Luffy, who had been slept two different times is more damaged than Kaido.

No he did not get haki bloom . Only when he was drunk. Kaido later cannot overpower conqueror coating Roc Gatling Gun meaning his haki went back to normal matching Luffy. Moreover Kaido almost 1 shot Boundman Luffy ch. 1042 not in his not in his drunk mode. SO his hkai did not get a boost

Yamato stated Kaido was weakened. Luffy ate and slept he was in full power. Kaido was even more weakened.

Luffy recovered from Magellan's posion after he ate and slept. Same way he recovered in WCI after he ate a lot and slept. I don't see any reason why it's different case here. Moreover Heart Pirates treated his wounds. Luffy was at full power when he fought Kaido the third time.

Read the manga properly next time with your eyes open. I did not say Luffy was more damaged. I said Kaido was more damaged. Luffy ate meats and he recovered 100% while Kaido got weaker. That's the reason why Luffy could keep up with Kaido.

>Act 1 Luffy is one shot by base Kaido.
>Luffy survives a Thunder Bagua from a hybrid Kaido who has a stronger haki.
>You claim Kaido almost one shot Luffy so it's consistent.


1.) Almost one-shotting and one-shotting aren't the same so you're already wrong.
2.) You don't know what a one-shot is. Both men had been fighting and damaging each other for a while, both are visibly damaged by the time 1042 comes around so no Kaido didn't ALMOST ONE-SHOT LUFFY.

No Luffy almost got 1 shot by weaker Kaido who was not drunk (no haki boost) his durability is consistent.. If Luffy almost got 1 hot by fresh Kaido or Kaido who was drunk meaning haki boost then his dura increased but he almost got 1 shot by much weaker Kaido so no his dura is consistent.

Luffy's durability did not get boost when he fought Katakuri so why would his durability get a boost when he fought Kaido? What is this cherry picking which fight Luffy got durability and speed boost when that did not happen in his fight against Katakuri?

And Luffy was in full power when he started fighting Kaido 1 on 1 while Kaido was weakened stated by Yamato so no Kaido was more damaged than Luffy.

Luffy survived a Thunder Bagua. Show me Kaido knocking out a fresh Luffy with a Thunder Bagua in their third round.

Against weaker Kaido and Kaido who was not drunk (no haki boost) right not against fresh Kaido who was drunk (haki boost) in act 1 so his durability is consistent. Act 1 Kaido got haki boost due to being drunk. Ch. 1042 Kaido was weaker Yamato confirmed this and did not get haki boost since he was not drunk and still Luffy got whiteyed he never tanked Thunder Bagua. His eyes got white eye he passed out there but he got back up do to his will power. And that was weakened Kaido. Weaker Kaido.

Luffy's durability did not get boost when he fought Katakuri so why would his durability get a boost when he fought Kaido? What is this cherry picking which fight Luffy got durability and speed boost when that did not happen in his fight against Katakuri?

READ! READ! REEEEAAD!

Then why can't Kaido conqueror coating overpower Luffy here if his haki got boost consistently unless he only got boost only in drunk mode?

That's not proof he gets it every time he's drunk. You're gonna have to do better than that.

Yes it is because later Kaido haki went back to normal he can't overpower Luffy haki here and here he is sober

Current Luffy>>>>>>WCI Luffy in everything

WCI Luffy=Current Luffy in speed and durability. You have not answered if Baratie Sanji>Shells Town Zoro

Luffy's durability did not get boost when he fought Katakuri so why would his durability get a boost when he fought Kaido? What is this cherry picking which fight Luffy got durability and speed boost when that did not happen in his fight against Katakuri?

You didn't address a damn thing. You posted panels which didn't help you at all.

His haki went back to normal cannot overpower Luffy's haki if his haki boost is permanent not only when he was drunk then Luffy should get overpowered here in panels above.

This is just your repeating all your bad points at the end. Don't make me read all this twice.

No you are just running sway from my Baratie Sanji>Shells Town Zoro question because it destroys your powercreep argument. Coward.

So, you are the only one that is not stubborn? Ok v2 of King Moe, Nik and Critical mindset

So saying Kaido is weakened is being stubborn I guess being a good manga reader means you are stubborn. Then what are you ignoring the obvious manga panel that Kaido is weakened.

Fights are always relative. Luffy getting faster is the same as Kaido getting slower in a luffy vs kaido. If you mean that Kaido got slower in absolute terms because of all the fights he had before, that is reasonable assumption but then you would have to accept that Luffy maintained himself pretty well enough to turn it into an advantage over kaido comapared to the start of the war.

I did not see that when Luffy fought Katakuri. Base Luffy was still much slower than Katakuri near the end of WCI arc.

 

[afromarco005]

Do you think that Base Kaido is weaker than his hybrid form?

Cause I believe that Oda made a very bad job at portraying hybrid Kaido’s strength…

 

[BlackTiger]

Do you think that weakened hybrid Kaido is as strong as fresh base Kaido?

Because Oda never showed Luffy got stronger and more durable in his fight against Katakuri but people insist that Luffy got magically faster and more durable in this fight against Kaido. I wonder why. Maybe it's the fear that Kaido cannot hit commander level character if Luffy's speed stays consistent.

 

[DeadlyBeast]

And Kaido is weakened in those panels. Why do you keep ignoring this?

I'll keep ignoring this until you provide evidence that the same move get progressively weaker as a fight progresses.

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 27, 2022, Original Post Date: Jun 27, 2022 ---

Stubborn people ignore that Kaido was weakened. Stubborn people think Luffy got magically faster (ignoring that Kaido was weakened) when Luffy did not get faster in his fight against Katakuri. Stubborn people always cherry pick which fight Luffy got faster so they can push Kaido blitzes past villains. The irony.

Even if I type this in bold and make this text bigger stubborn people would still think Luffy magically got faster not that Kaido got weaker

HEADCANON!!!