Canon Magellan goes through SHP gauntlet

[Ramen]

Sanji doesn't have fire in his system and speed is pointless in this fight. Sanji only has melee attacks and Magellan can surround himself with meters of lethal poison. Until Sanji gets a long-range attack, Magellan counters him hard.

And, again: Sanji doesn't have fire in his system.


That scene has nothing to do with this. Zoro was surrounded by hundreds of enemies, most of them high-level marines and DF users. He didn't know their abilities and he didn't have time to figure them out either. He just tried to slash Shu (that's the "rust marine") in melee like he would any other normal enemy because he didn't know Shu had the power to grab his sword and rust it.

They extended the fight in the anime and made it absurd, but in the manga it was only a single, small panel that caught Zoro offguard.

Also, you're trying to downplay Zoro based on a "feat" from Enies Lobby when we're talking about the current Strawhats in Onigashima. You like to downplay his resilience by saying his old durability feats don't count "because he fainted to Kamazou", but you ignore his progress in every single trait like how his attacks have improved, "because he lost a sword two years ago". That is not objective nor fair.


Reiju has never shown poisons strong enough to act like acid, and that wasn't even Magellan's strongest poison. There's no reason to believe RS can protect from this kind of attack, specially not since it doesn't cover Sanji's head and he would need to dive his full body in the poison to reach Magellan.

This is not "a tricky" opponent like, for example, Law, this is an opponent that you can't approach in melee or you die. Sanji gets countered hard by Magellan in a way characters like Zoro, who just happen to have long range attacks, are not.

Jinbei is also hard-countered unless they fight on the sea, in which case he could possibly hard counter Magellan. Luffy has a chance to beat him with his G2/4 speed and emission haki, but not without putting himself a lot at risk.


Normal CoA is not enough, it should be emission CoA, since the invisible barrier around the user can potentially protect him. Since only Luffy so far has confirmed emission haki in the crew, and since he can just cover his arm and extend it instead of covering his whole body to reach him, he's likely to win.

However, Zoro can probably cut Magellan down from long-range.

Not only was Ivankov able to damage Magellan from long-range, we also know Shiryu was considered Magellan's equal back in the day and he was only a normal swordsman, which pretty much confirms that air blades from a skilled enough swordsman work on him. I believe Zoro is one.

That depends on Zoro knowing Magellan's skills, obviously. If he rushes with no info instead of staying back and attacking long-range he can get defeated, but since there are no fight conditions stating otherwise in the first post I assume that they both know how the other one fights.

Fair, I feel like Jinbei might be able to do something from long range as well.

 

[Nie Li]

Fair, I feel like Jinbei might be able to do something from long range as well.

Jinbe has a chance as long as there's water around, but I don't know if the water would go through the venom or if it would ""die"" as well.

I need to find a better word.

 

[Shasha23]

Jinbe has a chance as long as there's water around, but I don't know if the water would go through the venom or if it would ""die"" as well.

I need to find a better word.

Maybe you were looking for evaporate?

I was also thinking Jinbe would have a chance but when i thought about venom demon that quickly changed since that ability pretty much decays any form of solid matter that it comes in contact with it.

 

[M3J]

Round 9 would be the furthest he gets, if not 8. Jinbei and Zoro have ranged attacks that can hurt paramecia, so as long as they keep their distance and avoid breathing in the fumes, they should be fine.

 

[King Moe]

Sanji doesn't have fire in his system and speed is pointless in this fight. Sanji only has melee attacks and Magellan can surround himself with meters of lethal poison. Until Sanji gets a long-range attack, Magellan counters him hard.

And, again: Sanji doesn't have fire in his system.


That scene has nothing to do with this. Zoro was surrounded by hundreds of enemies, most of them high-level marines and DF users. He didn't know their abilities and he didn't have time to figure them out either. He just tried to slash Shu (that's the "rust marine") in melee like he would any other normal enemy because he didn't know Shu had the power to grab his sword and rust it.

They extended the fight in the anime and made it absurd, but in the manga it was only a single, small panel that caught Zoro offguard.

Also, you're trying to downplay Zoro based on a "feat" from Enies Lobby when we're talking about the current Strawhats in Onigashima. You like to downplay his resilience by saying his old durability feats don't count "because he fainted to Kamazou", but you ignore his progress in every single trait like how his attacks have improved, "because he lost a sword two years ago". That is not objective nor fair.


Reiju has never shown poisons strong enough to act like acid, and that wasn't even Magellan's strongest poison. There's no reason to believe RS can protect from this kind of attack, specially not since it doesn't cover Sanji's head and he would need to dive his full body in the poison to reach Magellan.

This is not "a tricky" opponent like, for example, Law, this is an opponent that you can't approach in melee or you die. Sanji gets countered hard by Magellan in a way characters like Zoro, who just happen to have long range attacks, are not.

Jinbei is also hard-countered unless they fight on the sea, in which case he could possibly hard counter Magellan. Luffy has a chance to beat him with his G2/4 speed and emission haki, but not without putting himself a lot at risk.


Normal CoA is not enough, it should be emission CoA, since the invisible barrier around the user can potentially protect him. Since only Luffy so far has confirmed emission haki in the crew, and since he can just cover his arm and extend it instead of covering his whole body to reach him, he's likely to win.

However, Zoro can probably cut Magellan down from long-range.

Not only was Ivankov able to damage Magellan from long-range, we also know Shiryu was considered Magellan's equal back in the day and he was only a normal swordsman, which pretty much confirms that air blades from a skilled enough swordsman work on him. I believe Zoro is one.

That depends on Zoro knowing Magellan's skills, obviously. If he rushes with no info instead of staying back and attacking long-range he can get defeated, but since there are no fight conditions stating otherwise in the first post I assume that they both know how the other one fights.

He does have fire in his system as it shown he can instantly lit himself and his whole body on fire, not just on legs. Also speed is not pointless given impact it has along with his power to damage Magellen. He was hurt by tre-timeskip G2 strikes, he get hurt more by post-timeskip strikes especially fire can neutralize and even combustible elements with poison he has.

And when he is fighting Magellen how would he know how to fight against his ability too? We haven't seen Magellen at his full power to be honest, so that isn't enough of what Zoro has to show he can do much on him either. If cutting from a far would have work, why didn't Zoro did same when guy could rust away his blades and instead had to force himself to use another weapon and almost got defeated if Usopp didn't save him. Saying 'He can cut him from far away' is not justifiable means when performance doesn't show that. Magellen is more variety to himself on what he does than be defeated by one-shot slice or if he can be harm without poison destroying Zoro's weapons.

Not downplaying, but your downplaying characters against him pretending he can easily get the win or they won't try to counter or block his attacks especially dodging him. Zoro isn't perfect specimen, he still just character with flaws and we see it in many times from fights with tricky enemies especially DF users, he isn't good with them in solo fight. Why Magallen is different on that?

Given how Germa's tech is very hype to be desire especially for Yonko like Big Mom and her crew, If poison or acid was enough to destroy it or destroy RS suits, it wouldn't get hype needed if there ways of damaging it easily. RS is very diverse on what it can give even it not attack power, but it won't be harm by Magellen's DF powers much. He doesn't get counter hard, he actually opposite to countering Magellen hard while Zoro is on the end struggling with tricky enemy that he is one as he isn't straightforward as your making him to. You got stop downplaying characters every time when they face with Zoro. There are enemies he can beat and enemies he can't. this is one of these occasions.

Also Sanji shown he can do long-range attack as I remember a scene in FI he send multiple fire attacks from long range hitting many New Fishman Pirate fodders from distance away, so wouldn't say he just close combat as we never know on his new techniques he develop as well. Though not saying even that is enough as Magellen can be a challenging, but depending on character. This is type of situation where Sanji do better than Zoro in enemy they face just same like Sanji can beat Apoo more compare to Zoro given he can cover his ears and fight with his legs, but Zoro can't given he need to block hearing and need his hands for that and won't attack how he likes. Just the honest truth, nothing to do with what you stating.

 

[Nie Li]

He does have fire in his system as it shown he can instantly lit himself and his whole body on fire, not just on legs. Also speed is not pointless given impact it has along with his power to damage Magellen. He was hurt by tre-timeskip G2 strikes, he get hurt more by post-timeskip strikes especially fire can neutralize and even combustible elements with poison he has.

- Sanji can lit himself on fire, but there's no fire inside him.

- Luffy could only damage Magellan thanks to Mr.3's ability and once Magellan got serious and used his strongest venom Luffy couldn't touch him anymore. Sanji can't do anything with only fire and speed. He's hard-countered by Magellan.

If Sanji could kick Magellan of course he would destroy him, but Magellan is strong because he cannot be kicked that easily thanks to his overpowered DF.

And when he is fighting Magellen how would he know how to fight against his ability too? We haven't seen Magellen at his full power to be honest, so that isn't enough of what Zoro has to show he can do much on him either. If cutting from a far would have work, why didn't Zoro did same when guy could rust away his blades and instead had to force himself to use another weapon and almost got defeated if Usopp didn't save him. Saying 'He can cut him from far away' is not justifiable means when performance doesn't show that. Magellen is more variety to himself on what he does than be defeated by one-shot slice or if he can be harm without poison destroying Zoro's weapons.

You're using a non-canon anime-only feat from pre-Timeskip as proof. I already addressed this in my previous post.

This point is not valid, and Usopp never saved Zoro in the manga, nor did Zoro ever use another person's swords in the manga.

Given how Germa's tech is very hype to be desire especially for Yonko like Big Mom and her crew, If poison or acid was enough to destroy it or destroy RS suits, it wouldn't get hype needed if there ways of damaging it easily. RS is very diverse on what it can give even it not attack power, but it won't be harm by Magellen's DF powers much. He doesn't get counter hard, he actually opposite to countering Magellen hard while Zoro is on the end struggling with tricky enemy that he is one as he isn't straightforward as your making him to. You got stop downplaying characters every time when they face with Zoro. There are enemies he can beat and enemies he can't. this is one of these occasions.

Zoro counters Magellan and Magellan counters Sanji. Fights in One Piece sometimes are like rock, paper, scissor. In this example, Sanji is scissor and Magellan is rock, and I have already explained that. I'm not downplaying Magellan, I have actually hyped him up many times in the Power Level thread because I think he's a beast, but Zoro is a bad opponent for him and you'd see that if you stopped using anime-only feats from pre-TS to downplay him.

You can't make up feats for the RS until the RS actually shows said feats. So far, there's nothing to suggest it would protect Sanji from magellan's poison, especially not since it doesn't cover his face.

Also Sanji shown he can do long-range attack as I remember a scene in FI he send multiple fire attacks from long range hitting many New Fishman Pirate fodders from distance away, so wouldn't say he just close combat as we never know on his new techniques he develop as well. Though not saying even that is enough as Magellen can be a challenging, but depending on character. This is type of situation where Sanji do better than Zoro in enemy they face just same like Sanji can beat Apoo more compare to Zoro given he can cover his ears and fight with his legs, but Zoro can't given he need to block hearing and need his hands for that and won't attack how he likes. Just the honest truth, nothing to do with what you stating.

I don't remember Sanji's long-range attack. Show me the panel. If he can really attack hard from afar I could reconsider Sanji vs Magellan.

Apoo has nothing to do with this so I won't address that. I'll only say that yes, Sanji may be more suited for opponents that Zoro isn't that suited for (although I can't think of any right now, there could be), but Magellan is not the case. Magellan is not tricky. Magellan is a big, slow target with a huge, lethal, venom armor. It's not something that Zoro has to think hard for a strategy to deal with him. He just has to cut from afar.

 

[King Moe]

- Sanji can lit himself on fire, but there's no fire inside him.

- Luffy could only damage Magellan thanks to Mr.3's ability and once Magellan got serious and used his strongest venom Luffy couldn't touch him anymore. Sanji can't do anything with only fire and speed. He's hard-countered by Magellan.

If Sanji could kick Magellan of course he would destroy him, but Magellan is strong because he cannot be kicked that easily thanks to his overpowered DF.


You're using a non-canon anime-only feat from pre-Timeskip as proof. I already addressed this in my previous post.

This point is not valid, and Usopp never saved Zoro in the manga, nor did Zoro ever use another person's swords in the manga.


Zoro counters Magellan and Magellan counters Sanji. Fights in One Piece sometimes are like rock, paper, scissor. In this example, Sanji is scissor and Magellan is rock, and I have already explained that. I'm not downplaying Magellan, I have actually hyped him up many times in the Power Level thread because I think he's a beast, but Zoro is a bad opponent for him and you'd see that if you stopped using anime-only feats from pre-TS to downplay him.

You can't make up feats for the RS until the RS actually shows said feats. So far, there's nothing to suggest it would protect Sanji from magellan's poison, especially not since it doesn't cover his face.


I don't remember Sanji's long-range attack. Show me the panel. If he can really attack hard from afar I could reconsider Sanji vs Magellan.

Apoo has nothing to do with this so I won't address that. I'll only say that yes, Sanji may be more suited for opponents that Zoro isn't that suited for (although I can't think of any right now, there could be), but Magellan is not the case. Magellan is not tricky. Magellan is a big, slow target with a huge, lethal, venom armor. It's not something that Zoro has to think hard for a strategy to deal with him. He just has to cut from afar.

Pretty sure when your liting yourself on fire it go inside too, not just outside, but even then fire outside is enough to keep poison at bay from getting inside due to heat up could destroy substance of it and Haki to help with that.

Nah, Luffy even hurt him without that prior and Magellen actually felt to his knees from pain of it. If that was hard enough to hurt him, your illogical to say he won't feel pain from Sanji who is stronger than pre-timeskip Luffy at this point. Fire and speed are enough and he hard counters Magellen while Zoro gets hard counter. Nothing supports Zoro to survive in long term unlike Sanji overall. Magellen never shown his poison will survive with fire nor how he can handle Haki added to that. It going to be more harmful to him overall.

Whether Canon or Non-Cannon Oda would have said a better way Zoro could defeat him, but instead Usopp save him. Never seen an retraction on Oda on that situation, so again it still shows especially enemy like Magellen won't go down from far away slices just same everyone say same thing about Apoo and look what happen in their fight which needed Zoro to team up even try to have a chance with tricky enemy with help.

Nah, Zoro is the scissors (Fitting since he use weapons) and Magellen is the rock, Zoro loses while Sanji in this situation is paper and defeats him given all his abilities he has more than trying to harm someone while Zoro is more in dangerous situation overall especially if poison spreads around in the ground and he can't fly while Sanji can. I believe when I see it on that case as never seen you say much about him. Nah Zoro is bad matchup on his end and Zoro get defeated in long run. That just how it is.

Not so much make up feats, but same group who can make Reiju into an poison RJ, do know how to make sure siblings power won't be effective to another as make RSes unique, but won't affect the other. Sanji with RS takes this more given what abilities it has than attack power which is still his own and still won't stop Magellen taking pain regardless.

I think the name was Diamble Jamble: Poele a Firie: Spectre which give him launching fire at the enemies and doesn't need to be close combat for that on what he did to New Fishman fodders. It's not hard on sending fire onto something and don't see how poison can seep into heated flames and survive to hurt Sanji. Just doesn't make sense at all.

 

[Nie Li]

Nah, Luffy even hurt him without that prior and Magellen actually felt to his knees from pain of it. If that was hard enough to hurt him, your illogical to say he won't feel pain from Sanji who is stronger than pre-timeskip Luffy at this point. Fire and speed are enough and he hard counters Magellen while Zoro gets hard counter. Nothing supports Zoro to survive in long term unlike Sanji overall. Magellen never shown his poison will survive with fire nor how he can handle Haki added to that. It going to be more harmful to him overall.

This is not what I said. I said Sanji can hurt Magellan. But I also said Sanji would die if he kicks Magellan. He can go for a double-KO at most.

Zoro doesn't need to survive in long term. He wins this short term.

Whether Canon or Non-Cannon Oda would have said a better way Zoro could defeat him, but instead Usopp save him. Never seen an retraction on Oda on that situation, so again it still shows especially enemy like Magellen won't go down from far away slices just same everyone say same thing about Apoo and look what happen in their fight which needed Zoro to team up even try to have a chance with tricky enemy with help.

Oda doesn't need to retract something that was never canon to begin with. Again: use only canon examples.

Apoo is a very different kind of opponent than Magellan and has nothing to do with this discussion.

Nah, Zoro is the scissors (Fitting since he use weapons) and Magellen is the rock, Zoro loses while Sanji in this situation is paper and defeats him given all his abilities he has more than trying to harm someone while Zoro is more in dangerous situation overall especially if poison spreads around in the ground and he can't fly while Sanji can. I believe when I see it on that case as never seen you say much about him. Nah Zoro is bad matchup on his end and Zoro get defeated in long run. That just how it is.

Well yes, I agree, Zoro is the scissors and Sanji is the paper.

Magellan's venom doesn't "spread through the floor", it becomes a giant demon so the sky is not safe. It doesn't matter either way: Sanji needs to get close, so he gets countered and murdered.

Zoro attacks long-range, so he has a better chance.

What is hard to understand about it?

Not so much make up feats, but same group who can make Reiju into an poison RJ, do know how to make sure siblings power won't be effective to another as make RSes unique, but won't affect the other. Sanji with RS takes this more given what abilities it has than attack power which is still his own and still won't stop Magellen taking pain regardless.

I've already addressed this: Reiju has not shown poison that is remotely as strong as Magellan's. So there's nothing to suggest Sanji's RS can survive it. Also: it doesn't offer protection for his head.

I think the name was Diamble Jamble: Poele a Firie: Spectre which give him launching fire at the enemies and doesn't need to be close combat for that on what he did to New Fishman fodders. It's not hard on sending fire onto something and don't see how poison can seep into heated flames and survive to hurt Sanji. Just doesn't make sense at all.

I've looked it up. The attack is only long-range in the anime. In the manga it's just a series of fast diable jambe kicks.

So yeah: Sanji is still melee-only and he gets hard countered by Magellan.

If you want to argue further, please do so without:
- Using non-canon feats to downplay Zoro.
- Using non-canon feats to hype Sanji.
- Making up RS feats.


You probably didn't know that Sanji long-range thing was anime-only, but it is, so it's not canon.

So with that said, you just did the three things, and I'll ignore said points if you repeat them, because they're not valid in a debate.

 

[King Moe]

This is not what I said. I said Sanji can hurt Magellan. But I also said Sanji would die if he kicks Magellan. He can go for a double-KO at most.

Zoro doesn't need to survive in long term. He wins this short term.


Oda doesn't need to retract something that was never canon to begin with. Again: use only canon examples.

Apoo is a very different kind of opponent than Magellan and has nothing to do with this discussion.


Well yes, I agree, Zoro is the scissors and Sanji is the paper.

Magellan's venom doesn't "spread through the floor", it becomes a giant demon so the sky is not safe. It doesn't matter either way: Sanji needs to get close, so he gets countered and murdered.

Zoro attacks long-range, so he has a better chance.

What is hard to understand about it?


I've already addressed this: Reiju has not shown poison that is remotely as strong as Magellan's. So there's nothing to suggest Sanji's RS can survive it. Also: it doesn't offer protection for his head.


I've looked it up. The attack is only long-range in the anime. In the manga it's just a series of fast diable jambe kicks.

So yeah: Sanji is still melee-only and he gets hard countered by Magellan.

If you want to argue further, please do so without:
- Using non-canon feats to downplay Zoro.
- Using non-canon feats to hype Sanji.
- Making up RS feats.


You probably didn't know that Sanji long-range thing was anime-only, but it is, so it's not canon.

So with that said, you just did the three things, and I'll ignore said points if you repeat them, because they're not valid in a debate.

Say that again, but with switching position of Sanji and Zoro. Sanji have all it has to beat him, Zoro does not as cutting it won't stop poison spreading especially around the area whether by gas, through ground, splatter around after attack and touching Zoro's skin as a result and be more harmful for him. Actually Magellen is more dangerous far away than close up, so Zoro can't remove air to prevent how poison goes. He isn't immune and he can't control the atmosphere. Sanji however is much different on fighting abilities and capabilities, it just like that. Not S vs Z, but it's logical on the situation for who have more advantage, Zoro doesn't.

He have stated parts are canon though like recently he stated and agree on adding more content to future episode on something from what I seen on Twitter. He is involve in Anime more than you think and probably does look around to give the go on. If it was bad to his taste he can say no to them, not force on the situation. Also again argument was say Zoro can cut him from far, but look what happen? Apoo is not one-shot guy and neither is Magellen your really disrespecting him if you think Zoro can stop poison with just cutting when that is false. Fire kills poison more times than cutting it, just real life facts.

Yep, but usually Sanji is rock while Zoro is scissors though and beat him more times than not .

Nah, Sanji be fine and fire can protects him along with RS if added too. Zoro is human and if it touches even his blades and spread, he is defeated, nothing to help him in fighting long unlike Sanji who can heat up and prevent it doing much or little to nothing at all.

Not saying Reiju's power is above Magellen (Well depends they could defeat YV enemies, so maybe), but that they would counter RS not being easily destroyed by acid or poison, so nah it won't be Magellen in effective him especially adding fire nature to help with suit already capabilities. Nothing you suggest meaning it doesn't have the means more than my points to be honest.

His is like living inferno of fire, the poison won't touch him without being melted or burn away and your only one bring irrelevant talks to say somehow Zoro is immune on getting hit once by Magellen yet Sanji will get hit more despite being fire coming out him to be defensive over that. Again I respect how you feel about Zoro, but you got stop thinking he is capable when he isn't. Like Apoo, tricky users are never his advantage, but disadvantage as Magellen's power are diverse and tricky than you know.

 

[Nie Li]

Actually Magellen is more dangerous far away than close up

Whaaaaaaaat?!

Of course Magellan is more dangerous up close!

Let's keep these topics separate. Zoro vs Magellan and Sanji vs Magellan.

I have already gone on about why Zoro has a good chance of winning against him and I have also gone on about why Sanji does not.

Your most solid point is that "Sanji can burst into flames", but as you yourself said it, Magellan's poison is also gas. Sanji breathes even when he uses his flames, so he definitely breathes: so there your only point gets countered. Sanji gets poisoned and dies.

He have stated parts are canon though like recently he stated and agree on adding more content to future episode on something from what I seen on Twitter. He is involve in Anime more than you think and probably does look around to give the go on. If it was bad to his taste he can say no to them, not force on the situation. Also again argument was say Zoro can cut him from far, but look what happen? Apoo is not one-shot guy and neither is Magellen your really disrespecting him if you think Zoro can stop poison with just cutting when that is false. Fire kills poison more times than cutting it, just real life facts.

There are plenty of bad fillers and even non-canon weakling "admirals", so no: anime is non canon, it never is, and it's not written by Oda. Period.

Even if you want to argue that Oda supposedly said he will be more involved in it, this doesn't apply to something that happened 10 years ago. Yes, it's been that long.

Again, Apoo has nothing to do with Magellan as an opponent, so you're going offtopic with him.

Not saying Reiju's power is above Magellen (Well depends they could defeat YV enemies, so maybe), but that they would counter RS not being easily destroyed by acid or poison, so nah it won't be Magellen in effective him especially adding fire nature to help with suit already capabilities. Nothing you suggest meaning it doesn't have the means more than my points to be honest.

Reiju is probably stronger than Magellan, but her poison is not even close to Magellan's.

There is no proof that the RS can protect from Magellan's strongest poison, and since the RS doesn't protect the face, the whole discussion on the RS is pointless: Sanji would get poisoned through his face.

Again I respect how you feel about Zoro, but you got stop thinking he is capable when he isn't.

Your only points against Zoro vs Magellan were, again, unrelated comments about Apoo and something that is not canon (and that, even as non-canon thing, was pre-TS).

So yeah, since you have nothing to actually support that Zoro cannot defeat Magellan, that topic is finished.

Now, about Sanji vs Magellan, your points about fire and about the RS have been countered and he still doesn't have any long-range technique to hit Magellan with, so I'm ending that topic as well unless you have something new to say: Sanji gets hard countered. No matter how much you like him, he can't defeat everyone.

 

[King Moe]

Whaaaaaaaat?!

Of course Magellan is more dangerous up close!

Let's keep these topics separate. Zoro vs Magellan and Sanji vs Magellan.

I have already gone on about why Zoro has a good chance of winning against him and I have also gone on about why Sanji does not.

Your most solid point is that "Sanji can burst into flames", but as you yourself said it, Magellan's poison is also gas. Sanji breathes even when he uses his flames, so he definitely breathes: so there your only point gets countered. Sanji gets poisoned and dies.


There are plenty of bad fillers and even non-canon weakling "admirals", so no: anime is non canon, it never is, and it's not written by Oda. Period.

Even if you want to argue that Oda supposedly said he will be more involved in it, this doesn't apply to something that happened 10 years ago. Yes, it's been that long.

Again, Apoo has nothing to do with Magellan as an opponent, so you're going offtopic with him.


Reiju is probably stronger than Magellan, but her poison is not even close to Magellan's.

There is no proof that the RS can protect from Magellan's strongest poison, and since the RS doesn't protect the face, the whole discussion on the RS is pointless: Sanji would get poisoned through his face.


Your only points against Zoro vs Magellan were, again, unrelated comments about Apoo and something that is not canon (and that, even as non-canon thing, was pre-TS).

So yeah, since you have nothing to actually support that Zoro cannot defeat Magellan, that topic is finished.

Now, about Sanji vs Magellan, your points about fire and about the RS have been countered and he still doesn't have any long-range technique to hit Magellan with, so I'm ending that topic as well unless you have something new to say: Sanji gets hard countered. No matter how much you like him, he can't defeat everyone.

Nah, dangerous as far away given he can attack from afar. You remember his Hydras? Hell Poison? Poison Gas? Etc.. He is deadly even afar as much as he is up close.

You have proven literally nothing on why Zoro wins. Cutting is not enough to stop a guy who already beaten swordsman like Shiryu in the past and yet he would be prepare for another swordsman like Zoro? Dude your undermining Magellen and it hurts a lot your getting biased on Zoro losing while Sanji is better in this situation. I already counter your points, but you never counter mine at all.

Actually gas is flammable so if Sanji lit it on fire, Magellen could to be hurt in chain explosion as it trace back to him in the air and gas won't get inside someone fire everywhere, not just on his legs. You missed the points so far to try to force something ridiculous,

Idk he even have statements on Anime before he have work with them then too, so can't say so on those points that they all truly non-canon or canon.

Nah he does as tricky opponent and similar situation given their long-distance advantage and same excuse 'Zoro will cut them from afar' and we saw how Apoo was to Zoro, so again that alone is not enough. Cutting is not solution to everything Zoro face and need to be more.

Actually RS does especially how it is made and Sanji even got an mask to protect breathing in the poison when not lit on fire. I can't believe your missing the mask and say he get poison, your acting a bit desperate to justify he can't do anything when opposite he has everything to harm Magellen especially more than Zoro 'cUttIng fROm fAr' talks with nothing to counter what would happen if got past that and how would Zoro block gas, block ground poison spreading, blocking splatter of drop of poison, and so on. Zoro is not superhuman from poison and will get hit harder compare to Luffy overall.

Nah, you actually said nothing on countering me and I counter you as Sanji beats Magellen cleanly with fire, speed, power, Haki, while Zoro struggling for days as 'cutting' does nothing for Magellen at all to stop him. We can agree to disagree since we not getting anywhere, but you have to respect when you got nothing to back up anything on situation. No harm in admitting your bested as it can make you better on future debates after all.

 

[Nie Li]

Nah, dangerous as far away given he can attack from afar. You remember his Hydras? Hell Poison? Poison Gas? Etc.. He is deadly even afar as much as he is up close.

You claimed that he's more dangerous afar than up close, yet it's not even "the same": Magellan is way more dangerous upclose. That is basic.

You have proven literally nothing on why Zoro wins. Cutting is not enough to stop a guy who already beaten swordsman like Shiryu in the past and yet he would be prepare for another swordsman like Zoro? Dude your undermining Magellen and it hurts a lot your getting biased on Zoro losing while Sanji is better in this situation. I already counter your points, but you never counter mine at all.

I have countered every single one of your points. And here you brought up a new point:
"Magellan has beaten sweordsman like Shiryu in the past".

Mentioning Shiryu is a point in my favor, silly. Shiryu was considered to be as strong or stronger than Magellan. A normal swordsman with no DF was considered to be as strong as him, why? Because he counters him, just like Zoro.

Thank you.

Actually gas is flammable so if Sanji lit it on fire, Magellen could to be hurt in chain explosion as it trace back to him in the air and gas won't get inside someone fire everywhere, not just on his legs. You missed the points so far to try to force something ridiculous,

Not every single gas in the world is flammable and Magellan can create different kinds of venoms. So this whole point is invalid.

Idk he even have statements on Anime before he have work with them then too, so can't say so on those points that they all truly non-canon or canon.

If they're anime-only they're not canon, period. This is the last time I'm addressing this.

Nah he does as tricky opponent and similar situation given their long-distance advantage and same excuse 'Zoro will cut them from afar' and we saw how Apoo was to Zoro, so again that alone is not enough. Cutting is not solution to everything Zoro face and need to be more.

Off-topic and unrelated.

Apoo is the opposite of Magellan. He's dangerous from afar but not so much from up close. I could go into detail, but it's offtopic.

Actually RS does especially how it is made and Sanji even got an mask to protect breathing in the poison when not lit on fire. I can't believe your missing the mask and say he get poison, your acting a bit desperate to justify he can't do anything when opposite he has everything to harm Magellen especially more than Zoro 'cUttIng fROm fAr' talks with nothing to counter what would happen if got past that and how would Zoro block gas, block ground poison spreading, blocking splatter of drop of poison, and so on. Zoro is not superhuman from poison and will get hit harder compare to Luffy overall.

Sanji putting a cloth mask over his mouth wouldn't save him from Magellan's poisons. It's not a respirator, and this is not covid.

Zoro has a chance to defeat Magellan, who has very slow movement speed and low physical defenses, before Magellan or his powers reach him.

You're asking what happens if Magellan would reach Zoro? Yes, if Magellan reaches Zoro, Magellan wins, obviously.

The thing is that Sanji can only fight Magellan with CQC, and no, haki, speed and diable jambe are not counters to Magellan's poisons. Sanji having some fire techniques wouldn't save him. He gets countered.

Nah, you actually said nothing on countering me and I counter you as Sanji beats Magellen cleanly with fire, speed, power, Haki, while Zoro struggling for days as 'cutting' does nothing for Magellen at all to stop him. We can agree to disagree since we not getting anywhere, but you have to respect when you got nothing to back up anything on situation. No harm in admitting your bested as it can make you better on future debates after all.

You only brought up two new points and none of them were good points.

You can agree to disagree if you want: you have lost the debate. You should apply to yourself those advises that you threw at me in the end. There's nothing wrong that someone who just overwhelmingly lost a discussion being condescending.

 

[King Moe]

You claimed that he's more dangerous afar than up close, yet it's not even "the same": Magellan is way more dangerous upclose. That is basic.


I have countered every single one of your points. And here you brought up a new point:
"Magellan has beaten sweordsman like Shiryu in the past".

Mentioning Shiryu is a point in my favor, silly. Shiryu was considered to be as strong or stronger than Magellan. A normal swordsman with no DF was considered to be as strong as him, why? Because he counters him, just like Zoro.

Thank you.


Not every single gas in the world is flammable and Magellan can create different kinds of venoms. So this whole point is invalid.


If they're anime-only they're not canon, period. This is the last time I'm addressing this.


Off-topic and unrelated.

Apoo is the opposite of Magellan. He's dangerous from afar but not so much from up close. I could go into detail, but it's offtopic.


Sanji putting a cloth mask over his mouth wouldn't save him from Magellan's poisons. It's not a respirator, and this is not covid.

Zoro has a chance to defeat Magellan, who has very slow movement speed and low physical defenses, before Magellan or his powers reach him.

You're asking what happens if Magellan would reach Zoro? Yes, if Magellan reaches Zoro, Magellan wins, obviously.

The thing is that Sanji can only fight Magellan with CQC, and no, haki, speed and diable jambe are not counters to Magellan's poisons. Sanji having some fire techniques wouldn't save him. He gets countered.


You only brought up two new points and none of them were good points.

You can agree to disagree if you want: you have lost the debate. You should apply to yourself those advises that you threw at me in the end. There's nothing wrong that someone who just overwhelmingly lost a discussion being condescending.

He is dangerous long distance too, but not disregarding close up, but will say a bit more on long-distance since he shown like that in fighting them more long-range than full up close.

You have countered none of my points especially you have said nothing about fire on how exactly does poison live through burning fire? Real life science says otherwise on anything surviving in fire especially a poison, but somehow your ignore the science to say poison can get through and won't be burn. Your ignoring my points, not countering them. I counter yours as you shown nothing how Zoro will get him and just spamming same talk 'cutting far' as only answer you have and nothing else.

Stronger than Magellen yet got defeated by him and lock up later. Seems like you don't have good memory what happen as Magellen have to defeat him to lock him up. Now your saying Magellen will easily be hit by Zoro because he can cut him, but you failed to acknowledge he has experience facing swordsman through Shiryu. He won't get cut no matter how much your 'illogical points' ignores canon of the series. Zoro getting a beating, he isn't like Luffy, Sanji, and Jimbei who have more on them to fair better.

True, but his is flammable kind and it be hard for him to take time to not make it flammable and still put him more disadvantage than able to touch Sanji without setting gas off, so more damage to him overall.

If you mean filler arcs, I can agree, but ones that canon-filler during canon arcs, it's hard to say they are non-cannon or canon as those as shown recently on Twitter Oda can agree on them being canon, so you can't disprove on that all are 'non-canon' as you never now.

Nah, on topic and make sense. Not trying to talk about Apoo, just using same example when Zoro deal with tricky users especially DF ones, he is more disadvantage, not advantage and this is the case. Don't ignore that over fanboyism to say 'Oh he just cut him down'. It is easier to say that, but not to get it done especially shown in that fight like that. Magellen can really do damage on Zoro in dangerous way.

It very well can as you don't know technology to state otherwise about that as RS on his is quite geared up on abilities it can provide. Sanji can take him on without or with RS and that is fact.

Come back when Magellen didn't already defeat a fast swordsman like Shiryu and he lock up. You keep ignoring that Zoro will have the edge when he is in fact one of the slower Strawhats as his attack speed can't get far if his enemy expect how he strikes. Magellen isn't a scrub, plus if he does try to hit him, he can make his body acidic to destroy the sword just to get a hit in which hurt Zoro more than Magellen when his swords get corrosive from that.

Sanji with his COO is helpful too and yes power, speed, Haki, Fire, etc. help him out more than what Zoro has. Cutting poison isn't smart, Burning Poison is better effective, not just in OP, but in real life science. He has better way to combat him than guy who got hurt and then fainted by enemies not even Magellen level like Kamazou (Nerfed) and Gyukimaro. His performance doesn't say Zoro is fast to evade for long if the fight continues and that is a fact.

Nah, I brought in good points and you didn't answer any of them at all in truthful manner. I won the debate while you lost it after you didn't answer my questions on what Zoro can do to keep him at bay which cutting is not enough to push that narrative as illogical to say Magellen can't dodge or block his slices when he already done so with those with weapons before. Again, agree to disagree, but don't try to act condescending on your side on trying to say someone lost a debate yourself. Not acting like that. I give you the points, I told you everything you wanted to hear, I ask you the same, you stated no counter at all.

Sanji defeats Magellen, Magellen defeats Zoro. Doesn't mean Zoro is weaker than Sanji (Maybe), but it's just tricky opponents are not Zoro's excel on given he isn't smart guy to stay ahead with enemies like this before. It's not what I am saying, Oda showcase it with different tricky enemies and they usually have advantage on Zoro. Hawkins, Apoo, and so on kinda push that narrative hope given his struggles and hard time understanding how to fight them with their DF.

 

[Grandmaster Woro]

If you mean filler arcs, I can agree, but ones that canon-filler during canon arcs, it's hard to say they are non-cannon or canon as those as shown recently on Twitter Oda can agree on them being canon, so you can't disprove on that all are 'non-canon' as you never now.

i mean, in that case, then magellan clearly loses against zoro here. Zoro in the latest movie was able to stall fujitora without getting any wounds. Pretty extraordinary feat. And we can count this feat here because oda approves the movie just like filler arcs

 

[King Moe]

i mean, in that case, then magellan clearly loses against zoro here. Zoro in the latest movie was able to stall fujitora without getting any wounds. Pretty extraordinary feat. And we can count this feat here because oda approves the movie just like filler arcs

Talking about canon fillers in canon arcs, not movies. In that logic, Crocodile is stronger than Zoro since after that fight, he couldn't stop Crocodile later. So if you want follow power-scaling there, your hurting Zoro more than helping him especially he needed help from Mihawk to boot.

 

[Grandmaster Woro]

Talking about canon fillers in canon arcs, not movies. In that logic, Crocodile is stronger than Zoro since after that fight, he couldn't stop Crocodile later. So if you want follow power-scaling there, your hurting Zoro more than helping him especially he needed help from Mihawk to boot.

But movies are approved by oda since he also worked on the movie. They are similar to filler stuff. And you also can't disprove that all are "non canon" as you never know.

Nope, crocodile is just running away from zoro, we know logia can be sneaky in their movement (for instance, monet), although sanji failed to stop lucci.
Zoro in movie can fight fujitora without any wounds so zoro wins easily over magellan here.

 

[King Moe]

But movies are approved by oda since he also worked on the movie. They are similar to filler stuff. And you also can't disprove that all are "non canon" as you never know.

Nope, crocodile is just running away from zoro, we know logia can be sneaky in their movement (for instance, monet), although sanji failed to stop lucci.
Zoro in movie can fight fujitora without any wounds so zoro wins easily over magellan here.

Nah, He wasn't defeated. So again your saying now Crocodile > Zoro given Zoro couldn't stop him after stating he won't 'come near their captain' and he failed. So again if your using that, you going to have to admit Crocodile beats Zoro then and stronger than Fujitora. I am talking about canon-fillers in canon arcs from the anime, not there. Magellen whoops Zoro like a dog as poison bounds him down the moment he breathes it in.

 

[Grandmaster Woro]

Nah, He wasn't defeated. So again your saying now Crocodile > Zoro given Zoro couldn't stop him after stating he won't 'come near their captain' and he failed. So again if your using that, you going to have to admit Crocodile beats Zoro then and stronger than Fujitora. I am talking about canon-fillers in canon arcs from the anime, not there. Magellen whoops Zoro like a dog as poison bounds him down the moment he breathes it in.

nope, as i said, logia can be sneaky. Crocodile can just transform sand grains and sneak from beneath the ground. But yeah sanji said he wouldn't let lucci to get near his captain and sanji failed to stop him.

Zoro who can fight fujitora easily beat magellan here, But magellan can inject poison to bypass armor so i would say magellan beats sanji here, especially since lots of sanji attacks are close range so he's prone to get in contact with the poison

 

[goldb]

Movies should not be used as reference to discussion, they're not to be considered canon. As alwasy manga or even SBS since that's straight from Oda himself. It's quite simple.

 

[Grandmaster Woro]

As alwasy manga or even SBS since that's straight from Oda himself. It's quite simple.

I know, but moe keep insisting that anime fillers to be used here too. So I applied the same logic for zoro but well we know moe doesn't accept any zoro feats.

Anyway, i see magellan beating sanji here. Once his RS got infected with the poison, then sanji would have to fight without it. And most of sanji attacks are close ranged so he is prone to get in contact with magellan's poison. Sanji loses here.