Discussion Magic Power Types

[Yakkun]

@Yakkun @Demonspeed
Watch this 2 min. video about matter and antimatter

I appreciate your enthusiasm and thrill for Tristan but I sadly don't share it to that extend so I will probably not watch this video.

I also don't think Nakaba thinks as deep into this whole matter as you do since he has to focus on the overall narrative and also give the spotlight more or less equally to three more main characters as well as all those secondary and tertiary.

That said, from an in-verse perspective science of any form is rarely referenced and even then in only very general terms. This mostly happens in incidents of physical ailments so you will at best get some medicinal references. Even then they mostly talk in generalized terms of "sickness" or something like that but never anything really scientific of specific.

This is for a reason. It for one reflects the state of the world which, at the time, didn't have a particularely detailed view on how the world worked (compared to our modern day timeline anyway) and also illustrates that this is not quite so important for Nakaba.

Like most shounen series, this too, is a lot of style over substance and things can change on a whim with fractural or very limited regard to a general continuity. If certain showings in the manga correlate with actual scientific phenomena then it is largely coincidental and doesn't exist to prove a point but rather to illustrate certain emotional tapestries; as in we are supposed to be impressed, bewildered, shocked, confused, etc.

 

[Tristan]

I appreciate your enthusiasm and thrill for Tristan but I sadly don't share it to that extend so I will probably not watch this video.

I, too, hold your appreciation in high esteem. However, I must confess my inability to discern the nexus between the act of viewing the video, which I proffered for the purpose of fostering discussion, and your characterization of it as a manifestation of personal "enthusiasm and thrill." It appears, to my mind, to be a rather strange correlation, indeed.

I also don't think Nakaba thinks as deep into this whole matter as you do since he has to focus on the overall narrative and also give the spotlight more or less equally to three more main characters as well as all those secondary and tertiary.

Yet again, I don't get this correlation between establishing a MC's power on a scientific ground and the partitioning of focus on the overall narrative and giving the spotlight to other characters! In the 7DS, Merlin's powerset was much more sophisticated and diversified than 98% of characters including the Main ones! Was that a problem for Nakaba at all? Absolutely not!
In MnY too, just when you compare for example a power that "feeds on People/Nakama's emotions and transforms them into vitality/power" with another one that is based off the Quantum collision between Matter and AntiMatter ... you'll see a huge difference! Nakaba is still focusing on the former more than the latter tbh.
Just making a certain power well-grounded and more sophisticated than another one, has nothing to do whatsoever with the issue of focus. Suffice to say that Nakaba is focusing on characters like Donny, Nasiens, Isolde and Anne while totally neglecting the rare, hybrid children of royal Giant and royal Fairy King!!

--- Double Post Merged, Oct 11, 2023, Original Post Date: Oct 11, 2023 ---

That said, from an in-verse perspective science of any form is rarely referenced and even then in only very general terms. This mostly happens in incidents of physical ailments so you will at best get some medicinal references. Even then they mostly talk in generalized terms of "sickness" or something like that but never anything really scientific of specific.

Oh, really?
Could you illuminate this matter for us, please?

Spoiler

 

[Yakkun]

I'd like to come back to this for reevaluation.

A while ago there was discussion about whether Percival is the only of the 4KotA who qualifies as hero type or whether that was specifically what his magic power was called. Things have been clarified a bit since then and we also have new feats for the other 4KotA. And I believe the other 3 also qualify for being hero types. If not yet, then probably soon or in the future.

Destroyer Type: Lancelot, Tristan, Gawain, Percival (all of them have shown to use attacks with their respective magics. Lancelot's energy attacks may have a natural source but also could be unnatural like the power of darkness. Percival's likely is spirit magic from the Life Spirit, same situation as Lancelot - it depends on the definition. Gawain uses fire or sunlight. Tristan uses the power of Darkness)
Shifter Type: Gawain ? (object transformation by creating magic orbs), (Lancelot? with his Fairy Self-transformation?)
Healer Type: Percival, Tristan
Tracker Type: Gawain (teleported either towards her weapon or towards Percival and Pellegarde so she can track objects outside her line of sight), Lancelot (heart reading)
Empath Type: (none yet)
Bewitcher Type: Lancelot ? (not shown but implied due to Fairy heritage?)
Stealth Type: (none yet)
Enchanter Type: Lancelot, Tristan, Gawain, Percival (all four have shown to imbue their weapons or their bodies in their respective magic powers)
Oracle Type: (none yet)

So here's the Tally if all of these were to pass without objection:

Lancelot: 5
Tristan: 3
Gawain: 4
Percival: 3

Some of these are clearly open to debate and vague or a matter of definition, I guess. Does anyone else have thoughts on this?

 

[Demonspeed]

That's not how I see it. A Magic has to be able to do all these things at once for it count. So, even if Lancelot can transform and read minds, it's not enough for it to count as Hero type magic because it doesn't stem from the same ability.

I am disregarding Tristan because of what I said about Ark earlier. Ark by itself could count as Hero type Magic but it's supposed to be rare so it doesn't make sense. We also don't know what Nova does. But with Ark he has shown Destruction, Healing and Enchant, maybe Alteration I am not sure. Other Goddesses have shown this and more, even Mental with Cheat Hope.

Percival has shown 5 types with Hope: Destruction, Shifter, Healer, Enchant against Pellegarde alone and Tracker when they found the CoED.

Enchant is a bit weird. Most Magics can be boosted via weapons, but certain Magics only work via a medium. Like Full Counter and Shining Road.

Lancelot can read minds(Tracker), transform(Shifter) but it doesn't stem for Hazy Moon. The latter allows him to use Shining Road(which he can't use without a tool so it's definitely Enchant), change the shape of his energy at will and he can also absorb energy. So from what we have seen I'd say Hazy Moon only fits 3(Shifter, Enchant and Destruction).

Dawn is Destruction and Alteration, also Enchant so three. But with spells(another weird element in this system) she probably can use more.

 

[Yakkun]

That's not how I see it. A Magic has to be able to do all these things at once for it count. So, even if Lancelot can transform and read minds, it's not enough for it to count as Hero type magic because it doesn't stem from the same ability.

I am disregarding Tristan because of what I said about Ark earlier. Ark by itself could count as Hero type Magic but it's supposed to be rare so it doesn't make sense. We also don't know what Nova does. But with Ark he has shown Destruction, Healing and Enchant, maybe Alteration I am not sure. Other Goddesses have shown this and more, even Mental with Cheat Hope.

Percival has shown 5 types with Hope: Destruction, Shifter, Healer, Enchant against Pellegarde alone and Tracker when they found the CoED.

Enchant is a bit weird. Most Magics can be boosted via weapons, but certain Magics only work via a medium. Like Full Counter and Shining Road.

Lancelot can read minds(Tracker), transform(Shifter) but it doesn't stem for Hazy Moon. The latter allows him to use Shining Road(which he can't use without a tool so it's definitely Enchant), change the shape of his energy at will and he can also absorb energy. So from what we have seen I'd say Hazy Moon only fits 3(Shifter, Enchant and Destruction).

Dawn is Destruction and Alteration, also Enchant so three. But with spells(another weird element in this system) she probably can use more.

I guess it comes down to how you define magic powers in general. If you keep everything strictly separate, you are probably right. I see a magic power just as an extension of the person. If it originates from the body and not from an outside tool, like a magic wand or something like that, imo it counts. Magic powers can both be inherited, originated and learned, the distinction doesn't really matter much since all these three are still part of the body of the user. Otherwise you would always have to differentiate Tristan's magic into Goddess magic, Demon magic and the mix of both, Nova. That feels overly complicated since all three aspects are a part of him.

I forgot about Percival's tracker but where and when has he used Shifter?

Full Counter does not even necessarily need a medium since it's sub ability "Counter Vanish" can be performed with bare hands.

 

[Demonspeed]

I forgot about Percival's tracker but where and when has he used Shifter?

Full Counter does not even necessarily need a medium since it's sub ability "Counter Vanish" can be performed with bare hands.

That's what he uses to turn his Magic into golems, blades, shields etc.

True, Revenge Counter and Counter Vanish don't need a medium.

 

[Yakkun]

That's what he uses to turn his Magic into golems, blades, shields etc.

True, Revenge Counter and Counter Vanish don't need a medium.

No, Shifter refers to the physical alteration of objects. Not just giving his golems a different shape. They are not an object. They also do not alter any physical properties of Percival himself such as changing his body's form.

 

[Demonspeed]

No, Shifter refers to the physical alteration of objects. Not just giving his golems a different shape. They are not an object. They also do not alter any physical properties of Percival himself such as changing his body's form.

That was in the description, but Pellegarde's fight says otherwise, changing the shape of magic also counts. Water isn't an object, but it was mentioned that turning water into ice counts.

Spoiler

It's pretty similar to Transmuation in HxH. Changing shape or the properties of Aura or something.

He realized that Percival's Magic fit the Hero type because he used Destruction, Enchant, Shifting and Healing during their fight:

Spoiler

Which is why what Lancelot was doing while training Percival confirmed that Hazy Moon is Shifter type.

 

[Tristan]

The nature of the 4KoA's magic:
1- Percival: the Power of Death / Life Force
2- Gawain: Sun Heat / Magical Spells
3- Tristan: the Power of Destruction (Hakai) / ... (Restoration or recreation??)
4- Lancelot: Fairies' magical abilities / Energy Manipulation (Senjutsu??)