Alright let me give you an idea since you want it so bad. How much did they improve huh, alright.
Ajeel's battle:
- Got taken out by Erza who didn't train, she just sat on her throne, communicated with Jellal about dark guilds, and commanded Gray what to do. Erza has shown nothing.
- Jupiter Cannon assisted
Mard Geer's battle:
- Fended off Celestial Spirit King
- Fought combined assault of twin dragon slayers Sting and Rogue
- Fought Ice Devil Slaying Gray (super effective) and point blank Lightning Flame Dragon Force Natsu Dragneel
CSK, IDeS Gray, LFDF Natsu, Sting, and Rogue is MORE THAN ENOUGH to kill an Erza and a lousy rusty cannon.
Already, Mard Geer is leagues above Ajeel. Add in that Ajeel was weaker 1 year before, then Mard wins easy diff.
I was being nice since @natsulucy didn't include restrictions, but now, I'm gonna end this right now.
Tartaros Mard Geer uses Memento Mori on Current Alvarez Ajeel and erases him from existence. Mard Geer wins one shot.
While I mostly agree with your analysis, I'll correct three things: Memento Mori is technically featless, Mard fought DF Natsu and LFD Natsu, not LFD DF Natsu, and finally, this is Tartaros Mard Geer vs Alvarez Ajeel, since any other match-up would be speculation.
@XXEliteXXAceXX I'll ask you another question. Since you believe that "defeating" Ajeel proves that Erza has gotten this strong, do you think that Erza can defeat Etherious Mard?
You guys don't seem to understand that the Spriggans were weaker than they are now during the Tartaros Arc.
What you see right now is not how they were in Tartaros.
You gotta remember you are comparing a character 1 year ago with a character one year later. The power that Gray and Natsu have obtained was just a matter of 1 year, the Spriggans are the same way.
Over the course of one year, their power has increased exponentially.
God Serena is a Spriggan, I don't see why Mard Geer can't compete on those terms. Mard Geer is definitely a competition for the TWS, especially the 4 Heavenly Gods of Ishgar.
Just on the Tartarus v Alvarez Spriggan thing: (my guess)I don't really believe one year will boost them UNLESS they ascended to Spriggan level in the past year. What I am saying here is this - you don't improve unless you (1) train/learn spells, (2) Second Origin, (3) have the potential to improve.
From those points I will say that the Spriggan will still (1) train, but I see this as maintaining their power to stay at their peak. Point (2) Second origin let's just assume they've already found their second container. And point (3), which I think is most pertinent as I highlighted the bold - potential. When you push your limits as a wizard you have lived up to your potential - so your ability to improve is very very small now. Someone like August, the king of magic, how much does he improve in the last year? Someone like Gildarts is less likely to improve than Natsu (tartarus arc) quite simply because Gildarts is at or close to prime level. Can he improve? Yes. Does he have more room to improve than Natsu? No.
Of course I understand I am making 2 assumptions here to support my view: (i) The Shields were accomplished wizards before X791. (ii) To become a Spriggan level wizard one must be at the peak of their powers as being this level is pretty much the pinnacle of wizardry.
@XXEliteXXAceXXI'll ask you another question. Since you believe that "defeating" Ajeel proves that Erza has gotten this strong, do you think that Erza can defeat Etherious Mard?
This could easily be a thread for itself. Though, does Erza possess moves that are stronger than DF Natsu Phoenix blade? Would Nakagami Starlight outdo that move? Mard tanked CL Phoenix blade.
Just on the Tartarus v Alvarez Spriggan thing: (my guess)I don't really believe one year will boost them UNLESS they ascended to Spriggan level in the past year. What I am saying here is this - you don't improve unless you (1) train/learn spells, (2) Second Origin, (3) have the potential to improve.
From those points I will say that the Spriggan will still (1) train, but I see this as maintaining their power to stay at their peak. Point (2) Second origin let's just assume they've already found their second container. And point (3), which I think is most pertinent as I highlighted the bold - potential. When you push your limits as a wizard you have lived up to your potential - so your ability to improve is very very small now. Someone like August, the king of magic, how much does he improve in the last year? Someone like Gildarts is less likely to improve than Natsu (tartarus arc) quite simply because Gildarts is at or close to prime level. Can he improve? Yes. Does he have more room to improve than Natsu? No.
Of course I understand I am making 2 assumptions here to support my view: (i) The Shields were accomplished wizards before X791. (ii) To become a Spriggan level wizard one must be at the peak of their powers as being this level is pretty much the pinnacle of wizardry.
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---
This could easily be a thread for itself. Though, does Erza possess moves that are stronger than DF Natsu Phoenix blade? Would Nakagami Starlight outdo that move? Mard tanked CL Phoenix blade.
God Serena became a Spriggan in that one year. Now, while God Serena was already strong, you can see how much can change in 1 year. There is no reason for me to believe the Spriggans did not change in 1 year. As Zeref said, they were quite active.
It's true August and Gildartz may not change much, but they may have already reached their peak. Just like Acnologia. But if you look at Ajeel, he definitely had not reached his peak. Ajeel has lots to learn as we saw from his inexperienced performance in battle against Erza.
Even simple battles like that will teach Ajeel a lesson and over time, Ajeel will be far superior in battle than he is recently
Does God Serena going to Alvarez mean he only just achieved his power 1 year ago? He could have become a turncoat for any number of reasons.
Ajeel's power is probably at or very very close to it's max. He is not an inexperienced fighter, he is cocky. This is a maturity and personality issue imo.
I will like to express my views:-
i)Momento Mori is featless.Sure No Doubt about it.But it was Mard's Ultimate Curse.So it should be stronger than his all other Curses.We don't know what would have happened if this Curse was used against Non Curse User and Non Des Magic Users.
ii)Mard Geer is not weaker than Makarov.I Think He is stronger than Hades without Heart.He is on the level of GOI.It is no surprise if he is of low Spriggan Level.
iii)Only Magics which had effects on Mard Geer was Des and Natsu's DF.Natsu had beat Mard Geer but still couldn't defeat him.DF Natsu is 3X Base Natsu.So it will not be Surprise if Tartaros DF Natsu had given a good fight to Ajeel.Still Des was the only one which defeated Mard Geer.Look how sting managed to fight with Dragons in GMG but Jura being Stronger Couldn't.
So bring up actual statements, feats and canon stuff to prove that Current Erza isn't just a bit above Tartaros Erza. It might be common sense that people get stronger each year, but that is speculation and speculation isn't accepted in versus threads.
Current Erza inflicted damage on Ajeel for two reasons: First, she used hax to overcome Ajeel's intangibility and not traditional DC; Second, Ajeel's durability is below Mard's. I'll get to this point later.
I'm not interpreting them to my own liking. That's denial right there. CSK's feat calc is here. It's solid city level and Mard can be scaled to him in both DC and durability. Also, that's Mach 16, which is HS. Mard was actually faster than him during their battle and his Etherious Form increases his speed even further, which puts Mard at solid HS combat speed. Natsu's best post-timeskip feat was a mountain buster on Ikusatsunagi and I guess his speed could be scaled to Erza's, and even then he isn't way stronger than Gildarts who's also a mountain buster (feats on Bluenote IIRC) and around HS combat speed (though I'm not sure). That's not way above, that's barely above from my point of view. Besides, saying that Natsu would probably have a "high diff battle against Ajeel" is mere speculation.
If you've already seen his feats, then you should know that he doesn't have any attack above Town level and that anything below that doesn't even scratch Mard (whose durability is City level via scaling with CSK).
Again, Ajeel didn't tank either of those. He was defeated by them, so neither the Jupiter shot (which should be accounted to his defense since he defended against the first shot) nor Nakagami Starlight (which should be a MCB+ buster due to defeating Minerva; indicating more either brings up calcs or is mere speculation) should be included within his durability feats. Furthermore, Mard is scaled with a character whose DC feats stomp Jupiter's DC, so nothing impressive on either Ajeel's durability or physical strength.
Time doesn't matter in this match-up since we have two characters who were each present in only one timeskip and they have their own feats, so we can compare them fairly. Even though Ajeel is facing stronger characters (except for CSK and DF Natsu), his feats aren't as good as Mard's, and even through accurate scaling, this won't go anywhere (he can only be scaled to Erza). I made that comparision to explain why time doesn't matter, as Zero is slightly above current Erza despite being from 8 years before the current timeline.
Erza didn't defeat Ajeel. In fact, once he got serious, it was a low diff battle. Natsu's feats can't be scaled to Erza since he's far ahead of her at the moment.
Maybe hype hints that Ajeel is stronger, but feats don't hint anything and I've already proved why.
Why am I not underrating the timeskip? Because I'm using canon feats to back up my points that not all characters have gotten this much stronger. Erza went from defeating a demon with Town level durability (Kyouka tanked Erza's Cube piercing feat, which is small town level) to damaging one of the Spriggan 12 who has MCB durability via hax. Tell me how this is an improvement? You might want to hype Ajeel and say that because he's much stronger than Kyouka (which he is), he needs to have advantage in all stats, but he clearly doesn't have advantage in durability.
I can perfectly accept someone who says that Ajeel wins this extreme diff, but mid diff? That's just crazy, since I've already proved why this will go down as a stamina battle in my first post. This is my veredict: Intangibility off goes to Mard mid diff; Intangibility on goes to Mard extreme diff or it ends up as a draw.
Lol... If you actually read my previous posts, you can see that Erza getting stronger is not speculation. It is indeed a fact, if you still don't get it, then just believe whatever you want. The problem with your statements is that everything that goes against your idea is referred to as 'hax' and anything else you find that you think supports your idea, you treat it as if it is a fact.
I have a problem with the majority of your posts because you use the same words like 'durability' and 'DC'. Exactly how do you know who has more? You act like you know the quantitative values for the stats of each character. Yes, some are obvious but your examples lack the evidence.
Okay, tell me, exactly what is City Level and Town Level? Your vocabulary doesn't make sense. What is HS? I also looked at the calculations of CSK's feats. Where and how did you even find this? Tell me if you think this even makes sense and whether it can be classified as true evidence or not because it seems inaccurate to me. There is no real basis or proof of the dimensional analysis they used and they didn't show us the original calculations so this is invalid. I don't deny that those guys are probably smarter than me but the trigonometry they used doesn't even seem reliable. Exactly how many meters is one pixel anyways? How did taco measure the length of the cube to be 2000+ meters??? Did Hiro Mashima give him those numbers or even approved of its validity? If you can find me the link, please post it because this is nonsense. Additionally, they clearly said they assumed CSK's dash was less than one pixel. Another random piece of important information that is not clear in calculating speed. Sure, Mach 16 is fast but you're basing it off of lousy calculations online with no proof unless you find it for me because I'm not going to waste my time searching for it. Lastly, keep in mind that real life applications is not accurate to things depicted in mangas.
Again, I don't know your vocabulary but Ajeel does not have anything above 'Town level'? So far, we've seen 2 impressive attacks which are Sands of Death and Sand World. He also has numerous of other powerful magic like Sand Golem in which it seemed Gray and Lucy's power had no effect on. Meanwhile, Mard Geer's thorns are useless because even Tartaros Gray froze and destroyed them. The only thing you can count on is Momento Mori which may well not even be able to hit Ajeel. Fine, if you say that CSK stomps the Jupiter Cannon, then Erza stomps Tartaros CSK. Once again, Mard Geer and CSK is not an obvious comparison.
Wait, Zero is slightly above Current Erza??? Can you elaborate because I hope what I am thinking is not what you're trying to say or we'll even have a tough time completing the discussion on that topic alone.
I never said Erza was even close to beating Ajeel. In fact, I agree she outright lost which strengthens my point on the power of Ajeel. Natsu's feats can be compared to Erza depending on what form he is in as I discussed before because he has a wide range of power. At this point, I still fail to see how Ajeel loses in feats. He seems to significantly win in feats and hype.
Either way, comparing Mard Geer and CSK tells us nothing of the comparison with Ajeel. Ajeel is definitely stronger than Kyōka in feats because Kyōka won't even be able to hit him. Erza defeated Kyōka, yet Erza couldn't even damage Ajeel until she used her arguably strongest attack with help from others AND this was also 1 year later.
Ajeel defeating Mard Geer with Medium Difficulty is my opinion. Reason? Well, this is how I see it.
Medium Difficulty = Noticable Difference in Power [One-Sided]
High Difficulty = Less Noticable Difference in Power [Still One-Sided but much more Difficult to Pull a Victory]
Extreme Difficulty = Pretty Much Can Go Either Way [Basically a Tie]
Alright let me give you an idea since you want it so bad. How much did they improve huh, alright.
Ajeel's battle:
- Got taken out by Erza who didn't train, she just sat on her throne, communicated with Jellal about dark guilds, and commanded Gray what to do. Erza has shown nothing.
- Jupiter Cannon assisted
Mard Geer's battle:
- Fended off Celestial Spirit King
- Fought combined assault of twin dragon slayers Sting and Rogue
- Fought Ice Devil Slaying Gray (super effective) and point blank Lightning Flame Dragon Force Natsu Dragneel
CSK, IDeS Gray, LFDF Natsu, Sting, and Rogue is MORE THAN ENOUGH to kill an Erza and a lousy rusty cannon.
Already, Mard Geer is leagues above Ajeel. Add in that Ajeel was weaker 1 year before, then Mard wins easy diff.
I was being nice since @natsulucy didn't include restrictions, but now, I'm gonna end this right now.
Tartaros Mard Geer uses Memento Mori on Current Alvarez Ajeel and erases him from existence. Mard Geer wins one shot.
Fending off doesn't really count. The twin dragon slayers didn't do much and are pretty weak. Yes, I agree that Mard Geer is on the same level as TARTAROS Natsu and Gray which brings me to my next point.
Jupiter Cannon could obliterate Sting and Rogue and injure Gray + Natsu. Alvarez Erza would easily flick them away and her Nakagami Starlight would kill if not almost kill CSK instead of 'fending him off'. Now compare this to Ajeel and Mard Geer. Mard Geer died. Ajeel survived. So, no, Ajeel is still above Mard Geer.
We don't have proof that Momento Mori would even affect Ajeel let alone kill him. This is the problem with unfairly comparing two characters from different timeskips as I've stated before.
@XXEliteXXAceXX I'll ask you another question. Since you believe that "defeating" Ajeel proves that Erza has gotten this strong, do you think that Erza can defeat Etherious Mard?
Tartaros Erza? No. Alvarez Erza? Definitely. In fact, Nakagami Starlight one-shots him. If not, she will need one more additional attack. This is pointless because like I said, I can't exactly compare Alvarez with Tartaros because it never happened so my opinion and your opinion is just the way we perceive their powers in both timeskips.
You're all overrating the timeskip too much. Most Fairy Tail members are currently essentially the same they were back in Tartaros, and that includes Gray, Wendy, Gajeel, Makarov, etc. Current Erza is only slightly stronger than Tartaros Erza if we go by feats, so that only puts Ajeel on a higher level than Kyouka, who was much weaker than Mard despite being the 3rd strongest 9DG. Wendy did indeed defeat Ezel while in DF, but Ezel was below Bluenote anyways, and if IIRC, DF was not activated when she fought with Bluenote.
Actually, I think you're severely underestimating how much these guys grew. See Makarov disbanded the guild because he felt they would be helpless against the spriggan (and this was a year ago). Let's not forget that he took this action after the Tartarus demons had been defeated. If anything, their victory should have reinstated his belief in their strength but it was the opposite. When Ajeel tracked and attacked them while they were in Alvarez, Makarov explicitly warned them not to fight because this opponent was on a completely different level. See there's only one other time he did this, and that was against Acnologia. Understandably, he tried to sacrifice himself because he knew there was no chance of victory. Every other time, he believed in the guild. Not with Alvarez though. When he saw them briefly repel Ajeel, he expressed shock at how much they'd grown and this is canon. How can you say they haven't changed? Gray for example showed the same wide scale freezing (silver) which was reminiscent of what silver himself did. Look at the ease with which they dispatched the avatar enemies. It wasn't because those guys were weak or pushovers, it's because FT had become a lot more powerful.
Gauging Erza is always difficult because she doesn't exactly use wide AoE attacks or ones easily discernible in size but she's obviously grown a lot stronger. The main FT guild members are just a little higher than pre Ts, they're a lot. If they faced Tartarus demons again, the battle won't even be nearly as close as it was.
For Mard Geer and Ajeel, Ajeel uses attacks that are town wide. In sand world, visibility is literally zero. Mard Geer wouldn't even be able to see him. Ajeel's body is basically sand and most attacks can go through him without doing damage. His hand to hand skills are competent enough to outclass Erza in battle. Mard Geer is outclassed in pretty much every way. We even have a spriggan (wahl) refer to an Etherious (sayla) as a toy. Don't forget that even Gray could keep up with EMG for sometime and Erza would have clear superiority in close combat as compared to gray, much less pre Ts gray. Ajeel showed superiority over Erza in that regard so keeping up with EMG is nothing. Ajeel has enough large scale and wide attacks to handle MG.
Memento mori could be troublesome indeed but it doesn't matter when Ajeel can negate visibility and effectively hide himself. Heck he even emerged unfazed from Gray's ice attacks even after getting frozen solid. This isn't even close. MG is a capable opponent so he obviously would get defeated that easily but the outcome would never be in doubt. It's ajeel's win.
You make some very good points but I think it is very unfair to just say Gray could keep up with EMG when you're talking about how well Mard moves.
- Firstly Mard was able to take on Rogue, Sting and Natsu with an END book in his hand and evade/block a lot of attacks. Sure he took some hits, I think a couple from memory (all did negligible damage). This is a great display of agility.
- Gray couldn't hit EMG with his devil slaying attacks, he said this to Natsu. What was required was a diversion or assist, and Natsu provided this.
- EMG blitzed Gray + Natsu when it came down to speed.
- Only time EMG is blitzed is when Natsu uses DF. There is zero shame in this, Jellal using meteor was blitzed too.
I don't doubt that you know all I said above, but those feats are not accurately depicted when you say Gray kept up with EMG. This post is NOT at all attempting to say Erza can't keep up with Mard.
I give Erza the edge in offense. Momento Mori seems bigger than anything Erza has but it's featless. Erza can deal more damage is what I am saying here. I give EMG the edge in speed/agility. Durability goes to Mard from tanking CL Phoenix blade. Endurance is a toss up, Erza is high up there in this regard she can not only take damage and fight through it but she also fights hard using a lot of MP. I say it's a toss up because Mard ran an epic gauntlet of opponents and not once did he seem tired.
Tartaros Erza? No. Alvarez Erza? Definitely. In fact, Nakagami Starlight one-shots him. If not, she will need one more additional attack. This is pointless because like I said, I can't exactly compare Alvarez with Tartaros because it never happened so my opinion and your opinion is just the way we perceive their powers in both timeskips.
You're entitled to that opinion, but I would like to ask is Nakagami Starlight that much more stronger than Crimson Lotus Phoenix Blade? Keep in mind EF Mard Geer tanked this attack, probably took medium damage (I can't tell because Mard's EF makes it hard to see).
Lol... If you actually read my previous posts, you can see that Erza getting stronger is not speculation. It is indeed a fact, if you still don't get it, then just believe whatever you want. The problem with your statements is that everything that goes against your idea is referred to as 'hax' and anything else you find that you think supports your idea, you treat it as if it is a fact.
It is speculation, because she doesn't have any new feats that put her on a better level. She got new armors and she expanded her arsenal, but this doesn't mean she got necessarily stronger, since these armors are used according to different scenarios. Hax is something deemed unfair or unexpectedly unfavorable. Erza vs Ajeel was clearly Erza using her armors to her favor, and not really a demonstration of power as Erza's hax is not applicable on powerscaling threads and her hax doesn't work on everyone, except for Nakagami Armor.
I have a problem with the majority of your posts because you use the same words like 'durability' and 'DC'. Exactly how do you know who has more? You act like you know the quantitative values for the stats of each character. Yes, some are obvious but your examples lack the evidence.
Durability is the ability to tank an attack. DC is destructive capacity or, simply put, attack potency. DC can be obtained when characters destroy things (buildings, mountains, towns, etc), with calcs (energy levels), which are sometimes unreliable, or via scaling. Durability is obtained when characters tank attacks with a certain amount of DC or via scaling (either with their physical feats or with other characters).
Okay, tell me, exactly what is City Level and Town Level? Your vocabulary doesn't make sense. What is HS? I also looked at the calculations of CSK's feats. Where and how did you even find this? Tell me if you think this even makes sense and whether it can be classified as true evidence or not because it seems inaccurate to me. There is no real basis or proof of the dimensional analysis they used and they didn't show us the original calculations so this is invalid. I don't deny that those guys are probably smarter than me but the trigonometry they used doesn't even seem reliable. Exactly how many meters is one pixel anyways? How did taco measure the length of the cube to be 2000+ meters??? Did Hiro Mashima give him those numbers or even approved of its validity? If you can find me the link, please post it because this is nonsense. Additionally, they clearly said they assumed CSK's dash was less than one pixel. Another random piece of important information that is not clear in calculating speed. Sure, Mach 16 is fast but you're basing it off of lousy calculations online with no proof unless you find it for me because I'm not going to waste my time searching for it. Lastly, keep in mind that real life applications is not accurate to things depicted in mangas.
Town level is applied to attacks with enough energy to destroy towns and they use Kilotons as units IIRC. Same applies for City level and they use Megatons as units here. HS is hypersonic and it applies for all speed levels between Mach 5 and Mach 100. These are basic powerscaling notions. The calcs are not mine, they're on Naruto Forums. This is not real evidence nor is this accurate because it's calc stacking, but it gives us an idea of CSK's attack potency, even because it's solid City level. For the speed issue, CSK moved several miles in just a couple of seconds, that's already HS. Real life applications aren't 100% accurate, but they can be applies and downplaying the calc doesn't make the attack less of a City buster, as it destroyed Plutogrim.
Again, I don't know your vocabulary but Ajeel does not have anything above 'Town level'? So far, we've seen 2 impressive attacks which are Sands of Death and Sand World. He also has numerous of other powerful magic like Sand Golem in which it seemed Gray and Lucy's power had no effect on. Meanwhile, Mard Geer's thorns are useless because even Tartaros Gray froze and destroyed them. The only thing you can count on is Momento Mori which may well not even be able to hit Ajeel. Fine, if you say that CSK stomps the Jupiter Cannon, then Erza stomps Tartaros CSK. Once again, Mard Geer and CSK is not an obvious comparison.
Sands of Death was dispersed by a Small Town busting lightning bolt by Laxus. I'm giving Ajeel the benefit of doubt when I say Town level. Sand World is not an offensive technique, so that doesn't apply. It's a city-ranged technique which enhances speed and intangibility. How did Gray's magic not have any effect on Sand Golem? It froze the golem, so I don't see your point.
I agree on this point, but I don't see how an attack like Yggdrasil isn't stopping Sand Golem, which was frozen by a MCB buster.
I also agree that Memento Mori isn't affecting Ajeel, because it's featless, and this is why I think this wil go down as a stamina battle.
How does Erza stomp CSK? Erza tanked Jupiter, but that's also something CSK can easily do because he has City level durability. And if Mard stalemated CSK, they can be scaled with each other.
Wait, Zero is slightly above Current Erza??? Can you elaborate because I hope what I am thinking is not what you're trying to say or we'll even have a tough time completing the discussion on that topic alone.
It's exactly as you read. Zero has enough feats to still be put above Erza, as he stalemated DF Natsu, and he has Genesis Zero, which ignores up to Town level durability.
I never said Erza was even close to beating Ajeel. In fact, I agree she outright lost which strengthens my point on the power of Ajeel. Natsu's feats can be compared to Erza depending on what form he is in as I discussed before because he has a wide range of power. At this point, I still fail to see how Ajeel loses in feats. He seems to significantly win in feats and hype.
Ajeel doesn't have any city busting feats, nor can he be scaled to characters with city busting feats. It's really that simple.
And Natsu is clearly above Erza, I don't see your point,
Either way, comparing Mard Geer and CSK tells us nothing of the comparison with Ajeel. Ajeel is definitely stronger than Kyōka in feats because Kyōka won't even be able to hit him. Erza defeated Kyōka, yet Erza couldn't even damage Ajeel until she used her arguably strongest attack with help from others AND this was also 1 year later.
Comparing Mard with CSK tells us that Mard is a city buster, which puts him above Ajeel.
You're failing the point of being stronger or winning in a versus match. Silver can probably win against Mard on a battle, but he's not stronger than Mard.
Ajeel defeating Mard Geer with Medium Difficulty is my opinion. Reason? Well, this is how I see it.
Medium Difficulty = Noticable Difference in Power [One-Sided]
High Difficulty = Less Noticable Difference in Power [Still One-Sided but much more Difficult to Pull a Victory]
Extreme Difficulty = Pretty Much Can Go Either Way [Basically a Tie]
Mard is clearly above Ajeel, the point is that he might not beat him due to Sand Body.
Fending off doesn't really count. The twin dragon slayers didn't do much and are pretty weak. Yes, I agree that Mard Geer is on the same level as TARTAROS Natsu and Gray which brings me to my next point.
This wasn't even my discussion, but care to explain how Tartaros Natsu and Gray are as strong as Mard?
Jupiter Cannon could obliterate Sting and Rogue and injure Gray + Natsu. Alvarez Erza would easily flick them away and her Nakagami Starlight would kill if not almost kill CSK instead of 'fending him off'. Now compare this to Ajeel and Mard Geer. Mard Geer died. Ajeel survived. So, no, Ajeel is still above Mard Geer.
What? How can Jupiter Cannon obliterate Sting and Rogue when BoS Erza could defend against it and still defeat one of the Element 4 afterwards.
How will Nakagami Starlight almost kill CSK? Also, I don't see your point of saying that Mard died and Ajeel didn't. It's not a valid argument.
Tartaros Erza? No. Alvarez Erza? Definitely. In fact, Nakagami Starlight one-shots him. If not, she will need one more additional attack. This is pointless because like I said, I can't exactly compare Alvarez with Tartaros because it never happened so my opinion and your opinion is just the way we perceive their powers in both timeskips.
And how exactly is Tartaros Erza that different from Current Erza? How is Nakagami Starlight stronger than DF Natsu's strongest attack and how is Erza touching Mard when he's faster than both Gray and DF Natsu? And remember that she can't have a prolonged use of Nakagami Armor.
Actually, I think you're severely underestimating how much these guys grew. See Makarov disbanded the guild because he felt they would be helpless against the spriggan (and this was a year ago). Let's not forget that he took this action after the Tartarus demons had been defeated. If anything, their victory should have reinstated his belief in their strength but it was the opposite. When Ajeel tracked and attacked them while they were in Alvarez, Makarov explicitly warned them not to fight because this opponent was on a completely different level. See there's only one other time he did this, and that was against Acnologia. Understandably, he tried to sacrifice himself because he knew there was no chance of victory. Every other time, he believed in the guild. Not with Alvarez though. When he saw them briefly repel Ajeel, he expressed shock at how much they'd grown and this is canon. How can you say they haven't changed? Gray for example showed the same wide scale freezing (silver) which was reminiscent of what silver himself did. Look at the ease with which they dispatched the avatar enemies. It wasn't because those guys were weak or pushovers, it's because FT had become a lot more powerful.
Gauging Erza is always difficult because she doesn't exactly use wide AoE attacks or ones easily discernible in size but she's obviously grown a lot stronger. The main FT guild members are just a little higher than pre Ts, they're a lot. If they faced Tartarus demons again, the battle won't even be nearly as close as it was.
For Mard Geer and Ajeel, Ajeel uses attacks that are town wide. In sand world, visibility is literally zero. Mard Geer wouldn't even be able to see him. Ajeel's body is basically sand and most attacks can go through him without doing damage. His hand to hand skills are competent enough to outclass Erza in battle. Mard Geer is outclassed in pretty much every way. We even have a spriggan (wahl) refer to an Etherious (sayla) as a toy. Don't forget that even Gray could keep up with EMG for sometime and Erza would have clear superiority in close combat as compared to gray, much less pre Ts gray. Ajeel showed superiority over Erza in that regard so keeping up with EMG is nothing. Ajeel has enough large scale and wide attacks to handle MG.
Memento mori could be troublesome indeed but it doesn't matter when Ajeel can negate visibility and effectively hide himself. Heck he even emerged unfazed from Gray's ice attacks even after getting frozen solid. This isn't even close. MG is a capable opponent so he obviously would get defeated that easily but the outcome would never be in doubt. It's ajeel's win.
I agree that FT members have gotten stronger, but exactly how stronger have they gotten? Natsu is the only one we're sure of, so we can't use speculation like that in versus threads. And keep in mind that Mard was at least two times stronger than the second strongest demon, who was Kyouka. I see the weakest Spriggan 12 as opponents on Mard's level. Gray and Natsu had to give all they had to defeat Mard (demon marks and DF), but imagine now facing 12 opponents of Mard's power level. FT could never think of defeating that, but now the main difference is that both Laxus and Natsu are stronger than Mard. I don't consider Makarov's statements that important as he has to protect everyone and give them hope.
Sand World and Sand Body are the main problems, but as Ajeel doesn't have any attacks that can defeat Mard, it will go down as a stamina battle.
Mard Geer's hand to hand battle is much better than Erza's, he has better physical stats and he's faster than her. Wahl's statements aren't applied to Mard as Mard is around 3 times stronger than Sayla. Gray could keep up with base Mard Geer. Against EMG, he had to work with DF Natsu as a team to even land a hit on Mard, so this should be representative of Mard's speed.
How does Ajeel have enough large scales attack to handle MG? Until he shows us at least something on Laxus' nuke level, he isn't handling EMG that easily.
Memento Mori is featless, so it doesn't matter. Mard was only affected by Gray's attacks because they were built to affect demons, so that argument doesn't work. This will go down as a stamina battle and I've already proved why. It's extreme diff for the winner.
It is speculation, because she doesn't have any new feats that put her on a better level. She got new armors and she expanded her arsenal, but this doesn't mean she got necessarily stronger, since these armors are used according to different scenarios. Hax is something deemed unfair or unexpectedly unfavorable. Erza vs Ajeel was clearly Erza using her armors to her favor, and not really a demonstration of power as Erza's hax is not applicable on powerscaling threads and her hax doesn't work on everyone, except for Nakagami Armor.
Durability is the ability to tank an attack. DC is destructive capacity or, simply put, attack potency. DC can be obtained when characters destroy things (buildings, mountains, towns, etc), with calcs (energy levels), which are sometimes unreliable, or via scaling. Durability is obtained when characters tank attacks with a certain amount of DC or via scaling (either with their physical feats or with other characters).
Town level is applied to attacks with enough energy to destroy towns and they use Kilotons as units IIRC. Same applies for City level and they use Megatons as units here. HS is hypersonic and it applies for all speed levels between Mach 5 and Mach 100. These are basic powerscaling notions. The calcs are not mine, they're on Naruto Forums. This is not real evidence nor is this accurate because it's calc stacking, but it gives us an idea of CSK's attack potency, even because it's solid City level. For the speed issue, CSK moved several miles in just a couple of seconds, that's already HS. Real life applications aren't 100% accurate, but they can be applies and downplaying the calc doesn't make the attack less of a City buster, as it destroyed Plutogrim.
Sands of Death was dispersed by a Small Town busting lightning bolt by Laxus. I'm giving Ajeel the benefit of doubt when I say Town level. Sand World is not an offensive technique, so that doesn't apply. It's a city-ranged technique which enhances speed and intangibility. How did Gray's magic not have any effect on Sand Golem? It froze the golem, so I don't see your point.
I agree on this point, but I don't see how an attack like Yggdrasil isn't stopping Sand Golem, which was frozen by a MCB buster.
I also agree that Memento Mori isn't affecting Ajeel, because it's featless, and this is why I think this wil go down as a stamina battle.
How does Erza stomp CSK? Erza tanked Jupiter, but that's also something CSK can easily do because he has City level durability. And if Mard stalemated CSK, they can be scaled with each other.
It's exactly as you read. Zero has enough feats to still be put above Erza, as he stalemated DF Natsu, and he has Genesis Zero, which ignores up to Town level durability.
Ajeel doesn't have any city busting feats, nor can he be scaled to characters with city busting feats. It's really that simple.
And Natsu is clearly above Erza, I don't see your point,
Comparing Mard with CSK tells us that Mard is a city buster, which puts him above Ajeel.
You're failing the point of being stronger or winning in a versus match. Silver can probably win against Mard on a battle, but he's not stronger than Mard.
Mard is clearly above Ajeel, the point is that he might not beat him due to Sand Body.
This wasn't even my discussion, but care to explain how Tartaros Natsu and Gray are as strong as Mard?
What? How can Jupiter Cannon obliterate Sting and Rogue when BoS Erza could defend against it and still defeat one of the Element 4 afterwards.
How will Nakagami Starlight almost kill CSK? Also, I don't see your point of saying that Mard died and Ajeel didn't. It's not a valid argument.
And how exactly is Tartaros Erza that different from Current Erza? How is Nakagami Starlight stronger than DF Natsu's strongest attack and how is Erza touching Mard when he's faster than both Gray and DF Natsu? And remember that she can't have a prolonged use of Nakagami Armor.
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---
I agree that FT members have gotten stronger, but exactly how stronger have they gotten? Natsu is the only one we're sure of, so we can't use speculation like that in versus threads. And keep in mind that Mard was at least two times stronger than the second strongest demon, who was Kyouka. I see the weakest Spriggan 12 as opponents on Mard's level. Gray and Natsu had to give all they had to defeat Mard (demon marks and DF), but imagine now facing 12 opponents of Mard's power level. FT could never think of defeating that, but now the main difference is that both Laxus and Natsu are stronger than Mard. I don't consider Makarov's statements that important as he has to protect everyone and give them hope.
Sand World and Sand Body are the main problems, but as Ajeel doesn't have any attacks that can defeat Mard, it will go down as a stamina battle.
Mard Geer's hand to hand battle is much better than Erza's, he has better physical stats and he's faster than her. Wahl's statements aren't applied to Mard as Mard is around 3 times stronger than Sayla. Gray could keep up with base Mard Geer. Against EMG, he had to work with DF Natsu as a team to even land a hit on Mard, so this should be representative of Mard's speed.
How does Ajeel have enough large scales attack to handle MG? Until he shows us at least something on Laxus' nuke level, he isn't handling EMG that easily.
Memento Mori is featless, so it doesn't matter. Mard was only affected by Gray's attacks because they were built to affect demons, so that argument doesn't work. This will go down as a stamina battle and I've already proved why. It's extreme diff for the winner.
I Remember Naruto Forum does pretty much accurate Calculations.They base it on Scientific Methods.They calculated Acnologia's Roar in Tenrou at 80 Megatonnes and Mother Glare's Roar in GMG to be 5 Megatonne.Note The Difference.Mard Geer could only be defeated by Ice Devil Slayer Magic and Through Combined Efforts with Natsu in a tag team battle with gray.In GMG Sting managed to hit Dragons but Jura failed.It is The same thing Slayer Advantage.
You make some very good points but I think it is very unfair to just say Gray could keep up with EMG when you're talking about how well Mard moves.
- Firstly Mard was able to take on Rogue, Sting and Natsu with an END book in his hand and evade/block a lot of attacks. Sure he took some hits, I think a couple from memory (all did negligible damage). This is a great display of agility.
- Gray couldn't hit EMG with his devil slaying attacks, he said this to Natsu. What was required was a diversion or assist, and Natsu provided this.
- EMG blitzed Gray + Natsu when it came down to speed.
- Only time EMG is blitzed is when Natsu uses DF. There is zero shame in this, Jellal using meteor was blitzed too.
I don't doubt that you know all I said above, but those feats are not accurately depicted when you say Gray kept up with EMG. This post is NOT at all attempting to say Erza can't keep up with Mard.
I give Erza the edge in offense. Momento Mori seems bigger than anything Erza has but it's featless. Erza can deal more damage is what I am saying here. I give EMG the edge in speed/agility. Durability goes to Mard from tanking CL Phoenix blade. Endurance is a toss up, Erza is high up there in this regard she can not only take damage and fight through it but she also fights hard using a lot of MP. I say it's a toss up because Mard ran an epic gauntlet of opponents and not once did he seem tired.
I agree with you, my point though, was that Pre TS Gary should that he didn't have much trouble facing MG. yes he had the advantage of DS Magic but that only comes into play when the ice actually touches MG. The DS Magic doesn't slow MG down neither does it necessarily sky rocket Gray's skills and let's not forget that both Natsu and Gray had been numerous fights prior. Gray was barely visible underneath all the blood and wounds when he showed up. I'm saying that battle wise, Ajeel shouldn't have trouble fighting and keeping up with MG and when it comes to magic and range, I see Ajeel having the edge. Also in the versatility of their Magic rules. Ajeel has enough advantages going for him to negate the slight points MG could possible exceed him.
Keep in mind that this isn't Erza vs MG though. That's another thing. Frankly I'm not sure who'd emerge victorious there. My initial thoughts would go to MG on that though.
For MG taking on multiple opponents, Ajeel already did that when FT was fleeing from him in Alvarez and these were opponents that had become stronger and using pretty powerful attacks. He simply shrugged them all off. He also took numerous hits from Erza when he was vulnerable and distracted yet he didn't go down easy. All those hits would've been blocked or dodged (or majority anyway) if he hadn't been distracted. MG could possible be a better tank than Ajeel strictly speaking, but I believe Ajeel can handle attacks better provided he isn't distracted.
I agree that FT members have gotten stronger, but exactly how stronger have they gotten? Natsu is the only one we're sure of, so we can't use speculation like that in versus threads. And keep in mind that Mard was at least two times stronger than the second strongest demon, who was Kyouka. I see the weakest Spriggan 12 as opponents on Mard's level. Gray and Natsu had to give all they had to defeat Mard (demon marks and DF), but imagine now facing 12 opponents of Mard's power level. FT could never think of defeating that, but now the main difference is that both Laxus and Natsu are stronger than Mard. I don't consider Makarov's statements that important as he has to protect everyone and give them hope.
Sand World and Sand Body are the main problems, but as Ajeel doesn't have any attacks that can defeat Mard, it will go down as a stamina battle.
Mard Geer's hand to hand battle is much better than Erza's, he has better physical stats and he's faster than her. Wahl's statements aren't applied to Mard as Mard is around 3 times stronger than Sayla. Gray could keep up with base Mard Geer. Against EMG, he had to work with DF Natsu as a team to even land a hit on Mard, so this should be representative of Mard's speed.
How does Ajeel have enough large scales attack to handle MG? Until he shows us at least something on Laxus' nuke level, he isn't handling EMG that easily.
Memento Mori is featless, so it doesn't matter. Mard was only affected by Gray's attacks because they were built to affect demons, so that argument doesn't work. This will go down as a stamina battle and I've already proved why. It's extreme diff for the winner.
I think you're making a mistake by thinking that simply being a better hand to hand or CQC equals being stronger. I strongly disagree. Ajeel has enough to keep up with MG and then he has his sand body to negate damage. Assuming this was a simple fight that didn't necessarily involve magic attacks, MG would have a lot more chance at winning but there's a lot more to it. What Ajeel might not have in terms of tanking or physical competence, he makes up in his magic type and attacks. Gildarts is very possibly the greatest hand to hand fighter in FT guild but compare his battle against bluenote and Natsu's 'battle' against bluenote. Natsu could've possibly ended in the same condition or close to Gildarts after his tenrou battle but rather than go for an unlikely and possibly more difficult form of combat, he took out Bluenote with a solid attack from range. This is what Ajeel has going for him. With sand world and sand body as well as him having more than enough attacks to comfortably battle while within his sand world, he doesn't need to go Mano against MG. MG's speed counts for nothing since he wouldn't even be able to see Ajeel. In the event that he does land a hit, ajeel's sand body provides immunity. In conditions where MG can't even see while Ajeel is perfectly at home, the latter gains advantage even in basic combat where MG's greatest chance was. That's simply why Ajeel outclasses MG. As long as Ajeel takes the battle seriously and doesn't get distracted, this is a mid diff battle at best. As for attacks, he used sands of death which made Titan makarov seem like a dwarf. He has ramal attacks which have sharp cutting abilities and he can drain moisture and thus energy from his opponents by touching them. He can easily create multiply gigantic golems to aid him and though all these may not be much trouble normally, it's completely different if he uses them in sand world where the opponent has zero visibility. Even the ant lion pits can help to immobile the opponent.
I agree with you, my point though, was that Pre TS Gary should that he didn't have much trouble facing MG. yes he had the advantage of DS Magic but that only comes into play when the ice actually touches MG. The DS Magic doesn't slow MG down neither does it necessarily sky rocket Gray's skills and let's not forget that both Natsu and Gray had been numerous fights prior. Gray was barely visible underneath all the blood and wounds when he showed up. I'm saying that battle wise, Ajeel shouldn't have trouble fighting and keeping up with MG and when it comes to magic and range, I see Ajeel having the edge. Also in the versatility of their Magic rules. Ajeel has enough advantages going for him to negate the slight points MG could possible exceed him.
The main points I was making were to elaborate on Mard's movement in the context of Gray being able to keep up with him. I highly doubt EMG's speed and agility is going to put Ajeel at any type of disadvantage, even if EMG is superior in this regard. I also doubt Mard Geer can damage Ajeel without Momento Mori(featless), it's more about how long will it take for Ajeel to win this, and how much effort he has to put in.
For MG taking on multiple opponents, Ajeel already did that when FT was fleeing from him in Alvarez and these were opponents that had become stronger and using pretty powerful attacks. He simply shrugged them all off. He also took numerous hits from Erza when he was vulnerable and distracted yet he didn't go down easy. All those hits would've been blocked or dodged (or majority anyway) if he hadn't been distracted. MG could possible be a better tank than Ajeel strictly speaking, but I believe Ajeel can handle attacks better provided he isn't distracted.
Ajeel definitely took on the superior tandem, but I was mainly pointing out how Mard moved as an agility feat. Ajeel didn't use movement, likely because he didn't have to - his moves are enough to put Team Natsu on the backfoot. And also dodging attacks doesn't befit the cocky character of desert king Ajeel.
Ajeel suffered tremendously by inconvenient distractions, underestimations, and of course ego. The underestimation of Erza and her ability to hurt him cost him several injuries. He simply didn't think a sword could hurt him. To him anything solid (I presume solid objects get turned to sand by his body) is nothing to him, so a water sword was news to him. He viewed Erza as a foot soldier compared to him, probably a combo of underestimating and his ego.
You're entitled to that opinion, but I would like to ask is Nakagami Starlight that much more stronger than Crimson Lotus Phoenix Blade? Keep in mind EF Mard Geer tanked this attack, probably took medium damage (I can't tell because Mard's EF makes it hard to see).
Yes, because there is a difference. As a character grows stronger, so does their magic. The dispute here is whether Erza has gotten stronger. Comparing how she fared against Ajeel and Kyōka, I say yes. It seems like most users don't though. Anyways, the reason why Nakagami Starlight would be more powerful than Crimson Lotus Phoenix Blade is because like you said, it seemed like it inflicted medium damage on Mard Geer. At least to me. Going by that standard, Erza's strongest attack used when she has grown a lot stronger should inflict high-extreme damage. This may not be one-shot like I exaggerated, but it should 'defeat' Ajeel while any attack following would put him near death.
This also has to do with whether you think Tartaros Erza was close to the power of Tartaros Natsu. To me, they aren't exactly the same but definitely comparable. I think it would be an understatement to say one was way stronger than the other.
I think you're making a mistake by thinking that simply being a better hand to hand or CQC equals being stronger. I strongly disagree. Ajeel has enough to keep up with MG and then he has his sand body to negate damage. Assuming this was a simple fight that didn't necessarily involve magic attacks, MG would have a lot more chance at winning but there's a lot more to it. What Ajeel might not have in terms of tanking or physical competence, he makes up in his magic type and attacks. Gildarts is very possibly the greatest hand to hand fighter in FT guild but compare his battle against bluenote and Natsu's 'battle' against bluenote. Natsu could've possibly ended in the same condition or close to Gildarts after his tenrou battle but rather than go for an unlikely and possibly more difficult form of combat, he took out Bluenote with a solid attack from range. This is what Ajeel has going for him. With sand world and sand body as well as him having more than enough attacks to comfortably battle while within his sand world, he doesn't need to go Mano against MG. MG's speed counts for nothing since he wouldn't even be able to see Ajeel. In the event that he does land a hit, ajeel's sand body provides immunity. In conditions where MG can't even see while Ajeel is perfectly at home, the latter gains advantage even in basic combat where MG's greatest chance was. That's simply why Ajeel outclasses MG. As long as Ajeel takes the battle seriously and doesn't get distracted, this is a mid diff battle at best. As for attacks, he used sands of death which made Titan makarov seem like a dwarf. He has ramal attacks which have sharp cutting abilities and he can drain moisture and thus energy from his opponents by touching them. He can easily create multiply gigantic golems to aid him and though all these may not be much trouble normally, it's completely different if he uses them in sand world where the opponent has zero visibility. Even the ant lion pits can help to immobile the opponent.
It doesn't equal to being stronger and I never said such a thing. I said that having better attack potency and durability makes you stronger than an opponent with the same speed, unless the opponent has haxed abilities, which is the case (Sand Body).
I agree on your Sand Body point, and I never said the opposite, but I don't agree on your point of magic type and attacks. Mard Geer has actually shown better mid ranged attacks than Ajeel, such as Yggdrasil, and I doubt that dehydration that didn't affect Erza would do anything to attacks such as Yggdrasil or the attack Mard used to stop CSK.
Point conceded on Sand World. However, I still don't see anything that could affect Mard. First, why would Sands of Death even touch EMG in the first place? EMG has aerial-based abilites and attacks such as Sands of Death and Ant Lion Pit are ground-based abilities. Then, why would Ajeel's dehydration techniques affect Mard, who has city-level durability, when they failed to affect Erza, who has town-level durability? His sand axe, which is hyped to easily decapitate someone with town-level durability, is the only thing I see going for him; and his unnamed attacks would hardly make anything to a character as durable as Mard. I could see this going to Ajeel after a long battle within Sand World, but then, what's stopping EMG from going away from Sand World? Sand World has a 5 to 7 km range, so Mard, having hypersonic movement speed via scaling with the CSK, would go away from it in just a few seconds. If this does indeed end up in a stamina battle, I see this going extreme diff to Mard, due to his superior durability and stamina and because he won't have to use his curse.
Going back to the Sand Body point, Sand Body may be limited, seeing that it didn't work with Jupiter, but this might just happen with energy based attacks, so I'm conceding on this point. Overall, my veredict is that if intangibility is on, Mard takes this extreme diff, if intangibility is off, Mard takes it mid diff.
Yes, because there is a difference. As a character grows stronger, so does their magic. The dispute here is whether Erza has gotten stronger. Comparing how she fared against Ajeel and Kyōka, I say yes. It seems like most users don't though. Anyways, the reason why Nakagami Starlight would be more powerful than Crimson Lotus Phoenix Blade is because like you said, it seemed like it inflicted medium damage on Mard Geer. At least to me. Going by that standard, Erza's strongest attack used when she has grown a lot stronger should inflict high-extreme damage. This may not be one-shot like I exaggerated, but it should 'defeat' Ajeel while any attack following would put him near death.
This also has to do with whether you think Tartaros Erza was close to the power of Tartaros Natsu. To me, they aren't exactly the same but definitely comparable. I think it would be an understatement to say one was way stronger than the other.
Why should Starlight inflict high-extreme damage, just because she is stronger? Is her power output greater than DF Natsu?
Tartarus Erza is stronger than Tartarus Natsu (w/o DF) not by heaps but she'd win. But I don't see how this figures into the conversation. DF Natsu is the one who caused damage on Mard.
This is The Comparative Destructive Power of Fairytail Characters
Small town: 1 to 5 km
Large town: 5 to 10 km
Small city: 10+ km
Hill: Anything below 600 metres
Small mountain: Above 600 metres
Typical mountain: Above 2 km
Large mountain: Above 4 km
Energy content matters more than destroying stuff
Town level feats from Fairy Tail characters:
NOTE: Anything with energy equivalence of 4.184 Terajoules (i.e. 1 Kiloton) or more is considered small town level, 10+ Kilotons is Town level, 100+ Kilotons or more is large town level...
Small town level:
Erza's Armadura Fairy: 2 to 2.5 Kilotons
Erza Knightwalker's Ravelt: 2 to 2.5 Kilotons
Motherglare stomps: 2 to 3 Kilotons
Orga's Lightning God's Charged Particle Cannon: 3.43 Kilotons
(yes this attack had that much energy - you need at least 2 Kilotons to vaporize a building and Orga vaporized the entire top part of a large building)
Bluenote's sand crater: 7 to 8 Kilotons
Erza pierces through cube: 8 to 10 Kilotons
Town level:
Laxus disperses Ajeel's Sands of Death: 26 to 33 Kilotons
Large town level:
Jose and Makarov's clash creates dark clouds over a small area, small tsunamis and mild tremors: well into the triple digit Terajoules this one is...
Laxus's Thunder Palace: 93 to 125 Kilotons
Bluenote begins to crumble a hill: well into the triple digit Terajoules
Gildarts' Empyrean against Drum Bee: 260 Kilotons
City level feats from Fairy Tail characters:
NOTE: Anything with energy equivalence of 4.184 Petajoules (i.e. 1 Megaton) or more is city level...
Gildarts wrecks a small mountain: Haven't seen or done a calc yet but busting a small mountain such as that one takes the same amount of destructive capacity as busting a small city...
Natsu's Fire Dragon King's Roar: 0.6 to 1.2 Megatons (assuming pulverization)
Laxus's lightning dome against Ajeel: Lowest estimate is 2.7 Megatons
Jellal's Sema: 6+ Megatons
Motherglare's roar: 5 to 6 Megatons
Igneel's roar against Acnologia: no proper calc yet but it's easily city level in terms of energy output
Acnologia's roar on Tenrou: 80-100 Megatons (holy shit that's a lot of Megatons)
Yes, because there is a difference. As a character grows stronger, so does their magic. The dispute here is whether Erza has gotten stronger. Comparing how she fared against Ajeel and Kyōka, I say yes. It seems like most users don't though. Anyways, the reason why Nakagami Starlight would be more powerful than Crimson Lotus Phoenix Blade is because like you said, it seemed like it inflicted medium damage on Mard Geer. At least to me. Going by that standard, Erza's strongest attack used when she has grown a lot stronger should inflict high-extreme damage. This may not be one-shot like I exaggerated, but it should 'defeat' Ajeel while any attack following would put him near death.
This also has to do with whether you think Tartaros Erza was close to the power of Tartaros Natsu. To me, they aren't exactly the same but definitely comparable. I think it would be an understatement to say one was way stronger than the other.
Memento Mori wasn't featless. Sure, it didn't demonstrate its intention or capability, but as far as canon goes, it's valid. You could see what M2 did to Gray. Gray absorbed M2 and his body reacted to it, it was the first signs of Gray's black marks.
Yes, Mard Geer can heal himself and yes, his physical ability in combat was off the charts.
He dodged and fended off CSK as if it was nothing, he didn't even flinch or show any signs of fear. In fact, he smirked.
Mard Geer even hit CSK multiple times with his thorn magic and dodged the huge AoE damage from CSK.
I seriously don't know how this thread got this popular (it was a good one though).
It's easy, Ajeel wins according to @natsulucy requirements/restrictions in this thread. Only cuz Ajeel is 1 year later.
Memento Mori wasn't featless. Sure, it didn't demonstrate its intention or capability, but as far as canon goes, it's valid. You could see what M2 did to Gray. Gray absorbed M2 and his body reacted to it, it was the first signs of Gray's black marks.
Yes, Mard Geer can heal himself and yes, his physical ability in combat was off the charts.
He dodged and fended off CSK as if it was nothing, he didn't even flinch or show any signs of fear. In fact, he smirked.
Mard Geer even hit CSK multiple times with his thorn magic and dodged the huge AoE damage from CSK.
I seriously don't know how this thread got this popular (it was a good one though).
It's easy, Ajeel wins according to @natsulucy requirements/restrictions in this thread. Only cuz Ajeel is 1 year later.
Memento Mori IS featless. Can you tell me exactly what it does or how it works? Can you tell me on who it works or its potency? No, you can't, because all we had was Mard stating it would do something and then seeing it fail. This means that it's featless. Until we see Memento Mori actually do something to anyone, it will remain restricted to versus thread.
Saying that it's one year later literally makes no sense. That's like saying that GMG Erza was stronger than Phantom Jose because Erza was 7 years ahead of Jose.
