Fantasy Mercophobia vs Igneel

[WoWfan]

Igneel is not getting past DGs who are on Acno’s level tho, and losing twice no less. Acno scales to it on the account of how he scales to a Etherion which was calced to be Multi-Continent Level as well. in Tartarus Arc, they have shown to resist soul steal. He was referring to anime making the mistake of adding scars where there were none, There was a scar in all the images where Igneel was inside Natsu, and none where he was raising Natsu even before he raised Natsu. He had to have gotten it from Acno since there is no info where he did participate in the Dragon Civil War. And that is my point, you are disregarding the level of strength people have that gives them some sort of resistance to various hax abilities. No, I am saying Prime Igneel lost because he did not act in desperation to defeat Acnologia, where as he did in Tartarus and that is how he ripped off Acno’s arm. Igneel spent most of his life waiting for revenge against Acno and he could not afford to die 400 years ago so that is why he went to the future

 

[Kurumi Tokisaki]

Natsu, Lucy, Happy, Zeref can resist soul steal, with Parent Dragons that would have allowed them to win if Acnologia wasn’t already op powerful.

Acnologia for once never used this on the dragon slayers. You are claming that Soul Hax can resisted with sheer power. Can show me canon manga panel of acnologia using this ability on a dragon slayer and them resisting it using sheer strength.

You have saying too much nonsense just as like Natsu is Multi Continental when he has yet to bust a Country or Continent. Don't care much about the scientific bs calculations because this is a magical world, science doesn't matter.

 

[WoWfan]

Natsu, Lucy and Happy have shown to resist soul steal in Tartarus, Acno did not use this on DS because he did this for Dragons. Yes it does when science is being applied to said magic on multiple occasions, Hiro stated that magic is used to make things in real life easier to accomplish. They still obey the laws of physics, while at the same time have supernatural abilities, that is why Magic is born of both nature and spirit, it applies to both

 

[Kurumi Tokisaki]

Yes it does when science is being applied to said magic on multiple occasions, Hiro stated that magic is used to make things in real life easier to accomplish. They still obey the laws of physics, while at the same time have supernatural abilities, that is why Magic is born of both nature and spirit, it applies to both

Can you show me a scientifically accepted theory of someone burning time. If you can't whatever you are saying is irrelevant. I don't need fan made theories stuff or Mashima's. Mashima himself is not scientist.

--- Double Post Merged, Aug 16, 2019, Original Post Date: Aug 16, 2019 ---

Natsu, Lucy and Happy have shown to resist soul steal in Tartarus

Rest of DS haven't shown this. Franmalth is pure fodder to Acnologia. Difference between is two big.

 

[WoWfan]

Energy-stress tensor which is attributed to density and flux of energy and momentum bending the space time continuum, and according to general relativity, mass as well as energy and stress (pressure) distorts the space time curvature.

And even when significantly heated to a certain point, the laws of physics breaks down, which can be attributed to Natsu’s flames of emotions, the more emotional he gets, the more intense his flames be

And that is my point, strength does determine resistance to soul steal, anyone significant can do it which is why Peak Igneel is weak to Acno.

 

[Axiomus]

This is assuming that Franmalth's soul stealing ability works anything like Acnologia's. One is a curse from a fodder-level Etherious and one is a special type of dragon slaying magic from Acnologia. Even Natsu's demonic powers and his regular flames don't work exactly alike or have the same power level, and they're coming from the same person.

Pointing out Igneel's losses against Acnologia doesn't really show us how Mercphobia beats Igneel. Mercphobia hasn't actually beaten anyone. He lost quickly against Natsu, whom you claim to be on Acnologia's level. He also lost to Skullion and was injured pretty badly by Kyria, neither of which are anywhere close to Acnologia's level. Igneel put up a much better fight against Acnologia than Mercphobia was able to put up against any of his opponents.

Igneel was aiming to kill Acnologia with that bite during Tartarus. If he was in the position to do so 400 years ago, he would have gone for it. He couldn't though, because Acnologia stole his soul and weakened him. He went 400 years into the future to recover that lost power.

 

[WoWfan]

How else would soul steal deviate from whatever function it does in general apart from soul steal, other than Acno stealing the souls of dragons. Even so, Natsu as END is definitely stronger than his base form at the time. Merc being on Acno’s level already puts him above Igneel, peak or weakened, albeit it would be more difficult but still a win for Merc in the end. Merc was 50% when he fought Natsu who was Acno level at the time, and was obviously weaker when not in his 50% berserker state which explains his loss to Skull dude. No he wasn’t when he clearly stated prior to his death that he stood no chance, you cannot say he was aiming for something that he consciously realized he was in capable of, he moved with desperate attempt to maim him so that the humans can deal with him in the future, which still st his peak was in capable of since he was weaker then as well. As the saying goes “Shoulda, woulda, coulda”

 

[Axiomus]

Acnologia is much stronger than Franmalth. Just because Natsu and Lucy can resist Franmalth's soul stealing by willpower it certainly doesn't mean Igneel had less willpower or physical strength than GMG Natsu. For all we know, Acnologia's soul stealing could have been so strong that it didn't matter how much willpower you had. I'm not sure why END being stronger than base Natsu factors into any of this. Igneel could crush END with a toe, so it's pretty irrelevant anyways.

The Mercphobia we are talking about is the version that fought Natsu. This version of Mercphobia isn't on Acnologia's level. He's weakened to half of Acnologia's level. We are not interested in any version of Mercphobia other than the version that fought Natsu. Pointing out how Mercphobia only had 50% of his power when he lost to Skullion still doesn't make Mercphobia more impressive. The power Igneel left within Natsu's arm would have been far less than 50%. It would have been leftovers after his long fight with Acnologia. At that point Igneel's strength was already fading, and then he got ripped apart, and then he died. Even after all that, Igneel's power still made Natsu more impressive than Mercphobia in his human form.

Igneel never said that he stood no chance against Acnologia. Not before his death against Acnologia. Not ever. He stated in no uncertain terms that he wanted to personally kill Acnologia. Igneel was aiming to kill Acnologia with that final attack, not maim Acnologia so that the humans had a chance. The plan was never so that Igneel could hurt Acnologia and let the humans take over. The dragon's plan was always to travel 400 years into the future so that Igneel could recover his power, and personally defeat Acnologia. Now Igneel underestimated Acnologia and couldn't actually defeat him, but he never doubted his chances up until the very end. He had enough confidence that he didn't ask the other parent dragons.

Spoiler: Igneel's final speech

All this ultimately leads ups back to the fact that Igneel was able to put up a better fight against Acnologia than Mercphobia was able to put up against Natsu with Ignia's flames. This is just a fact. Igneel got Acnologia all bloodied up after a 20 minute fight, and ripped off an arm. Mercphobia did no damage to Natsu and got beaten in just 4 hits. If you believe Natsu with Ignia's flames is on the same level as Acnologia, then this alone would prove that Tartarus-arc Igneel is stronger than the version of Mercphobia that fought Natsu.

 

[WoWfan]

That is not the point, it is simply if Igneel was on Acno’s level then he would resist the soul steal, and allow the other dragons to kill Acno while he was doing it. And that is why Acno is far stronger than igneel than when he was at his prime. We wouldn’t know since they did not fight. Besides it is END’s power to surpass god powers like Zeref’s curse. And just because Merc is not on Acno’s level does not means he gets one shotted by igneel who was already weaker than acno than when he was at his prime. Merc was weaker than when he went berserk, it is simple. Yes he did, because Acno is stronger than he expected means he was confined to his own fate, he saying waited for this moment to bury Acno is a contradiction in his own statement when he failed to come to that realization. His plan was to kill Acno, but realized he had no chance so he tried to take what he could so the other humans can take him, that was just his determination, not because he didn’t doubt his chances. You are forgetting that Natsu was on Acno Level when he ate Ignia’s flames and Merc was half that in his berserk state, Igneel was not on Acno level, prime or weakened.

 

[Axiomus]

There's no reason to assume that the dragon slaying magic that Acnologia used to steal souls could be resisted whatsoever. The other dragons weren't strong enough to take Acnologia down, and the other dragons also had also had their souls stolen. Igneel never contradicted himself. He said that Acnologia was stronger than he expected, and that he was waiting for the moment where he could personally kill Acnologia. These two statements do not contradict each other. Igneel was aiming to kill Acnologia with that last attack. He wasn't planning on dealing some damage and letting humans take over. It just so happens to be that Acnologia was stronger and Igneel couldn't kill him, but the intention to kill was there right up until the end. Igneel would have attempted to kill Acnologia 400 years ago as well, if Acnologia hadn't weakened him by stealing his soul. This entire soul stealing thing is completely irrelevant anyways. For the last time, these are the conditions of this thread:

This thread very specifically pits Tartaros-arc Igneel against Mercphobia that fought Natsu with Ignia's flames. Tartaros-arc Igneel fought Acnologia for 20 minutes. Tartaros-arc Igneel got Acnologia all bloodied up and coughing up blood. Tartaros-arc Igneel managed to rip off one of Acnologia's arm. Mercphobia that fought Natsu with Ignia's flames was not on Acnologia's level. Mercphobia that fought Natsu with Ignia's flames was weakened to around half his power. Mercphobia that fought Natsu with Ignia's flames was defeated in 4 hits, and could not deal any damage to Natsu.

Mercphobia cannot steal souls, so Mercphobia cannot defeat Igneel the same way Acnologia did 400 years ago. Tartaros-arc Igneel no longer has a soul to steal anyways. So in order for Mercphobia to beat Igneel, Mercphobia must engage Igneel in a direct fight. We saw what happens when Igneel fought Acnologia during Tartaros, and we saw what happened when Mercphobia fought Natsu with Ignia's flames. Igneel did better. It's really as simple as that. Nobody is talking about oneshots here, but Igneel would beat the version of Mercphobia that fought Natsu.

 

[Kurumi Tokisaki]

END’s power to surpass god powers like Zeref’s curse.

END has nothing to do here.

 

[WoWfan]

Axiomus mentioned END against Merc, not me.

And it is simple, since Igneel at his prime could not beat Acno even with other dragons, he would not be able to win against Merc even at 50% strength since Igneel has has no wins nor redeeming feats that would give him an edge

 

[Axiomus]

Nobody mentioned END against Mercphobia. I only mentioned END to illustrate the difference between Franmalth's curse and Acnologtia's magic. END's flames have different properties compared to Natsu's regular flames, and Natsu is stronger with his own magic using FDK spells or Dragon Force. Pointing out how END is stronger than base Natsu is irrelevant. END is fodder to Igneel anyways.

Igneel in his prime lost to Acnologia because Acnologia used a special type of dragon slaying magic to steal his soul. Mercphobia doesn't have this power. When Acnologia was forced to fight Igneel in physical combat, we see the result in their battle during the Tartaros arc. Igneel put up a far greater fight against Acnologia than Mercphobia was able to put up against Natsu. Igneel simply has better feats.

 

[WoWfan]

As END, he can overcome god powers such as Dimaria’s time stop. FDK mode supposedly can bypass immortality. There is a difference between hax and strength, which can go hand and hand in some cases, but in this case it is not. We would never know since we did not see them fight. Igneel would have fought Acnologia first before Acno had a chance to use his spell which, there is no way Dragons would give him a chance to do so, unless you say that Aminus is as strong as Igneel since he used the same technique as parent dragons did. Again, Met was weakened compared to DG level natsu, and igneel never stood a chance against Acno either way, which he was only desperate

 

[Axiomus]

END's power being stronger than a god is completely irrelevant. First of all, it's not impressive. Natsu already surpassed the power of a god when he smashed the war god Ikusatsunagi. Natsu with his own magic power surpassed Zeref's Fairy Heart, which is more powerful than Dimaria's chronos soul and also described as the power of a god. Irene is a stronger member of the Spriggan 12 than Dimaraia. Her sage dragon form is stronger than Dimaria's god takeover. In fact, Irene's sage dragon form has better feats than END. Erza could block END's all out attack (and Gray's) with her bare hands without much injury. Erza tried to block a casual swipe from Irene's dragon claw with her sword, and the claw still smashed all her bones. We know Igneel is stronger than END because Zeref admitted that there was no physical reason Igneel couldn't have simply crushed END with a single toe. Igneel just never did so because he loved Natsu.

Igneel and Acnologia may have fought 400 years ago, but Acnologia only beat Igneel back then because of a special type of dragon slaying magic that ripped out his soul. The other dragons who fought Acnologia would have met the same fate. When they rematched during Tartaros arc, Acnologia no longer had an easy out to Igneel and was forced to engage in physical combat to the end. Animus being able to seal himself inside a human doesn't put him on Igneel's level. The other parent dragons can all do this, and it doesn't put them on Igneel's level either. I am not sure what point you're trying to make with Animus, but I will say this: Acnologia did not fight Igneel and Animus at the same time. In any case, Mercphobia does not have Acnologia's ability to steal soul, and only has half the magic power of Acnologia in this fight. The fact that Mercphobia is at 50% of his power is something that is actually accounted for in the rules of this thread. With every factor accounted for, Igneel still stood a far better chance against Acnologia than Mercphobia ever did against Natsu. Simply put:

• Igneel fought Acnologia for 20 minutes. Mercphobia was beaten by Natsu after 4 hits.
• Igneel gave Acnologia cuts along his body and make him cough up blood. Mercphobia could not inflict any injuries on Natsu
• Igneel gave bit off one of Acnologia's arms. Mercphobia could not inflict any injuries on Natsu.

Igneel lasted longer and injured his opponent more. Even if you call tearing off Acnologia's arm an act of desperation, Igneel was still significantly more impressive. At least he could still fight Acnologia for 20 minutes and inflict some injuries. Mercphobia couldn't even do anything except act like a punching bag for Natsu. What was Mercphobia's act of desperation? The tail whip that did nothing to slow down Natsu's onslaught? The roar that got overwhelmed by FDK Brilliant Flame?

 

[WoWfan]

END’s power is to surpass a god’s power, not more or less than FDKM’s bypassing immortality hax which ikusunagi is a god so it would still apply as well. END was not at full power as he was still transforming and Erza was still human and mortal, just naturally has crazy durability. Natsu’s magic reached a temperature where it basically breaks down the laws of physics which is a natural phenomenon. That does not mean it is powerful enough to surpass a god’s immortality. He burned Erza’s Hand which is much better than any feat Irene has done. That is why we will never know they ehi would be stronger. But I digress. If Acno could only beat Igneel by one magic that means he is weaker than Acno so it would not only work, he would have better stats and would blitz him before he would use said spell. That is what you are saying. Igneel was simply outclassed both in his prime and in his weakened state, also it is known even weakened, magic users can become stronger with the power of feelings so that explains why he could last as long as he did. But still no guarantees victory. A feat is not the same as victory as Merc even at 50% strength is still a major threat to those weaker. Especially to Natsu who was at DG 100% tier

 

[Seven777]

Igneel wins, ripping off Acno's arm is the best feat in the manga bar Natsu killing him. Igneel even had the raw power to knock out Acno without the use of his magic, Merc who isn't immune would likely have been outright killed by that point, even at 100%.

Igneel also probably never faced Acno when he was alive, since he had never before experienced Acnos strength.

 

[WoWfan]

He didn’t use anything though, it was face that effected Acnologia. Igneel is confirmed weaker than Acno even In prime. He has, that explains the scars he has, and no there is no proof that he fought other dragons since he spent most of his time raising Natsu

 

[Kurumi Tokisaki]

Igneel easily wins. Ripping of acno's arm better than Merc has achieved.

 

[WoWfan]

Too bad he would not win either way