Hangout MH Seinen Hangout

[barbapapa]

I'll Give It My All... Is another great title.

 

[Kaiten]

I bought the first volume of that but money got tight so I haven't bought any more. Funny manga. Sadly VIZ hasn't added anymore titles to the SIG IKKI line this year, hopefully there will be next year. If they do, I hope they license Freesia.

 

[barbapapa]

I actually don't expect them to do more in the near future; I mean I was very surprised that they even took this initiative in the first place. But with the current state of the manga market, I don't think they'll dig too deep into the IKKI catalog, alas.
I would kill for an official version of Noramimi, though.
Would be nice (IKKI aside) if they did another Taiyo Matsumoto manga, Takemitsu Zamurai is ripe for the picking, and absolutely amazing. The story is also highly accessible, the only thing that would initially scare people off may be the art style.
By the way I wrote some blog posts on my tumblr account about manga/authors I'd like to see published, in case you're interested: http://manprudbloempje.tumblr.com/

 

[Kaiten]

My expectations are very low but I will be following licensing announcements closely when New York Comic Con (or whatever the hell they call it) starts. They seem to have scaled down their seinen line in general, not much came out this year, so it may not be worth getting my hopes up. Noramimi books would be amazing, if it were to ever come.

I've only read part way through Takemitsu, when Hox took a break from translating I stopped reading and have not had a chance to come back to it. Ideally I would like to see new editions of Number Five with Ping Pong and Zero licensed. Fat chance seeing any sports manga licensed though, even if the editors at VIZ probably love his work. Hanaotoko is another one I'd like to see licensed.

I'll check out your blog later this afternoon, I need to read your Tomehane post. A great series that I've gotten addicted to over the last few months.

 

[barbapapa]

Actually the entire bunkoban version of Number Five was released digitally on iPad via the iTunes store; so there IS an official version out there. I bought it myself, and despite some lazy lettering the overall translation is good, as it was done by Yuji Oniki who also did the Viz version of volumes 1-2 back in the stone age of publishing. The extras are also nice, being an exclusive interview, wallpaper, and short piece of animation. I have the feeling this format is going to be the future for less marketable series. Kind of a pity, 'cause nothing beats owning a nice paper version. For example Viz' version of Matsumoto's Gogo Monster is just gorgeous.
Also that Tomehane! post isn't so extensive, tumblr kinda allows you to make lazy 4chan-esque image posts with some small text accompanying it.
Anyway it's a nice series, not groundbreaking or anything, but solid content and loads of it.

 

[Josef]

Awesome blog barba! Too bad these are some of the most unknown authors ever, I would not have known about them, if not for your post on that blog. I am sad that such manga don't fall in the mainstream category, simply because of the content that may disturb readers. I am happy that at least here on the Internet we help make them more popular.

 

[barbapapa]

Thanks Josef, glad I could serve someone with an interest in these things.

 

[Josef]

Hm, I have noticed that seinen in general rarely get a new fan base, aside from Gantz, that most start out of sheer curiosity because of the feedback they get from others, I visit this forum the most and almost no posts are seen within days, weeks sometimes, only two-three per week of solid discussion. Is the genre dying out and killing the discussion or is it that people are literally scared of reading seinen? I was about to open a discussion on how get seinen get more fans but I thought I'd ask here? It would have to do something with the popularization of the genre.

Most seinen readers are already familiar with this genre and like it and probably will always read it, others "shy away" from it, it's really bad, the same manga get the same people reading them, even established seinen readers are not keen on discussion, I believe they know they will not get anything out of it, not a good discussion I mean, so they do not bother starting.

 

[barbapapa]

Maybe most seinen readers have matured beyond "gabbing" about manga on forums? I know I'm a heck of a lot less active on forums compared to when I still read a lot of shounen series. Not that I don't enjoy talking about manga, because I really do and I hardly know anyone IRL who likes the same stuff I do. But then we're talking about real life conversations, which I would much rather have than use forums... To me forums are good for sharing information, and especially in the case of obscure seinen manga: spreading the word. As for discussions, I hardly partake in those about any subject. Don't be too surprised, but a lot of seinen readers are cynical fucks who have a hard time accepting what most think. ;-)

On the other hand I think that there's basically 2 groups of people that start reading manga:
- The kind that lose interest once they mature beyond what the mainstream has to offer.
- The kind that is too obsessed with comics to stop, and makes the leap towards a more mature, rewarding kind of reading.
It goes without saying that the first group is the larger one.

Either way I don't think the genre is dying, nor will it ever expand immensely. There has been a rise in the popularity of seinen manga in the last few years however, due to "bridging" series that narrow the gap between hardcore seinen and accessible shounen (I'm especially thinking of the works of Naoki Urasawa); and due to the general incline in manga readers. When I started reading manga in '04, even the most lukewarm of seinen manga was still considered to be obscure, and you could hardly find anyone talking about them.

 

[Josef]

This was an issue before in this thread I believe, it was just in a different context, I will have to check. But generally seinen has that unexplainable desire to make me want to discuss it, which never happened before to me sans One Piece, but I was really into discussing in dept theories about it and the story just delivers the atmosphere to discuss. Of course this was until I also discovered Gantz, where I was rushing to a forum or discussion board to tell my opinions about it, I tried reading faster to catch up to the discussion. After that the same with Liar Game which I read the fastest along with Gantz, 3 days I believe. And then Berserk, which was a special case really, I needed to take mental breaks to clear my mind at times, it was really scary at some points how the story sucked me in.

But spreading the word as you say really is key for me, spreading the word might make people want to come and share the ideas about the series, which MH does with it's recommendations and such, but something more is needed. More discussions about the genre, more explorations into it, truly for me seinen was like Berserk and Gantz, that's it, after that it was more manga like : "Journey to the End of the Earth", I think it was called which occupied my mind, so in reality we have seinens that are mainstream as well and yet other seinens are buried even with these mainstream ones. I would qualify to be an explorer into the seinen genre, I never really gave it a chance but Gantz was also shounen based at times so these bridging series might just be the case, Urasawa was really talked about right after these popular ones so his manga had an influence on my views as well. i noticed that all of them follow a similar pattern and something binds them, they are original and unknown.

 

[barbapapa]

To be honest sometimes I'm glad that seinen manga isn't as popular as shounen manga. Then again if it was I probably wouldn't care for it because it would be catering to a larger target audience.
But if those really obscure ones I enjoy most were just a tad more popular, and there was a common place to share opinions about these... I definitely would not mind that.

 

[Josef]

Hehe, keeping these manga to ourselves is good, I mean it does make them more special I think, not us reading them, but their story, I do not know, it's just a way at looking at these things, I guess best option would be to dig deeper into these manga and try to popularize new ones, like the Jump magazine does for it's manga, they promote them in the magazine and the WSJ thread is filled with people willing to start these new shounens.

 

[barbapapa]

I guess that's just the thing, those shounen series are the general image people have of manga. Easy to get into, pleasing to the eye, a "fun romp." Just look at how we ourselves got into it... I grew up watching Dragonball, not Monster. ;P
Whereas most seinen manga require a lot more from readers (and translators as well). Like I said, it's mostly for us grumpy, veteran readers who just refuse to let a hobby go. Thank god we still get something in terms of comics. :-)

 

[MattC302]

I think some people are afraid to talk about something deeper than fights and power levels and a lot of the Seinen manga require that. Not everyone is up for a deep conversation. I know I am sometimes reluctant to engage in that kind of conversation for fear that I am not smart enough.

 

[Josef]

I am UBER happy that I started a discussion. /pats self on back

Ok, well we did got into manga via shounen, to be correct for myself it was actually anime first, anime actually is the type of thing to spread the word about manga. My general image was that I see anime as guys with long hair, fights, coll animation, over the years it has become more, I think it was because of reading One Piece, that manga is story driven so I searched for manga that had more stories, even though Gantz was a lucky pick , it had the mystery feeling to it. Shounen are more categorized as comics, whereas Seinen is like a well written work of art.

I was afraid to admit reading Gantz at first, but that was the beauty of it, as I read on, as I said I wanted to get to discuss it. Sadly the irregularity of these manga really is their downfall as well, but it adds to them being special. Of course you need to know how to discuss them, but the sheer comment on a moment of the manga is enough to cause a discussion.

 

[barbapapa]

Just wondering, do any of you guys here also buy (or have the intention) to buy seinen manga?
I actually used to buy a shitload of shounen manga in English, but along the way I kept getting better at Japanese and at one point I figured "Okay, I still want to be buying manga, but these long-running shounen manga have to go."
Reasons such as: shounen being pretty easy to read in Japanese due to furigana - long running series tend to lose their drive, and thus are an unsure investment - most plain suck when you think about it
But the reason I still buy some seinen manga now and then is because I feel they need to be supported all the way. Plus it's kinda nice when you have a bookcase filled with stuff that is bound to go out of print. :m

One such manga I'm currently buying is Twin Spica published by Vertical. Though maybe hard to classify as seinen when you read it, it's definitely one of those I like to call "bridging" series. Not just between shounen and seinen, but I think even shoujo. I don't think many readers know about it, granted there was an anime adaptation at one point but it sucked pretty hard. Definitely enjoying the heck out of it, and I highly recommend it to people who like wholesome manga such as YKK (looks at Matt's sig), Piano no Mori, A Bride's Story, and so on.

 

[MattC302]

Just wondering, do any of you guys here also buy (or have the intention) to buy seinen manga?
I actually used to buy a shitload of shounen manga in English, but along the way I kept getting better at Japanese and at one point I figured "Okay, I still want to be buying manga, but these long-running shounen manga have to go."
Reasons such as: shounen being pretty easy to read in Japanese due to furigana - long running series tend to lose their drive, and thus are an unsure investment - most plain suck when you think about it
But the reason I still buy some seinen manga now and then is because I feel they need to be supported all the way. Plus it's kinda nice when you have a bookcase filled with stuff that is bound to go out of print. :m

One such manga I'm currently buying is Twin Spica published by Vertical. Though maybe hard to classify as seinen when you read it, it's definitely one of those I like to call "bridging" series. Not just between shounen and seinen, but I think even shoujo. I don't think many readers know about it, granted there was an anime adaptation at one point but it sucked pretty hard. Definitely enjoying the heck out of it, and I highly recommend it to people who like wholesome manga such as YKK (looks at Matt's sig), Piano no Mori, A Bride's Story, and so on.

I buy any manga that interests me regardless of the demographic, but yeah, I am more likely to buy a shorter Seinen series than a long running Shonen. The only long running Shonen I am collecting is One Piece. 58 volumes and going, I can't really afford to invest in another like it. Among the Seinen in my collection are the complete series of Pluto, 20th Century Boys, REAL, A Bride's Story, Vagabond, and Eden:It's An Endless World!. I plan to continue buying these ongoing series and eventually add Akira, Berserk and Blade of the Immortal to my collection.

YKK is one of my favorite series and I would sell my soul to be able to add that to my collection. I doubt it will ever get licensed though.

 

[Josef]

Oh if only I could! My country is not that developed to have manga distributed here, in any language, the only way to get them is the Internet, but that also is tricky since most of the Internet is quite expensive when it comes to stuff like that, when I went to Germany I tried to buy some in that language but sadly I could not find, i do understand that well enough to read.

Even shounens are not distributed here, seinen would be like books banned form the church, seriously it would weird people out and stuff but even if it does arrive people will not spend money to buy them, not a good business.

 

[barbapapa]

YKK is one of my favorite series and I would sell my soul to be able to add that to my collection. I doubt it will ever get licensed though.

Haha, yeah I remember the olden days when I wanted to rally for an English licensed version of YKK. I should really get the original books at one point...
Same for Akira btw, that's one big name still missing from my collection. But hey, my birthday is coming up, and who knows someone actually buys me a great gift this year. ;p

---------- Post added at 11:05 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:04 PM ----------

Oh if only I could! My country is not that developed to have manga distributed here, in any language, the only way to get them is the Internet, but that also is tricky since most of the Internet is quite expensive when it comes to stuff like that, when I went to Germany I tried to buy some in that language but sadly I could not find, i do understand that well enough to read.

Even shounens are not distributed here, seinen would be like books banned form the church, seriously it would weird people out and stuff but even if it does arrive people will not spend money to buy them, not a good business.

Do you know about bookdepository.com? I'm not sure if they ship to Macedonia, but they offer free international shipping.

 

[MattC302]

Oh if only I could! My country is not that developed to have manga distributed here, in any language, the only way to get them is the Internet, but that also is tricky since most of the Internet is quite expensive when it comes to stuff like that, when I went to Germany I tried to buy some in that language but sadly I could not find, i do understand that well enough to read.

Even shounens are not distributed here, seinen would be like books banned form the church, seriously it would weird people out and stuff but even if it does arrive people will not spend money to buy them, not a good business.

Amazon ships world wide. That's where I buy most of my manga since Borders shut down. Or you could just go to college in an English speaking country since you seem to read and write English well enough.