Discussion Mser Tier list

[Tavore]

Would you consider Akaya stronger than Sanada if he gains a power up that surpasses PoP?

 

[mathematicianrcg]

Would you consider Akaya stronger than Sanada if he gains a power up that surpasses PoP?

Yes.

But depends on how Akaya uses it

 

[Echizen]

Based on Tezuka/Yukimura match, i can conclude that they both are stronger than current Ryoma at least if Ryoma doesn't get power up.. I go with this ranking for Mser.. For Atobe i think is not too far behind Ryoma and is a lot stronger than Kintarou.. They are the highlighted characters for the entire series..

1. Tezuka
2. Yukimura
3. Ryoma
4. Atobe
5. Kintarou

I believe all of them can compete (50-50) against Duke at most.. But they cannot surpass Byodoin,Tane,Tokugawa and Oni.. We havent seen Byo, Tane and Tokugawa full strength yet.. For Byo, what we saw his match against Tokugawa i think he only used not more than 50% of his full power.. Tane also mentioned that Byo beat all players abroad..

 

[TFJ]

Based on Tezuka/Yukimura match, i can conclude that they both are stronger than current Ryoma at least if Ryoma doesn't get power up.. I go with this ranking for Mser.. For Atobe i think is not too far behind Ryoma and is a lot stronger than Kintarou.. They are the highlighted characters for the entire series..

1. Tezuka
2. Yukimura
3. Ryoma
4. Atobe
5. Kintarou

I believe all of them can compete (50-50) against Duke at most.. But they cannot surpass Byodoin,Tane,Tokugawa and Oni.. We havent seen Byo, Tane and Tokugawa full strength yet.. For Byo, what we saw his match against Tokugawa i think he only used not more than 50% of his full power.. Tane also mentioned that Byo beat all players abroad..

I dont think Atobe has shown enough yet to be above some of the other upgraded MS. Not paying mind to foreign MS since I dont know them well.

 

[mathematicianrcg]

Based on Tezuka/Yukimura match, i can conclude that they both are stronger than current Ryoma at least if Ryoma doesn't get power up.. I go with this ranking for Mser.. For Atobe i think is not too far behind Ryoma and is a lot stronger than Kintarou.. They are the highlighted characters for the entire series..

1. Tezuka
2. Yukimura
3. Ryoma
4. Atobe
5. Kintarou

I believe all of them can compete (50-50) against Duke at most.. But they cannot surpass Byodoin,Tane,Tokugawa and Oni.. We havent seen Byo, Tane and Tokugawa full strength yet.. For Byo, what we saw his match against Tokugawa i think he only used not more than 50% of his full power.. Tane also mentioned that Byo beat all players abroad..

Poor Duke. We treated him as the weakest in Genious 5. Anyway, thats true

I agree that Tezuka anr Yukimura will beat Duke. I dont think Ryoma w/o plot armor can beat Duke easily.

 

[-Ken-]

I'm just going to post this here since the spoiler thread is locked. I can't even qoute things from that topic for some reasons.


Anyways, Hardy state this.
"I'm not sure what this tangent has anything to do with my arguments. You are the one stating that the revolution is better than anyone in court 3 and lower (namely WoK) not me."

WRONG WRONG WRONG. That’s absolutely wrong and nothing is correct about that statement. This is what I state.

"People already assigned the tier to the characters that they believe the character is regardless of what the manga show them like TFJ say. This can be clearly seen that many people still look highly on Tachibana/Chitose as higher than some people in the loser team although they are just equal to 3rd court while the loser team can beat the 2nd court and even some 1st stringer level."

Let's look at that again.

"many people still look highly on Tachibana/Chitose as higher than some people in the loser team"

I have clearly state “some people in the loser team”. So your point is wrong to begin with. I never state the whole court.

Moreover, I even state “That's the case for MS but NOT the case for majority of the HS that wasn't shown by Konomi to be otherwise.”. Showing that I do believe MS court may not be representative of their actual strength for some characters. However, for WoK, it's different. The limited of their strength is already fully shown since they lost, the pair level is clearly already limited to that court at best, until they are shown to be able to do beast syncho.

 

[Hardy]

Ok?

Then who in the second court triggered you? Did people say WoK > Sanada/Yanagi? Where?

--- Double Post Merged, Mar 9, 2021, Original Post Date: Mar 9, 2021 ---

A bit confused as to why we have two of these threads ngl LOL

 

[-Ken-]

Then who in the second court triggered you? Did people say WoK > Sanada/Yanagi? Where?

Well, in particular, it's this.

[Finals - Team 3 vs Team 12 Doubles 1] Taira/Momoshiro vs Tachibana/Chitose

Doubles 1Taira Yoshiyuki Momoshiro TakeshiTachibana Kippei Chitose SenriTitleSmiling Sharpshooter - Wings of KyuushuSchoolHigh School 2nd Year Seishun Gakuen 2nd YearFudomine 3rd Year Shitenhouji 3rd YearHeight??? 170 cm179 cm 194 cmWeight??? 58 kg67 kg 81 kgDominant HandLeft RightRight...

mangahelpers.com

Taira is 1st stringer that's better than 1st court and 2nd court and also 3rd court. That's like 3 level above the pair that beat WoK.

Momoshiro also beat Taira by that point, and is thus also 1st stringer tier.

Taira and Momoshiro are both double players at that point so their teamwork couldn't have really been that bad either.

Which bring me back to the original point that many people on this board just believe a character to be of a certain tier no matter what.

To add to it, there's this as well.

[Bonus Round] Doubles 1

Determine the strongest Doubles pair of the tournament. The bonus round ends on Thursday, October 25th 8 PM GMT. Cast your vote and discuss (logically) why you voted for who you voted for. Have fun, but keep it clean!

mangahelpers.com

WoK> Yanagi/Inui? Seriously? Those two MUST have play against 2nd court in some capacity and they both are also shown to be 1st stringer tier level with teamwork that make them THE undefeated pair when they are together. That's absolutely ridiculous.

Hakamada Izou/Mitsuya Akuto are also both 1st stringer tier. It's also ridiculous.

Marui/Kite lost pretty badly to 1st stringer so it's not that ridiculous to think WoK might be above them I suppose but I find it hard to think those two wouldn't at least be equal to some 1st court or 11-20 1st stringer double if they are picked to be playing against Genius 10 as well as got selected for the main tournament.

Date/Gin and Akutsu/Kawamura are also both honorable mention that have shown to be on 1st stringer tier in some capacity.

And as we have talk before, WoK are the 3rd court tier doubles wise.

 

[Hardy]

How does Momo return Abare Dama or Kamikakushi? His speed, mental and technique are all 3 which is subpar and he hasn't shown multi ball skills.

How good is beast synchro?

We jumped into a lot of those with wrong information, the first page is full of wrong stuff (for both sides).

And again, it was just people having fun, not sure why you took it so serious (it's been almost a decade lmao).

Nowadays I'm leaning on Taira soloing fwiw.

 

[-Ken-]

How does Momo return Abare Dama or Kamikakushi? His speed, mental and technique are all 3 which is subpar and he hasn't shown multi ball skills.

How good is beast synchro?

We jumped into a lot of those with wrong information, the first page is full of wrong stuff (for both sides).

And again, it was just people having fun, not sure why you took it so serious (it's been almost a decade lmao).

Nowadays I'm leaning on Taira soloing fwiw.

How does Chitose answer BJK? It's just one shot kill and as soon as he hit that his waist is broke and match over. Tachibana "might" be able to answer it but even then it's not really confirmed.

How good beast synchro has to be is irrelevant because almost decade later they still haven't been able to control it at all as far as the series confirmation go.

And my statement regarding court level in that thread is still valid even today. WoK have shown nothing to be above 3rd court level pair double wise even almost a decade later. So.... lmao.

And again, it serve to support my statement in the spoiler that people won't change their mind about character tier, period. Some people just lack the ability to analyze the changes in the manga. That's why I bring it up. Many people is just not capable of changing their mind and admit WoK actually is weaker than majority of pair in that tournament. It's just a true statement. At least 3 people including you actually state how WoK is overrated in Bonus Round thread as well.

This happen even now. Look at Zeus. He done a pretty great job against Tanegashima to the extent that if the rematch happen it'll be unclear who win. Also, we know Shiraishi doesn't stand a chance against him. Some people (if you want to know who just look around.) somehow just don't think Zeus is that strong although he's about even with Tanegashima. That's currently a man who's extremely likely to beat Germany #2. That's THE Germany.

 

[Hardy]

How does Chitose answer BJK? It's just one shot kill and as soon as he hit that his waist is broke and match over. Tachibana "might" be able to answer it but even then it's not really confirmed.

How good beast synchro has to be is irrelevant because almost decade later they still haven't been able to control it at all as far as the series confirmation go.

And my statement regarding court level in that thread is still valid even today. WoK have shown nothing to be above 3rd court level pair double wise even almost a decade later. So.... lmao.

And again, it serve to support my statement in the spoiler that people won't change their mind about character tier, period. Some people just lack the ability to analyze the changes in the manga. That's why I bring it up. Many people is just not capable of changing their mind and admit WoK actually is weaker than majority of pair in that tournament. It's just a true statement. At least 3 people including you actually state how WoK is overrated in Bonus Round thread as well.

This happen even now. Look at Zeus. He done a pretty great job against Tanegashima to the extent that if the rematch happen it'll be unclear who win. Also, we know Shiraishi doesn't stand a chance against him. Some people (if you want to know who just look around.) somehow just don't think Zeus is that strong although he's about even with Tanegashima. That's currently a man who's extremely likely to beat Germany #2. That's THE Germany.

BJK is not that? That's what we thought ten years ago, then it became clear Oni's broke Momo's wrists because it reflected the strength of the Jack Knife + his own (SSS property). Against Taira it reflected Bakyuun.

Chitose and Tachibana were supposed to be on the team but declined, so they are better than anyone that wasn't selected. They declined because they wanted to work on their beast synchro. You can read this in several different ways, including that the coaches thought they could perfect it against harder opposition. At the very least, we know it's been their focus, so it being a non factor is harsh, in a pinch anything can happen.

Again, they barely lost to the 3rd court while making improvements to their playstyles. Between this and the first string arrival you had ten days of "great development every second" (paraphrasing Sengoku).

I think everyone has their own biases in all discussions. Some do show it more than others but well, in its own way it makes things more interesting as you hear a very different perspective.

 

[-Ken-]

BJK is not that? That's what we thought ten years ago, then it became clear Oni's broke Momo's wrists because it reflected the strength of the Jack Knife + his own (SSS property). Against Taira it reflected Bakyuun.

Clear? I need source on this. Any evidence that it need those?

Chitose and Tachibana were supposed to be on the team but declined, so they are better than anyone that wasn't selected. They declined because they wanted to work on their beast synchro. You can read this in several different ways, including that the coaches thought they could perfect it against harder opposition. At the very least, we know it's been their focus, so it being a non factor is harsh, in a pinch anything can happen.

Where is this mention? I don't remember it.

And anyways, it doesn't matter because as a pair back then AND now they are 3rd court tier until they manage to use beast syncho at will. Until then, Momoshiro who had shown ability to beat 1st stringer AND 1st stringer themselves would have been a better pair.

Again, they barely lost to the 3rd court while making improvements to their playstyles. Between this and the first string arrival you had ten days of "great development every second" (paraphrasing Sengoku).

I think everyone has their own biases in all discussions. Some do show it more than others but well, in its own way it makes things more interesting as you hear a very different perspective.

That great development thing is probably the only argument so far that hold any water that may have WoK not be a 3rd court tier pair. Then again, the same apply to every players under the camp there.

And well, they still lost. In the end, that's the result and their current level. I do think they got good potential. We MIGHT see another arc past this tournament. After all, Camus and the ninja dude cut themselves short. Both that and the "potential" improvement of pairs like WoK shows that the story still got potential to continue. If they are shown to play again, they will be boost to whatever the level the characters are on then.

I only care for discussions when the other side can back it with something from interviews or databook or the manga tbh. Without those, it's useless to even bother hearing about it. The amount of things that I gotten right just by reading and assuming things are the way they are written is maddeningly crazy. A lot of those things are put into my signature for the lol because I know internet people won't admit they're wrong.

 

[Hardy]

Clear? I need source on this. Any evidence that it need those?



Where is this mention? I don't remember it.

And anyways, it doesn't matter because as a pair back then AND now they are 3rd court tier until they manage to use beast syncho at will. Until then, Momoshiro who had shown ability to beat 1st stringer AND 1st stringer themselves would have been a better pair.



That great development thing is probably the only argument so far that hold any water that may have WoK not be a 3rd court tier pair. Then again, the same apply to every players under the camp there.

And well, they still lost. In the end, that's the result and their current level. I do think they got good potential. We MIGHT see another arc past this tournament. After all, Camus and the ninja dude cut themselves short. Both that and the "potential" improvement of pairs like WoK shows that the story still got potential to continue. If they are shown to play again, they will be boost to whatever the level the characters are on then.

I only care for discussions when the other side can back it with something from interviews or databook or the manga tbh. Without those, it's useless to even bother hearing about it. The amount of things that I gotten right just by reading and assuming things are the way they are written is maddeningly crazy. A lot of those things are put into my signature for the lol because I know internet people won't admit they're wrong.

Specifically talked about here

Tane vs Rai explained it well. We saw it again in Ryoma vs Ludo.

They were both selected and Momo didn't even make it as a reserve so...

Spoiler: Konomi's interview in 23.5

”How did you decide the members to represent Japan?

I did a lot of careful consideration while calling to mind many characters’ and fans’ faces. This time, the setting is that Chitose and Tachibana declined due to their own thinking. Since they haven’t made a beast-like synchro their own thing yet, they decided they shouldn’t participate here and withdrew. I want to draw the further developed them too!”

Credit to imperfekti

--- Double Post Merged, Mar 9, 2021, Original Post Date: Mar 9, 2021 ---

And yeah the camp argument was against the hsers.

Idk I wouldn't shame people for their opinions lol

 

[Animariano]

What is a "Wok"?

 

[LetalHawk]

What is a "Wok"?

An all you can eat buffet

Nah, Wings of Kyushu

 

[-Ken-]

Specifically talked about here

Tane vs Rai explained it well. We saw it again in Ryoma vs Ludo.

That's... fan theory. I admit it's well-thought. But it's not confirm like how WoK lost to 3rd court pair or how Momoshiro beat a 1st stringer with BJK.

They were both selected and Momo didn't even make it as a reserve so...

Actually that interview confirm even more that's they are just 3rd court double pair level for now. It clearly have stated that "beast-like synchro their own thing yet" which honestly we know already.

They're both FAR better singles player than Momoshiro so maybe that's why. This can be seen in the their stats. We already see the doubles are already jam packed with doubles that are far better than 3rd court level doubles pair. They only need so many double players. Do you honestly believe that Oishi is better than Momoshiro or Kaidoh as a single player? There's many consideration that go into selecting the players. Konomi even admit in that same passage you give me that he think about the fans when he's picking the team. Fans=/=player strength.

Idk I wouldn't shame people for their opinions lol

Me neither. That's why I don't put their name or their opinion up lol. There's no need to do it.

 

[Hardy]

That's... fan theory. I admit it's well-thought. But it's not confirm like how WoK lost to 3rd court pair or how Momoshiro beat a 1st stringer with BJK.



Actually that interview confirm even more that's they are just 3rd court double pair level for now. It clearly have stated that "beast-like synchro their own thing yet" which honestly we know already.

They're both FAR better singles player than Momoshiro so maybe that's why. This can be seen in the their stats. We already see the doubles are already jam packed with doubles that are far better than 3rd court level doubles pair. They only need so many double players. Do you honestly believe that Oishi is better than Momoshiro or Kaidoh as a single player? There's many consideration that go into selecting the players. Konomi even admit in that same passage you give me that he think about the fans when he's picking the team. Fans=/=player strength.



Me neither. That's why I don't put their name or their opinion up lol. There's no need to do it.

I mean, every single time we saw the SSS it reflected something. Again, Ludovic vs Ryoma shows it the best imo. Dismissing it as just a fan theory is covering your eyes lol.

I don't understand that logic. What is there to support that Momo or even Taira himself are better at doubles than Chitose or Tachibana? For example, we know they played doubles together in the past, whereas Momo knew nothing about doubles until this year.

You can argue they are packed with singles players. Only Oishi, Niou and Marui are primarily doubles players (and then Yanagi as a reserve). I don't see the point in getting yet some more.

 

[-Ken-]

I mean, every single time we saw the SSS it reflected something. Again, Ludovic vs Ryoma shows it the best imo. Dismissing it as just a fan theory is covering your eyes lol.

The shot might get stronger because of SSS. But it doesn't show you NEED a hard shot for BJK to kill your enemy. There's the differences.

I don't understand that logic. What is there to support that Momo or even Taira himself are better at doubles than Chitose or Tachibana? For example, we know they played doubles together in the past, whereas Momo knew nothing about doubles until this year.

Really? Taira himself are playing doubles in the BOTH matches he ever play in the series. And he was playing as the 1st stringer. It doesn't make any senses for him to suddenly be equal to 3rd court pair that beat WoK. And Momoshiro manage to beat that Taira in doubles.

I'm theorizing but the low base stats is probably what will make Momoshiro weaker than them in singles but in doubles his partner might cover for him and let him actually hit off BJK. It's just a guess but we do know Momoshiro is capable of beating 1st stringer doubles.

You can argue they are packed with singles players. Only Oishi, Niou and Marui are primarily doubles players (and then Yanagi as a reserve). I don't see the point in getting yet some more.

If they're getting in, of course they are getting in as singles player over the doubles player. Their beast syncho as shown by Konomi is incomplete after all and without that they're not 1st stringer tier. You're only saying what I am saying. Momoshiro/Kaidoh is view as weaker partner in doubles than the one you list. Thanks for proving it?

Also Konomi clearly state fans as one of the reasons why he choose the player. Oshitari was pick as replacement for Oichi over Jirou who's THE #2. The selection is not based on pure strength but also fan service.

 

[Hardy]

The shot might get stronger because of SSS. But it doesn't show you NEED a hard shot for BJK to kill your enemy. There's the differences.




Really? Taira himself are playing doubles in the BOTH matches he ever play in the series. And he was playing as the 1st stringer. It doesn't make any senses for him to suddenly be equal to 3rd court pair that beat WoK. And Momoshiro manage to beat that Taira in doubles.

I'm theorizing but the low base stats is probably what will make Momoshiro weaker than them in singles but in doubles his partner might cover for him and let him actually hit off BJK. It's just a guess but we do know Momoshiro is capable of beating 1st stringer doubles.



If they're getting in, of course they are getting in as singles player over the doubles player. Their beast syncho as shown by Konomi is incomplete after all and without that they're not 1st stringer tier. You're only saying what I am saying. Momoshiro/Kaidoh is view as weaker partner in doubles than the one you list. Thanks for proving it?

Also Konomi clearly state fans as one of the reasons why he choose the player. Oshitari was pick as replacement for Oichi over Jirou who's THE #2. The selection is not based on pure strength but also fan service.

We've seen BJK several times, it has hurt its opponent on its own only once (Momo). The only other time is the implication that Golden JK + Kijin murdered Kaji.

Do you really think Momo is such an asshole to go around injuring players because it's fun or something? No right? Why did he hit his improved BJK against the Aramenoma guys then? It's completely out of character in 700 manga chapters.

Kirihara has only played doubles in NPoT (3 matches, all far apart), and yet he's an unstable crazy kid, it's hardly an argument. The matches you mention are back to back too anyway. Not saying Taira is equal, I literally said he solos, I just don't see what argument is there for him to be good at doubles.

It's not like Momo beat them alone nor that the gap between Taira/Hara and Washio/Suzuki is that massive. They are literally one point away and have the (second?) biggest doubles boost on top. If they can return Bakyuun they win.

Of course, why? Like I said, the coaches could had selected them trusting they would unlock it against tougher opposition (there's a chance they never played doubles together officially in the camp) or maybe as individual doubles players they are that good. It could be that the spots they freed went to Oishi and Kite. We don't know, the one jumping to conclusions is you.

I'm not saying what you are saying, lol.

Jirou is not the clear number 2 any more. Kenya, Hiyoshi and Shishido all consistently rank very high (higher than Sengoku even) and yet they didn't get called. Tachibana is not really popular at all afaik. But yeah we can play the fanservice card and use it on every single player too.

 

[SleepyStar]

Does anyone thinks Takeshi Konomi is wasting Jiro Akutagawa's tennis potentials? That dude is No. 2 Hyotei which I never understand. I don't think anyone knows Jiro's true potentials and powers, nor how strong as a No. 2 Hyotei tennis player he is. I'm pretty sure that nobody believed Jiro is No.2 when Konomi revealed it. Maybe he will participate in the U-17 World Cup Tournament and will take over someone's spot. He could be somewhere in S tier, A tier, B tier or C tier range. Someone commented that he is close to opening "P.O.P" or has "P.O.P."