Shoujo Nana by Ai Yazawa

[Himemo]

Re: [Shoujo] Nana by Yazawa Ai

A live-action drama series of Nana would be awesome. Get on that, someone!

I always thought Ren was being facetious with those comments. Kind of like, "Come on, Nana, what is going to take to make you happy?" Not things he was actually planning on doing. 'Cause I don't think there were any plans for Hachi to lose the child. Not that I'm saying he wouldn't have left Trapnest, because I think he might have.

I think Nana's not wanting to have children is less out of selfishness and more about her own abandonment issues. Clearly her mother's abandonment hurt her very deeply, and I think she's afraid to have kids because she's afraid she could end up causing them that much pain.

 

[goal]

Re: [Shoujo] Nana by Yazawa Ai

I agree with you Himemo. The reason Nana doesnt want children is because she still hasn't gotten over her mother abandoning her.

Also, I have found Ren's comment the most insightful. I would like to skim through the manga again and just focus on all the conversations Ren has had.I have always liked reading what he had to say and I can remember many important conversations he has had with Takumi, Hachi, Nobu, Reira, Yasu, Nana....Besides the times when he is kidding around, all his comments are very perceptive, accurate and wise. He was a very clever man.

It has been said that Takumi is very perceptive and can easily see/read people and what they are thinking. He is also a master of manipulation and calculation. Shin is also shown to be very cunning and perceptive. Yasu is shown to be a very smart, cool headed and take-charge of the situation guy. The last member of this "wiseguy club" is Ren.

 

[baboysai]

Re: [Shoujo] Nana by Yazawa Ai

Trans to Chapter 83 is out. grab it here.

Also, Celestial Delinquent has completed scanning chapter 82.

---

woah. that chapter just threw everything out the window. wtf. Hachi what are you doing. takumi what are you doing Nobu what are you doing

the only one acting right this time was Nana. surprisingly.

---

Chapter 83 Edited Manga is out. grab it here.

 

[Fujihara]

Re: [Shoujo] Nana by Yazawa Ai

C-B released? Well then this might be a bit late, but I did my own translation for 82. Take a look if you like

http://mangahelpers.com/t/fujihara/releases/11863

---

@himemo-- while Nana certainly has angst issues about her mother, there's never been any discussion about her confidence/lack of in her own ability to be a mother. :/ Rather, knowing that she could become a good wife to Ren if she wanted to is part of her complex.

The closest thing to such a discussion would be the scene following her own visit to the doctor when she's thinking about a "mother's instict."

"For instance, say I had Ren's child in me in me right now-- to feel that I wanted birth it not for Ren's sake, but out of my own will-- no, there's no way I'd feel that." I don't think there's any justification for a reverse-abandonment fear (or fear she'd abandon her own kids) from Nana, or if there is it hasn't been explored at all. The issue with Nana faced in that scene was this: Nana just can't feel the desire to have kids. This has always been the heart of the issue between Ren and Nana, that she just couldn't feel desire for the same things as him. Even knowing what he desired, and wanting Ren to be happy, she couldn't make herself want the same things.

Nana seems only capable of valuing sensations. :/ While she certainly has strong feelings for the people who are close to her, the things she values, esteems-- sex, singing, those sensations that make one feel "alive" seem to be the only things that are real to her.

I agree with you Himemo. The reason Nana doesnt want children is because she still hasn't gotten over her mother abandoning her.

Also, I have found Ren's comment the most insightful. I would like to skim through the manga again and just focus on all the conversations Ren has had.I have always liked reading what he had to say and I can remember many important conversations he has had with Takumi, Hachi, Nobu, Reira, Yasu, Nana....Besides the times when he is kidding around, all his comments are very perceptive, accurate and wise. He was a very clever man.

It has been said that Takumi is very perceptive and can easily see/read people and what they are thinking. He is also a master of manipulation and calculation. Shin is also shown to be very cunning and perceptive. Yasu is shown to be a very smart, cool headed and take-charge of the situation guy. The last member of this "wiseguy club" is Ren.

Takumi @ Ren: If you know you're the one fucking it up then why don't you change!?

But I agree with pretty much everything you said. Even when Ren jokes around his jokes can be surprisingly meaningful.


@Vol 83-- awesomeness. Maybe I'll post some more opinions later. In the meantime, the Edited Manga released is pretty good overall. Some places of the translation are not to my taste, but none of it is unreasonable and I can tell the translator probably has a very high level of Japanese. Therefore not sure if I'll bother translating it.

 

[goal]

Re: [Shoujo] Nana by Yazawa Ai

Fuhihara : Even knowing what he desired, and wanting Ren to be happy, she couldn't make herself want the same things.

Well said Fujihara. And thanks for your translation for chapter 82. I appreciate it.

Looking at chapter 83, its really interesting where every characters is turning to in order to deal with Ren's tragedy.I feel as if the story is building towards a climax!!
I enjoy the Takumi x Hachi plot the most and follow it with great interest. After they heard the news, they dont seem to be "together" anymore. It really makes me anticipate their exchanges in the future/upcoming episodes.

From chapter 83, I got the hint that Nana's only road to recovery is Hachi, to the point of dependency. Hmmmm.

 

[Fujihara]

Re: [Shoujo] Nana by Yazawa Ai

@goal-- you're welcome

I just wanted to say again that the translation team that did the Edited Manga for 83 on onemanga is quite good. Anyway, the meaning is completely correct, there's just a few places I feel like the English could have been made more colloquial or capture the connotations a bit better. The only line I really feel strongly about is this one:

(my interpretation):

Nana: Nobuo, you're not so backed up that you have to be serviced by an 8-month pregnant housewife right? After all you have Queen Kousaka Yuri wanking it outta ya every night.


xD <3 the Nana I love is back! <3

If you don't like the Brittish-slang "wank" you could replace it with the American "jerk" (like jerking off), though even being American myself I thought it sounded weird there-- so wank it is. Unfortunately both words have the connotation of masturbation, while the Japanese word shaburu しゃぶる、just refers to the motion of repeated rubbing. ie. you can　shaburu using your hand, mouth, pussy, whatever-- I leave it to your imagination (which Nana also does in this line).

Anyway, rather than "screw" or "fuck" I wanted a word that puts more emphasis on the motion itself rather than the action of love-making because it entails Nana's implied meaning that a man's needs comes from the simple action of having it wanked out (and also isn't specified to intercourse). xD

Anyway, this line has to be a lot more brash than in the current translation, because it has to be so over-the-top-crude that it disgusts Nobu. :P


Also for ハンパ　I prefer to translate it as "half-assed" rather than "unfinished business" (p.22) I get what they were trying to communicate, but "half-assed" is more literally correct and more in touch with the way Nana talks (haha).

I'm thinking the translation team might not have been very in touch with crude english slang, or just reserved in using it? I myself wouldn't hesitate to use it, especially when it fits the character's personality (though admittedly, making Hachi use the phrase "half-assed" would be weird, :P).

 

[sleepycat]

Re: [Shoujo] Nana by Yazawa Ai

WOW! Ch 83 is intense! Now I can't wait for Hachi to give birth cuz if it is a girl, then all the hypothesis about little Ren will be thrown out. After reading the situation between Hachi and Nobu and Takumi, I feel like its impossible for Hachi to have another kid with Takumi, thus my earlier assumption that little Ren might be Reira's and Takumi's. She could have had a premature baby.
Also, in ch 70, when she inquire from Takumi about little Ren, he told her not to worry about the little fellow. If Hachi is truly Ren's mother, I doubt she would have accepted that answer. And I believe Ren must know something too or he would not have spend so much time with Reira.
I can't wait for Hachi to just call it quit. I mean the marriage is no longer viable and there's definitely no love between them. I have a feeling that the minute Nana comes home, she will definitely divorce him and be a single parent. i just have to say that I am not Takumi's nor Reira's or Trapnest's fan.

 

[Fujihara]

Re: [Shoujo] Nana by Yazawa Ai

]WOW! Ch 83 is intense! Now I can't wait for Hachi to give birth cuz if it is a girl, then all the hypothesis about little Ren will be thrown out. After reading the situation between Hachi and Nobu and Takumi, I feel like its impossible for Hachi to have another kid with Takumi, thus my earlier assumption that little Ren might be Reira's and Takumi's. She could have had a premature baby.
Also, in ch 70, when she inquire from Takumi about little Ren, he told her not to worry about the little fellow. If Hachi is truly Ren's mother, I doubt she would have accepted that answer. And I believe Ren must know something too or he would not have spend so much time with Reira.
I can't wait for Hachi to just call it quit. I mean the marriage is no longer viable and there's definitely no love between them. I have a feeling that the minute Nana comes home, she will definitely divorce him and be a single parent. i just have to say that I am not Takumi's nor Reira's or Trapnest's fan.

Huh?

First of all, please remember this is a Japanese manga-- you can't take the english Edited Mangas literally. There is no "that fellow" in Japanese. The Japanese word in question here is "aitsu" which is partly used because of Takumi's informal speech, but partly reflects closeness through informality. Unlike the English "that fellow" that has distant relationship, being able to call the child "aitsu" has the connotation that Takumi and Hachi are VERY close to Ren.

Also keep in mind that the other characters (Yasu, Nobu, etc.) often ask Hachi about how Ren is doing, indicating her comparative closeness (as Ren's mother in contact with Takumi). While I can't blame a non-Japanese reader for making a mistake here, Japanese social patterns and expression of relationships take on a different (often more complicated) shape than western ones, and you have to understand that to pick up on the many subtle indications that the author uses.

If you could understand Japanese and read the manga in its true form while also having an understanding of the cultural context, you'd see that through the language and behavior there's strong indication of the family shape/relationship between Takumi, Hachi, Ren and Satsuki, even if they are apart. :/

Also Reira said "I should have hated [Ren]," which very strongly indicates that Ren is not her child. She should have resented Takumi making a family with a different woman, but she could not bring herself to hate Ren, meaning she got over the hurdle that they are not related.


In any case, even if you don't listen to me there, there are a few irrefutable facts that blow your bizarre theory out of the water:

1- Takumi is Ren's father, at the very least in position if not genetically.
2- Ren is older than Satsuki, which is irrefutable based on the fact that Satsuki calls Ren Onii-chan (older brother), or in any case Satsuki has an older brother.

So unless you know any other woman who have already given birth to children that are Takumi's, it is impossible for the child Hachi is carrying now to be Satsuki. It has to be Ren based on simple logic.

 

[duchess of dork]

Re: [Shoujo] Nana by Yazawa Ai

Hey everybody. In chapter 82, the final words of the chapter. Do you think those are Takumi's thoughts?

Is beloved referring to Hachi?

i think so too.

its takumi's and guess, logic tells he was referring to hachi... since he is the last character to be shown on the chap..im sure he is the one having that reverie, and the person in question cant be reira when reira is as good as 'slipping away' from her position [in the band, which she expressedly equate to as being by taku's side, or her virtual hold in takus heart.]

anyways, we can flatly see irony in that 'only the beloved remains' reverie if it is indeed taku and referring to hachi, because maybe of the flashforwards of reira and taku being both in england?it seems that 'remains' isnt the actual situation, since future seems to only have separation in store for them....

and uh, to note hachi seems to be slipping away too, with all that almost followed in chap 83 . (way to go, nana o!! love you for it).

when we get down to conclusion, seems the female characters are bent towards having emotional tendencies...while the guys are really just levelheaded...[well, shin is a bit of an exemption, since understandly he is still really young. kinda wavering towards his resolve about his issue with reira. unless, we say the words he shot at nana was just provocation]. nobu is also able to make wise decisions too, sometimes.

---

and oh, fujihara-san. i prefer your translation better... so crude that its so nana..

 

[sleepycat]

Re: [Shoujo] Nana by Yazawa Ai

Huh?

First of all, please remember this is a Japanese manga-- you can't take the english Edited Mangas literally. There is no "that fellow" in Japanese. The Japanese word in question here is "aitsu" which is partly used because of Takumi's informal speech, but partly reflects closeness through informality. Unlike the English "that fellow" that has distant relationship, being able to call the child "aitsu" has the connotation that Takumi and Hachi are VERY close to Ren.

In any case, even if you don't listen to me there, there are a few irrefutable facts that blow your bizarre theory out of the water:

1- Takumi is Ren's father, at the very least in position if not genetically.
2- Ren is older than Satsuki, which is irrefutable based on the fact that Satsuki calls Ren Onii-chan (older brother), or in any case Satsuki has an older brother.

So unless you know any other woman who have already given birth to children that are Takumi's, it is impossible for the child Hachi is carrying now to be Satsuki. It has to be Ren based on simple logic.

Hmm.. does that mean that the majority of the publishers in the us, won't be able to literally translate and interpret japanase manga storylines? Maybe thats the reason why I quit buying this series after vol. 7.

In any case it is just an assumption. My frustrated opinion though it might not correlate with the present chapters, that Reira might be Ren's mother with Hachi and Takumi taking care of him. You know, they adopt him. Even if Ren is just 1 day older than Satsuki, she can still call him big brother. All this stems from the fact that we have not yet seen Hachi and Ren communicating with each other. All of their "interaction" has been thru a third party inquiry. My theory might be bizarre but it is still plausible. If Takumi can impregnate Hachi so easily, what are the chances of him impregnating Reira?

The first time when I read chapter 70, just like any other readers, we all assumed that Ren here pertained to big Ren NOT the son. So, when Takumi told Hachi not to worry about Ren, my interpretation is that he is not her problem, and that she should stay out of Ren's business. Thus giving the assumption that he is not her child to worry about. You know, like stop being a busybody.

So, unless I see or read a line or page that shows Hachi and little Ren communicating with each other, I am just going to assume that they might not be related at all. And with this latest chapter development, how the heck could they still have another child?

 

[Fujihara]

Re: [Shoujo] Nana by Yazawa Ai

@Dutchess-- Thanks! Crude Nana is awesome

I'm 90% certain that the words at the end of chapter 82 are indeed Hachi. Hachi/Nana have always done the opening/closing words (except in the special chapters like Nobu/Naoki where they told their own stories), but Aizawa loves to have their words used over a scene that shows other characters that match them somehow. For instance, she'll have Nana talking about her worries over Ren while combining it with an illustration of Reira doting over Shin.

This is a technique in Nana I'm particularly fond of as it not only draws parallels between characters, but makes Nana/Hachi's outlooks take a broader perspective, human wisdom, and connects it to us readers as well.

@Sleepy-- There's no such thing as a perfect translation. There's certainly a lot translators can do, but for difficult parts, often you can only get a part of the meaning, or lose some connotations or accidentally add other connotations. The translation is not bad, it's just not Japanese.

In any case your reading of ch.70 is wrong. When Takumi says "don't worry about that guy," he's not saying something cold like "that guy isn't your problem" like you thought.

He was saying this: "Don't worry about that guy [because he's doing just find]"

Actually Takumi says this line in a way that makes it obvious that Hachi and Ren are close and that it's natural for her to worry about him so Takumi has to keep her updated. In other words that the extended meaning (adding in connotations) is

"[Of course you need to know about Ren since you have a strong connection but] Don't worry about that guy [because he's doing just fine]"

Again, if you read it in Japanese these connotations are very clearly indicated.

Actually, the first time I read chapter 70 I was a bit surprised by this conversation because it indicates Hachi and Ren (I was thinking big Ren too) having an even closer relationship than I thought they had.

That's because the conversation sounds like Hachi has a guardian relationship over Ren, which sounded it a bit odd. This is because the way Takumi/Hachi talk it sounds like her asking him about Ren is natural and routine, which sounds strange if it's big Ren. At the time I just chalked it off to Hachi and Ren getting closer in future chapters or that since they are kinda close it's not that weird (since Hachi worries about everyone not named: Yasu, Jun or Kyousuke). Now that we know about little Ren though, suddenly that dialogue makes a lot more sense.

I think you didn't notice what I was getting at-- yeah Takumi had sex with Reira, but Hachi is a mere 1 month away from giving birth, so unless you know some magical way for a woman to go through pregnancy and give birth in one month, there is no way for Reira to give birth to a child sooner. The first child on the scene has to be Ren since he's older. Therefore Ren has to be Hachi's child.

edit:

Chapter 83 p. 22:

Just to let people know, you could also translate Nobu's line as: "There's no mistake! Of course I still love her!"

edit 2:

Chapter 83 p. 25:

Mixed feelings about the last line "Is still the Nana that he loved so dearly."

Literally the line is more like : "Has not lost her Nana-ness."

While of course the first way is more "correct" by English grammar, when talking about literature I prefer to go for capturing meaning over grammatical/linguistic correctness. Crap, maybe I should just release my own translation . . . maybe later on this week.






In any case, what's really exciting it me is that Reira and Shin might meet again! (if Hachi takes Shin to go meet Reira) and Shin looks like he's finally being honest with his feelings for Reira again. <3 I want them to quickly get back together and be happy, even if the future shots don't reflect that it works out between them ;__; Also when checking ch.70 over again I ended up reading the special Takumi chapter which I somehow missed up until now. Little Reira is soooooooooo adorable! And knowing about the childhood she had with Takumi makes me like her even more. I really hope she can find happiness even after all the fucked up stuff and her weird relationship with Takumi. If she can't it's just so sad. Go Shin! Shiiin!!!

Also, the more they develop Shion's character, the more I like her. She's just so cool and mature and sexy and sophisticated . . . my ideal older babe. Sure she's just this perfect woman with no character flaws right now, but she's still hot. Damn. I have a real weakness for 大人の女性 (adult woman). Maybe that's why I'm such a fan of Shin + Reira . . . ? :*

 

[duchess of dork]

Re: [Shoujo] Nana by Yazawa Ai

fuji-san, count me in to the shin-reira shipping, although that preference also stems from the fact that without reira getting in the way, takumi-hachi will be a lot easier. that is what the fan in me thinks. anyways, as a reader id be just fine whichever ways the story would turn to.

and about that chap 70..we think alike. my first impression of it was that hachi was confusingly getting 'motherly towards big ren too?i thought that was only towards shin. it sounds absurd for her to extend her fancy mamalike concerns over someone so collect as ren.' but as later chapters revealed the existence of a lil ren, i was convinced it was lil ren she was worried about. i never questionned the translation..i just thought takumi using 'that fellow' 'that guy' referring to the ren she was concerned about was sounding just a bit casually dismissing as always. not really something to fuss about.

---

and yeah, shion is really cool...as cool as yasu she could stand on equal footing with him, that im really waiting for just how her part on the story would develop.i thought her introduction into the story is sorta promising.

 

[Elleian]

Re: [Shoujo] Nana by Yazawa Ai

Couldn't it be possible that Satsuki and Ren are twins? or did the visit to the doctor foil that one? i can't remember which vol and chapter it was at... and i'm terribly lazy to look for it heh.

 

[Fujihara]

Re: [Shoujo] Nana by Yazawa Ai

^I guess that's possible, but I doubt it because I think the doctor would have mentioned something that important. :S

 

[baboysai]

Re: [Shoujo] Nana by Yazawa Ai

Couldn't it be possible that Satsuki and Ren are twins? or did the visit to the doctor foil that one? i can't remember which vol and chapter it was at... and i'm terribly lazy to look for it heh.

I don't think so. that question was raised pretty much over the past few months (or years? has it been that long? ). The ultrasound would have revealed it. Besides, Satsuki and Ren don't really look like they're the same age. Also, if that were to happen, Nana's tummy would have been really HUGE by now.

---

In any case it is just an assumption. My frustrated opinion though it might not correlate with the present chapters, that Reira might be Ren's mother with Hachi and Takumi taking care of him. You know, they adopt him. Even if Ren is just 1 day older than Satsuki, she can still call him big brother. All this stems from the fact that we have not yet seen Hachi and Ren communicating with each other. All of their "interaction" has been thru a third party inquiry. My theory might be bizarre but it is still plausible. If Takumi can impregnate Hachi so easily, what are the chances of him impregnating Reira?

I agree with Fuji-san here. the thing is, Reira mentioned she wanted to hate Ren (little). This most likely is because Ren is a child between Hachi and Takumi, and most likely is the one who will mend all their marital problems and make them a family. Reira wanted to hate him because in essence, he's the one who took Takumi away from her, at the same time the very sight of him might remind her of Hachi all the time. However, she can't bring herself to hate an innocent child like him, especially when he's very talented and seems to like her a lot.

---

heh. I was backtracking with the posts, and I found an old question of mine that never got to be discussed.

QUESTION: what do you think the reason is why little Ren doesn't wanna go back to japan?

 

[Fujihara]

Re: [Shoujo] Nana by Yazawa Ai

^Because he's a blond elementary school kid, of course he's going to get picked on in Japan (yeah I know his hair color is probably only like that because it's a manga, :P).

To be honest, and I'm sure Aizawa did this purposefully, little Ren's demeanor seems to be a lot like big Ren (or even big Ren in flashbacks where he was little like in the Naoki story). He's quiet, not-needy, and yet still with a teasing sense of humor and a deep sensitivity for others (in other words he's completely 180 from his mom). He probably feels strongly about Takumi and Reira, and can (better than his mom) better tune into Takumi's actual need for companionship. I can imagine he must be a good nii-chan too (man I'd love to see some Satsuki-Ren interaction), and probably knows somewhere that his continued insistence to go to England provides continued pressure for the family to get together.

Anyway, I don't think there's much you can say about a character who's gotten all of like, 10 panel appearances ever. :/

 

[Himemo]

Re: [Shoujo] Nana by Yazawa Ai

Excellent question, baboysai.

From the little evidence we get, I think he seems to want to stay for Reira and Trapnest. He's going out with his guitar and makes a big point over how Reira is singing - and Reira only sings when Ren plays the guitar. And it seems like Takumi being in England has something to do with work/Trapnest. I don't know if that's him picking up on the fact that work/Trapnest/Reira is so important to Takumi - Fujihara makes a good point, he seems to be very sensitive to others' feelings like big Ren (although I think Hachi is, too) - or if he's gotten really attached to Reira for some reason, or if this is the spirit of Ren coming through somehow in a supernatural twist.

Poor Hachi. All the men in her life choose Reira/Trapnest over her.

 

[duchess of dork]

Re: [Shoujo] Nana by Yazawa Ai

@baboysai

thats father-son complex for ya. he's sided w/ dad, and the fact that he wasnt shown bothering to talk w/ mom must be because he found her nonsense in most ways..nah, just for laughs.

but yeah, i agree w/ those 2 above^, he was fiercely defensive when it came to taku and reira. maybe because hes got takus sensibility that seems to favor takus decision to stay in england?empathize w/ him and his dreams? and maybe he does have that foresight that his attitude can subtly pressure hachi to cross to taku's side of bridge..hes got takumis smarts [and rudeness] anyways.

 

[Satsuki]

Re: [Shoujo] Nana by Yazawa Ai

While not likely at this point, there's still a possibility that Ren and Satsuki are twins.

There have been cases before in ultrasounds where the second baby has "hidden" behind the other, leaving only one to show up on the scan. So that could be the cause with Ren and Satsuki.

I'm still rooting for twins, because I'm stumped as to why Takumi and Hachi would have a second child with the way things are going.

 

[baboysai]

Re: [Shoujo] Nana by Yazawa Ai

I'm still rooting for twins, because I'm stumped as to why Takumi and Hachi would have a second child with the way things are going.

there's really a possible reason for that, Satsuki. and this I've seen in many real life situations. when the marriage is dysfunctional and yet get pulled back together because of a child being born. In cases like that you get to really say, the baby was a miracle for both of them.

Anyway, I'm not forcing it, but it's a high probability that Hachi and Takumi learn to become a family when the baby arrives. And like I said, this might be one of the reasons why Reira wants to hate little Ren (but can't seem to do it anyway).