Shounen Naruto by Masashi Kishimoto

[M3J]

I wonder... would you be this defensive about Sasuke like you are about Naruto if someone came up with the theory with good explanations that Sasuke is closer to Rikudou Sennin and will attain Rinnegan without needing Senju DNA? It seems you get very defensive of Naruto, which I think is the main reason why you support this theory. Besides, you also treat your opinions like they're facts, like "Kyuubi is part of Naruto's power, the manga states so!" when the manga doesn't, and it's an opinion. You also say Naruto's a genius, as if it's a fact when manga has implied otherwise continuously, so I don't see what's wrong with us treating our views as facts.

 

[Roman]

Of course I would. I wouldn't be objective otherwise. What makes you think I support his theory? Just as you make your own scenarios about some things in the manga, you obviously make them about other people's opinions as well. I'm not being defensive, I'm merely presenting a problem in these forums. I called out his theory being shunned with no reason whatsoever. Your views aren't facts, they're opinions. Just as his theory is an opinion as well. A fact would be something that we could see presented by the manga.

 

[Impossibility]

From what I've read of the thread that's being referenced, I'd say his theory was criticised, or shunned as you put it, for legitimate reasons. Quite a few people have elucidated on those reasons. The theory is questionable, and the basis for it is what others think is the underlying problem with it. If someone posts a theory, fair criticism, based on what the manga has presented and reasonable rationale, of that theory should be par for the course.

 

[Roman]

Every theory is questionable if there isn't something that could back it up. But you discuss it, you don't dismiss it as if you have any proof of it being wrong. That's all I'm saying.

 

[M3J]

The main reason why I shunned his theory is because he's known to be heavily biased, and he has invented "facts" before to make Naruto look better and Sasuke look worse. You'd also shun theories from certain people who have shown to be very biased. I highly doubt you'd be this defensive or whether you are objective, given that you tend to defend Naruto a lot and treat your opinion as fact.

Manga has stated many times Naruto wasn't a genius, with proof like Naruto's difficulty in understanding chakra or kekkei genkai/bloodline limit. You either state he is a genius or is a genius in a different way, as if it's a fact rather than opinion. Again, there's no difference between how most of us tend to act.

 

[Roman]

The main reason why I shunned his theory is because he's known to be heavily biased, and he has invented "facts" before to make Naruto look better and Sasuke look worse. You'd also shun theories from certain people who have shown to be very biased. I highly doubt you'd be this defensive or whether you are objective, given that you tend to defend Naruto a lot and treat your opinion as fact.

Manga has stated many times Naruto wasn't a genius, with proof like Naruto's difficulty in understanding chakra or kekkei genkai/bloodline limit. You either state he is a genius or is a genius in a different way, as if it's a fact rather than opinion. Again, there's no difference between how most of us tend to act.

Why are you making this about Naruto? I brought the point of the thread in general. He may be biased, but the thread we're talking about is more or less how he views it and is pure theory.

The fact is that Naruto isn't a Genius according to manga. But his feats obviously are. Don't know how turning this to Naruto will help your argument in shunning something without basis in general, but sure.

 

[Schabrak]

You can supass great men by putting more effort into it or by being given great support. One doesn't have to a genius to reach great highs. Effort, friendship and victory, Those are the main themes of WSJ and Naruto does fit right into that.

 

[Roman]

I agree, although what he accomplished isn't simply surpassing, in my opinion. For example, perfecting Sage Mode or creating FRS are something along the lines of Genius feats to me, but I digress.

 

[REN KOUEN]

Why are you making this about Naruto? I brought the point of the thread in general. He may be biased, but the thread we're talking about is more or less how he views it and is pure theory.

The fact is that Naruto isn't a Genius according to manga. But his feats obviously are. Don't know how turning this to Naruto will help your argument in shunning something without basis in general, but sure.

naruto is certainly a genius

the fact that he could not produce a rasengan with just his chaakra control, yet had the ingenuity to develop his own complex method to create the shape manipulation makes him a genius in another way

so he may not be that smart, or disciplined but the guy can really think and adapt on the fly

naruto is certainly a genius

 

[Roman]

naruto is certainly a genius

the fact that he could not produce a rasengan with just his chaakra control, yet had the ingenuity to develop his own complex method to create the shape manipulation makes him a genius in another way

so he may not be that smart, or disciplined but the guy can really think and adapt on the fly

naruto is certainly a genius

How did this become about Naruto again?

 

[Prince Sasuke]

It's ALWAYS about Naruto OR Sasuke..

 

[REN KOUEN]

How did this become about Naruto again?

sorry bro

i must have missed something i though i saw you post something about naruto not being a genius by the mangas standards

 

[Roman]

sorry bro

i must have missed something i though i saw you post something about naruto not being a genius by the mangas standards

Well, he isn't. Don't want to get into it again, but just to clarify it so I don't end up praising him too much.

 

[Prince Sasuke]

Well, he isn't. Don't want to get into it again, but just to clarify it so I don't end up praising him too much.

Admitting a fact has nothing to do with how much you praise Naruto.

 

[Roman]

Admitting a fact has nothing to do with how much you praise Naruto.

My "praise" is a fact of the manga, but yeah, to each his own. And facts don't need admittance.

 

[Ryr]

I think we all know who are the geniuses and who are not. The difference is whether or not you would want to be truthful and admit it.

It's like the recent StarCraft 2 Global Finals at Blizzon, people were praising the loser instead of the champ. But deep inside everyone knows who played better.

Be truthful.

 

[M3J]

Even if the manga didn't state Naruto as a genius, the problem is that he has not proven he's a genius. Orochimaru has proven it with his research and quick thinking. Sasuke has proven it by getting top grades in almost everything in school and thinking of jutsu like kirin. Itachi and Kakashi have more than proven it with their way of thinking, strategizing, and their ability to understand emotions (at least Kakashi). Tobirama has proven he's a genius by creating at least three jutsu as far as we know, one jutsu that is the reason that Naruto is as powerful as he is.

 

[Roman]

There's a difference in opinions. I think it was pretty Genius of Naruto to bring the Sage Mode to perfection in ridiculously short amount of time.

 

[Schabrak]

gen·ius (jnys)
n. pl. gen·ius·es
1.
a. Extraordinary intellectual and creative power.
b. A person of extraordinary intellect and talent: "One is not born a genius, one becomes a genius" (Simone de Beauvoir).
c. A person who has an exceptionally high intelligence quotient, typically above 140.
2.
a. A strong natural talent, aptitude, or inclination: has a genius for choosing the right words.
b. One who has such a talent or inclination: a genius at diplomacy.
3. The prevailing spirit or distinctive character, as of a place, a person, or an era: the genius of Elizabethan England.
4. pl. ge·ni·i (jn-) Roman Mythology A tutelary deity or guardian spirit of a person or place.
5. A person who has great influence over another.
6. A jinni in Muslim mythology.

noun (plural geniuses)
1 [mass noun] exceptional intellectual or creative power or other natural ability:
she was a teacher of genius
[in singular]:
that woman has a genius for organization
2an exceptionally intelligent person or one with exceptional skill in a particular area of activity:
a mathematical genius

Naruto undoubtly fits into one or more of these definitions. A genius at converting enemies.

 

[Roman]

Yeah, I brought the same thing when we discussed about how to explain the word "genius". Apparently, a lot of people think that Genius label falls only to those who have a high intelligence, which obviously isn't true.