Shounen Naruto by Masashi Kishimoto

[Easter Bunny]

Re: Naruto Hangout Thread v.13 <3

~JOIN THE EASTER EGG HUNT~ ​

 

[M3J]

Re: Naruto Hangout Thread v.13 <3

A stray dog is different from a bijuu, who can regenerate. Nor will anyone use a stray dog to enslave, kill, or take over the world. A bijuu isn't a being, it's artificial made from chakra, and again, it can regenerate. Sasuke killing the bijuu would have been better because at the least, Tobi and Madara's plans would have been delayed.

But you can't eliminate the reasoning to do it all if you don't survive. While killing the bijuu won't stop bad people, it will delay their plans and increase the good guys' survival so they can actually try to eliminate the reasoning (which either won't happen or won't be eliminated for long term). Sasuke's way was better and made more sense because at least with his way, Tobi and Madara would not have gotten the power they currently have, and there'd be more time for the good guys to come up with a plan after the killed bijuu regenerated. Good guys and bijuu win, bad guys lose.

Instead, people are going for the illogical solution, saving chakra beings that can regenerate at any time, just to make the bad guys succeed.

 

[Rikudou King]

Re: Naruto Hangout Thread v.13 <3

If a being has conscious and emotion, how can you kill it? It's as simple as that. Will you kill a stray dog just because it doesn't have home?

Killing the Bijuu won't stop bad guys from coming. You don't eliminate means to do the chaos, you eliminate the reasoning to actually do it at all.

That logic makes no sense. Humans kill creatures with consciousness and emotions all the time without any issue. Meat, seafood, even plants all are conscious and can show emotions. And stray dogs do get killed if they lack a home for long enough. More importantly, if an animal endangers or harms a human being, they are usually put to death.

Eliminating the Bijuus may not stop the villains from appearing, but it does lessen the threat and danger they can inflict. Also, you're forgetting that a key factor in the series has been that the villages themselves have went to war over trying to possess the Bijuus, thus one more good reason to be rid of them.

 

[M3J]

Re: Naruto Hangout Thread v.13 <3

Also, you're forgetting that a key factor in the series has been that the villages themselves have went to war over trying to possess the Bijuus, thus one more good reason to be rid of them.

He did say to eliminate the bad guys or them from trying to go after the bijuu.

 

[Rikudou King]

Re: Naruto Hangout Thread v.13 <3

He did say to eliminate the bad guys or them from trying to go after the bijuu.

But in the cases of the villages, it wasn't one side "being bad" or such, but simply trying to protect and provide for their citizens, at least what we have seen.

 

[M3J]

Re: Naruto Hangout Thread v.13 <3

But when peace is established, there will be no reason to get rid of the bijuu as all villages will get along.

 

[Rikudou King]

Re: Naruto Hangout Thread v.13 <3

But when peace is established, there will be no reason to get rid of the bijuu as all villages will get along.

The villages will get along until they gain reasons not to get along, such as dwindling resources, fear, or a militant leader taking office, and then the Bijuus will be used once again as weapons.

 

[M3J]

Re: Naruto Hangout Thread v.13 <3

but Naruto and Sasuke will be able to create peace forever, so there's no need to kill the bijuu or be logical in this war!

 

[Roman]

Re: Naruto Hangout Thread v.13 <3

That logic makes no sense. Humans kill creatures with consciousness and emotions all the time without any issue. Meat, seafood, even plants all are conscious and can show emotions. And stray dogs do get killed if they lack a home for long enough. More importantly, if an animal endangers or harms a human being, they are usually put to death.

Eliminating the Bijuus may not stop the villains from appearing, but it does lessen the threat and danger they can inflict. Also, you're forgetting that a key factor in the series has been that the villages themselves have went to war over trying to possess the Bijuus, thus one more good reason to be rid of them.

It makes a lot of sense. Killing a stray dog just because you can and killing a stray dog out of necessity or just to put it out of its misery aren't the same thing. A stray dog rarely endangers a human being.

No, I disagree. Even if Bijuu don't exist, humans would find another way to make chaos. So it's not about the weapon, it's about people themselves. Something has to be changed within them and that's what Naruto's doing now.

 

[M3J]

Re: Naruto Hangout Thread v.13 <3

Using stray dogs make no sense as a comparison because stray dogs are not used to destroy, used as weapons of destruction, or can regenerate. The bijuu are completely different from stray dogs, so the comparison does not work. Gamabunta or Gamakichi are better used as comparison. To my recollection, no one has planned to use a stray dog to hurt or cause damage.

Besides, I'm pretty sure the only reason anyone has an issue with killing the bijuu is because Naruto said no, and because people don't like Sasuke. If Naruto was okay with killing the bijuu, no one would be complaining about Sasuke's plan, and if Sasuke was against killing them, people would complain about Sasuke's choice. No one cared about the bijuu being killed until Naruto said not to kill the bijuu, and Sasuke said they needed to be killed.

 

[Roman]

Re: Naruto Hangout Thread v.13 <3

It makes a lot of sense. Bijuu can be considered like friendly pets. Dogs or stray dogs can be trained to become killers. The vice versa combination of meaning is apparent. Even if the comparison doesn't work, the point of my post is apparent, as well.

Well, of course. People and shinobi are retarded. The world needed a person like Naruto who will bring order to this shitstorm. Besides, no one else had the experience with Bijuu as Naruto did. No one even thought about it since they were labeled as weapons of destruction or masses of hatred. Naruto was the only one with the balls to actually know them. For example, if Kiba got that same chance, he wouldn't kill them off as well. Or any other similar character. Anyone with a common sense, decency and a healthy morale can never kill beings who have no ill intentions.

 

[Knight of Stalwart Heart]

Re: Naruto Hangout Thread v.13 <3

I guess most,if not all the meat eaters are retarded unethical dirty scumbags.Besides the very person who you have as your avatar believed in killing a few to prevent a greater number of deaths.He probably had killed kids who knew nothing and he has certainly killed these guys.

Spoiler

And who knows how many like those who probably had lost their ability to kill people as they aged.Not every one is Chiyo or Hiruzen.But Sasuke would be a retarded demon pig for trying to kill some beings to prevent a greater number of deaths,if not something that can end the world.Yes the problem are indeed the humans themselves,But they aren't going to be all lovey-dovey.Some or the other guy would yield to his greed and try to live a better life by exploiting people abusing his power in whatever form it may be in.It will not be just because he is soo retarded that he just "doesn't understand people".But I guess this is how it's going to be in the manga

but Naruto and Sasuke will be able to create peace forever!

and everyone is going to live happily ever after,because Naruto! Things are that very simple.Oh why do I even bother.

 

[Rikudou King]

Re: Naruto Hangout Thread v.13 <3

It makes a lot of sense. Killing a stray dog just because you can and killing a stray dog out of necessity or just to put it out of its misery aren't the same thing. A stray dog rarely endangers a human being.

But the Bijuus aren't being killed "just because", they're being killed because of their history and the danger they pose.

No, I disagree. Even if Bijuu don't exist, humans would find another way to make chaos. So it's not about the weapon, it's about people themselves. Something has to be changed within them and that's what Naruto's doing now.

That's like saying that because humans will still go to war, we shouldn't try to get rid of nuclear weapons... Yeah, there will still be fighting even if the Bijuus are gotten rid of. But without the Bijuus, the world will still be a better place. Without the Bijuus, children won't be made into hated outcasts with terrible childhoods. Without them, innocent villagers won't be randomly killed whenever one of these children loses control. Without the Bijuus, another clan won't have to be completely eliminated just to control them, which is the point that Sasuke currently cares about. The point is, there isn't any reason NOT to get rid of the Bijuus. Even if the current generation turns peaceful, there's no guarantee that such a attitude will last and they won't once again be used as weapons.

 

[Roman]

Re: Naruto Hangout Thread v.13 <3

But the Bijuus aren't being killed "just because", they're being killed because of their history and the danger they pose.

That's like saying that because humans will still go to war, we shouldn't try to get rid of nuclear weapons... Yeah, there will still be fighting even if the Bijuus are gotten rid of. But without the Bijuus, the world will still be a better place. Without the Bijuus, children won't be made into hated outcasts with terrible childhoods. Without them, innocent villagers won't be randomly killed whenever one of these children loses control. Without the Bijuus, another clan won't have to be completely eliminated just to control them, which is the point that Sasuke currently cares about. The point is, there isn't any reason NOT to get rid of the Bijuus. Even if the current generation turns peaceful, there's no guarantee that such a attitude will last and they won't once again be used as weapons.

Their history and "the danger they pose" is specifically because of humans, not themselves.

Yeah, that's the gist of it. Nuclear weapons won't destroy humans by themselves. That's why the saying goes, guns don't kill people, people kill people. It's the perfect example of how we can correlate real life with this story. The reason they're benevolent and conscious are the sole reasons for them not to be destroyed. The guarantee depends on the humans, not the weapons, that's what's it's about. If Bijuu or or nuclear weapons are removed, and a human wants to wage war, he'll simply find another way to cause it. Therefore, it's about people/humans, not weapons.

 

[M3J]

Re: Naruto Hangout Thread v.13 <3

It makes a lot of sense. Bijuu can be considered like friendly pets. Dogs or stray dogs can be trained to become killers. The vice versa combination of meaning is apparent. Even if the comparison doesn't work, the point of my post is apparent, as well.

No it doesn't. Again, bijuu cannot be killed, and they can be used as weapons of destruction. Stray dogs can be killed, they cannot regenerate in any way, nor have they been used to kill people. The bijuu weren't friendly for a long time, given how two killed people and one was willing to kill its jinchuuriki to break free.

The point of your post does not exist because the bijuu are different from stray dogs. Even if the bijuu are killed, they regenerate, which would delay the bad guys' plans and allow the good guys to either stop them or prepare to take them down later on. This is a much better and logical step than "saving" the bijuu, but putting the entire world in danger. Realistically, Madara or Tobi would have likely taken out most of the opposition, and their plans would likely be achieved by now. Since it's a shounen though, of course we'll see Naruto's way succeed.

Well, of course. People and shinobi are retarded. The world needed a person like Naruto who will bring order to this shitstorm. Besides, no one else had the experience with Bijuu as Naruto did. No one even thought about it since they were labeled as weapons of destruction or masses of hatred. Naruto was the only one with the balls to actually know them. For example, if Kiba got that same chance, he wouldn't kill them off as well. Or any other similar character. Anyone with a common sense, decency and a healthy morale can never kill beings who have no ill intentions.

The world also needs someone like Sasuke to make the right decisions and not be entirely naive. Naruto's way would be a lot like Hiruzen's, under whose rule had villages betray Konoha or try to betray Konoha despite the treaty.

Well, that means Naruto can keep the bijuu from getting pissed off. "Hey guys, you trust me, right? Sorry, but we gotta kill you so Tobi or Madara's plans are delayed, but no worries! You'll be regenerated, and I'll find you!"

Anyone with common sense, decency, and a healthy morale would kill seven beings who can regenerate in order to save the world. It's not only common sense, but it's logic. Sacrifice the lives of seven chakra beings who can regenerate, or put the entire world at severe risk against a supremely overpowered enemy?

I'm willing to bet the only reason why you and Invader care about the bijuu being killed is because of Naruto and Sasuke, because otherwise I saw no complaint when the shinobi were trying to kill the bijuu until Naruto told Sasuke not to, and Sasuke refused to listen.

 

[Roman]

Re: Naruto Hangout Thread v.13 <3

No it doesn't. Again, bijuu cannot be killed, and they can be used as weapons of destruction. Stray dogs can be killed, they cannot regenerate in any way, nor have they been used to kill people. The bijuu weren't friendly for a long time, given how two killed people and one was willing to kill its jinchuuriki to break free.

The point of your post does not exist because the bijuu are different from stray dogs. Even if the bijuu are killed, they regenerate, which would delay the bad guys' plans and allow the good guys to either stop them or prepare to take them down later on. This is a much better and logical step than "saving" the bijuu, but putting the entire world in danger. Realistically, Madara or Tobi would have likely taken out most of the opposition, and their plans would likely be achieved by now. Since it's a shounen though, of course we'll see Naruto's way succeed.



The world also needs someone like Sasuke to make the right decisions and not be entirely naive. Naruto's way would be a lot like Hiruzen's, under whose rule had villages betray Konoha or try to betray Konoha despite the treaty.

Well, that means Naruto can keep the bijuu from getting pissed off. "Hey guys, you trust me, right? Sorry, but we gotta kill you so Tobi or Madara's plans are delayed, but no worries! You'll be regenerated, and I'll find you!"

Anyone with common sense, decency, and a healthy morale would kill seven beings who can regenerate in order to save the world. It's not only common sense, but it's logic. Sacrifice the lives of seven chakra beings who can regenerate, or put the entire world at severe risk against a supremely overpowered enemy?

I'm willing to bet the only reason why you and Invader care about the bijuu being killed is because of Naruto and Sasuke, because otherwise I saw no complaint when the shinobi were trying to kill the bijuu until Naruto told Sasuke not to, and Sasuke refused to listen.

You don't get it. You clearly don't get that Bijuu acted that way because humans treated them as tools of destruction. It wasn't them who created chaos, it was a human being who used them as tools. Who cares if any of them can be killed? Stray dogs or dogs in general can be trained to hurt people, but that was just an example.

Oh but it does, you just don't get it. They're different to you because you treat Bijuu as the cause of wars and chaos. But you're wrong. They're just means to do the war, the cause of it are humans, as I pointed out many times. Logic can never work in a peaceful world where people have affection and understanding towards one another. If you don't understand that, your system of value isn't properly built. Like I said many times, even if you do kill the Bijuu, humans wouldn't stop with wars and chaos, something you also don't understand.

Not everyone is perfect. Sasuke, like many others had a messed up life, so his choices and upbringing into adulthood were also messed up. That's why Naruto is awesome when it comes to personality. He had it the same, but he didn't cave in. And he found in his enemies reason and understanding, which is required to end the cycle of hatred and war.

I'm pretty sure that the rest of the shinobi world now trusts the Bijuu. Not just because of Naruto but because of the fact that the Bijuu acted in Alliance's favor, attacking Madara and trying to get rid of the world's biggest threat.

That's false and a complete contradiction. Again, you're not putting the world at risk if you leave the "weapons" alive or in sight. Again, if you kill those "weapons", another set would take their place. It's not the Bijuu who are a threat to humans, but humans themselves are the threat to their own selves.

No, not really. While the Bijuu are certainly a power boost to both Naruto and Sasuke, this has nothing to do with this. I'm simply having another opinion about people.

Guns don't kill people. People kill people. This pretty much sums this whole debate up, again.

 

[Invader]

Re: Naruto Hangout Thread v.13 <3

If Bijuu or or nuclear weapons are removed, and a human wants to wage war, he'll simply find another way to cause it. Therefore, it's about people/humans, not weapons.

Pretty much this. Hypothetically let's say Sauske killed all the Bijju and removed them from the mix (at least temporarily until they regenerate). Is that going to remove the hatred that is in people's hearts? How does that stop someone from going on a rampage and killing innocent people? Answer: it does nothing to prevent those things. The only thing removing the Bijju does (temporarily) is reduce the SCALE that a single incident may potentially represent. Someone with a Bijju would be able to cause destruction on a bigger scale - that's all. Reducing the scale from occasional incidents of mass destruction to millions of diffused, singular acts of hate & violence doesn't address the real problem.

So MURDERING the Bijju doesn't solve anything. All it does is heap abuse onto living, sentient beings with the lame excuse that you're doing it "for the greater good". Meanwhile there is still all the hate, violence, and every other problem that was supposedly going to be fixed by murdering those sentient beings. So what is accomplished by that evil act of murdering those living beings? Nothing. Absolutely nothing. Therefore Sauske would perform an evil act with no good outcome.

 

[M3J]

Re: Naruto Hangout Thread v.13 <3

You don't get it. You clearly don't get that Bijuu acted that way because humans treated them as tools of destruction. It wasn't them who created chaos, it was a human being who used them as tools. Who cares if any of them can be killed? Stray dogs or dogs in general can be trained to hurt people, but that was just an example.

They still attacked people and were still used and fought over to hurt others. But stray dogs can't cause widespread damage like destroying a huge chunk of a town. But that is not the issue here. Issue is killing the bijuu during the war so it delays Madara and Tobi's plans.

Oh but it does, you just don't get it. They're different to you because you treat Bijuu as the cause of wars and chaos. But you're wrong. They're just means to do the war, the cause of it are humans, as I pointed out many times. Logic can never work in a peaceful world where people have affection and understanding towards one another. If you don't understand that, your system of value isn't properly built. Like I said many times, even if you do kill the Bijuu, humans wouldn't stop with wars and chaos, something you also don't understand.

I agree with you. However, because the bijuu were spared, look at what's happening. Madara became the Juubi's jinchuuriki and is immensely overpowered to the point that he brought Naruto and Sasuke to the brink of death effortlessly and survived Gai's attacks. Even Naruto couldn't stop Madara from takin the Kyuubi from him.

Logic can work in a war, which is what's happening now. I understand far more than you, it seems, otherwise you'd at least be acknowledging the trouble caused by keepin the bijuu alive, even if you'd still be against killing it. Again, I refer you to the manga, from the point Naruto told Sasuke to stop to now. Luckily, plot saves the heroes.

Not everyone is perfect. Sasuke, like many others had a messed up life, so his choices and upbringing into adulthood were also messed up. That's why Naruto is awesome when it comes to personality. He had it the same, but he didn't cave in. And he found in his enemies reason and understanding, which is required to end the cycle of hatred and war.

I'm pretty sure that the rest of the shinobi world now trusts the Bijuu. Not just because of Naruto but because of the fact that the Bijuu acted in Alliance's favor, attacking Madara and trying to get rid of the world's biggest threat.

Naruto had it better than Sasuke because he never experienced his loved ones being killed. Naruto didn't find reason and understanding, he just spoke from his heart while fighting them.

Cool for them, but it doesn't change the fact that killin the bijuu would have prevented Madara and Tobi's plans from being anywhere close to successful in that time. Delaying was the best choice, like I said, because they can't get more power and are easier to beat, and even if they aren't, Naruto would have plenty of time to talk with the shinobi and make them stop usin bijuu to get power. Everyone wins, moreso the bijuu if Naruto succeeds.

That's false and a complete contradiction. Again, you're not putting the world at risk if you leave the "weapons" alive or in sight. Again, if you kill those "weapons", another set would take their place. It's not the Bijuu who are a threat to humans, but humans themselves are the threat to their own selves.

No, not really. While the Bijuu are certainly a power boost to both Naruto and Sasuke, this has nothing to do with this. I'm simply having another opinion about people.

Guns don't kill people. People kill people. This pretty much sums this whole debate up, again.

Yet, it's only the bijuu that Madara and Tobi went after.

It sums up your debate, not mine. My issue was that killing the bijuu was the right choice because it would have delayed Madara and Tobi's plans, not because they're the reason why the world can't achieve peace. I'm specifically talking about their plans, which required the bijuu in order to revive the Juubi again, which in turn gave Tobi and then Madara immense power.

Pretty much this. Hypothetically let's say Sauske killed all the Bijju and removed them from the mix (at least temporarily until they regenerate). Is that going to remove the hatred that is in people's hearts? How does that stop someone from going on a rampage and killing innocent people? Answer: it does nothing to prevent those things. The only thing removing the Bijju does (temporarily) is reduce the SCALE that a single incident may potentially represent. Someone with a Bijju would be able to cause destruction on a bigger scale - that's all. Reducing the scale from occasional incidents of mass destruction to millions of diffused, singular acts of hate & violence doesn't address the real problem.

So MURDERING the Bijju doesn't solve anything. All it does is heap abuse onto living, sentient beings with the lame excuse that you're doing it "for the greater good". Meanwhile there is still all the hate, violence, and every other problem that was supposedly going to be fixed by murdering those sentient beings. So what is accomplished by that evil act of murdering those living beings? Nothing. Absolutely nothing. Therefore Sauske would perform an evil act with no good outcome.

Kill the bijuu, beat Tobi and Madara, who are immediate threats, and then work on making people good. So yeah, plenty would be accomplished with that act. It's common sense, but I guess that's thrown out the window when it comes to Naruto and Sasuke. It's not like they'll kill the bijuu and be done with it.

Kill bijuu

Beat Tobi and Madara (more easily)

Work on changing people and creatin peace so the bijuu won't be used for power again

Bijuu regenerate

Peace is established


EVERYONE PROFITS

 

[Roman]

Re: Naruto Hangout Thread v.13 <3

Let's try this. For example, don't pay attention to the current crisis with Russia and Ukraine, but Russia does have nuclear weapons that could theoretically kill any country they want. In this manga, Russia is any village that has a Bijuu as a nuclear weapon. Now, why doesn't any country see potential threat in nuclear weapons that Russia holds? Because there's not a single person in Russia who'd use it against another country (although Putin might be the one). The same principle goes in the story with Bijuu and the villages. The comparison is exact and there shouldn't be any problems grasping this. In other words, by your logic, to secure the world from potentially going to war, the whole world would have to attack Russia. But that seems preposterous now, doesn't it?

---------- Post added at 09:27 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:18 PM ----------

Kill the bijuu, beat Tobi and Madara, who are immediate threats, and then work on making people good. So yeah, plenty would be accomplished with that act. It's common sense, but I guess that's thrown out the window when it comes to Naruto and Sasuke. It's not like they'll kill the bijuu and be done with it.

Kill bijuu

Beat Tobi and Madara (more easily)

Work on changing people and creatin peace so the bijuu won't be used for power again

Bijuu regenerate

Peace is established


EVERYONE PROFITS

This is your response to that post? You have a firm mindset that the Bijuu are solely responsible for people's hatred in their hearts. That's completely and utterly false. The immediate threat you're talking about is every shinobi in a respective village if that village wants to wage war. Do you get it? A single shinobi is a tool of war as much as a Bijuu is, if someone wants to start it. There is no peace as long as someone wants to start a war.

Your logic tells us that the extermination is the only way to go, which is ironic because that's the very idea that this manga wants to avoid and it's the sole reason hatred, wars and chaos lasted that long, along with the fact that it's the complete opposite of how the real life works.

 

[Exodi]

Re: Naruto Hangout Thread v.13 <3

Let's try this. For example, don't pay attention to the current crisis with Russia and Ukraine, but Russia does have nuclear weapons that could theoretically kill any country they want. In this manga, Russia is any village that has a Bijuu as a nuclear weapon. Now, why doesn't any country see potential threat in nuclear weapons that Russia holds? Because there's not a single person in Russia who'd use it against another country (although Putin might be the one). The same principle goes in the story with Bijuu and the villages. The comparison is exact and there shouldn't be any problems grasping this. In other words, by your logic, to secure the world from potentially going to war, the whole world would have to attack Russia. But that seems preposterous now, doesn't it?

---------- Post added at 09:27 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:18 PM ----------



This is your response to that post? You have a firm mindset that the Bijuu are solely responsible for people's hatred in their hearts. That's completely and utterly false. The immediate threat you're talking about is every shinobi in a respective village if that village wants to wage war. Do you get it? A single shinobi is a tool of war as much as a Bijuu is, if someone wants to start it. There is no peace as long as someone wants to start a war.

Your logic tells us that the extermination is the only way to go, which is ironic because that's the very idea that this manga wants to avoid and it's the sole reason hatred, wars and chaos lasted that long, along with the fact that it's the complete opposite of how the real life works.

You seem to be missing M3J's point. Or at least you're purposefully ignoring it. I'm not him, but this is what I glean from his post:

M3J is clearly referencing the war, in and of itself. He's even agreed with what you are saying overall. No one wants to murder beautiful, sentient creatures if they don't have to. In terms of the war, and using your examples, "Russia" already has most of the "nuclear weapons". Because in this case, there is a finite amount. "Russia" in this case is also only two people, who've already expressed a desire to use these nukes for their gain. You can't say everyone in Russia or any village is an immediate threat, because only two people (Tobi and Madara) have the means and power to acquire the nukes and use them as they see fit.

"Russia" (or Tobi and Madara) is also the only country with the immediate means to not only take the other countries nukes (i.e. Naruto and Bee), but have also expressed the desire to use those nukes to wipe out everyone, by merging all of those nukes together into one ultimate mega unstoppable nuke.

Now, let's say the nukes are happy little creatures and everyone loves them. Whatever, fine and dandy. But let's also say that someone can press a button and make all of the nukes disappear without having anyone die in the process, knowing beforehand that the nukes will return eventually.

I think what M3J is getting at is that:

1. It stops the immediate real threat, which is Russia (i.e. Tobi and Madara). If they can't merge the nukes, they can't create the ultra mega nuke.

He's not saying this is the ONLY method towards peace. It's a very real method towards immediate peace, in that it stops Russia from creating a mega nuke, and thus makes the chances of defeating Russia much, much easier. He's saying that it's a very logical step towards defeating Russia. I mean, Tobi and Madara. It just so happens that an added benefit would be peace, because if there are no more nukes, then there are no more wars over control of the nukes. Because who knows how long the nukes will be gone for? But people are fickle and nothing is guaranteed.


You both agree with each other, but it just so happens M3J can objectively look at both sides of the argument.
I think you can, too, but you seem to be arguing just for the sake of it.