Shounen Naruto by Masashi Kishimoto

[M3J]

I find these "interviews" to be BS, to be honest. They make no sense to me.

 

[Delbi]

IMO, in many ways Kishimoto is to Naruto what George Lucas is to Star Wars. Part 1 of Naruto was Episodes IV V and VI. And Part 2 was the prequel trilogy (although the high notes of Shippuuden blow away the high notes of Episodes I, II and III).

While it's obviously impossible, I wonder what Naruto would have been like if someone else had wrote the story and Kishimoto simply did the artwork.

When Naruto was simple, Kishimoto could write it, but the more complex it got, in terms of plot structure, character development and character interaction, he fell flat on his face a multitude of times.

 

[Rikudobito]

IMO, in many ways Kishimoto is to Naruto what George Lucas is to Star Wars. Part 1 of Naruto was Episodes IV V and VI. And Part 2 was the prequel trilogy (although the high notes of Shippuuden blow away the high notes of Episodes I, II and III).

While it's obviously impossible, I wonder what Naruto would have been like if someone else had wrote the story and Kishimoto simply did the artwork.

When Naruto was simple, Kishimoto could write it, but the more complex it got, in terms of plot structure, character development and character interaction, he fell flat on his face a multitude of times.

Regarding the plot itself, I'm quite discombobulated regarding how he dealt with the timelines. In the other thread concerning the Itachi/Orochimaru timeline for instance, Itachi indeed does not even look as a 13yrs old at all at that time.

Though, a point which I'd like to address is concerning Hagoromo. It was said in the manga that he and his brother sealed the Jūbi inside of Hagoromo himself. Yet later, it was said by Black Zetsu that they used Rikudō Chibaku Tensei to turn the Jūbi/Gedō Mazō into the core of the moon. Then how the hell did Hagoromo become its Jin if it became the core of the moon when Hagoromo & Hamura used the technique ?

My only explanation is that Hagoromo removed chakra from the Jūbi and since so much was taken, only remains of the Jūbi were left which resulted in the Gedō Mazō which in turn, became the core of the moon. In the meantime, Hagoromo absorbed the Jūbi's chakra. However this explanation does not seem to hold much truth since Yin Kurama affirmed that the Gedō Mazō was inside of Hagoromo and served as the catalyst which kept him alive after the extraction of the Bijū from him.

Sadly, it seemed that he did not care to explain this or most probably, he forgot.

 

[Impossibility]

Truthfully, Hinata is easier to write as a heroine. She has obvious sadness in her past, complicated family life, etc. as you mentioned. On the other side of the coin, Sakura was not the easiest to work with, given that she had no noteworthy roots or inherited abilities. But I dunno... part of me feels Sakura could have panned out as the heroine exactly because she had no way to distinguish herself at the start. It was refreshing. Instead of having a fancy pair of eyes or kekkei genkai or a bijuu, she worked her way up through sheer determination and skill. I found her ability to independently steel herself to keep up with the superpowered guys impressive. She rarely needed someone to egg her on and tell her "You can do it." She was gaining awesomeness in Part 2, but then her Sasuke obsession ruined her in the readers' eyes.

It wasn't easier to write Hinata as a heroine; she was entitled nobility, and Neji's existence would've constantly served as a rather painful reminder of that. Neji was also a superior version of her, in terms of abilities, that was already amongst their ranks. Neji would've been required to be offered up as a sacrifice much earlier for her to achieve such a role. There was also the fact that for her to take such a role would've required an almost complete rewrite of her personality. At the start of Part II, Sakura was on track to become everything the manga supposedly encouraged its characters to aspire to. Without any heritage to speak of, she'd worked tirelessly to become a kunoichi of note, she had a cause to fight for, she was close to Naruto, and she'd already been given a course for growth. She was a heroine-in-waiting, almost perfectly suited to carry on the will of Part I. I'm forced to wonder if his indecision on Sakura and Hinata was responsible for the precipitous drop in Sakura's involvement and her stunted progress in Part II. Quite frankly, the idea that Hinata would've served as a superior heroine is laughable.

 

[desin24]

Regarding the plot itself, I'm quite discombobulated regarding how he dealt with the timelines. In the other thread concerning the Itachi/Orochimaru timeline for instance, Itachi indeed does not even look as a 13yrs old at all at that time.

Though, a point which I'd like to address is concerning Hagoromo. It was said in the manga that he and his brother sealed the Jūbi inside of Hagoromo himself. Yet later, it was said by Black Zetsu that they used Rikudō Chibaku Tensei to turn the Jūbi/Gedō Mazō into the core of the moon. Then how the hell did Hagoromo become its Jin if it became the core of the moon when Hagoromo & Hamura used the technique ?

My only explanation is that Hagoromo removed chakra from the Jūbi and since so much was taken, only remains of the Jūbi were left which resulted in the Gedō Mazō which in turn, became the core of the moon. In the meantime, Hagoromo absorbed the Jūbi's chakra. However this explanation does not seem to hold much truth since Yin Kurama affirmed that the Gedō Mazō was inside of Hagoromo and served as the catalyst which kept him alive after the extraction of the Bijū from him.

Sadly, it seemed that he did not care to explain this or most probably, he forgot.

I always pictured So6P thing in this order.
Hagoromo and Hamura beat the juubi and seal it into Hagoromo.
Then he lives like that until he somehow and for whatever reason feels he's gonna die soon. So he uses the Creation of all things jutsu to make the 9bijuu out of the chakra that is in him and leaving only the Gedou mazou keeping him alive.
Then when he was able to move again he would use chibaku tensei to seal the gedo mazou away and then die? Or not? I'm not sure about this one.

 

[Holt]

I always pictured So6P thing in this order.
Hagoromo and Hamura beat the juubi and seal it into Hagoromo.
Then he lives like that until he somehow and for whatever reason feels he's gonna die soon. So he uses the Creation of all things jutsu to make the 9bijuu out of the chakra that is in him and leaving only the Gedou mazou keeping him alive.
Then when he was able to move again he would use chibaku tensei to seal the gedo mazou away and then die? Or not? I'm not sure about this one.

Yes that was supposed to be about right until kaguya's existence was introduced. The six paths CT is supposed to seal the gedo mazou while the bijuu chakra supposedly spills out. The databook (or movie) says that after kaguya's defeat, hamura went to the moon to guard the gedo or so. How then did the gedo exist in two places (moon and haguromo)? The jyuubi is non-existent without the gedo. Kaguya is non existent without the jyuubi (ok she did exist before that but now its some sort of prerequisite for her to appear). Sealing her should have made the gedo the core of the moon while the bijuu chakra is expelled from it. Well there weren't bijuu at the time so how did haguromo seal the chakra in himself? even more ridiculous is the fact that both he and kyuubi confirm that the jyuubi (including the gedo) were sealed in him till he got really old or something.

 

[KiSwordsman]

It wasn't easier to write Hinata as a heroine; she was entitled nobility, and Neji's existence would've constantly served as a rather painful reminder of that. Neji was also a superior version of her, in terms of abilities, that was already amongst their ranks. Neji would've been required to be offered up as a sacrifice much earlier for her to achieve such a role. There was also the fact that for her to take such a role would've required an almost complete rewrite of her personality. At the start of Part II, Sakura was on track to become everything the manga supposedly encouraged its characters to aspire to. Without any heritage to speak of, she'd worked tirelessly to become a kunoichi of note, she had a cause to fight for, she was close to Naruto, and she'd already been given a course for growth. She was a heroine-in-waiting, almost perfectly suited to carry on the will of Part I. I'm forced to wonder if his indecision on Sakura and Hinata was responsible for the precipitous drop in Sakura's involvement and her stunted progress in Part II. Quite frankly, the idea that Hinata would've served as a superior heroine is laughable.

that's actually a really good way to look at the situation. I looked at it that way too, until I had to also look at the way she ended up. It's true that Sakura came from nothing and rose to greatness. She was like Lee in that aspect, however, the one thing people expected her to get over or at least manage when she got older never came to pass, Sasuke. This will always be a black mark in people's eyes for Sakura (not everybody of course but you get what I mean). The fact that she could never grow up, or Kishimoto could never make the audience understand why her love for this guy was so unwavering. It had no substantial basis. There's nothing to pull from other than her being on his team. Hell, even Karin has a better reason than her. Something that was actually shown within the manga, and isn't going to have to be stuffed into a movie to make sense. Karin of all people. And while those positives of her character are indeed true, the negatives have to be looked at as well and as a whole it just makes the whole character seem a tad ridiculous. She could become this great ninja, but at the end of it all her final important moments within the story were throwing herself at the feet of someone showed her at best friendship, and at worst brought her misery most of the time. Yes, Sakura had a good basis to be a heroine. However, the conclusion did not do her justice.


Hinata on the other may have come from nobility and had a better version of her in the form of Neji. However, there's more story there. Hinata herself wasn't really entitled but was more or less the black sheep of the Hyuga clan. Her father indicated as such and so did Neji. She may have come from greatness but wasn't so great herself. There's more of a story for actual character development, to change her character into something completely different. So it could have made sense in her case. And in contrast to Sakura, she's actually given a reason for her unwavering love and loyalty to the main character. There is actually a story for her character, and she doesn't feel like the third wheel in a team full of demigods. Minus Kakashi. Yes, the original theme of the story was hard work over genius. But look at where we are by the end of it? The only two left that truly embodies that are guy and Lee.

 

[Fox666]

Why wasn't the Gedo Mazo destroyed by Hagoromo or Hamura?

 

[KiSwordsman]

Why wasn't the Gedo Mazo destroyed by Hagoromo or Hamura?

no, otherwise it would not serve as the moon's core. Hamura also wouldn't have had a reason to stay on the moon to guard it.

 

[M3J]

In terms of love, Hinata beats Sakura by miles because Hinata actually saw within Naruto and realized him for who he was, but she also acknowledged that he constantly worked hard and always put his best effort into anything, even though their interactions weren't much compared to Sasuke and Sakura. The main defense for Sakura and Sasuke is off panel. Like, we saw them getting along, but it's assumed most of their interactions happened off panel and were likely positive after Land of Waves, which is probably when Sakura fell in love with Sasuke.

But then, Ino still crushing on Sasuke. <_<

 

[desin24]

Yes that was supposed to be about right until kaguya's existence was introduced. The six paths CT is supposed to seal the gedo mazou while the bijuu chakra supposedly spills out. The databook (or movie) says that after kaguya's defeat, hamura went to the moon to guard the gedo or so. How then did the gedo exist in two places (moon and haguromo)? The jyuubi is non-existent without the gedo. Kaguya is non existent without the jyuubi (ok she did exist before that but now its some sort of prerequisite for her to appear). Sealing her should have made the gedo the core of the moon while the bijuu chakra is expelled from it. Well there weren't bijuu at the time so how did haguromo seal the chakra in himself? even more ridiculous is the fact that both he and kyuubi confirm that the jyuubi (including the gedo) were sealed in him till he got really old or something.

I always thought that the brothers were fighting the juubi and didn't know about it actually being Kaguya. I may mix things up though.

 

[Impossibility]

that's actually a really good way to look at the situation. I looked at it that way too, until I had to also look at the way she ended up. It's true that Sakura came from nothing and rose to greatness. She was like Lee in that aspect, however, the one thing people expected her to get over or at least manage when she got older never came to pass, Sasuke. This will always be a black mark in people's eyes for Sakura (not everybody of course but you get what I mean). The fact that she could never grow up, or Kishimoto could never make the audience understand why her love for this guy was so unwavering. It had no substantial basis. There's nothing to pull from other than her being on his team. Hell, even Karin has a better reason than her. Something that was actually shown within the manga, and isn't going to have to be stuffed into a movie to make sense. Karin of all people. And while those positives of her character are indeed true, the negatives have to be looked at as well and as a whole it just makes the whole character seem a tad ridiculous. She could become this great ninja, but at the end of it all her final important moments within the story were throwing herself at the feet of someone showed her at best friendship, and at worst brought her misery most of the time. Yes, Sakura had a good basis to be a heroine. However, the conclusion did not do her justice.


Hinata on the other may have come from nobility and had a better version of her in the form of Neji. However, there's more story there. Hinata herself wasn't really entitled but was more or less the black sheep of the Hyuga clan. Her father indicated as such and so did Neji. She may have come from greatness but wasn't so great herself. There's more of a story for actual character development, to change her character into something completely different. So it could have made sense in her case. And in contrast to Sakura, she's actually given a reason for her unwavering love and loyalty to the main character. There is actually a story for her character, and she doesn't feel like the third wheel in a team full of demigods. Minus Kakashi. Yes, the original theme of the story was hard work over genius. But look at where we are by the end of it? The only two left that truly embodies that are guy and Lee.

Yes, at the conclusion of the manga... things were absolutely ridiculous. I was referencing moving forward early on in Part II, possibly even midway through Part II. Sakura was still a far superior option, and was significantly easier to write as a heroine. Her only flaw as a character, a major one unfortunately, could've easily been avoided. It would've required zero effort for Sakura to get over her unhealthy obsession with Sasuke, at least from a writing perspective. Hinata had to contend with her apparent lack of ability, her ever-shrinking personality, and her extremely complicated heritage. The first would've been easy enough to address, the latter two would've required a whole lot of work to resolve. In the case of her heritage, it likely would've cost others...particularly Neji. After her battle against Sasori, Sakura was primed to be an outstanding heroine, unfortunately...that was shelved for apparently ridiculous reasons.

 

[HereNThere]

Yes, at the conclusion of the manga... things were absolutely ridiculous. I was referencing moving forward early on in Part II, possibly even midway through Part II. Sakura was still a far superior option, and was significantly easier to write as a heroine. Her only flaw as a character, a major one unfortunately, could've easily been avoided. It would've required zero effort for Sakura to get over her unhealthy obsession with Sasuke, at least from a writing perspective. Hinata had to contend with her apparent lack of ability, her ever-shrinking personality, and her extremely complicated heritage. The first would've been easy enough to address, the latter two would've required a whole lot of work to resolve. In the case of her heritage, it likely would've cost others...particularly Neji. After her battle against Sasori, Sakura was primed to be an outstanding heroine, unfortunately...that was shelved for apparently ridiculous reasons.

It could have worked. Her heritage shouldn't be that much of a problem, seeing as how she never could get the traditional techniques of the clan. I would have made it that, through her own hard work, she would forge her own path and created her own variations of Byakugan based techniques. Take what she learned from Naruto to the logical level and make her her own type of ninja separate from Neji.

 

[Impossibility]

It could have worked. Her heritage shouldn't be that much of a problem, seeing as how she never could get the traditional techniques of the clan. I would have made it that, through her own hard work, she would forge her own path and created her own variations of Byakugan based techniques. Take what she learned from Naruto to the logical level and make her her own type of ninja separate from Neji.

When I reference her heritage, I'm mostly referring to the awkward family history, her position as a main member with Neji as a branch member, and pretty much everything that entailed particularly in the greater context of the manga. The Hyuuga were mostly ignored after Part I. After Hiashi apologised to Neji, the manga managed to pretty much gloss over the fact that the clan didn't necessarily become any less f@*!ed up. The Hyuuga Clan in many ways occupied a space that was pretty much the antithesis of much of the manga's early talking points. If Hinata had taken on a greater role, it might've been a whole lot more difficult to ignore.

 

[Sharikaaria]

It wasn't easier to write Hinata as a heroine; she was entitled nobility, and Neji's existence would've constantly served as a rather painful reminder of that. Neji was also a superior version of her, in terms of abilities, that was already amongst their ranks. Neji would've been required to be offered up as a sacrifice much earlier for her to achieve such a role. There was also the fact that for her to take such a role would've required an almost complete rewrite of her personality. At the start of Part II, Sakura was on track to become everything the manga supposedly encouraged its characters to aspire to. Without any heritage to speak of, she'd worked tirelessly to become a kunoichi of note, she had a cause to fight for, she was close to Naruto, and she'd already been given a course for growth. She was a heroine-in-waiting, almost perfectly suited to carry on the will of Part I. I'm forced to wonder if his indecision on Sakura and Hinata was responsible for the precipitous drop in Sakura's involvement and her stunted progress in Part II. Quite frankly, the idea that Hinata would've served as a superior heroine is laughable.

I thought Hinata's circumstances, with all the drama, dejection, and clan history, made it easier for Kishi to write her as a heroine, given that he clearly can't depict more complex characters. The whole concept of the gentle girl born into nobility and struggling to prove herself doesn't feel very fresh, but it works. Keep in mind that a heroine that is easier to write is not necessarily the best heroine. A lot of people seemed to feel very sympathetic towards her, since she put in so much effort to find her ninja way despite being so timid. I was not one of those people. She needed reassurance most of the time. The best she could do was train so she'd be on track as a ninja. She didn't have any higher cause that made me feel she was reaching for the stars like anyone in Team 7. Yeah, she could be heroine as long as she continued to better herself, but not a memorable one.

Sakura was more of a blank slate. There was nothing too spectacular about her at the beginning, so she required more creativity. And Kishi was doing pretty well with her for some time, until he wavered. I won't repeat your comments on her, since I agree with all of them. She had a cause (helping Naruto, saving Sasuke, being their support, etc.) and took the initiative to ask the Hokage, Tsunade, to train her. That's a prime example of someone really taking the reigns of her life. Not only that - she passed with flying colors and didn't curl into a ball just because she couldn't keep up with superpowers. I thought it was truly ridiculous that Kishi switched heroines. Hinata isn't a bad one, but she pales next to Sakura even with her Byakugan. But if abiding by popularity is okay to him, then it is what it is.

 

[Holt]

I always thought that the brothers were fighting the juubi and didn't know about it actually being Kaguya. I may mix things up though.

Well even if that was the case it doesn't explain the gedo issue. Even without Kaguya being involved, the gedo was apparently in haguromo and also the core of the moon.

 

[M3J]

I thought Hinata's circumstances, with all the drama, dejection, and clan history, made it easier for Kishi to write her as a heroine, given that he clearly can't depict more complex characters.

I disagree, actually. Kishi did a great job in portraying Naruto as a complex character, and to an extent Sasuke as well. The entire Part I was complex, and then Part II went from simple to complex when Pain finally played a bigger part, and when Naruto had to confront his negative emotions.

Kishi can portray complexity well, and he has done so, but I guess the problem was that Kishi decided to go simple, for one reason or another. Just turn it into a battle of good vs. evil, and then good ideal vs. bad ideal. I thought the fights indicated how linear he became, given it was primarily good guy vs. bad guy, with bad guy taunting and good guy refusing to give up. For over a hundred chapters.

 

[Sharikaaria]

I disagree, actually. Kishi did a great job in portraying Naruto as a complex character, and to an extent Sasuke as well. The entire Part I was complex, and then Part II went from simple to complex when Pain finally played a bigger part, and when Naruto had to confront his negative emotions.

Kishi can portray complexity well, and he has done so, but I guess the problem was that Kishi decided to go simple, for one reason or another. Just turn it into a battle of good vs. evil, and then good ideal vs. bad ideal. I thought the fights indicated how linear he became, given it was primarily good guy vs. bad guy, with bad guy taunting and good guy refusing to give up. For over a hundred chapters.

Maybe I should have phrased that more specifically. In the context of heroines, Kishi can't write very complex characters. Sakura and Hinata both had potential to develop into multidimensional characters in Part 1, but their growth was stunted by the botched romantic plot. Sakura was all about Sasuke, while Hinata was all about Naruto. They eventually became more about the guys they loved. I think Tsunade might have been one of the few female characters that had decently complex, realistic characterization, but she was a secondary character, not exactly a heroine.

If we're in the context of other characters in Naruto, then yes, they had excellent characterization in Part 1.

 

[M3J]

Ah yeah, then I agree. Kishi stank up the whole complexity and development with teh females, which in turn spilled over to other characters and the plot.

 

[Erinyes]

Naruto Stage Musical's Cast Unveiled in Costume

The musical will cover the manga's story from the first to 27th volume. The production will include drama, songs, dance, and acrobatics.

The cast also includes:

Yuuki Kimisawa as Kakashi
Kazuhiro Hirakawa as the Third Hokage
Hidekazu Ichinose as Iruka
Tatsunari Kimura as Kabuto
Asahi Uchida as Zabuza
Miho Imamura as Haku

Other characters that will appear in the musical include Ino, Shikamaru, Chōji, Kiba, Shino, Hinata, Jiraiya, and Orochimaru.
[...]

Source: ANN (link above)