Voting Round 2 Natsu Dragneel vs. Reinhard van Astrea

[Nie Li]

Lol if people are saying that Reinhard is universal level due to vague world destroying statements then natsu is also multi-universal level as he defeated zeref who was actually going to reset the timeline by going into the past which would then erase the present timeline. And Selene in the latest chapter confirms that there are countless dimensions in FTverses. So zeref's timeline reset feat should be multuversal as he would have reset those dimensions too. And natsu who defeated zeref by virtue should also be multiversal

So imagine there's someone with the power to destroy the timeline with a very specific power. Now imagine you shot him dead before he can use his skill.

You killed someone who could destroy the world. Does that mean you're capable of the same? No. It just means that you're capable of killing someone who could but the confirmed implications stop there.

Also, complaining about people scalling to universal level from vague statements...

 

[Lambu]

Dude you are saying the same thing again and again. Destroying the world =/=destroying the universe. He destroyed the planet or everything on the planet and resets it later . If the Series was really universal then there would have been at least multi planet or star level feats in the series but no we only have vague statements of world destruction by certain characters. And the world here of course means the planet

Man you are overreaching too much.

You keep going on about cosmic feats...

I already said the "World" is much more than the land in which the characters move around (what you call "planet"). It has everything in existence including the Sun, Moon and Stars. Od Laguna makes all these things exist, its like a True God keeping existence together. Reinhard can eliminate all that, its something way above a planet.

Your only argument is that we dont know how big the Re:Zero World is, its dimensions are not clear. What Im saying is World is Universe in this context, just like when people speak about the DB World as the amalgamation of everything existing and not just The Earth.

He didn't accedentally stop time for a second when throwing some energy beam? Pfff, how do you expect him to be capable of physically destroying the universe?

He's only been shown using Reid thrice in the series (and one more time not revealed yet). I dont know whats the explanation behind the slash it just ignores the laws of the world, concepts like time and space included.

He would have easily defeated Regulus with it, but the sword would not recognize him as an opponent for some reason so the match was tougher.

 

[Arjuna]

Okay after seeing these arguments i checked Reinhard's stats in different forums I found out he is put at Mountain level + in Vs battle wiki and multi continent level in here

I haven't read the novel so my knowledge is based on what others are saying

 

[Raven]

So imagine there's someone with the power to destroy the timeline with a very specific power. Now imagine you shot him dead before he can use his skill.

You killed someone who could destroy the world. Does that mean you're capable of the same? No. It just means that you're capable of killing someone who could but the confirmed implications stop there.

Also, complaining about people scalling to universal level from vague statements...

that’s not how scaling works

 

[Lambu]

Okay after seeing these arguments i checked Reinhard's stats in different forums I found out he is put at Mountain level + in Vs battle wiki and multi continent level in here

I haven't read the novel so my knowledge is based on what others are saying

Arju I just explained what the novel itself says, if you will follow the VS wiki anyway despite being wrong then go with it, but it makes me explaining things kind of pointless...

His greatest feat is not oneshotting Puck but destroying all the world with him and then remaking it lol. Also his speed is close to light speed since he took on someone that moves faster than lightning, which is way above anything hypersonic (as that wiki says).

But if you are going to use those wikia with incomplete info to judge anyway then go ahead.

 

[Nie Li]

that’s not how scaling works

What isn't?
If you're referring to the last paragraph: I know.

 

[Blakestnight666]

You keep going on about cosmic feats...

I already said the "World" is much more than the land in which the characters move around (what you call "planet"). It has everything in existence including the Sun, Moon and Stars. Od Laguna makes all these things exist, its like a True God keeping existence together. Reinhard can eliminate all that, its something way above a planet.

Your only argument is that we dont know how big the Re:Zero World is, its dimensions are not clear. What Im saying is World is Universe in this context, just like when people speak about the DB World as the amalgamation of everything existing and not just The Earth.



He's only been shown using Reid thrice in the series (and one more time not revealed yet). I dont know whats the explanation behind the slash it just ignores the laws of the world, concepts like time and space included.

He would have easily defeated Regulus with it, but the sword would not recognize him as an opponent for some reason so the match was tougher.

You simply can't put re zero on the level of dbz. You're entire approach with this oh s faulty.

We can say that db has enough proof that puts a character on universal scale and i even proved it by simple scans.

Whereas you haven't proved that the world mention here is the universe or planet.

The series rezero d out doesn't have a feat above planet level

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 8, 2021, Original Post Date: Apr 8, 2021 ---

So imagine there's someone with the power to destroy the timeline with a very specific power. Now imagine you shot him dead before he can use his skill.

You killed someone who could destroy the world. Does that mean you're capable of the same? No. It just means that you're capable of killing someone who could but the confirmed implications stop there.

Also, complaining about people scalling to universal level from vague statements...

That's how scaling work my friend.

And as i said that not a single character has shown a on panel planet level feat forget about universe level

At least think man

 

[Valhalla]

 

[Arjuna]

Arju I just explained what the novel itself says, if you will follow the VS wiki anyway despite being wrong then go with it, but it makes me explaining things kind of pointless...

His greatest feat is not oneshotting Puck but destroying all the world with him and then remaking it lol. Also his speed is close to light speed since he took on someone that moves faster than lightning, which is way above anything hypersonic (as that wiki says).

But if you are going to use those wikia with incomplete info to judge anyway then go ahead.

From what I understand the problem is happening with the definition of the "World".Now World and Universe are used interchangeably in many series.There also in many series World is used to mean the planet they are living in.Like in our day to day life by "World" we mean our planet,like when we say "X player is the best in the world" we generally imply X is the best player in Earth.


Now the question is does the author simply mean entire universe or the planet they live(which I believe is flat in Re Zero)?


I checked Od Laguna in Re zero wiki it is not clear what it means by World

Od Laguna

Any kind of concrete knowledge regarding Od Laguna is generally minimal for most people in the world, including among accomplished magic users. Its exact location is unknown. If the world itself were to be considered a living creature, Od Laguna would be the soul of the world. In the past, alot...

rekingdom.fandom.com

But anyway this whole debate is wholly unnecessary as Reinhard wins this

 

[Asako]

Please take down natsu lambu
I trust you and you're already doing a good job

Our rezero meme hax need to pass this round

 

[Nie Li]

You simply can't put re zero on the level of dbz. You're entire approach with this oh s faulty.

We can say that db has enough proof that puts a character on universal scale and i even proved it by simple scans.

Whereas you haven't proved that the world mention here is the universe or planet.

The series rezero d out doesn't have a feat above planet level

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 8, 2021, Original Post Date: Apr 8, 2021 ---

That's how scaling work my friend.

And as i said that not a single character has shown a on panel planet level feat forget about universe level

At least think man

That is not how scaling works if you make an effort to use your head to differenciate that certain characters can have universal feats based on very specific haxes, and that defeating them in combat with different skills not based on the same hax does not imply that the winner can replicate his feats.

An example: Whitebeard from OP is said to be capable of destroying the world, and it makes sense because of his specific DF. Defeating him in combat does not mean the winner has the same capability.

You have a problem with a lack of planetary feats as if every series should scale like DB. Ironically, you have no problems scalling DB characters to multiversal level from statements despite none having solar system feats.

Definitely right back at you: at least think, man.

 

[Asako]

@Arjuna
We have reinhard vs the sun or what Lambu said

Thats actually a mistranslation, the author was comparing the Soul of the World/Universe to the Sun, as an infinite engine of existence that cannot feel animosity or feelings but just works continuously.

Then he said that Reinhard would be able to destroy it aswell... which is way way worse than the Sun

 

[Arjuna]

@Arjuna
We have reinhard vs the sun or what Lambu said

Again in Re zero wiki from what I understand that by World it means the planet

World

This page is dedicated to the rough overview of the world of Re:Zero, the place where Subaru wound up after being summoned at the very start of the series. The geographic shape of Re:Zero's world is that of a flat world similar to a diorama instead of a globe. All four edges of the world end...

rezero.fandom.com

But really this whole argument is unnecessary right now,if Reinhard faces a universal level warrior then we can discuss it but there is no need now.

 

[Asako]

Well I'm gone now to saving for my hot reinhard, a rezero Collab coming in sinoalice this month and boi I'm too broke for it, we just had smile collab and i was busy collecting all the characters... (And i did)

If you're curious about how the other look here



.... Honestly tho, I'm really sad that my job isn't in any of them so can't really use them as efficiently

I noticed in sinoalice collab the game hate minstrel job for them...
More sad noices as drakengard 3 the next collab and ofc no minstrel job in it
Like .. drakengard event literally gave us 4 Breaker (sword) jobs 2 paladin (spear )but zero minstrel (instruments)....
I wanna cry

 

[Raven]

Shouldn't the poll be closed by now, It started on Monday 2pm and now it's Thursday 3pm

 

[Arjuna]

Shouldn't the poll be closed by now, It started on Monday 2pm and now it's Thursday 3pm

Time is probably not over yet.Maybe few hours left.

 

[Raven]

Don't tell me it has to be manually closed or at this rate, Every vote post 2:32pm shouldn't be counted.

It starts to get fishy

 

[cracker]

You simply can't put re zero on the level of dbz. You're entire approach with this oh s faulty.

We can say that db has enough proof that puts a character on universal scale and i even proved it by simple scans.

Whereas you haven't proved that the world mention here is the universe or planet.

The series rezero d out doesn't have a feat above planet level

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 8, 2021, Original Post Date: Apr 8, 2021 ---

That's how scaling work my friend.

And as i said that not a single character has shown a on panel planet level feat forget about universe level

At least think man

You are right to be skeptical about his ability to destroy the re zero universe. IIRC Cell (Dragonball) said he was capable of destroying the solar system in one attack and it was a highly debated plot point for many fans. With alot of them coming to the conclusion he was likely bragging and overestimating his own abilities.

So it's quite valid to ask for more tangible feats/evidence sometimes.

 

[Blakestnight666]

That is not how scaling works if you make an effort to use your head to differenciate that certain characters can have universal feats based on very specific haxes, and that defeating them in combat with different skills not based on the same hax does not imply that the winner can replicate his feats.

An example: Whitebeard from OP is said to be capable of destroying the world, and it makes sense because of his specific DF. Defeating him in combat does not mean the winner has the same capability.

You have a problem with a lack of planetary feats as if every series should scale like DB. Ironically, you have no problems scalling DB characters to multiversal level from statements despite none having solar system feats.

Definitely right back at you: at least think, man.

You and your pal lambu are at it again huh.

Zeref had fairy heart which gave him infinite magical power. Fairy Heart is said to be capable of firing etherion a continent busting attack infinite amount of time. So what do you think will happen if zeref were to use a concentrated amount of infinite amount of magic power in single etherion blast. Ge would be able to create a universal or even multiversal destroying attack. And natsu defeated such a character.

Lol i have problem when someone wanks a series which has no aformentioned feats of destroying a planet, forget about an universe whereas dragon ball has consistently shown universe destruction power. Goku vs beerus, champa vs beerus.Zamasu becoming the entire timeline and Zeno erasing it, jiren shaking the world of void etc. And not to mention other statements by various sources.

I have no problem if a series have legit universal or multiversal level of power. But i have a problem when your pal wanks Reinhard to levels were he should never be

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 8, 2021, Original Post Date: Apr 8, 2021 ---

You are right to be skeptical about his ability to destroy the re zero universe. IIRC Cell (Dragonball) said he was capable of destroying the solar system in one attack and it was a highly debated plot point for many fans. With alot of them coming to the conclusion he was likely bragging and overestimating his own abilities.

So it's quite valid to ask for more tangible feats/evidence sometimes.

I mean it's understandable that cell is Solar system level because even weaker enemies like frieza is capable of destroying large planets to dwarf stars. And on top of that DB follows the logic of power escalation. So we can say that cell is solar system level. Hell Kid buu has shown to be capable of destroying entire galaxies.

But the thing here is that not a single character in re zero has shown to be able to blow up a planet, forget about stars or universe. There is only the mention of world destruction which csn also count as laying waste to the surface of an entire planet.

 

[Lambu]

You simply can't put re zero on the level of dbz. You're entire approach with this oh s faulty.

We can say that db has enough proof that puts a character on universal scale and i even proved it by simple scans.

Whereas you haven't proved that the world mention here is the universe or planet.

The series rezero d out doesn't have a feat above planet level

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 8, 2021, Original Post Date: Apr 8, 2021 ---

That's how scaling work my friend.

And as i said that not a single character has shown a on panel planet level feat forget about universe level

At least think man

You really should start trying to read better, I never compared DB World and Re:Zero World, what I said was that "World" means "Universe" in both examples.

Also you need to chill a bit.

From what I understand the problem is happening with the definition of the "World".Now World and Universe are used interchangeably in many series.There also in many series World is used to mean the planet they are living in.Like in our day to day life by "World" we mean our planet,like when we say "X player is the best in the world" we generally imply X is the best player in Earth.


Now the question is does the author simply mean entire universe or the planet they live(which I believe is flat in Re Zero)?


I checked Od Laguna in Re zero wiki it is not clear what it means by World

Od Laguna

Any kind of concrete knowledge regarding Od Laguna is generally minimal for most people in the world, including among accomplished magic users. Its exact location is unknown. If the world itself were to be considered a living creature, Od Laguna would be the soul of the world. In the past, alot...

rekingdom.fandom.com

But anyway this whole debate is wholly unnecessary as Reinhard wins this

That isnt even the Re:Zero wiki Arju.

Od Laguna is not a crystal, it is explained to work like a crystal refracting all existence from it.
The World of Re:Zero is not just the land, its everything in it. It isnt even a debate in the community.