Quarterfinal Natsu vs Gildarts

[Ilikeyou]

Without the power of friendship than yeah maybe gildart can win.

 

[SirSamuel016]

Also, we already know that Natsu couldn't have taken Zeref down without PoF BS which has no place in this Tourney, or at least shouldn't.

You're looking at after he was eviscerated there though, that was total PoF namaka fuelled power, no denying it there. The Dragon Force FDK Demolishing Strike though in 533, that was not PoF but his own power. It has the power to destroy a human body, even that of an immortal, so I don't see why a dude with prosthetic limbs would fare any better. Yes, Gildarts can crush moves like roars, but physical attacks will still have a lot of blunt physical force that will do damage and it's that which would do Gildarts in if he managed to at least neutralize the flames from one of Natsu's stronger physical attacks. This fight literally just comes down to who can out-power the other imo, and Dragon Force is the trump card to Natsu's victory here.

 

[NeoChrome]

Gildarts, with no considerable difficulty. PoF is ristricted so Natsu and his emotional flames might as well be an infant

 

[MonkeyD-Dragon]

People, you are taking Natsu's PoF in a tourney where it should be invalid. Natsu one shotting FH Zeref amounts to nothing since its obvious its not Natsu's power, but the power of the guild and friends as seen when his guild mark was shining.

Natsu, as far as we know, can't go DF on whim since the begin of the series, and only went DF when an outside force affected him (Eating Ethernano in ToH, Flame of Rebuke in OS arc, and Emotional trigger against Mard Geer), in the latest case of using DF against Zeref, he only did it after Lucy rewrote his book, so I assume that was the trigger to his DF, which he doesn't have here.

This means the strongest form Natsu has here is FDKM, which drive Gildarts into a high diff battle but at the end Gildarts wins.

 

[Arjuna]

People, you are taking Natsu's PoF in a tourney where it should be invalid. Natsu one shotting FH Zeref amounts to nothing since its obvious its not Natsu's power, but the power of the guild and friends as seen when his guild mark was shining.

Natsu, as far as we know, can't go DF on whim since the begin of the series, and only went DF when an outside force affected him (Eating Ethernano in ToH, Flame of Rebuke in OS arc, and Emotional trigger against Mard Geer), in the latest case of using DF against Zeref, he only did it after Lucy rewrote his book, so I assume that was the trigger to his DF, which he doesn't have here.

This means the strongest form Natsu has here is FDKM, which drive Gildarts into a high diff battle but at the end Gildarts wins.

It's different in Official Translations.

In CR Zeref was wondering about Natsu's flames. He was assuming that it was

-Natsu's flames
-Guild flames
-Sacred flames.

Natsu simply replied it's the flames of his emotions so it's Natsu's own power

#Shamelessly copied from @Debonair Raven 's post.


And another thing.Lucy writing The Book of END doesn't give him Dragon powers.It healed him.Even Wendy can activate DF due to training hard for 1 year.And Natsu also trained for 1 year and showed feats of activating DF without outside stimulus.

And another vey important thing.Lucy didn't write The Book of END before he activated DF.

 

[Tirl]

P.Attack - Gildarts >>> Natsu
M.Attack - Gildarts << Natsu
Defense - Gildarts >>> Natsu
Speed - Gildarts >> Natsu
Intellect - Gildarts >>> Natsu
Stamina - Gildarts <<< Natsu
MP - Gildarts >>>> Natsu

Gildarts >>> Natsu

Diff - 4\10 in real fight.
In stupidly PoF fight Gildarts win with no diff 0\10.

 

[MonkeyD-Dragon]

It's different in Official Translations.

In CR Zeref was wondering about Natsu's flames. He was assuming that it was

-Natsu's flames
-Guild flames
-Sacred flames.

Natsu simply replied it's the flames of his emotions so it's Natsu's own power

#Shamelessly copied from @Debonair Raven 's post.


And another thing.Lucy writing The Book of END doesn't give him Dragon powers.It healed him.Even Wendy can activate DF due to training hard for 1 year.And Natsu also trained for 1 year and showed feats of activating DF without outside stimulus.

And another vey important thing.Lucy didn't write The Book of END before he activated DF.

Spoiler

The Blaze of Savage Emotions, the name itself counts it as PoF.
Also, Zeref mentioned the Guild's fire, Natsu's fire and Sacred Fire before, then he said no and said its a flame of emotions, that means its not any of the 3 he mentioned before. Its not Natsu's fire, its his emotions.

As for the post about DF, we don't know exactly what the book did, he was in base for the whole fight, when the book was opened he went DF, then he stayed in DF , after Lucy rewrote the book he was in base, I think the book was connected to DF.
EDIT :

Spoiler: Natsu after the book was rewritten

You can't see any scales, he's not in DF after the book was rewritten.

 

[Arjuna]

Spoiler

The Blaze of Savage Emotions, the name itself counts it as PoF.
Also, Zeref mentioned the Guild's fire, Natsu's fire and Sacred Fire before, then he said no and said its a flame of emotions, that means its not any of the 3 he mentioned before. Its not Natsu's fire, its his emotions.

As for the post about DF, we don't know exactly what the book did, he was in base for the whole fight, when the book was opened he went DF, then he stayed in DF , after Lucy rewrote the book he was in base, I think the book was connected to DF.
EDIT :

Spoiler: Natsu after the book was rewritten

You can't see any scales, he's not in DF after the book was rewritten.

I agree it's POF.But he lastly accepted it was not Flame of Guild.That was my point here.I never mentioned it was not POF.

He was koed before the Book was written.So he will start from Base.

And why should an Etherious power help in DF.As we have already seen these two powers don't mix and they were killing Natsu.And will you say Wendy too has a Book of Etherious for her to go DF.

 

[Brandish μ]

In my opinion, PoF is intertwined with so many fights and feats in this manga that you cannot ignore every use of it. It's power in FT, and should be power in this tournament.

But I draw the line at Savage emotions, and I consider this a logical choice.

 

[Raven]

Natsu oneshots.

Sorry Gildarts :'( Natsu just has superior feats ^^

 

[Boomburst]

Natsu may have used PoF at the end but I see no reason to assume vaporizing Zeref in DF was PoF as well. I mean, just think about it logically.




Natsu in base: Exchanges physical blows with Zeref (as if anyone was expecting Zeref to be a master at CQC ), deals no significant damage, gets out of one of Zeref's spells only by going DF

Natsu in DF: Vaporizes FH Zeref's body, no glowing guild mark, Zeref comes back without a scratch, oneshots Natsu

Natsu in base afterwards: Overpowers a named spell from FH Zeref, glowing guild mark, burns his own arm, takes Zeref out with "flames of emotion"




Its very clear exactly where all the PoF took place during this battle. And, yes, the feats from Natsu at the end are a bit too ridiculous to take into consideration. But anything before that should be fair game.

 

[Axiomus]

The only person Gildarts has actually defeated this arc is the historia of God Serena. Which is to say Gildarts hasn't actually beaten any Spriggans. Whilst I have no doubts he can beat an actual Spriggan 12, his feats do not stack up to Natsu's. Natsu has beaten an actual Spriggan 12 member in Jacob and Neinhart. Neinhart specifically was enchanted to be immune to the effects of Brandish's magic. Keep in mind that Brandish's magic works on Dimaria. This means that Neinhart was probably stronger than your average Spriggan. These feats alone gives put him on Gildart's level.

Natsu's performance this arc goes above and beyond this level. Dragon Force allowed Natsu to destroy Zeref's physical body. Whilst this didn't defeat him because Zeref can reverse time itself, this attack would have likely erased (or at least KO'd) anyone that didn't possess the same ability. Which is to say, anyone that doesn't possess Fairy Heart and isn't immortal. With the power of the guild, Natsu was able to burn away at Zeref's ability to control time and render Zeref's body immobile. Keep in mind that Zeref had infinite magical power to back-up his magic, and that Zeref was immortal. Gildart's true heaven attack was considerably less impressive than either of these feats. August is considerably less immortal than Zeref, and did not have infinite magical power. If Gildarts' attack was on par with Dragon Force, then it would have erased August's physical body. If Gildarts' attack was on par with flames of savage emotions, then it would have burned (crushed away, I suppose) away at August's magic.

1) The flames of savage emotions make Natsu the second strongest in the series, next to only Acnologia.
2) Even excluding the flames of savage emotions, Dragon Force's FDK demolition fist is still superior to true heaven
3) Even excluding dragon force's FDK demolition fist, Natsu's FDK mode feats rival Gildarts' feats.

The counter arguments against Natsu don't seem to be reasons why Gildarts is stronger than Natsu. Instead, they seem to be arbitrary reasons why we should restrict various aspects of Natsu's power. To make this clear: The only thing that is restricted for Natsu is END's power. This is the only power that Natsu showed this arc that he cannot use again. Everything else is fair game, unless the almighty @Brandish makes another ruling.

 

[MonkeyD-Dragon]

I agree it's POF.But he lastly accepted it was not Flame of Guild.That was my point here.I never mentioned it was not POF.

Then lets not count that as a feat for Natsu.

He was koed before the Book was written.So he will start from Base.

He could've went back to DF if he could enter it on a whim, that was my point.

And why should an Etherious power help in DF.As we have already seen these two powers don't mix and they were killing Natsu.And will you say Wendy too has a Book of Etherious for her to go DF.

The book isn't for Etherious only, its Natsu's book, and Lucy said it has information about Natsu, meaning it might not just be Etherious stuff but also contain things about his Dragon Seed. You just said that the seeds were killing him, my theory is that each time there was outside influence the demon seed would back down and the Dragon seed dominate making him able to Dragonify to some extent(Dragon Force). Maybe through opening the book the demon seed was off for a while and he could enter DF, but not when the Demon seed came back after rewriting the book.

 

[Arjuna]

Then lets not count that as a feat for Natsu.


He could've went back to DF if he could enter it on a whim, that was my point.


The book isn't for Etherious only, its Natsu's book, and Lucy said it has information about Natsu, meaning it might not just be Etherious stuff but also contain things about his Dragon Seed. You just said that the seeds were killing him, my theory is that each time there was outside influence the demon seed would back down and the Dragon seed dominate making him able to Dragonify to some extent(Dragon Force). Maybe through opening the book the demon seed was off for a while and he could enter DF, but not when the Demon seed came back after rewriting the book.

That is not in the Manga atleast.It is your theory only.No evidence in the Manga.Dragon Slayers including Wendy have shown they can enter DF according to her will.And she specifically mentions that she can do that because she trained for a year.So Natsu who trained for a year why can't he do that?And he is the one who first entered DF onscreen in Tartaros without any outside stimulus.


And we have already seen how both seeds of Natsu broke.There is no more seed in his body.And "Flames of Emotion" is Natsu's power after all.It is not like that Natsu gained Magic Power from thin air.And as far as TOH Arc Simon had said if Natsu reaches the power of a Dragon he will burn away all evil.

And as another point @Axiomus made DF for Natsu is allowed in this tournament.So this discussion is needless as here he can enter it according to his will.

 

[Seraph]

Gildarts wins this no diff, you can see how strong he is against August (battle of Dilfs is best battle), Natsu would get killed by a casual nuke from August while Gildarts did stuff against August. Gildarts strokes his beard then turns Natsu to cubes, the battle is done. Natsu tries to attack and Gildarts Crashes, the battle is done. Gildarts can't lose.

 

[Invel > Zeref]

The only person Gildarts has actually defeated this arc is the historia of God Serena. Which is to say Gildarts hasn't actually beaten any Spriggans. Whilst I have no doubts he can beat an actual Spriggan 12, his feats do not stack up to Natsu's. Natsu has beaten an actual Spriggan 12 member in Jacob and Neinhart. Neinhart specifically was enchanted to be immune to the effects of Brandish's magic. Keep in mind that Brandish's magic works on Dimaria. This means that Neinhart was probably stronger than your average Spriggan. These feats alone gives put him on Gildart's level.

Natsu's performance this arc goes above and beyond this level. Dragon Force allowed Natsu to destroy Zeref's physical body. Whilst this didn't defeat him because Zeref can reverse time itself, this attack would have likely erased (or at least KO'd) anyone that didn't possess the same ability. Which is to say, anyone that doesn't possess Fairy Heart and isn't immortal. With the power of the guild, Natsu was able to burn away at Zeref's ability to control time and render Zeref's body immobile. Keep in mind that Zeref had infinite magical power to back-up his magic, and that Zeref was immortal. Gildart's true heaven attack was considerably less impressive than either of these feats. August is considerably less immortal than Zeref, and did not have infinite magical power.

1) The flames of savage emotions make Natsu the second strongest in the series, next to only Acnologia.
2) Even excluding the flames of savage emotions, Dragon Force's FDK demolition fist is still superior to true heaven
3) Even excluding dragon force's FDK demolition fist, Natsu's FDK mode feats rival Gildarts' feats.

Neinhart may have had enough magic power to resist haxes but that doesn't mean his durabliity was any less shit. God Serena may have been historia but he was giving non-pof Natsu trouble before Gildarts saved him
1. I've already explained why savage emotions won't be used in this fight
2. Why can't Gildarts just crash Dragon Force FDK fist? Has there ever been shown or stated to be a limit to what Gildarts can crash? Even August was mostly resorting to physical attacks against Gildarts. Plus that attack left Natsu exhausted afterward.

 

[Axiomus]

Natsu would get killed by a casual nuke from August

Natsu actually negated melt, which is August's largest nuke outside of Ars Magia. In fact, he negated it to the point that Lucy, Happy, and Mest also survived the nuke. None of the attacks August used against Oracion Seis managed to kill people far weaker than Natsu.

 

[Brandish μ]

unless the almighty @Brandish makes another ruling.

Lmaoo, no rulings will be made on PoF. It's up to people how they want to assess the manga.

And yes you're correct everything not restricted is fair game; to be clear on that.

 

[Ice devil slayer]

Gildarts one shot him without pof natsu is nothing that's how zeref was beaten

 

[Axiomus]

Neinhart may have had enough magic power to resist haxes but that doesn't mean his durabliity was any less shit. God Serena may have been historia but he was giving non-pof Natsu trouble before Gildarts saved him
1. I've already explained why savage emotions won't be used in this fight
2. Why can't Gildarts just crash Dragon Force FDK fist? Has there ever been shown or stated to be a limit to what Gildarts can crash? Even August was mostly resorting to physical attacks against Gildarts. Plus that attack left Natsu exhausted afterward.

No reason to believe Neinhart's durability was terrible in the first place. Jellal's attacks are top tier. So are Natsu's. Natsu's trouble with "God Serena" was comical, to say the least. Neinhart's winds actually managed to cut up Natsu and Brandish, both of which are stronger than the four emperors of Ishgar. God Serena's attacks did no such damage to any of Fairy Tail, including the weaker ones. Also, this was base Natsu.

1) Even without savage emotions, Natsu still has feats better than Gildarts
2) Any attack that catches Gildarts by surprise, he has to tank or guard from. Natsu has shown the ability to catch Gildarts off-guard with attacks before (exploding flame blade on tenrou, a claw swipe after Tartarus).
3) If there were no limits to what Gildarts can crush, then he would have crushed ars magia. I am willing to give Gildarts credit for whatever his feats show him capable of doing. Has there ever been examples of Gildarts crushing attacks as strong as demolition fist?