Natural Opponents

BlindMunkey

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Blackbeard is not Kizaru's natural enemy. He doesn't have any bigger advantage over Kizaru than over any other logia.

Some people really have a severe miscomprehension of the line - "not even light can escape".
It's not singling out of the light. It can be smoke, dirt, fire, water, wood...
Blackbeard just wanted to say that black holes suck in everything.

Whether he could really drag in Kizaru if he turned the other way and went lightspeed is a question. We've seen that Blackbeard's hole has a limited power.
i was thinking more along the line if BB were to spread the darkness around kizaru. would be he still able to move as like when he did to pwn scratchman apoo after he attacked kizaru? cuz from the looks of it he used light reflection?
 

Mugiwara_no_Jack

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Buggy would kick Mr.1's ass I think
 

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Buggy would kick Mr.1's ass I think
Nah, buggy cannot possibly hurt Mr 1. Not to mention buggy is immune to being cut, not punched. A good punch from mr 1 would destroy buggy.
 

ofir271

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Nah, buggy cannot possibly hurt Mr 1. Not to mention buggy is immune to being cut, not punched. A good punch from mr 1 would destroy buggy.
i agree buggy wont win-he cant really hurt mr 1 - but it will be hard for him to loose and his abillity take the edge of mr ability.

anyone remember the name of the marine that make metal rust? he is prbably the worst enemy for mr 1
 

Gecko Moria

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i just thought of it... Blackbeard would be natural enemy for Kizaru.
blackbeard vs kizaru
blackbeard just sucks him up since not even can light escape his DF. or im just totally off here?
darkness vs light. i guess it could go either way but blackbeard has advantage over all df users.
While Blackbeard has an advantage against DF users, I think that it's particular effective against the Logia users as Logia users are more dependent on their DF powers. For example, Eneru was basically powerless after Luffy's rubber overcame his lightning powers. And Ace was extremely surprised when his fire powers were nullified by Blackbeard. However, I think someone of Kizaru's experience would be able to recover faster (though he doesn't seem to have any other weapons on him) and even if Blackbeard is incredibly strong, how many hits from Kizaru's lethal laser can he take?

His name is Shuu and he is a Colonel.
Actually Shuu is a Captain, since he's in the Navy. Colonel is for the Army.
 

Lord Rayleigh

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Actually Shuu is a Captain, since he's in the Navy. Colonel is for the Army.
I agree that Colonel is an army rank. But it seems from the chapters I read that some marines were named as Colonels : either the translators seem to have not taken it into account or either Oda has decided that the marine of OP is different from the Navy of our world (after all, the marine of OP seems to be the only kind of military strenght of the WG).
 

ofir271

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its hard for me to accept bb as anatural enemy to kizaru just because if its true he is a nurural enemy to everyone. kizaru wont loose more then other DF users in this battle.
and about logia agaist BB - i think its more if the DF user got enough power without his DF - to heart BB
 

Gecko Moria

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I agree that Colonel is an army rank. But it seems from the chapters I read that some marines were named as Colonels : either the translators seem to have not taken it into account or either Oda has decided that the marine of OP is different from the Navy of our world (after all, the marine of OP seems to be the only kind of military strenght of the WG).
Probably a translation error by the translators (that's why you need a proofreader!). Although with reference to my Japanese dictionary, it is true that the Japanese word "Taisa" can refer to Colonel or Captain. But when referring to the "Kaigun" (Navy) it means Captain.

its hard for me to accept bb as anatural enemy to kizaru just because if its true he is a nurural enemy to everyone. kizaru wont loose more then other DF users in this battle.
and about logia agaist BB - i think its more if the DF user got enough power without his DF - to heart BB
I think people consider Blackbeard to be a natural enemy is Kizaru because the opposite of darkness is light. But yes, Blackbeard is a natural enemy to every logia as he can nullify their abilities. You misinterpreted "natural enemy" as being "weakest against something" which is not the case. And obviously Kizaru won't lose anymore to BB than any other DF user (in fact he would probably win IMO).

PS: ofir271, please use a spell-check or something. There are numerous errors in your writing that make it very hard to understand. Thanks :tem
 

BlindMunkey

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While Blackbeard has an advantage against DF users, I think that it's particular effective against the Logia users as Logia users are more dependent on their DF powers. For example, Eneru was basically powerless after Luffy's rubber overcame his lightning powers. And Ace was extremely surprised when his fire powers were nullified by Blackbeard. However, I think someone of Kizaru's experience would be able to recover faster (though he doesn't seem to have any other weapons on him) and even if Blackbeard is incredibly strong, how many hits from Kizaru's lethal laser can he take?



Actually Shuu is a Captain, since he's in the Navy. Colonel is for the Army.
oh its because you are assuming that BB cant block the laser and for the reason being might be ace vs bb fight. and he is no newbie when it comes to haki. im just saying it wouldnt be all that easy for kizaru to get rid of him and since BB recently got his DF im sure hes still learning and improving how to use it. and im more than sure BB would win in all out battle with kizaru. but thts just me
 

Gecko Moria

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oh its because you are assuming that BB cant block the laser and for the reason being might be ace vs bb fight. and he is no newbie when it comes to haki. im just saying it wouldnt be all that easy for kizaru to get rid of him and since BB recently got his DF im sure hes still learning and improving how to use it. and im more than sure BB would win in all out battle with kizaru. but thts just me
You are under the impression that I think Kizaru would easily defeat Blackbeard. Where in my post did I say that I say that Kizaru is more powerful than Blackbeard? There were actually some points in my reply that supported Blackbeard: "While Blackbeard has an advantage against DF users, I think that it's particular effective against the Logia users as Logia users are more dependent on their DF powers."

You obviously thought my last remark meant that Blackbeard could not withstand Kizaru's laser. What I actually meant was he couldn't take numerous hits from Kizaru's laser, most people can hardly recover from one. Blackbeard was hurt by a few fire attacks from Ace, and Kizaru's laser has been shown to be a lot more devastating (Pacifistas, for example, are equipped with Kizaru's laser).
 

Roarchu

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Pacifista and Brooke vs Ivankov

cuz they don't have hormones or anything
 

ofir271

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I think people consider Blackbeard to be a natural enemy is Kizaru because the opposite of darkness is light. But yes, Blackbeard is a natural enemy to every logia as he can nullify their abilities. You misinterpreted "natural enemy" as being "weakest against something" which is not the case. And obviously Kizaru won't lose anymore to BB than any other DF user (in fact he would probably win IMO).

PS: ofir271, please use a spell-check or something. There are numerous errors in your writing that make it very hard to understand. Thanks :tem
i agree about BB being a natural enemy to logias but at the same time he is a natural enemy to all DF users.

about my spelling im sorry but nothing i can do really - english is my second language+im dislectic -> a winning situation:D. hope my posts dont make your grammer theacher too uncomfortable
 

BlindMunkey

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You are under the impression that I think Kizaru would easily defeat Blackbeard. Where in my post did I say that I say that Kizaru is more powerful than Blackbeard? There were actually some points in my reply that supported Blackbeard: "While Blackbeard has an advantage against DF users, I think that it's particular effective against the Logia users as Logia users are more dependent on their DF powers."

You obviously thought my last remark meant that Blackbeard could not withstand Kizaru's laser. What I actually meant was he couldn't take numerous hits from Kizaru's laser, most people can hardly recover from one. Blackbeard was hurt by a few fire attacks from Ace, and Kizaru's laser has been shown to be a lot more devastating (Pacifistas, for example, are equipped with Kizaru's laser).
u did say.. "how many lethal hits of kizaru's laser BB cant take".. and to me it sounds like that you think BB would just stand there and take those hits. and i was saying as previously that you are assuming BB cant block those laser hits. if dark king was able to block kizaru because of haki. why certainly cant BB do it.
 

Yabe

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I think that we shouldn't take this too deep into the real fighting situation that involves avoiding/Haki or more techniques here, because this is the discussion about which DF power can beat which DF power in general.
I think we have to look at it as simply as Light vs Darkness which is totally the opposite abilities but we can never conclude for sure which side is a winner imo.
 
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Gecko Moria

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u did say.. "how many lethal hits of kizaru's laser BB cant take".. and to me it sounds like that you think BB would just stand there and take those hits. and i was saying as previously that you are assuming BB cant block those laser hits. if dark king was able to block kizaru because of haki. why certainly cant BB do it.
Dark King Rayleigh and Blackbeard are on completely different levels. I addition, we don't know if it was haki that allowed Rayleigh to deflect Kizaru's attack. Rayleigh didn't block the the laser attack, he deflected it by kicking Kizaru's leg away. You can't block a laser (not Kizaru's anyway) and hope it bounces off you; it will go through you. Blackbeard would probably just stand there because he's too confident in his strength (he didn't move to evade Ace's fire attacks much, did he?). Furthermore, he couldn't dodge Kizaru's lasers even if he tried. Kizaru's attacks move at the speed of light and Blackbeard has shown no sign of super-speed.

I think that we shouldn't take this too deep into the real fighting situation that involves avoiding/Haki or more techniques here, because this is the discussion about which DF power can beat which DF power in general.
I think we have to look at it as simply as Light vs Darkness which is totally the opposite abilities but we can never conclude for sure which side is a winner imo.
In order to compare the powers of two Devil Fruits we also need to consider who wields them. In this case, I think both sides (Kizaru and Blackbeard) have their strong points, but Kizaru would be the ultimate winner IMO. However, I will respect your judgement and stop the discussion on this particular topic.

[yabe]Thank you :nod
And just to clarify, I see your point but since the discussion was focused on the theorized battle between Kizaru & BB, I saw it's going to be a long debate (we also have a thread of half a hundred posts for that) we could lose the more simpler real purpose of this thread, so I thought we better let the details on BB/Kizaru end right here.[/yabe]
 
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BlindMunkey

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err alright its ended then. until i come across something else again. laters ^^
 

Umbra Wolf

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Pacifista and Brooke vs Ivankov

cuz they don't have hormones or anything
I guess you are quite right about Brook but I am not sure how a pacifista would fare against Ivankov. They are cyborgs not robots which means they are at least partially human und should react to hormons to a certain degree.
 

Zehahaha

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I think that the natural enemy of Ao Kiji is the bounty hounter ( the fat one in the filler, he have glasses and the others called him " Papa " ) who can increase the temperature of his body or something like that
 

Gecko Moria

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I guess you are quite right about Brook but I am not sure how a pacifista would fare against Ivankov. They are cyborgs not robots which means they are at least partially human und should react to hormons to a certain degree.
Brook has been shown to exhibit human behavior, despite being a skeleton (e.g. eating, drinking etc.) so he may be affected by the Hormone Hormone Fruit after all. I agree with the Pacifistas being cyborgs (i.e. part human) and may therefore be affected also.

I think that the natural enemy of Ao Kiji is the bounty hounter ( the fat one in the filler, he have glasses and the others called him " Papa " ) who can increase the temperature of his body or something like that
That would be Don Achino's Atsu Atsu no Mi (http://onepiece.wikia.com/wiki/Atsu_Atsu_no_Mi). However, Don is only a character in an anime filler arc therefore he doesn't count due to not existing in the manga. Ace and the Mera Mera No Mi is more likely to be Aokiji's natural enemy. You can find all the lovely discussion about Ace vs. Aokiji here.
 
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