Discussion New Roles and New Rules Suggestion Thread

[GrySun]

Submissions for new roles need to follow the next format in order to be considered:

I. [Place Holder Name]

II. [Affiliation]

III. [Short Description]

IV. [Long Description/Idea/Premise/Scope]

V. [Priority/RoleType/Interactions/other Specifics]

Spoiler: Examples of Approved roles

I. Troublemaker

II. Town

III. Can once per game make a Day phase lynch be the top 2 voted people instead of regular 1 top voted person. Every player has 2 votes but cannot vote the same player twice.

IV. PMs the host on the night before the day he wishes to use his power on. Host announces at start of day that the 2 top voted players will be lynched.
Everyone gets 2 votes that they can use on 2 individual players. Both can be moved once like usual. Example:
!votekill1 PlayerX
!votekill2 PlayerY
!votelock2 (locks on PlayerY).

Any other format is also fine as long as players specify who they are voting and if it's a new vote or they are changing their first one.

V. Doesn't have a Priority, happens at the end of night after all other actions. Doesn't target another player. Primary role.

Since it happens at the end of a phase, the player can be both blocked and killed to prevent it happening.

I. Psychiatrist

II. Townie

III. The Psychiatrist investigates one person per night phase to see if the player has a Secondary Role. They get a "Your target has a secondary role" if that is the case, and a "Your target does not have a secondary role" if it's not. The Psychiatrist does not find out the allegiance of the target.

IV. It's a counter for scum secondaries without outright revealing them, leaving room for guess work and player reading.

V. Priority 2, Primary Role.

Current roles Approved for testing here

Rules on including those in a game:

• A host can take any of these roles and test them in their game. Depending on results from testing the role it will either be included into the Role list or need more changes/testing.
• A host at the very least has to announce in the opening post of the game that new roles are being tested, or alternatively even more specifically reveal the roles that are being tested.

Link to the last update post with the roles that are either close to approval or were not approved: here.

 

[James Rye]

I think I'll go with A here as well. Santa shouldn't have to outmaneuver RNG on top of avoiding town and mafia attention, all things considered. Giving Santa agency turns them into party that can influence the game meaningfully, rather than holding their breath for 5 cycles and hoping for the best

Alright, fine, but then the presents needs to be balanced for each game and it is unfair if gifts like the bulletproof amulett are kept for last. Like adding the rule that the last gift has to be a killing or a "naughty" aka bad/negative one or something like that

 

[GrySun]

Alright, fine, but then the presents needs to be balanced for each game and it is unfair if gifts like the bulletproof amulett are kept for last. Like adding the rule that the last gift has to be a killing or a "naughty" aka bad/negative one or something like that

Why? Last gift is the one with which you win, basically the least important one. It‘s the earlier gifts that matter most. Forcing the last one to be killing with a rule seems to serve no purpose but extra fluff.

 

[Copy Panda]

Not to mention gifts need to be picked carefully anyway.

I think the most meaningful change following from A is that Santa can play around with role claims now. It'll be more skillbased now

 

[James Rye]

Why? Last gift is the one with which you win, basically the least important one. It‘s the earlier gifts that matter most. Forcing the last one to be killing with a rule seems to serve no purpose but extra fluff.

Because if there is only one good thing for townie or a gift that is dangerous for santa like an extra investigation ability guess what Santa gonna pick last meaning it becomes a meaningless gift after night 5?

 

[GrySun]

I'll conclude this with a 5 (GrySun, Vandred, Lambu, Xadyu, Copy Panda) to 1 (Farfalla) vote in favor of trying out Option A of Santa. Changed the role description as of now. May get changed more or swapped with Option B depending on how it goes in next games that have a Santa.

Because if there is only one good thing for townie or a gift that is dangerous for santa like an extra investigation ability guess what Santa gonna pick last meaning it becomes a meaningless gift after night 5?

That again goes back to being the host's responsibility when making the gifts. We'll see how it does in the next games the role is used, can always be changed more. My prediction is that it will make Santa more fun and also stronger, whether that's too much or just the right amount depends on presents picked and other setup of the game he's in.

 

[Copy Panda]

Because if there is only one good thing for townie or a gift that is dangerous for santa like an extra investigation ability guess what Santa gonna pick last meaning it becomes a meaningless gift after night 5?

Dude, you designed the role, if the host properly randomized it all, this was bound to happen anyhow

 

[James Rye]

Dude, you designed the role, if the host properly randomized it all, this was bound to happen anyhow

Yeah and it was because I knew those presents could be powerful or even game-changing that I wanted to prevent Santa from having full control over who gets what when. Because then if Santa had 4 townie bad gifts and 1 townie good gift guess what present will be last to handed out? Like I said imagine if Santa had handed over a BP amulet by accident to Vandred instead of the poison he knew would hand out that night, would have made the game a complete different game. It is why I made Santa Claus Blind Santa Claus when I first suggested him because it felt too powerful to decide who gets new abilities or not.

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 30, 2019, Original Post Date: Jan 19, 2019 ---

So after reading through my old roles I saw that Drug Dealer had quite a lot of likes but was rejected because ultimately it was too complicated with the control over the junkies and what not. But I liked that role and I think many might still like to be a Drug Dealer in Mafia as well. Thus I gave it another thought or two and totally changed it. xD

Drug Dealer stays a 3rd role (as compared to Townie and Mafia we still don't have that many 3rd roles) but what are we missing in the 3rd role pool? A blocker. But how can a Blocker win a game? By not being able to block the same target again!
Read what I mean:

Drug Dealer (3rd party)
The Drug Dealer hands out drugs to 1-3 people per night. Depending on the amount of drugs taken over the nights, the Junkie stage of the target will change accordingly and its effects will be done immediately. The Drug Dealer wins if he is still alive while only Junkies of stage 2 are in-game.

Junkie (secondary role)
The Junkie role gets added to every player who received a drug that was not blocked or protected from. The more drugs the Junkie receives the higher his stage will rise and the effects will happen immediately. The Player is unaware that he had become a Junkie.
Stage one: Junkie is blocked the same night he received the drugs.
Stage two: Junkie receives the Not Voter Disease for the next day phase. He cannot hand it over to other players. He loses the NDV after day phase is done.
Stage three: Jukies dies the same night he receives his third drug.

The idea is that the Drug Dealer is basically a "deadly mass blocker" with the problem that he can block every target only once and that once he drugged some people twice people will find out about him being in-game due the NVD happening to several people. The Drug Dealer should be seen as a strategic role aka will the DD play slowly drugging one person at the time before drugging 2 or 3 people at once or will he go in for the quick bucks and target the same 3 targets 3 times in a row (which usually means that the docs are alarmed after night 2 that 3 people received NVDs and might die next night phase if they get another drug) or will he try to get every player to stage 2 as quickly as possible but with him unable to receive the drug status, the amount of people he can hide becomes smaller and smaller with every drug batch he hands out every night.

I think with those chances the Drug Dealer will be an interesting and unique role to play. With his possible 3 blocks from night 1 he can wreck havoc if he gets lucky and hits active roles or the killer roles of mafia, townie and 3rd parties, but since he can block every target only once per game he is no game-breaker. If he could block indefinitely he would be.
With the Junkie stages (which reminds me of first use aka fixer, usual customer aka being in heaven due the drug and not caring about the real world aka not voting and ofc last stage golden shot = death) the hosts can easily check who got how many drugs while stage 2 is a mass alarm for ever player just like Santa's NVD gift was for everyone else in last game. This way Junkies become both the path of DD's way to win as well as his possible undoing as players would know that all stage2 junkies could be taken out as possible DD targets for good.
Either DD goes murder on town, which would still be fair given he would need 3 successful nights on 3 targets in a row meaning 3 deaths in 3 nights = 1 dead in 1 night just like a regular serial killer. Or he goes mass stage 1s before turning them into stage 2s in hopes he can avoid getting killed or lynched to win the game by having everyone be a stage 2 junkie. Or he stays low blocks one person every night, hoping they don't die and not drugged players die first so that the unaware junkies can be turned in 2 quick nights or best only one final night with 3-4 remaining targets, hoping the not stage 2 one either gets killed or lynched to only then at the very end have people worry about a DD being in the game.

And ofc a Barkeeper changing the Drug Dealers targets without his knowledge gonna be great confusion, including the Drug Dealer who suddenly doesn't know who got his drugs and who didn't. xD

 

[Crescent Jinx]

I really liked the Mafia apprentice role. It’s probably one of my favorite mafia roles at the moment.

 

[Crescent Jinx]

So in my future games with ES, Takuan, Asako, we will actually need to partner host with a council member to truly know what roles we can test in a game? We can can use mafia doctor now? What about mafia bodyguard? And the ones not on the approved list? Or can you really use any role but just tweak it for a game to test it? Example is the neutral roles. Shuffler was already used but it’s on the neural list and needs some minor tweaking. Could we tweak this roles and use?

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 5, 2019, Original Post Date: Apr 5, 2019 ---

Also would like the sleeper and death miller roles to be a secondary role as vanilla townie is too old school for the way games are made now where everyone has a role and there’s no vanilla townies in games.

 

[GrySun]

We‘ll need our hosts, mainly Vandred, to shed light on those post game

 

[Crescent Jinx]

Well I’m going to take a long break from playing mafia but will try to keep spectating. I’m already planning in my mind 3 games for the end of the year or next year. So sure there will be plenty of time to figure it all out.

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 5, 2019, Original Post Date: Apr 5, 2019 ---

As for other people

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 5, 2019 ---

I call dibs on @Lambu for one of my games if we have to have council members!

Lambuuuuuuuu, you love me enough to do that. Right?!

 

[Lambu]

Well I’m going to take a long break from playing mafia but will try to keep spectating. I’m already planning in my mind 3 games for the end of the year or next year. So sure there will be plenty of time to figure it all out.

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 5, 2019, Original Post Date: Apr 5, 2019 ---

As for other people

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 5, 2019 ---

I call dibs on @Lambu for one of my games if we have to have council members!

Lambuuuuuuuu, you love me enough to do that. Right?!

Sure, it should be fun

Im also taking a break of Mafia for a while so all the better. I'll have to quit the late April project @Tux

 

[Crescent Jinx]

Since Gry seems pretty chilled at the moment. Here is this write up...

In Fumetsu, there were two mafia apprentice roles tested - one per both 3 player mafia teams. Vandred and I chose this role because we could put more than one in the game. Thus creating a double study. Conditions were balanced between the two teams.

The first team consisted of:
Red Mafia Bomb
Red Mafia Escort
Red Mafia Apprentice - Offered: Mafia Boss, Mafia Detective, Strongman - picked Strongman

The second consisted of:
Pink-Purple Mafia Boss
Pink-Purple Mafia Escort
Pink-Purple Mafia Apprentice - Offered: Mafia Bomb, Mafia Detective, Strongman - picked Mafia Bomb

Both apprentices survived long enough to get their choice of upgrade. Brandish (Red Apprentice)ended up being delayed one night after wasting a kill on a BP.

Erinyes (Pink Apprentice) choose Bomb after her second successful kill on the third night. She had previously played a mafia bomb in OPM and carried her team pretty far. Experienced helped her choose which of the roles she wanted. Later in the game, she was lynched using her new bomb role.

We also offered her Detective and Strongman. Strongman for the BP that was in the game. It should be noted that Vandred wanted to more useful roles for later in the game but I wanted to do more exciting roles like detective. Wondered if people would choose it over more common or useful roles.

Brandish did get to upgrade after the third night and his second successful kill. He didn’t get the opportunity to use his new role but the choice between upgrades was fun. He choose Strongman because his kill on Bel had failed and he suspected her of being a BP. He almost choose the detective role because it’s flashy. (Ha! See I knew someone would fall for my trap!) And he said he wouldn’t have ever chose the bomb role.

It should be noted that no matter what the hosts offers to the player, a player will choose what the player wants to choose. So a host should not offer anything that might unnecessarily confuse a player when picking. Hosts need to offer strategic useful roles for their game (mason mafia, Bomb Defuser, Bomb, Boss, Strongman) and not just OP ones just because they want to see the shock value.

The two kill delay might be an issue. As you could have instances where an apprentice never upgrades. Also teams with other killers like assassin and janitor may not use their apprentice. Suggest maybe only 1 night to kill before upgrading????

The only apprentice upgrade that I would more like to see used in a game would be Mafia Mason, for the recruitment angle.

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 6, 2019, Original Post Date: Apr 6, 2019 ---

Also suggest the mafia mason be allowed for recruitment. Mafia masons are not really a thing any more since not every game has masons and almost any starting will be suspected of being MM or a lover. Plus with super masons as a thing now, could help to nerf the masons without use of the starters.

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 8, 2019 ---

Mafia Bodyguard (Mafia)
The Mafia Bodyguard can "save" another Mafia Member at the expense of his life similar to the normal Bodyguard. He picks a person each night and if the person is attacked then the bodyguard becomes the target instead.

Freezer (Townie)
A player that targets another each night for a pseudo-block. The night on which the action is used the target will be frozen in place and will be essentially blocked for that night from using their action but the action will only be delayed until the following night.

Hobo (Townie)
This player constantly hits up other players for actions. He has no idea what actions his target is using but redirects the action to a target he wants. Example, “I redirect Lambu onto James for tonight.”

Adjustments to these:

Sleeper (secondary role)
Hidden secondary role not know to the player, but allows the player to be recruited if killed. Upgrade of the vanilla townie version but can still be put on a vanilla townie role if you want.

Death Miller (secondary role)
Hidden secondary role not know to the player, but the player shows up as nontownie for investigations and shows up as a mafia member on death.

 

[Lambu]

I didn't get to play with M.Apprentice but its latest implementations, specially in Fumetsu Game, looked quite solid and interesting. Its an strategic role for the mafia that can make wonders if used right, with its drawbacks still there.

Its usefulness depends on the size of the mafia (preferably small) and the roles at the apprentice's disposition. As Cres said, the best results come with giving them strategically focused roles instead of simply "OP" ones (Assassin, Janitor, Detective...) since they would kill the purpose of the role itself, to choose depending on the circumstances, so Bomb, Strongman, Escort... would fit much better.

If implemented right it would be a nice addition to the role list.

As for the rest of the roles:


Mafia Bodyguard (Mafia)

- Not a fan of it, a Mafia losing a member is already a great loss for them so them having a member that exists to die for a more powerful mafia would only make sense in extremely convoluted games (like Umineko game, WoW), so out of those its just a weak mafia role to join the Gambler.

Freezer (Townie)

- Dont really like it either, messes with other players without much meaning behind it. If I understood correctly it just delays the action for the next night so the victim still has their night action for the following night. Just like M.Bodyguard it wouldn't really fit save in very specific situations, such as a revealed mafia that cannot be lynched at the moment, so in absence of a prostitute you can delay his action... too vanilla imo.

Hobo (Townie)

- I hate redirecting roles but I wouldn't blatantly say "No" to this one, it would need a lot of tweaking tho.

Sleeper (secondary role)

- Sounds nice for the player that gets it, since he's not a simple Vanilla, but in terms of balance it could complicate things a little for hosts. Would someone give a useful role to a player predestined to become mafia? If this became a thing and I wanted to implement it then I would give the sleeper a passive role anyway, because for active mafia support Traitor already exists.

Death Miller (secondary role)

The opposite to the previous one, this is a troll role. The purpose of a DM in game is to fool townies into making them think they caught a mafia when they didn't. When the player in question is vanilla townie then he can somehow see it coming and play while having the possibility in mind, while with this version the player would have no way of knowing he will be revealed as mafo after investigations or death... At least they can play a role tho.

 

[Organizized]

Don’t mind me, I just get Mafia abstinence whenever I’ve just played a game and need to still it somehow. So here are some silly roles I came up with while driving today.

Dodger (Town)
Picks one player at Night to dodge; if said player targets the Dodger, the targeting fails.
(Alternatively, if the other player is a Mafia whose team targets the Dodger, the targeting fails?)

Kidnapper (Town)
Picks one person per Night to kidnap. The targeted player is protected from other Night Actions, but also fails to perform their own Night action. If the target is a Mafia, the kidnapping fails.

Mercenary (Undecided)
At Night gets one guess at who is a Mafia Boss or Serial Killer. If correctly guessing a Mafia Boss, joins that Boss’ team. If correctly guessing a Serial Killer, they become Mentor/Mentee.
(If the Mercenary dies as a Mentee, the SK/Mentor goes back to being a Serial Killer.
(I know, this would be a nightmare to include, balance-wise )

Witness (Town)
Can target one player at Night, and if said player dies, the Witness finds out what caused the death (Mafia kill, Insane Doctor, PGO, “Hider death by proxy”, etc) but not who did it.
EDIT: Just realized there already is Mortician who has this power but better..

Surgeon (Town)
Can save targets at Night like a regular Doctor, or try to save one person who was lynched the Day before. This ability has a 50/50 success rate, and if used (whether successful or failed) the Surgeon cannot use any Night action the following Night (two Nights? Idk)

Judas (Mafia)
Like a regular Traitor, but also knows who is Jesus, and if Judas is recruited, Jesus dies and is unable to resurrect.

Inigo Montoya / Inigo Montoya’s Father (Secondary)
If Inigo Montoya’s Father dies by lynching, the other person learns they are Inigo Montoya and can - at any point in the game and only once - choose one of the people who voted for him and kill them at Day (saying “Hello, my name is Inigo Montoya. You killed my father. Prepare to die!”)
If Inigo Montoya’s Father dies at Night, Inigo Montoya can each Night try to kill who he thinks killed him, and if he guesses correctly his target dies (if he’s wrong, nothing happens).
During the time Inigo Montoya is Inigo Montoya, his normal role can not be used, because Inigo Montoya only cares about avenging his father.

Okay, so some of these may be joke ones.
Like I said, I just came up with these during the day for fun, haven’t really tried to hypothetically apply them into any real situations (but that’s how I came up with previous roles which are now in the game, so ).

Also, I may or may not have rewatched The Princess Bride last night..

 

[Crescent Jinx]

Inigo Montoya / Inigo Montoya’s Father (Secondary)
If Inigo Montoya’s Father dies by lynching, the other person learns they are Inigo Montoya and can - at any point in the game and only once - choose one of the people who voted for him and kill them at Day (saying “Hello, my name is Inigo Montoya. You killed my father. Prepare to die!”)
If Inigo Montoya’s Father dies at Night, Inigo Montoya can each Night try to kill who he thinks killed him, and if he guesses correctly his target dies (if he’s wrong, nothing happens).
During the time Inigo Montoya is Inigo Montoya, his normal role can not be used, because Inigo Montoya only cares about avenging his father.

Why is this so awesome? Although it seems to be more of a joke. I think it needs to be tweaked somewhat. Maybe you have two players who get secondary roles of Inigo and his father. Should one character die then the other get the opportunity to duel the potential killer. If they guessed the killer right then the killer dies, if they guessed wrong then they die in the duel. Sort of a lover and cowboy.

Sleeper (secondary role)

- Sounds nice for the player that gets it, since he's not a simple Vanilla, but in terms of balance it could complicate things a little for hosts. Would someone give a useful role to a player predestined to become mafia? If this became a thing and I wanted to implement it then I would give the sleeper a passive role anyway, because for active mafia support Traitor already exists.

It does sound nice for the player who gets it. And as for pairing it up with OP roles. They do that with traitor all the time But a true traitor is so OP with getting a list of all the mafia names at the beginning. Sleeper is a calmer recruiting role where they don’t know who the enemy is. If we had roles where we got more vanilla townies mixed it, then role would be great. But lately every game moves not only away from this but with more outgoing mechanisms that are hard to pair with vanilla townie, sleeper, and death miller.

That’s why traitor is usually used more beccasse it’s more versatile and can be used with more roles. But a Traitor gets names, so depending on who gets that role, it could be very bad for the mafia. What if a newplayer got it and slipped up? And according to the rules, it’s pretty easy to figure out if you get one name vs a group of names whether you are a real one. Unless Hosts do befunkery like pairing you up with a lone mafia or making a traitor mechanism where everyone gets one name. An update on the sleeper role would bridge the current gap we have on the sleeper/traitor.

Death Miller (secondary role)

The opposite to the previous one, this is a troll role. The purpose of a DM in game is to fool townies into making them think they caught a mafia when they didn't. When the player in question is vanilla townie then he can somehow see it coming and play while having the possibility in mind, while with this version the player would have no way of knowing he will be revealed as mafo after investigations or death... At least they can play a role tho.

We did just have a mechanism where if Juviii got caught then she would have appeared as the person she killed. Seriously, the original purpose of the DM was to fool the town. It was a trollish role that nerfs the town. But it’s so obvious now. Game people simply adjust their play to whether a vanilla townie is in the game. Because at some point, if that player dies and they will likely show up as normal mafia member then it was via recruitment or as death miller. So there isn’t much fooling happening anymore. Plus the death Miller is just not a fun role. Like you said, at least they get to play with the role. I was it once in a speed game. There is no action tied to it and you’re just ducking around hoping that you don’t get killed since your death brings very little to the town. Back in the day before Brandish and Bel could go whole game as DM without being killed, the DM usually was lynched very early. The plot twist of dying would be more of shocker if say a prostitute or Vengeful townie dies as a DM.

Hobo (Townie)

- I hate redirecting roles but I wouldn't blatantly say "No" to this one, it would need a lot of tweaking tho.

Our only current redirecting role is Barkeeper but it has 2 other actions of blocking and role reveal. So to me we should have another option of pure redirect as barkeeper could be counted as a partial Investigator. So glad you wouldn’t automatically say no to it!!!!!

Just a basic redirect role to be included is all I ask. And host preferences means not every host has to choose it for their game.

Freezer (Townie)

- Dont really like it either, messes with other players without much meaning behind it. If I understood correctly it just delays the action for the next night so the victim still has their night action for the following night. Just like M.Bodyguard it wouldn't really fit save in very specific situations, such as a revealed mafia that cannot be lynched at the moment, so in absence of a prostitute you can delay his action... too vanilla imo.

I kind of stole this a bit from Mafia Universe But left off the second part. Oops.

Freezer Description from Mafia Universe
A player that targets another each night causing two effects, one of them delayed. The night on which the action is used the target will be frozen in place and will be essentially blocked for that night from using their action. On the following night the target will still be dethawing, causing the target to be unable to be protected.

Mafia Bodyguard (Mafia)

- Not a fan of it, a Mafia losing a member is already a great loss for them so them having a member that exists to die for a more powerful mafia would only make sense in extremely convoluted games (like Umineko game, WoW), so out of those its just a weak mafia role to join the Gambler.

I see your point. Personally, I kind of like it better than a mafia doctor. As mafia doctor will automatically protect their team with no true loss to them. Ofc, Sane spies on top of mafia doctor will just allow town to find the mafia faster too should a doctor or bodyguard die and we see who they protected.

But it’s part of the game for mafia to potentially take losses during the night phases. Adds to the unpredictable nature of adding townie killing roles (PGO, Bomb, insane doctor, third parties, etc)

A Bodyguard would allow mafia to lose someone while protecting those more important roles. It doesn’t have the OP protection a mafia doctor would bring. I guess mafia doctor would need to be tested in make games. Even if it’s not listed in the approve roles to test.

Sure, mafia bodyguard wouldn’t be that much fun to play. But it’s already better than townie bodyguard because you get to be on a pad with a team. You can also work to have a meaningful death if you die - helping your partners.

 

[GrySun]

Since Gry seems pretty chilled at the moment. Here is this write up...

In Fumetsu, there were two mafia apprentice roles tested - one per both 3 player mafia teams. Vandred and I chose this role because we could put more than one in the game. Thus creating a double study. Conditions were balanced between the two teams.

The first team consisted of:
Red Mafia Bomb
Red Mafia Escort
Red Mafia Apprentice - Offered: Mafia Boss, Mafia Detective, Strongman - picked Strongman

The second consisted of:
Pink-Purple Mafia Boss
Pink-Purple Mafia Escort
Pink-Purple Mafia Apprentice - Offered: Mafia Bomb, Mafia Detective, Strongman - picked Mafia Bomb

Both apprentices survived long enough to get their choice of upgrade. Brandish (Red Apprentice)ended up being delayed one night after wasting a kill on a BP.

Erinyes (Pink Apprentice) choose Bomb after her second successful kill on the third night. She had previously played a mafia bomb in OPM and carried her team pretty far. Experienced helped her choose which of the roles she wanted. Later in the game, she was lynched using her new bomb role.

We also offered her Detective and Strongman. Strongman for the BP that was in the game. It should be noted that Vandred wanted to more useful roles for later in the game but I wanted to do more exciting roles like detective. Wondered if people would choose it over more common or useful roles.

Brandish did get to upgrade after the third night and his second successful kill. He didn’t get the opportunity to use his new role but the choice between upgrades was fun. He choose Strongman because his kill on Bel had failed and he suspected her of being a BP. He almost choose the detective role because it’s flashy. (Ha! See I knew someone would fall for my trap!) And he said he wouldn’t have ever chose the bomb role.

It should be noted that no matter what the hosts offers to the player, a player will choose what the player wants to choose. So a host should not offer anything that might unnecessarily confuse a player when picking. Hosts need to offer strategic useful roles for their game (mason mafia, Bomb Defuser, Bomb, Boss, Strongman) and not just OP ones just because they want to see the shock value.

The two kill delay might be an issue. As you could have instances where an apprentice never upgrades. Also teams with other killers like assassin and janitor may not use their apprentice. Suggest maybe only 1 night to kill before upgrading????

The only apprentice upgrade that I would more like to see used in a game would be Mafia Mason, for the recruitment angle.

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 6, 2019, Original Post Date: Apr 6, 2019 ---

Also suggest the mafia mason be allowed for recruitment. Mafia masons are not really a thing any more since not every game has masons and almost any starting will be suspected of being MM or a lover. Plus with super masons as a thing now, could help to nerf the masons without use of the starters.

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 8, 2019 ---

Mafia Bodyguard (Mafia)
The Mafia Bodyguard can "save" another Mafia Member at the expense of his life similar to the normal Bodyguard. He picks a person each night and if the person is attacked then the bodyguard becomes the target instead.

Freezer (Townie)
A player that targets another each night for a pseudo-block. The night on which the action is used the target will be frozen in place and will be essentially blocked for that night from using their action but the action will only be delayed until the following night.

Hobo (Townie)
This player constantly hits up other players for actions. He has no idea what actions his target is using but redirects the action to a target he wants. Example, “I redirect Lambu onto James for tonight.”

Adjustments to these:

Sleeper (secondary role)
Hidden secondary role not know to the player, but allows the player to be recruited if killed. Upgrade of the vanilla townie version but can still be put on a vanilla townie role if you want.

Death Miller (secondary role)
Hidden secondary role not know to the player, but the player shows up as nontownie for investigations and shows up as a mafia member on death.

Will keep it short.

M. Apprentice - 2 kills is fine, maybe even too few kills. Putting it down to 1 is a bad idea and I don‘t support that. In your example siuation I it interesting to let the mafias decide whether they want to use their power roles like ass/janitor or if the sweet extra from apprentice is worth it. It‘s all about choices, and I want the players, especially mafia, to have plenty of choices and few or none „obvious choices“.

M Mason - Even if offered on Apprentice, it should definitely not auto-join the Masons. But changing M Mason to be recruitable sounds good, if also hugely chaotic and unpredictable just who is legit anymore. But I don‘t mind since it helps my case of lynching every mason.

M Bodyguard - what Lambu said, you don‘t want to be a disposable role in your mafia team.

Freezer - Feels like there‘s no real practical use for this whatsoever.

Hobo - no Hypnotiser wannabes, the role was removed for a reason.

Sleeper - Dislike this, as Lambu said balancing the role for him is difficult, and with this change we‘ll forever have this „no vanilla townies“ policy of the games lately which I dislike.

D M - Dislike this too, same reason as Sleeper but with extra added trolling.

 

[Crescent Jinx]

Since Gry seems pretty chilled at the moment. Here is this write up...

Will keep it short.

 

[GrySun]

Don’t mind me, I just get Mafia abstinence whenever I’ve just played a game and need to still it somehow. So here are some silly roles I came up with while driving today.

Dodger (Town)
Picks one player at Night to dodge; if said player targets the Dodger, the targeting fails.
(Alternatively, if the other player is a Mafia whose team targets the Dodger, the targeting fails?)

Kidnapper (Town)
Picks one person per Night to kidnap. The targeted player is protected from other Night Actions, but also fails to perform their own Night action. If the target is a Mafia, the kidnapping fails.

Mercenary (Undecided)
At Night gets one guess at who is a Mafia Boss or Serial Killer. If correctly guessing a Mafia Boss, joins that Boss’ team. If correctly guessing a Serial Killer, they become Mentor/Mentee.
(If the Mercenary dies as a Mentee, the SK/Mentor goes back to being a Serial Killer.
(I know, this would be a nightmare to include, balance-wise )

Witness (Town)
Can target one player at Night, and if said player dies, the Witness finds out what caused the death (Mafia kill, Insane Doctor, PGO, “Hider death by proxy”, etc) but not who did it.
EDIT: Just realized there already is Mortician who has this power but better..

Surgeon (Town)
Can save targets at Night like a regular Doctor, or try to save one person who was lynched the Day before. This ability has a 50/50 success rate, and if used (whether successful or failed) the Surgeon cannot use any Night action the following Night (two Nights? Idk)

Judas (Mafia)
Like a regular Traitor, but also knows who is Jesus, and if Judas is recruited, Jesus dies and is unable to resurrect.

Inigo Montoya / Inigo Montoya’s Father (Secondary)
If Inigo Montoya’s Father dies by lynching, the other person learns they are Inigo Montoya and can - at any point in the game and only once - choose one of the people who voted for him and kill them at Day (saying “Hello, my name is Inigo Montoya. You killed my father. Prepare to die!”)
If Inigo Montoya’s Father dies at Night, Inigo Montoya can each Night try to kill who he thinks killed him, and if he guesses correctly his target dies (if he’s wrong, nothing happens).
During the time Inigo Montoya is Inigo Montoya, his normal role can not be used, because Inigo Montoya only cares about avenging his father.

Okay, so some of these may be joke ones.
Like I said, I just came up with these during the day for fun, haven’t really tried to hypothetically apply them into any real situations (but that’s how I came up with previous roles which are now in the game, so ).

Also, I may or may not have rewatched The Princess Bride last night..

Dodger - A watered down self centered prostitute? Only really useful super late with less players, while most of the game the odds for this role to do anything is super low.

Kidnapper - A watered down Doctor?

Mercenary - Nightmare balance-wise, but interesting.

Witness - weaker Mortician? But it‘s also more instant compared to Mortician that needs the corpse first. This should be like a buff to Mortician actually, so he can also find results on N1 if he targets the right dying person. As unlikely as it is.

Surgeon - 50% chance to revive lynched townies? A bit broken if you ask me. But interesting.

Judas - Does Jesus need a counter?

Idk about the Inigo Montoya one, don‘t get the reference and too much to read right now.
As for the „watered down“ comments, that‘s not necessarily a bad thing, but not a big priority to include I think? Hm.

 

[Organizized]

Judas - Does Jesus need a counter?

Depends: is it Donald Jesus?

Nah, like I said, it was mostly all for fun anyway.