Fall NFL Thread

[Jammin]

Did you watch the Bills vs Patriots game today?

In the 4th quarter, on the Bills last chance to score on the 4th down.

There was a patriots player who was celebrating after they stopped the bills on 3rd down.

Who was lying on the field injured -- only seconds after celebrating.

...

Are injuries difficult to fake?

Lie on the field saying your back or neck hurts. Then get up and say you're ok, you only had the wind knocked out of you.

Good if dirty way to gain an unofficial timeout. Or to give your team extra time to rest if they're fading.

They could claim dizziness or lightheadedness and go through concussion protocols with a negative result.

Doctors would never know the difference.

That's not really how that works. Football isn't like Basketball in that respect.

For one thing if you leave the field you have to stay gone for at least a play. And if it results in time stoppage, an injury timeout is deducted from your team, meaning they lose a timeout automatically. In the event no timeouts remain, there is a whole other set of rules that come into play but it's typically not free unless it's the result of a foul by the opposing team.

And if you are put in concussion protocol you are not going out on the field. At least your not supposed to be. Once you're in the protocol you're done until you clear it which takes days.

If somebody was going to fake something it would be cramping but as I said, that wouldn't be a good idea in most situations.

 

[Sanity Check]

For one thing if you leave the field you have to stay gone for at least a play. And if it results in time stoppage, an injury timeout is deducted from your team, meaning they lose a timeout automatically. In the event not timeouts remain, there is a whole other set of rules that come into play but it's typically not free unless it's the result of a foul by the opposing team.

And if you are put in concussion protocol you are not going out one the field. At least your not supposed to be. Once your in the protocol your done until you clear it which takes days.

If somebody was going to fake something it would be cramping but as I said, that wouldn't be a good idea in most situations.

All that means to me is, injuries would be faked by replaceable 2nd, 3rd, 4th string players.

Who are subbed onto the field for that special occasion, under select circumstances, where they have no timeouts remaining.

If you watch the last 2 minutes of today's Bills vs Patriots game.

Even commentators acknowledged the downed player had been celebrating only seconds before apparently being "injured".

...

This has been on my mind all year. Only citing it now as there might finally be some evidence for it.

 

[Jammin]

All that means to me is, injuries will be faked by replaceable 2nd, 3rd, 4th string players.

Who are subbed onto the field for that special occasion, under select circumstances, where they have no timeouts remaining.

If you watch the last 2 minutes of today's Bills vs Patriot game.

Even commentators acknowledged the downed player had been celebrating only seconds before apparently being "injured".

It's a complicated rule set and there could be loopholes in there and if there are I'm sure Bill Belichick knows about them.

But if you put a poor player on the field you risk getting burned for a touchdown or giving up a touchdown. NFL teams don't have the leeway to put a player out there that isn't the best they got. Especially near the end of a game. And as I said with no timeouts remaining there is a whole set of rules. Usually a negative comes with an injury timeout for the team of the injured player unless it's the result of a foul. So it's not really something you see often.

 

[xi0]

Did you watch the Bills vs Patriots game today?

In the 4th quarter, on the Bills last chance to score on the 4th down.

There was a patriots player who was celebrating after they stopped the bills on 3rd down.

Who was lying on the field injured -- only seconds after celebrating.

...

Are injuries difficult to fake?

Lie on the field saying your back or neck hurts. Then get up and say you're ok, you only had the wind knocked out of you.

Good if dirty way to gain an unofficial timeout. Or to give your team extra time to rest if they're fading.

They could claim dizziness or lightheadedness and go through concussion protocols with a negative result.

Doctors would never know the difference.

I was under the assumption that you were talking about faking an injury on an injury report or something, not during a game. But yeah, of course players stay down longer to give their team a chance to catch their breath.

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 7, 2021, Original Post Date: Dec 7, 2021 ---

I guess it's kind of a shitty way to ask the question, but... in a game where Mac Jones attempts a grand total of 3 PASSES and you give up 220 yds rushing, it's probably not an unfair question entirely, is it?

 

[LaGOAT]

Pats being the best in the AFC is crazy

 

[xi0]

Their schedule is pretty soft down the stretch too

Colts
Bills
Jaguars
Dolphins

 

[Jammin]

Man, Claypool... I know he's a young guy. And WRs tend to be diva types. But oh my lord. 36 seconds left in a game driving down to try and score and he does a damn celebration pose with the football as the clock is running. Dafaq was he thinking?

That's like an all time knucklehead move right there.

Not his fault we lost obviously. That honor belongs with the defense but wow man. The defense running all the way down to pose for an interception celebration after they gave up like 21 points was bad enough but... just wow.

 

[xi0]

I know I've been getting in the habit of shitting on Tomlin, but it's just a culture thing at this point. Of course it's of much less consequence if you win, but I guess it's still there.

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 10, 2021, Original Post Date: Dec 10, 2021 ---

Well if it's any consolation to other AFC North teams, I think the Ravens are going to struggle to not finish the season 9-8, so the division isn't really wrapped up yet.

 

[Jammin]

I know I've been getting in the habit of shitting on Tomlin, but it's just a culture thing at this point. Of course it's of much less consequence if you win, but I guess it's still there.

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 10, 2021, Original Post Date: Dec 10, 2021 ---

Well if it's any consolation to other AFC North teams, I think the Ravens are going to struggle to not finish the season 9-8, so the division isn't really wrapped up yet.

The culture, you say. I feel like you keep moving the goalpost on what that means.

Obviously, I don't agree with that. At least not about the Claypool thing. The reality is the Steelers do draft talented WRs who often turn out to be bonehead divas. That's a Colbert staple. Usually Tomlin can manage those guys pretty well. Pretty good at trading them right before they go completely nuts too. Ala, Plaxico Burress or Antonio Brown or Martavis Bryant. Claypool was benched after that early moron penalty he took but sadly the depth issues forced him to go back in and he made some plays... then did something narcissistic and stupid again.

But the reality is the Steelers just showed up and the defense didn't even try for 3 quarters after Watt went out. That to me was the larger problem and I don't know what the cause of that is. Maybe they're too comfortable with Tomlin. But he looked pretty pissed off to me and he should be. It just should never be the case that a professional football team shows up and it looks like some of the players think they're getting paid by the hour. That is clearly not acceptable.

 

[xi0]

The culture, you say. I feel like you keep moving the goalpost on what that means.

Obviously, I don't agree with that. At least not about the Claypool thing. The reality is the Steelers do draft talented WRs who often turn out to be bonehead divas. That's a Colbert staple. Usually Tomlin can manage those guys pretty well. Pretty good at trading them right before they go completely nuts too. Ala, Plaxico Burress or Antonio Brown or Martavis Bryant. Claypool was benched after that early moron penalty he took but sadly the depth issues forced him to go back in and he made some plays... then did something narcissistic and stupid again.

But the reality is the Steelers just showed up and the defense didn't even try for 3 quarters after Watt went out. That to me was the larger problem and I don't know what the cause of that is. Maybe they're too comfortable with Tomlin. But he looked pretty pissed off to me and he should be. It just should never be the case that a professional football team shows up and it looks like some of the players think they're getting paid by the hour. That is clearly not acceptable.

Moving the goalposts how? I mean, it isn't just Tomlin but the buck stops with him ultimately, doesn't it? It's his locker room. But it's also about Roethlisberger only deflecting blame and never having accountability as a leader himself either (maybe I wouldn't either at this point if I was him, I wouldn't have been shocked if he pulled a Vontae Davis the way his O-Line was playing). But like I said, this is something that mostly bothers fans of teams on the other end of it, I've only seen some Steelers fans complain about this sort of thing in recent years. Not that I agree with any sort of #FireTomlin movement or something but if the same sort of problem keeps happening with different people then what hasn't changed about the situation? The coach that's been there for 13 years.

As far as Claypool goes, it seems like no one I've seen that followed him in college is saying he was anywhere near this much of a clown. It's not like I would expect Brian Kelly to put up with it either. There's something to be said for treating professionals like professionals, and coaches can get a lot of out their players by doing that, Tomlin clearly has. But I mean... come on, that kid is a clown show. Saw a funny comment saying that Claypool is what everyone thinks JuJu is.

 

[Jammin]

Moving the goalposts how? I mean, it isn't just Tomlin but the buck stops with him ultimately, doesn't it? It's his locker room. But it's also about Roethlisberger only deflecting blame and never having accountability as a leader himself either (maybe I wouldn't either at this point if I was him, I wouldn't have been shocked if he pulled a Vontae Davis the way his O-Line was playing). But like I said, this is something that mostly bothers fans of teams on the other end of it, I've only seen some Steelers fans complain about this sort of thing in recent years. Not that I agree with any sort of #FireTomlin movement or something but if the same sort of problem keeps happening with different people then what hasn't changed about the situation? The coach that's been there for 13 years.

As far as Claypool goes, it seems like no one I've seen that followed him in college is saying he was anywhere near this much of a clown. It's not like I would expect Brian Kelly to put up with it either. There's something to be said for treating professionals like professionals, and coaches can get a lot of out their players by doing that, Tomlin clearly has. But I mean... come on, that kid is a clown show. Saw a funny comment saying that Claypool is what everyone thinks JuJu is.

Moving the goalposts in the sense that you initially were making the argument that the steelers cultured produced the penalties and thuggery. Now it's immature players. Is the argument your making just a culture of lack of discipline on the team? Because I don't see that. I just don't. Tomlin is always pretty forthright about what's going on. You can see it for yourself. Ben is the same. You can watch his press conference and when he sucks or does something stupid he will freely admit that.



The tone among us Steeler fans though is even easier to read because it's pretty much personified by these every week.




Which is hilariously accurate to what we Steeler fans are like. Little of that guy in all of us. Sometimes a lot.

 

[xi0]

Moving the goalposts in the sense that you initially were making the argument that the steelers cultured produced the penalties and thuggery. Now it's immature players. Is the argument your making just a culture of lack of discipline on the team? Because I don't see that. I just don't. Tomlin is always pretty forthright about what's going on. You can see it for yourself. Ben is the same. You can watch his press conference and when he sucks or does something stupid he will freely admit that.

It can be both, no? I also said that it was magnified by the reality that they seem to get away with it more than other teams. But yeah, I think Watt and Claypool are the best example of it, the only difference is the former hasn't had it cost his team a game yet so he's not in the doghouse with most fans.

Enough of a lack of discipline that your best players are being detrimental to your team and don't seem to be held accountable for it. I'm also not a Super Bowl winning coach, so what do I know.

Yeah, but Ben has also pointed the finger too, he did the same thing last night when asked about Claypool's antics. But like I said, I probably would have quit at halftime myself so I digress.

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 11, 2021, Original Post Date: Dec 11, 2021 ---

Where's the lack of leadership then? Ben? some other veteran like Haden or Heyward? If it's not the players then it has to be Tomlin?

I know Clark seems to have a reputation with some fans for being a rat and he is an ESPN employee now but I guess it seems like there has to be some nugget of truth in there?

 

[Jammin]

It can be both, no? I also said that it was magnified by the reality that they seem to get away with it more than other teams. But yeah, I think Watt and Claypool are the best example of it, the only difference is the former hasn't had it cost his team a game yet so he's not in the doghouse with most fans.

Enough of a lack of discipline that your best players are being detrimental to your team and don't seem to be held accountable for it. I'm also not a Super Bowl winning coach, so what do I know.

I disagree about Watt. He's an aggressive defensive player but that's what you want. Got no issue with Watt's play. He's tied the Steelers sack record already this season with games left to play. If he was on your team, the Ravens fas would be measuring out the place for the statue next to Ray Lewis.

I just think you need to understand that these are grown men. The coaches are not running a middle school soccer team. Athletes aren't always the best adjusted or mature people. Claypool screwed up quite a few times. If he keeps it up he won't be on the team. That's how it goes. He's the only person on the offense that's like that. Even Juju wasn't like that.

Yeah, but Ben has also pointed the finger too, he did the same thing last night when asked about Claypool's antics. But like I said, I probably would have quit at halftime myself so I digress.

No, he didn't. When asked all he said was that's for the coaches to deal with. Not for him. And he's right.

Where's the lack of leadership then? Ben? some other veteran like Haden or Heyward? If it's not the players then it has to be Tomlin?

I know Clark seems to have a reputation with some fans for being a rat and he is an ESPN employee now but I guess it seems like there has to be some nugget of truth in there?

I mean, there is nobody defending Claypool. He was benched and if he doesn't straighten up he's not going to be on the team. There is no sense of approval for his actions anywhere in the Steelers organization. Nobody thinks the defense played acceptably. Even among the players themselves. It was a short week after a Ravens game. Shit happens.

Ryan Clark likes to talk. He always has. They don't need a motivational speaker. But normally the tone setter on defense would be Watt. On the offense's problem it isn't general. It's specific. We've got one player who is playing like a fool and a bunch of rookies on the o-line. They ran straight in and sacked Big Ben rushing 4 against max protect. That's a problem you, I'm sure, can appreciate given the Ravens o-line.

 

[xi0]

I disagree about Watt. He's an aggressive defensive player but that's what you want. Got no issue with Watt's play. He's tied the Steelers sack record already this season with games left to play. If he was on your team, the Ravens fas would be measuring out the place for the statue next to Ray Lewis.

I just think you need to understand that these are grown men. The coaches are not running a middle school soccer team. Athletes aren't always the best adjusted or mature people. Claypool screwed up quite a few times. If he keeps it up he won't be on the team. That's how it goes. He's the only person on the offense that's like that. Even Juju wasn't like that.

I try not to be a homer when it comes to that shit and play that bothers me, so I wouldn't be okay with it tbh. I don't hold Ray Lewis in absurd reverence either despite his status.

I just think TJ's reputation is not simply because he's a good player that wears a Steelers jersey. I'll just leave it at that, I guess.

No, he didn't. When asked all he said was that's for the coaches to deal with. Not for him. And he's right.

He's right as far as what he's paid to do, but think about his peers that have or will be wearing a gold jacket like him one day. Do you really think Brady, Manning, Brees, Rodgers, or Rivers would tolerate antics like his and have nothing to say about it? Maybe he's skirting the line because of what happened with AB, but again, why do these situations keep happening with this team? If it's not some blind spot or inadequacy that Tomlin has then it's the veteran leadership, which Ben is a part of.

 

[Jammin]

He's right as far as what he's paid to do, but think about his peers that have or will be wearing a gold jacket like him one day. Do you really think Brady, Manning, Brees, Rodgers, or Rivers would tolerate antics like his and have nothing to say about it? Maybe he's skirting the line because of what happened with AB, but again, why do these situations keep happening with this team? If it's not some blind spot or inadequacy that Tomlin has then it's the veteran leadership, which Ben is a part of.

And you think Ben didn't have anything to say about it? He was screaming at him after that penalty and he wasn't the only one. Tomlin benched him after that. Probably would have stayed there if not for the depth issues. Beyond that it's Tomlin that has to deal with him. That's his job. Is he a problem absolutely. So are like a hundred other players in the league.

Honestly, I think your just mining for gripes.

You say "why do these situations keep happening with this team?" but that's the Ravens fan in you really coming out there. You follow Ravens stuff where everything negative about the Steelers gets magnified because normally we're the division rival. You are convinced there is some pattern there. Every team has problems. The Steelers are not unique in that respect. And you can bemoan and complain about culture and leadership and all that but those are just buzzwords with little actual relation to the problems of my team. Which I've often said isn't good and isn't going to make the playoffs this year.

If you want to actually know the cause of that is. It's roster issues. Which relate to salary cap issues. Combined with injuries (you want to know where the leaders on defense are right here)and a 39 year old QB who can't consistently play well anymore not matter how much he wants to. A bad and injured o-line (3rd center.) on offense and our problems aren't discipline related for the most part, Claypool aside.

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 11, 2021, Original Post Date: Dec 11, 2021 ---

There are positives too. Players who are playing really well and showing a lot of promise. I got no problem with TJ Watt. I like how he plays just fine. Najee Harris is amazing even with no help at all. Minka Fitzpatric continues to be the best trade the Steelers ever made. Freiermuth is an incredible rookie TE. And I got no complaints about Diontae Johnson.

But sometimes that's not enough.

 

[xi0]

Apparently game-day positives don't result in a game being cancelled unless the amount is "significant".... don't really get that at all. Is the risk significantly lower if those players only end up testing positive tomorrow? Not like that matters now with the NFL only testing vaccinated players if they have symptoms, so numbers can never really be known.

Not that I think playing this game on Tuesday or Wednesday will change the outcome at all... but I have to wonder how the roster of both teams are going to look going into next week's games.

 

[Jammin]

The NFLs handing of covid stuff continues to be a bad joke. They pretty much do as little as they can get away with and hope nobody notices.

 

[xi0]

Part of it is kind of just the way the sport works... you can't have makeup games like in baseball or something since it's just too punishing. But of course, money is the main motivation here and always will be.

I do sort of think that with the way the pandemic is going and it eventually being endemic this sort of change would probably be inevitable but it seems too early and done in service to not decimating rosters for decisive games and the playoffs.

 

[Jammin]

Part of it is kind of just the way the sport works... you can't have makeup games like in baseball or something since it's just too punishing. But of course, money is the main motivation here and always will be.

I do sort of think that with the way the pandemic is going and it eventually being endemic this sort of change would probably be inevitable but it seems too early and done in service to not decimating rosters for decisive games and the playoffs.

If they wanted to I'm sure they could figure out a way. Get everybody together and agree to add another bye week with the potential for a negotiable third. Then you shuffle those around as the situation dictates. Kick the Superbowl back a few weeks.

Sports aren't fundamentally any different than any other organized event. The physical strain is something they need to take into account but so is a serious and rapidly spreading viral illness. Granted, at the beginning of the season they couldn't know omicron was going to be a thing. But last year should have taught them some lessons.

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 19, 2021, Original Post Date: Dec 19, 2021 ---

Steelers up by 6. 2 mins to go. Ball on the 32.

Really wish we could stop the run.

 

[xi0]

That was the funniest spot I've ever seen

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 19, 2021, Original Post Date: Dec 19, 2021 ---

I guess it was intentional so it'd be reviewed or something but still... take that play and then the spot, put it in a clip and it's a microcosm of NFL officiating