Discussion NNT versus thread

[HereNThere]

Guardian probably couldn't get through ON without a struggle (it would take a few more tries than Escanor for sure) but it could certainly resist the pull and keep King safe.. assuming he isn't sitting in his pollen garden watching Zeldris suffer.

Probably wouldn't be a single Guardian like last time either.

 

[Ger]

Feats>statements. Sinner is a no show and has not shown feats even greater than zeldris.

 

[Seven777]

Feats>statements. Sinner is a no show and has not shown feats even greater than zeldris.

A characters own opinion on his power>your opinion on his power. Zeldris said Cusack is stronger, so he is

 

[Estarossa173]

Feats>statements. Sinner is a no show and has not shown feats even greater than zeldris.

Precisely. I’m amazed there’s anyone who STILL freaking claims the sinner is stronger than zeldris.

Better to rely on feats than statements

 

[Ger]

A characters own opinion on his power>your opinion on his power. Zeldris said Cusack is stronger, so he is

you don't even know the definition of what feat means which is still author work and so far zeldris is shown to have keeping up with mael, King and not being pressured when they got to the field. so feel free to give me a good argument while u can. So far its not looking good.

--- Double Post Merged, May 21, 2019, Original Post Date: May 21, 2019 ---

Precisely. I’m amazed there’s anyone who STILL freaking claims the sinner is stronger than zeldris.

Better to rely on feats than statements

its just "some" takes statements over a feat, let me give you an example of a statement isn't always correct, someone has CLAIMED this person did a 1000lbs bench press, but do we believe that's true until we see a feat of that person doing it? no.

 

[Seven777]

you don't even know the definition of what feat means which is still author work and so far zeldris is shown to have keeping up with mael, King and not being pressured when they got to the field. so feel free to give me a good argument while u can. So far its not looking good.

--- Double Post Merged, May 21, 2019, Original Post Date: May 21, 2019 ---

its just "some" takes statements over a feat, let me give you an example of a statement isn't always correct, someone has CLAIMED this person did a 1000lbs bench press, but do we believe that's true until we see a feat of that person doing it? no.

Except the feat wasnt Zeldris beating Cusack, however the statement WAS Cusack>Zeldris. As for an argument, like i said, what zeldris says>what you say. Its a pretty rock solid argument

 

[Ger]

Except the feat wasnt Zeldris beating Cusack, however the statement WAS Cusack>Zeldris. As for an argument, like i said, what zeldris says>what you say. Its a pretty rock solid argument

except the feat was greater than the sinner's. Sinner got pushed back by the chastiefol 1st form meanwhile king with guardian couldn't pressure zeldris enough. It's not even what i said but rather nakaba's work portrayal, so blame him not me.

 

[Arjuna]

Zeldris wins.Zeldris didn't get one shorted by Post Noon Mael like the Sinner.

 

[Samael Morningstar]

Zeldris wins.Zeldris didn't get one shorted by Post Noon Mael like the Sinner.

I believe if zeldris didn't have DK magic nullification he would have died from the greatest sun attack.

 

[Arjuna]

I believe if zeldris didn't have DK magic nullification he would have died from the greatest sun attack.

We can never say it.


But yeah Zeldris's feats are better than Sinner.

 

[Samael Morningstar]

We can never say it.


But yeah Zeldris's feats are better than Sinner.

That is as I said is mainly because of DK magic.

 

[Shadowlord123]

The Sinner vs Zeldris is in all honesty a tricky match:

- If we go by statements, then the Sinner should be way above Zeldris in power. Zeldris himself already stated that Cusack and Chandler were individually stronger than him, and there's no reason to think he was lying, so it's logical that if they fuse the difference will be way bigger.

- If we go by feats however, Zeldris has shown to be way more impressive than the Sinner. The last one was being kept at bay by a Rhitta Charged Night Escanor who could stop his blows and tank multiple hits, overwhelmed by King using only one spear from far away, humiliated by Ludoshel until Crisis started powering him up and oneshotted by Mael even after being powered up multiple times. Zeldris, one the other hand, trashed the entire Assault Squad by himself with ON, kept up with King's spear from far away with only his 1st DM and finally kept up with Mael and tanked multiple attacks from him (he also blitzed and injured him considerably). Not to mention that the DK's magic makes him almost invulnerable to magical attacks and ON it's incredibly difficult to bypass with physical attacks. It's undeniable that Zeldris is far more impressive than the Sinner.

This fight, as well as other examples, show one of my main problems with Nakaba's writing and that is contradictions between feats and statements. Both sides can make up an argument as to who wins this battle, but I'd personally say that Zeldris wins. Statements are nice information and are make up for a reason but at the end of the day they're only words. The feat is what backs up the statement, if a character A states that a character B is way stronger than him and then this same character A shows feats that are way more impressive than those shown by character B, I will believe character A is stronger at the end of the day.

Just my two cents on the matter.

 

[Samael Morningstar]

The Sinner vs Zeldris is in all honesty a tricky match:

- If we go by statements, then the Sinner should be way above Zeldris in power. Zeldris himself already stated that Cusack and Chandler were individually stronger than him, and there's no reason to think he was lying, so it's logical that if they fuse the difference will be way bigger.

- If we go by feats however, Zeldris has shown to be way more impressive than the Sinner. The last one was being kept at bay by a Rhitta Charged Night Escanor who could stop his blows and tank multiple hits, overwhelmed by King using only one spear from far away, humiliated by Ludoshel until Crisis started powering him up and oneshotted by Mael even after being powered up multiple times. Zeldris, one the other hand, trashed the entire Assault Squad by himself with ON, kept up with King's spear from far away with only his 1st DM and finally kept up with Mael and tanked multiple attacks from him (he also blitzed and injured him considerably). Not to mention that the DK's magic makes him almost invulnerable to magical attacks and ON it's incredibly difficult to bypass with physical attacks. It's undeniable that Zeldris is far more impressive than the Sinner.

This fight, as well as other examples, show one of my main problems with Nakaba's writing and that is contradictions between feats and statements. Both sides can make up an argument as to who wins this battle, but I'd personally say that Zeldris wins. Statements are nice information and are make up for a reason but at the end of the day they're only words. The feat is what backs up the statement, if a character A states that a character B is way stronger than him and then this same character A shows feats that are way more impressive than those shown by character B, I will believe character A is stronger at the end of the day.

Just my two cents on the matter.

Actually zeldris ON and God makes him a perfect counter for anyone, he even fought DK and destroyed the sage of moments by using ON and if DK had not taken back the God ability zeldris could have even fight him more.
To be honest chandler and cussack individualy were seemingly more powerful than zeldris but after them becoming sinner they were weaker than zeldris
Cause the fact that cussack and chandler were nearly unaffected by ludociel and assault squad attacks until merlin used her hacks.
Whatever it is I would always say in terms of durability Sinner >>>>>>>>>>> zeldris
But if a fight happens between them I can see sinner overpowering zeldris in his sword fight, sinner won't resort to magical attacks as he knows that it won't work on him but after zeldris uses his ON from there on sinner will get overpowered I mean even if he stands at one point still and avoides going near to ON barrier but still in the end he has to make a move and obviously which will be physical he may at first endure the ON barrier for some time BUT if he uses his Innate ability Climax at the right time then while taking injuries from ON his powers will be growing and growing to the point where he may be able to break through ON and fight zeldris head on and may even win.
Thats my point there.

 

[MrSchmitty7]

What is this talk about feats being greater than words?

Zeldris doesn’t have greater feats, he just gets around because of his father’s magic. We saw what happens when he doesn’t have it.

The Sinner took a greater sun to the face and eventually chandler and cusack got up and cusack managed to steal the commandments without being detected. Zeldris took one attack from the demon king and had to be saved by Cusack.

Zel couldn’t even last 5 minutes against a post noon Mael while he was holding back and wasn’t using his magic that often, which is arguably where Mael’s strongest feats come from.

The sinner broke a sacred treasure with death drive. Zel’s magic only managed to chip it and keep in mind Escanor was also adding his own force to it by swinging it.

Overall the sinner can hold his own more than Zel. Zel’s borrowed magic just makes it so that the circumstances are harder for him to be beaten with.

 

[OtakuFreak]

The sinner broke a sacred treasure with death drive. Zel’s magic only managed to chip it and keep in mind Escanor was also adding his own force to it by swinging it.

Zeldris chipping a sacred treasure with the force of ''The One'' right behind it is a much greater feat to me than Cudler breaking it when Escanor was much weaker.

Other than that Zeldris doesn't have the power enough to defeat Cudler. Sure, his defence is much greater given Ominous Nebula and his magical immunity but what can he do to actually harm/overpower Cudler? He loses in raw power from the looks of it.

 

[Samael Morningstar]

I'll say it again
Sinner is much more durable than zeldris
Sinner has seen magical attacks have no effect on zeldris so he won't directly attack magically
He would engage zeldris in sword fight and the fact that just a part of it reached zeldris sword fight, he will overwhelm zeldris and then zeldris resorts to use ON to which Sinner may get overwhelmed or may hold his ground but if he gets dragged to it and if he unlocks his innate ability climax in the right time then he will get more and more powerful along with ON attacking him more and with more powerful he gets he may even destroy ON barrier and overpower and defeat zeldris

 

[MrSchmitty7]

I think a fight between Zel and Cusack would go something like this. Cusack and Zel spar for a bit before Zel activates his ON. Cusack does exactly what he did against it last time, he grabs onto a wall, or the ground or whatever is there and waits for Zel to either run out of magic or waits till Zel turns it off. By that point Zel is either to tired to fight or has to fight Cusack using physical means, and in that case I’d say Cusack is better with the sword.

Either way we know that before noon Escanor is about 140K and Escanor is able to resist being dragged even while hugging Merlin

 

[Seven777]

Escanor fared better against Zeldris than he did against the Sinner. Escanor didn't really have much trouble resisting ON, and he tanked it pretty easily too when he had to save Merlin. Base Zel fending off Chastiefol isn't that impressive, King was a mile away and still winning. Besides, we already know Ludoret is a superior swordsman to base Zeldris, and Cusack>Ludoret.

As for Cudler getting oneshot by Mael, not really, Ludo already trashed him pretty bad by that point and his body had been breaking apart since his transformation. Who know's how far the Sinner's body had degraded by the time Ludo and then Mael stepped in. So yeah, not really a oneshot at all, why do you think Nakaba mentioned the Sinner's crumbling body literally seconds before Mael arrived to beat him?

 

[Samael Morningstar]

I think a fight between Zel and Cusack would go something like this. Cusack and Zel spar for a bit before Zel activates his ON. Cusack does exactly what he did against it last time, he grabs onto a wall, or the ground or whatever is there and waits for Zel to either run out of magic or waits till Zel turns it off. By that point Zel is either to tired to fight or has to fight Cusack using physical means, and in that case I’d say Cusack is better with the sword.

Either way we know that before noon Escanor is about 140K and Escanor is able to resist being dragged even while hugging Merlin

Before noon escanor is 114k

--- Double Post Merged, May 21, 2019, Original Post Date: May 21, 2019 ---

Escanor fared better against Zeldris than he did against the Sinner. Escanor didn't really have much trouble resisting ON, and he tanked it pretty easily too when he had to save Merlin. Base Zel fending off Chastiefol isn't that impressive, King was a mile away and still winning. Besides, we already know Ludoret is a superior swordsman to base Zeldris, and Cusack>Ludoret.

As for Cudler getting oneshot by Mael, not really, Ludo already trashed him pretty bad by that point and his body had been breaking apart since his transformation. Who know's how far the Sinner's body had degraded by the time Ludo and then Mael stepped in. So yeah, not really a oneshot at all, why do you think Nakaba mentioned the Sinner's crumbling body just before Mael arrive and beat him?

Well sinner degrading is his innate ability climax that degrades him every passing moment and making him stronger at the same time.

 

[Seven777]

Before noon escanor is 114k

--- Double Post Merged, May 21, 2019, Original Post Date: May 21, 2019 ---

Well sinner degrading is his innate ability climax that degrades him every passing moment and making him stronger at the same time.

Nah the degrading body is a curse from the DK, it just also happens that his magic, Crisis, increases his strength as he gets more injured. Puts him in a tough spot on the durability front, though pretty good on the offensive front. He doesn't seem to get darkness regen either, which is a pretty big loss