Discussion NNT versus thread

[Aldan]

He was using Absolute order in his True form.Opting to use brute strength doesn't mean he unable to use his spells.

No he wasnt. He used it on gowther before he turned into his true form. Fodder demons weren't bound by Absolute Order, that was a mistranslation

--- Double Post Merged, Aug 4, 2018, Original Post Date: Aug 4, 2018 ---

Howzer Vs Gilthunder

Howzer. Higher PL and recently won against Gil pretty effortlessly. Plus better feats.

--- Double Post Merged, Aug 4, 2018 ---

I understand the logic but I don't see any basis to support the idea that change in fighting style requires one to sacrifice magic power/physical strength to boost his physical strength/magic power. I mean something like this never happened in the manga for us to unanimously decide that it should be the case.

What if his PL is in 100K+ range? If his PS alone is in 60K range like you said, then 35-40K for magic and 2-5K for other stats makes sense, right? And I don't see why physical attacks can't kill Tarmiel, it's not like he can keep regenerating for 24/7 or anything.

Chandler used zero magic against the kings. He couldve miniaturised Droleor used his crimson requiem but didnt. He just slashed and hacked. True Night never went away as far as I could see, but that doesnt mean that he can use magic, it just means that true night upon activation doesn't need to be actively maintained.

--- Double Post Merged, Aug 4, 2018 ---

Chandler vs Ludo

Merlin vs @Demonspeed

Arthur vs Derierie

Arthur vs Monspiet

Chandler could beat Ludo with True Form. Barring some truly absurd ability on Flash's part. It would be close, but Chandler could outlast him.

No idea what the joke of the second match is, but Merlin always

Derreri can just outlast Arthur. Once his body breaks he's screwed.

Same here.

 

[Mythoclast]

So what do you think was his magic stat?

33000

No he wasnt. He used it on gowther before he turned into his true form. Fodder demons weren't bound by Absolute Order, that was a mistranslation

@FKS
Is this true?

 

[Bøjan]

33000


@FKS
Is this true?

I think FKS already confirmed that it was a mistranslation, but i'm not 100% sure.

 

[FKS]

Nope, wasn't a mistranslation, more like a misunderstanding since it wasn't a name (which would be a series of three Japanese words that, as a whole, read as Absolute Order in katakana) but a regular expression (which would just be an normal adjective followed by a normal word, both of which reading normally in Japanese). However, the question whether the masters actually used the technique on them is up in the air.

 

[Demonspeed]

Absolute Order would have killed for good anyone among the Sins but Gowther and Ban.

33000

What? Below King and Monspiet? It doesn't make sense.

 

[Aldan]

33000


@FKS
Is this true?

Its obvious that they didnt use it anyways, even b4 FKS clarified. How exactly would elizabeth lift the order off dozens of demons whenshe failed to do anything fkr gowther?

 

[Mythoclast]

Absolute Order would have killed for good anyone among the Sins but Gowther and Ban.



What? Below King and Monspiet? It doesn't make sense.

I'm using the lowest end I could think of.Being higher than them is more likely tho.

Its obvious that they didnt use it anyways, even b4 FKS clarified. How exactly would elizabeth lift the order off dozens of demons whenshe failed to do anything fkr gowther?

FKS said it's inconclusive.

And did she even try to help Gowther?
I can't remember since she usually sits back and does nothing.

Also there's a chance her talk no jutsu could convince the low class demons to disobey Chandler's and Cusack's Absolute orders.That's one of interpreting what that panel meant.

 

[Aldan]

I'm using the lowest end I could think of.Being higher than them is more likely tho.


FKS said it's inconclusive.

And did she even try to help Gowther?
I can't remember since she usually sits back and does nothing.

Also there's a chance her talk no jutsu could convince the low class demons to disobey Chandler's and Cusack's Absolute orders.That's one of interpreting what that panel meant.

Fks clarified its inconclusive, but nothing suggests that the technique was used, especially since he confirmed it wasn't the name of the technique.

Setting aside ur irrelevant bias yes she did try. She failed.

And if the technique was used and they disobeyed, they would have been very decidedly dead which is what you don't get. Anyone can disobey the absolute order technique but they would be mangled and killed unless you're gowther. Hence all evidence suggests that the order was just that: an order, not the technique

 

[Demonspeed]

I'm using the lowest end I could think of.Being higher than them is more likely tho.

No, it is impossible. I said it before, Chandler had lost more than half of his Magic power during the projectile duel with King.

Spoiler

He would have never been able to compete if Chandler had not been that weakened.

 

[Mythoclast]

Fks clarified its inconclusive but nothing suggests that the technique was used, especially since he confirmed it wasn't the name of the technique.

Good.So it's up for debate.

Setting aside ur irrelevant bias yes she did try. She failed.

>Me
> Bias towards Elizabeth
Bwahahaha!....The irony.

And if the technique was used and they disobeyed, they would have been very decidedly dead which is what you don't get.

And you're able to conclude that I don't know this because???
Contrary to what you believe,I very much known how the spell works.

Anyone can disobey the absolute order technique but they would be mangled and killed unless you're gowther. Hence all evidence suggests that the order was just that: an order, not the technique

We're only told of the lower-class demons desertion.We never actually got a panel depicting the results of their desertion.Whether they got off scotch free due it being regular orders or getting their bodies mangled due to disobeying the Absolute orders from Chandler and Cusack is unknown.Again,it's inconclusive and up for debate.

--- Double Post Merged, Aug 5, 2018, Original Post Date: Aug 5, 2018 ---

No, it is impossible. I said it before, Chandler had lost more than half of his Magic power during the projectile duel with King.

Spoiler

He would have never been able to compete if Chandler had not been that weakened.

So full powered mage Chandler>a bit above 61k?

 

[Bøjan]

So full powered mage Chandler>a bit above 61k?

Base Cusack was compared to base Zeldris. Chandler should be more or less equal to Cusack PL-wise, that would mean from 55k-65k which is "around" Zeldris' base level if you ask me.

 

[Aldan]

Good.So it's up for debate.


>Me
> Bias towards Elizabeth
Bwahahaha!....The irony.



And you're able to conclude that I don't know this because???
Contrary to what you believe,I very much known how the spell works.


We're only told of the lower-class demons desertion.We never actually got a panel depicting the results of their desertion.Whether they got off scotch free due it being regular orders or getting their bodies mangled due to disobeying the Absolute orders from Chandler and Cusack is unknown.Again,it's inconclusive and up for debate.

--- Double Post Merged, Aug 5, 2018, Original Post Date: Aug 5, 2018 ---

So full powered mage Chandler>a bit above 61k?

1) Read the full sentence.
2) When you end a point by admitting you can't remember anything about a character but assume they did nothing because you don't like them, you're biassed.
3) Then the fact you still claim it's absolute order is hilarious.
3).......we were shown them running. Literally one of the first few pages of ch261. Then we were told they were heading towards the capital. Then we saw them at the capital. So yes, we did see them and we saw the aftermath of their fleeing. I'm convinced we read different mangas at this point.

 

[Mythoclast]

1) Read the full sentence.
2) When you end a point by admitting you can't remember anything about a character but assume they did nothing because you don't like them, you're biassed.
3) Then the fact you still claim it's absolute order is hilarious.
3).......we were shown them running. Literally one of the first few pages of ch261. Then we were told they were heading towards the capital. Then we saw them at the capital. So yes, we did see them and we saw the aftermath of their fleeing. I'm convinced we read different mangas at this point.

biased
ˈbʌɪəst/
adjective

1. unfairly prejudiced for or against someone or something.

Learn what the word means before using it,because you're looking really damn silly.
My lack of investment in a character does not translates into me being biased against said character.
Is this the new thing with Elizabeth's mouth frothing fangirls?Anyone who doesn't drool over what she does is labelled biased?Pfff
She literally sat on her ass for 99% of the encounter.


2.The fact that you're drawing a conclusion from an inconclusive point is even more hilarious.

3.Those demons heading towards the Liones were heading there to fight as implied by Hauser.

Spoiler

The topic I raised is a different scenario.The demons mentioned here are outright stated to have lost their wills to fight any longer.

Spoiler

If you can't see that then we really might be reading two different series.

 

[Aldan]

biased
ˈbʌɪəst/
adjective

1. unfairly prejudiced for or against someone or something.

Learn what the word means before using it,because you're looking really damn silly.
My lack of investment in a character does not translates into me being biased against said character.
Is this the new thing with Elizabeth's mouth frothing fangirls?Anyone who drool over her what she does is labelled biased?Pfff
She literally sat on her ass for 99% of the encounter.


2.The fact that you're drawing a conclusion from an inconclusive point is even more hilarious.

3.Those demons heading towards the Liones were heading there to fight as implied by Hauser.

Spoiler

The topic I raised is a different scenario.The demons mentioned here are outright stated to have lost their wills to fight any longer.

Spoiler

If you can't see then we really might be reading two different series.

1) I know what the word means. Not quibbling over this. She clutched meliodas to prevent his regression. Saying she did nothing is idiotic and you saying "haha she probably didnt do anything becuse she just sits on her ass all the time" is ignoring the Gilthunder, Liones, Melascula, Indura, Derrieri, Chandler and S&D force battle. So yes, unfair prejudice.
2) You really dont understand deduction do you? Nothing supports your idea that it was Absolute order. It wasn't a technique name when it should've been. What do you suggest happened? Nakaba just thought "might be fun to confuse readers for no reason ." When was the last time full counter was written as a phrase rather than a technique name? The demons didnt drop out of the sky mangled. You're baselessly speculating.
3)"Many of the demons that fled headed in the direction of the Capital"
Notice theres no mention of the ones that didnt flee in the direction of Liones conveniently dropping dead. The demons were ordered to fight. The very act of fleeing was implied by Sariel to be a violation of that order regardless of where they were fleeing. Nothing has suggested that the orders were anything but orders backed by authority, and we have a literal panel of them fleeing with no consequence.

Theres no point in continuing this.

 

[Master of the Sun]

Monspiet vs Dolor
Monspiet vs Gloxinia
Monspiet vs Derieri
Dolor vs Derieri
Dolor vs Gloxinia
Gloxinia vs Derieri
Graylord vs Melascula
AM Meliodas vs 10C
114K+ Escanor vs 10C
King, Diane (starts at 48k), Merlin, Ban, Gowther vs Monspiet, Dolor, Gloxinia, Derieri, Galan
King & Diane (BOTH BOOSTED TO AA TIER) vs Sariel & Tarmiel

 

[HereNThere]

Dolor would probably hold the advantage over Monspiet
Monspiet would probably hold the advatage over Gloxinia
Leaning towards Monspiet
Derieri would probably blow past a lot of Dolor's creations
Leaning towards Dolor
Learning towards Gloxinia
Merascylla
Meliodas
5 Sins vs 5 Commandments is hard to just because we don't know the current limits of two of the Sins
Not sure how we can properly judge the last one. Scaling up their power doesn't really work, in my opinion.

 

[Seven777]

Monspiet vs Dolor
Monspiet vs Gloxinia
Monspiet vs Derieri
Dolor vs Derieri
Dolor vs Gloxinia
Gloxinia vs Derieri
Graylord vs Melascula
AM Meliodas vs 10C
114K+ Escanor vs 10C
King, Diane (starts at 48k), Merlin, Ban, Gowther vs Monspiet, Dolor, Gloxinia, Derieri, Galan
King & Diane (BOTH BOOSTED TO AA TIER) vs Sariel & Tarmiel

Dolor, with his dance he should be second strongest commandment by a wide margin
Gloxinia, all around more impressive and versatile
Monspiet, Trickstar should be good for interrupting Combostar
Dolor
Dolor
Derriere maybe?
Merascula, other than its commandment Graylord didnt seem particularly impressive.
AM Meliodas, has revenge counter
10C, Zeldris with DK power and second demon mark is too dangerous to fight 10v1, plus Graylord
Sins if Merlin can split the demons up with Perfect Cube, if they blitz her then the demons win
Assuming King and Diane ever get to AA tier, i'd put my money on them cause sacred treasure release always seems to put Sins a step beyond their own PL, though i guess King has it released %100 of the time now

 

[Mythoclast]

Monspiet vs Dolor
Monspiet vs Gloxinia
Monspiet vs Derieri
Dolor vs Derieri
Dolor vs Gloxinia
Gloxinia vs Derieri
Graylord vs Melascula
AM Meliodas vs 10C
114K+ Escanor vs 10C
King, Diane (starts at 48k), Merlin, Ban, Gowther vs Monspiet, Dolor, Gloxinia, Derieri, Galan
King & Diane (BOTH BOOSTED TO AA TIER) vs Sariel & Tarmiel

1.Dolor(tho Monspiet could potentially win with Ash dragon)
2.Monspiet
3.Monspiet
4.Once Derierre starts her Combo,there isn't much Dolor can do.
5.Gloxinia could win if he manages to poison Dolor with Death thorns.But I'll give it to Dolor 6/10 times.
6.Derierre
7.Merascylla
8.The 10 Commandments
9.The 10 Commandments.Lol Zeldris by himself could potentially stalemate 114k Escanor
10.Gloxinia beats King,Dolor beats Diane,Galan still beats Merlin,Ban can't really handle all of Derierre's strength and Monspiet beats Gowther.
11.The AA

 

[Shadowlord123]

Monspiet vs Dolor
Monspiet vs Gloxinia
Monspiet vs Derieri
Dolor vs Derieri
Dolor vs Gloxinia
Gloxinia vs Derieri
Graylord vs Melascula
AM Meliodas vs 10C
114K+ Escanor vs 10C
King, Diane (starts at 48k), Merlin, Ban, Gowther vs Monspiet, Dolor, Gloxinia, Derieri, Galan
King & Diane (BOTH BOOSTED TO AA TIER) vs Sariel & Tarmiel

- I'm guessing Drole wins this. The ability to dance coupled with his base of 54K should be pretty beastly, but for some reason Nakaba never never went in-depth with that.

- Monspiet wins. Hard difficulty.

- Monspiet wins, he has a much greater arsenal and versatility than Derieri. Hard difficulty too.

- Drole wins, way better versatility+he could dance to significantly boost his power. Hard difficulty.

- Drole wins. Hard difficulty.

- Could go either way but I think Gloxinia wins more times than not.

- Melascula wins, she has been far more impressive than Grayroad even if the later had a greater PL than her.

- AM Mel oneshots all of them casually except probably Zeldris (if you give him some legit 100K hype) and even then, Zeldris gets destroyed pretty easily. He shouldn't be affected by any of the decrees. The most dangerous one here is Grayroad's but since Mel is immortal, Pacifism doesn't do shit to him. If you factor Indura forms for Derieri, Monspiet and Zeldris, then most likely the commandments win.

- I think the Ten Commandments got this. This Escanor is significantly weaker than AM Mel and Zeldris has some good hype for being 90-100K. That coupled with the other nine members and their hax (specially Grayroad's), should give them the win.

- Leading towards the commandments until we see more of Merlin and Ban (assuming it's post purgatory).

- Dunno. Leading towards the AA with very hard difficulty.

 

[Mythoclast]

- AM Mel oneshots all of them casually except probably Zeldris (if you give him some legit 100K hype) and even then, Zeldris gets destroyed pretty easily. He shouldn't be affected by any of the decrees. The most dangerous one here is Grayroad's but since Mel is immortal, Pacifism doesn't do shit to him. If you factor Indura forms for Derieri, Monspiet and Zeldris, then most likely the commandments win.

Lol what?
He isn't immune to Commandments.
And he's only immortal via resurrection.He doesn't have an indefinite lifespan like Ban,Merlin and the DK.So he's going to get his time stolen from the moment he kills anyone.