Discussion Official Baam Discussion Thread

[shaheer]

Shinworyu + the most powerful weapon in the tower which others of his family sacrifice to keep powering vs a new irregular without all that advantage. I mean seriously i am not sure where the idea of over hyping Urek comes from. As of now we havent seen any one who is stronger than him bar Enryu flashback.

 

[Vitala]

How do you know that arie hon used white oar in his fight with urek, i expect one of the 10 GW to have many weapons, it was just a test so i don't know why he would reveal all his cards especially when there can be a rematch in the future.

@Vitala ok so where would you place Urek, powerwise when you compare with the 10 warriors?

I think he is stronger but i think each GW will give him a run for his money especially when you consider that he can have more struggles agaisnt another GW in comparison to arie hon, Because arie and urek are the typical fighters while there are other GW who can have skills difficult to fight.
Even karaka put GW, Zahard and urek in the same tier.

@tornidooo what make you think urek doesnt have a shinsoo control that can match shinwonryu, he is an irregular, so you think the tower will open his gate for a nobody, did enryu have shinwonryu? I don't think so, but he managed to kill a Guardian. You lost another way to hype urek for nothing.

 

[shaheer]

But zahard and GW arent on same order powerwise. I am not sure how you can say each would give him trouble. Giving trouble is not the same as not being stronger. Urek is stronger than Gustang that was painfully obvious when Gustang said i dont want to piss you off you might destroy my family. I am not sure how you can have it that all of them are in same level of power or sth. They are all irregular sure but even within them you have power difference. Like zahard is stronger than others.Enryu is stronger than probably zahard.
I am asking where you will put Urek weaker than Gustang or stronger than Gustang when you compare with the 10. The 10 arent equally powerful thats quite obvious.

 

[Hussy1234]

Don't use the argument of regular when urek was never a regular, don't call a lion a cat, it's not his name, why do you call an irregular which tower law doesnt apply to him a regular, even baam the most regular of irregular ,SIU said in the blogpost that even baam is not a regular but you guys love to use that argument to push your agenda about urek being a monster when he fought arie hon whle he entered the tower already strong, also in the story arie hon never said urek is stronger than him, he those are blogpost information which SIU said should be taken with a grain of salt.

Wait what.. So you want to say that current Bam and 20th floor Bam are equal in piwer. I think you are reading diffrent tog then. Because with every floor advance irrespective of irregular or regualr their power increases as do move up. A 20th floor Bam and 40th floor Bam is not same in power. So when urek was in 100th floor and current urek are not same in power. Its not like urek entered the tower and from start he had the same power of current urek.

Or you want to say that every irregular are same in power. Then look at Rachel how patheticly weak she is. She is even weaker then most of the normal regular.

 

[Vitala]

Did you even read my comment? They are all in the same level of power even karaka said so.
Did i say gustang is stronger than urek, wonderful.

@Hussy1234 urek entered the tower already strong, he climbed in 50 years just alone, enryu entered at the 43rd floor and killed an admin, phantaminium appeared at Zahard castle and destroyed everyone, what do you have to say now.

 

[Hussy1234]

@Vitala Urek climb the tower normally like how bam is climbing. And we don't know anything about enryu and phanta. They are the towers one of the biggest mystery. And both enryu and phanata are not just normal irregular they are way above all other. One is axis and other is the messenger of God.

But urek climb normally and he also had friends and companions just like bam while climbing.

 

[shaheer]

Did you even read my comment? They are all in the same level of power even karaka said so.
Did i say gustang is stronger than urek, wonderful.

I did and probably i didnt understand if i didnt represent it well. So What if Karaka said so? Gustang himself said he doesnt want to piss Urek off because Urek might destroy his family. Why will i take Karaka s word (a guy who might not have seen an irregular before Urek) over hints and direct statements found in plethora all around the manhwa and blog posts.
When you mean same level of power what does it even mean??? If fight and each will KO other off or die out simultaneously ? or if you have a DBZ scouter they will all have 9000 power level?
Or are you saying Enryu an irregular is same level in power as Gustang?

You didnt say Gustang is stronger than Urek but you are calling guys who said Urek is stronger than Gustang as fanboy when the manhwa has direct interaction between Gustang and Urek and it makes it quite clear that Urek is stronger. If you have 2 individual in same powerlevel what does it imply? Both are equally powerful? if so i would like a clarification as to why Gustang found Euresia more powerful or Hon is said to be stronger than rest or zahard is said to have defeated Hon if they are in same powerlevel.

 

[tornidooo]

@tornidooo what make you think urek doesnt have a shinsoo control that can match shinwonryu, he is an irregular, so you think the tower will open his gate for a nobody, did enryu have shinwonryu? I don't think so, but he managed to kill a Guardian. You lost another way to hype urek for nothing.

Baam is also irregular but he just recently learned the shinwonryu !!
Mazino is irregular but has not learned !!
Maybe because of his pride ''he doesn't want to learn from anyone''
+ Leave enryu aside. As I said, we do not know whether he is using it or not
What we know is that Shinwonryu is much stronger than Shinsoo !!

 

[kkck]

Urek not knowing shinwonryu is something that makes everything around him weird. We know the sheer extent to which shinwonryu makes a difference when fighting after all... Bigger bangs that pack more power into them is not something to scoff at. I wonder if perhaps urek found an alternative to shinwonryu though. Given that revolution is basically about finding yourself I can imagine urek simply not needing one but the shinwonryu gap seems difficult to overcome. Its not implausible that urek is simply so good that even without shinwonryu he can't surpass the family heads but to me it would make more sense if urek has something else to lean on. Urek did fight the red thrysa without any shinsoo so maybe he is simply using some other form of combat from outside the tower. Or again, maybe he simply made his own alternative to shinwonryu. As in, normal shinsoo control resembles water, shinwonryu resembles light..... maybe he made his own version of shinsoo control that resembles another element. I was thinking air since he is from the outside and air is more like a fluid.

 

[shaheer]

Ureks fight without the shinsoo was there to show how maddeningly powerful Irregulars can be, so that Bam gets a hint, and he did. I remember him saying so thats how powerful Irregulars are or something like that in awe. The whole arc was on irregular showing Enryu in action in flashback Urek in action irl and Gustang as a discount visit so that Bam realizes the extent he can shake the whole tower if he wants to.
I dont think he has anything other than shinworyu. His powers are more or less physical and he is a powerhouse in that respect so i doubt he needs that.

 

[tornidooo]

Shinwonryu is special for irregular and can be used without the permission of the guardian
This is not the case with mazino
We saw how thressa prevented him from doing so
So certainly mazino uses the normal shinsoo '' shinsoo contracts''

 

[kkck]

Ureks fight without the shinsoo was there to show how maddeningly powerful Irregulars can be, so that Bam gets a hint, and he did. I remember him saying so thats how powerful Irregulars are or something like that in awe. The whole arc was on irregular showing Enryu in action in flashback Urek in action irl and Gustang as a discount visit so that Bam realizes the extent he can shake the whole tower if he wants to.
I dont think he has anything other than shinworyu. His powers are more or less physical and he is a powerhouse in that respect so i doubt he needs that.

Well, yeah, but I don't think we necessarily know what aspect of shinsoo combat urek excels at. With zahard for instance SIU told us a long time ago that zahard excels at everything but also making the point he was a mostly physical combatant and that his body was overwhelmingly powerful. We saw urek using his physical strength against hell joe but there is the consideration that that was all he had back then. His actual fortes might in reality be elsewhere. As in, maybe he is more like the ha family and his thing is reinforcement.

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 12, 2018, Original Post Date: Nov 12, 2018 ---

Shinwonryu is special for irregular and can be used without the permission of the guardian
This is not the case with mazino
We saw how Tressa prevented him from doing so
So certainly mazino uses the normal shinsoo '' shinsoo contracts''

Wait, that's not what the series has said about irregulars. What was said by the GoGs is that irregulars have permission to use shinsoo since they enter the tower. Since they have permission to use shinsoo from the get go, they have no need to sign contracts with administrators to that end. But the key here is that they absolutely have "permission". With bam things get weird and the series at the time did not address why bam could use shinsoo in spite of the red thrysa taking away shinsoo control. At the time characters speculated it might be because of the thorn. But I would argue that it makes more sense that the red thrysa couldn't take away bam's shinsoo control because of the blue thrysa within him. Urek absolutely has not need of normal shinsoo contracts.

 

[shaheer]

Difference between normal irregular and Bam is both can use shinso without the contract but Bam can use it when admin dont want you to use it. That is because he has admins power inside him. The blue thyssera is the best bet we have. I wonder how can Blue Thyssera and red thyssera survive for so long with Bams inherent power of gluttony. I mean during the soul episode i guess it made sense but long after that these 2 are living inside him without any absorption into Bams 1 self.

 

[Brian Taboada]

Shinwonryu is special for irregular and can be used without the permission of the guardian
This is not the case with mazino
We saw how Thressa prevented him from doing so
So certainly mazino uses the normal shinsoo '' shinsoo contracts''

The whole situation is weird and certainly subject to debate. However, nowhere was it ever stated that Urek cant use Shinwonryu. Maybe he can but just does not use it because it is completely unnecessary for him. He recognized it when Baam used it. However, Baam does not use it all the time either. One thing is for certain, Urek as an irregular does not need a contract to use shinsoo.

The red Thyresa did not deny people the ability to use shinsoo, he literally took all the shinsoo away. Recall the regulars inside the palace and how it was affecting them but not Beta. Why this did not affect Baam is interesting. After all the Red thyresa was/is not the 42nd floor guardian and in theory, everyone there has the ability to use shinsoo freely. They cant use Shinwonryu because that is a different animal. I dont think what the red thyreas did can be replicated on a floor with a guardian as they have control over the shinsoo there. However, we saw that did not stop Enryu. So although Urek is powerful and possibly stronger than Enryu and Baam, he does not enjoy the same relationship with Shinsoo that they do. However, it still does not mean he cant use shinwonryu.

 

[kkck]

The whole situation is weird and certainly subject to debate. However, nowhere was it ever stated that Urek cant use Shinwonryu. Maybe he can but just does not use it because it is completely unnecessary for him. He recognized it when Baam used it. However, Baam does not use it all the time either. One thing is for certain, Urek as an irregular does not need a contract to use shinsoo.

The red Thyresa did not deny people the ability to use shinsoo, he literally took all the shinsoo away. Recall the regulars inside the palace and how it was affecting them but not Beta. Why this did not affect Baam is interesting. After all the Red thyresa was/is not the 42nd floor guardian and in theory, everyone there has the ability to use shinsoo freely. They cant use Shinwonryu because that is a different animal. I dont think what the red thyreas did can be replicated on a floor with a guardian as they have control over the shinsoo there. However, we saw that did not stop Enryu. So although Urek is powerful and possibly stronger than Enryu and Baam, he does not enjoy the same relationship with Shinsoo that they do. However, it still does not mean he cant use shinwonryu.

There are two bits which suggest that urek can't use shinwonryu:

1.- Him not learning it from the GoGs
2.- His reaction to seeing bam use it. It was something like "Oh, that's like what the family heads use". Not "oh, he has already learned shinwonryu" or "oh, he is also a shinwonryu user".

That said, the red thrysa did specifically take away shinsoo control. Or at least, made it so that others could not control it. It shouldn't be possible to just take away shinsoo. The series has made the point that shinsoo exists even in isolated spaces. Can you imagine the implications of actually taking shinsoo away from a place? People would simply choke to death in that scenario.

 

[tornidooo]

Wait, that's not what the series has said about irregulars. What was said by the GoGs is that irregulars have permission to use shinsoo since they enter the tower. Since they have permission to use shinsoo from the get go, they have no need to sign contracts with administrators to that end. But the key here is that they absolutely have "permission". With bam things get weird and the series at the time did not address why bam could use shinsoo in spite of the red thrysa taking away shinsoo control. At the time characters speculated it might be because of the thorn. But I would argue that it makes more sense that the red thrysa couldn't take away bam's shinsoo control because of the blue thrysa within him. Urek absolutely has not need of normal shinsoo contracts.

Certainly irregular they can use shinsoo without contracts
But this applies only to shinwonryu and not normal Shinsoo
shinwonryu is a kind of Shinsoo that can be used without the guardian permission
This is his most important advantage in addition to his strength of course
Permission to use shinsoo without contracts because of the ability to learn shinwonryu
+ I do not think thryssa can prevent zahard and the heads of households from using shinsoo
This is because it is possible to use shinwonryu without permission guardian
shinwonryu is completely independent from them

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 12, 2018, Original Post Date: Nov 12, 2018 ---

The whole situation is weird and certainly subject to debate. However, nowhere was it ever stated that Urek cant use Shinwonryu. Maybe he can but just does not use it because it is completely unnecessary for him. He recognized it when Baam used it. However, Baam does not use it all the time either. One thing is for certain, Urek as an irregular does not need a contract to use shinsoo.

Surely he can
He just did not learn to do it

The red Thyresa did not deny people the ability to use shinsoo, he literally took all the shinsoo away. Recall the regulars inside the palace and how it was affecting them but not Beta. Why this did not affect Baam is interesting. After all the Red thyresa was/is not the 42nd floor guardian and in theory, everyone there has the ability to use shinsoo freely. They cant use Shinwonryu because that is a different animal. I dont think what the red thyreas did can be replicated on a floor with a guardian as they have control over the shinsoo there. However, we saw that did not stop Enryu. So although Urek is powerful and possibly stronger than Enryu and Baam, he does not enjoy the same relationship with Shinsoo that they do. However, it still does not mean he cant use shinwonryu.

He did so at the end of the battle
But not the whole shinsoo

 

[kkck]

Certainly irregular they can use shinsoo without contracts
But this applies only to shinwonryu and not normal Shinsoo
shinwonryu is a kind of Shinsoo that can be used without the guardian permission
This is his most important advantage in addition to his strength of course
Permission to use chinsoo without contracts because of the ability to learn shinwonryu
+ I do not think thressa can prevent zahard and the heads of families from using the shinsoo
This is because it is possible to use shinwonryu without permission guardian
shinwonryu is completely independent from them

That is not how things have been explained. It was never said irregulars permission to use shinsoo from the get go applied only to shinwonryu. Irregulars have permission to use shinsoo from the get go, thats all the manga ever said on the subject. And that obviously applies for shinwonryu as well. What was said on the other hand was that only irregulars could use shinwonryu. And further evidence of that? Bam from early in the story. bam was able to subconsciously control shinsoo even before he ever made a contract. That's how hwa ryun lost her eye.

 

[Brian Taboada]

There are two bits which suggest that urek can't use shinwonryu:

1.- Him not learning it from the GoGs
2.- His reaction to seeing bam use it. It was something like "Oh, that's like what the family heads use". Not "oh, he has already learned shinwonryu" or "oh, he is also a shinwonryu user".

That said, the red thrysa did specifically take away shinsoo control. Or at least, made it so that others could not control it. It shouldn't be possible to just take away shinsoo. The series has made the point that shinsoo exists even in isolated spaces. Can you imagine the implications of actually taking shinsoo away from a place? People would simply choke to death in that scenario.

I think Ureks reaction was because he is slow and just realized Baam was an irregular. And yeah it looked like everyone was chocking

 

[tornidooo]

That is not how things have been explained. It was never said irregulars permission to use shinsoo from the get go applied only to shinwonryu. Irregulars have permission to use shinsoo from the get go, thats all the manga ever said on the subject. And that obviously applies for shinwonryu as well. What was said on the other hand was that only irregulars could use shinwonryu. And further evidence of that? Bam from early in the story. bam was able to subconsciously control shinsoo even before he ever made a contract. That's how hwa ryun lost her eye.

I certainly know that
But this is very vague and happened only once
Then baam made a contract to use the Shinsoo with the guardian
SIU also did not mention once that baam could use normal shinsoo without the guardian permission
Starting from which floor did he start doing it?
If it was that simple he would have explained it several times

 

[kkck]

I think Ureks reaction was because he is slow and just realized Baam was an irregular. And yeah it looked like everyone was chocking

Urek knew bam was an irregular since wolfhaikson helped bam escape from fug at the workshop. They weren't choking even a little bit. They were just unable to move due to the shinsoo currents. Heck, just look at how fine beta was. If there was no shinsoo there then even beta would have choked to death and yet he couldn't even tel there was something wrong with the shinsoo.

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 12, 2018, Original Post Date: Nov 12, 2018 ---

I certainly know that
But this is very vague and happened only once
Then baam made a contract to use the Shinsoo with the guardian
SIU also did not mention once that baam could use normal shinsoo without the guardian permission
Starting from which floor did he start doing it?
If it was that simple he would have explained it several times

It's not vague. Bam at the time used shinsoo without a contract. And much later we learned that he never needed any contracts to use shinsoo thanks to the guardian. This is crystal clear. Of course, bam didn't know that until he was told.