Discussion Official Baam Discussion Thread

[tornidooo]

I said mysterious because we all know what kind of monsters it is baam
It's not weird for me that he did an extraordinary job even between irregular
In the end SIU mentioned the ability to use the shinsoo without the permission of the guardian one time
This time when the shinwonryu appeared
The linkage is very clear between them

 

[Brian Taboada]

Urek knew bam was an irregular since wolfhaikson helped bam escape from fug at the workshop. They weren't choking even a little bit. They were just unable to move due to the shinsoo currents. Heck, just look at how fine beta was. If there was no shinsoo there then even beta would have choked to death and yet he couldn't even tel there was something wrong with the shinsoo.

The Red Thyrea specifically said to Baam "I am going to suck up all the shinsoo in this area and suffocate you and all your companions" See (Chpt 333)

 

[Ripcord]

Urek not knowing shinwonryu is something that makes everything around him weird. We know the sheer extent to which shinwonryu makes a difference when fighting after all... Bigger bangs that pack more power into them is not something to scoff at. I wonder if perhaps urek found an alternative to shinwonryu though. Given that revolution is basically about finding yourself I can imagine urek simply not needing one but the shinwonryu gap seems difficult to overcome. Its not implausible that urek is simply so good that even without shinwonryu he can't surpass the family heads but to me it would make more sense if urek has something else to lean on. Urek did fight the red thrysa without any shinsoo so maybe he is simply using some other form of combat from outside the tower. Or again, maybe he simply made his own alternative to shinwonryu. As in, normal shinsoo control resembles water, shinwonryu resembles light..... maybe he made his own version of shinsoo control that resembles another element. I was thinking air since he is from the outside and air is more like a fluid.

Seems like the GoG has to teach the family heads Shinwonryu and since they ran amok the GoG was reluctant to teach anyone else that ability. If Urek asked for it he might have been able to learn it, but it seems that Urek didn’t even know that it came from the GoG. Plus it would make sense for the ten heads to keep it a secret and not teach Urek - why give up some of their leverage.

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 12, 2018, Original Post Date: Nov 12, 2018 ---

Urek knew bam was an irregular since wolfhaikson helped bam escape from fug at the workshop. They weren't choking even a little bit. They were just unable to move due to the shinsoo currents. Heck, just look at how fine beta was. If there was no shinsoo there then even beta would have choked to death and yet he couldn't even tel there was something wrong with the shinsoo.

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 12, 2018, Original Post Date: Nov 12, 2018 ---

It's not vague. Bam at the time used shinsoo without a contract. And much later we learned that he never needed any contracts to use shinsoo thanks to the guardian. This is crystal clear. Of course, bam didn't know that until he was told.

Actually the Red Thryssa was moving all of the shinsoo - much like when Bam put all the shinsoo into the lighthouse when fighting Alphine. Shinsoo can be moved, heck even Hell Joe did it before he got the Red Thryssa by manipulating the holes in the FoD. The shinsoo hadn’t been completely removed yet but the flow was strong enough to cause problems for most.

Beta it seems has his own source of shinsoo (his demon). I am not sure why he wasn’t affected by the flow as a result of this but he doesn’t rely on the outside shinsoo for his abilities it seems.

I realize now that SIU is really really good about establishing precedent for outrageous things with little ones earlier on. It’s so amazing.

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 12, 2018 ---

Seems like the GoG has to teach the family heads Shinwonryu and since they ran amok the GoG was reluctant to teach anyone else that ability. If Urek asked for it he might have been able to learn it, but it seems that Urek didn’t even know that it came from the GoG. Plus it would make sense for the ten heads to keep it a secret and not teach Urek - why give up some of their leverage.

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 12, 2018, Original Post Date: Nov 12, 2018 ---

Actually the Red Thryssa was moving all of the shinsoo - much like when Bam put all the shinsoo into the lighthouse when fighting Alphine. Shinsoo can be moved, heck even Hell Joe did it before he got the Red Thryssa by manipulating the holes in the FoD. The shinsoo hadn’t been completely removed yet but the flow was strong enough to cause problems for most.

Beta it seems has his own source of shinsoo (his demon). I am not sure why he wasn’t affected by the flow as a result of this but he doesn’t rely on the outside shinsoo for his abilities it seems.

I realize now that SIU is really really good about establishing precedent for outrageous things with little ones earlier on. It’s so amazing.

I feel like he must have a detailed script for ToG written down somewhere.

 

[kkck]

Seems like the GoG has to teach the family heads Shinwonryu and since they ran amok the GoG was reluctant to teach anyone else that ability. If Urek asked for it he might have been able to learn it, but it seems that Urek didn’t even know that it came from the GoG. Plus it would make sense for the ten heads to keep it a secret and not teach Urek - why give up some of their leverage.

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 12, 2018, Original Post Date: Nov 12, 2018 ---

Actually the Red Thryssa was moving all of the shinsoo - much like when Bam put all the shinsoo into the lighthouse when fighting Alphine. Shinsoo can be moved, heck even Hell Joe did it before he got the Red Thryssa by manipulating the holes in the FoD. The shinsoo hadn’t been completely removed yet but the flow was strong enough to cause problems for most.

Beta it seems has his own source of shinsoo (his demon). I am not sure why he wasn’t affected by the flow as a result of this but he doesn’t rely on the outside shinsoo for his abilities it seems.

I realize now that SIU is really really good about establishing precedent for outrageous things with little ones earlier on. It’s so amazing.

Urek didn't seem to involve himself witht he GoGs at all. And yeah, in general it does not seem like the family heads are particularly friendly towards urek.

Sure, the red thrysa was moving it but that is not the same as it literally taking the shinsoo away. Shinsoo is something that covers all of the tower. The lore even makes the point that shinsoo exists everywhere, even "empty" spaces. With that knowledge, the red thrysa actually creating a space entirely devoid of shinsoo would be remarkable. I interpreted that moment as the red thrysa taking control of the shinsoo and moving it but basically in a manner like wind. Its just flowing but there weren't spaces being left behind without shinsoo. At least that isn't the impression I get. I tend to think of shinsoo as an unlimited resource but in extreme situations you might have to compete for it.

 

[Brian Taboada]

@kkck Khun explains in chapter 293 how the whole absorbing and moving shinsoo is possible with the thorn when they were trapped in the room with the anima Fenryl. They created one box for Fenyrl and a second box with the lighthouse so they would not "suffocate" due to the lack of shinsoo in the room.

 

[VON]

as a C-class regular.

How big of a wave do you think it'd make?

iirc, Adori defeated a ranker before she became one herself but we don't know whether she was already an A-class regular or whatever but how big of a news would it be for Baam doing it on the 50ish floor?

 

[Kadir0]

Adori defeated a High ranker is what shocked the tower and the ranking system. I am assuming she was probably A class regular and almost becoming a ranker.

Also Mazino defeated Hoaqin’s father at floor 80, he was a regular and Hoaqin’s father is among the top in tower, it is really amazing achievement.

So Baam achieving a feat higher than Adori’s but not accessive as Mazino’s like to happen. And that will be wrecking rankers in C rank and defeating a high ranker in B rank

 

[VON]

Adori defeated a High ranker is what shocked the tower and the ranking system. I am assuming she was probably A class regular and almost becoming a ranker.

Also Mazino defeated Hoaqin’s father at floor 80, he was a regular and Hoaqin’s father is among the top in tower, it is really amazing achievement.

So Baam achieving a feat higher than Adori’s but not accessive as Mazino’s like to happen. And that will be wrecking rankers in C rank and defeating a high ranker in B rank

oh, damn. I forgot Adori defeated a high ranker instead.

pretty sure Baam gonna take that 100F test of Arie Hon’s too or at least the Administrator’s test since its a special floor. Fully expecting Baam to achieve a new record or something.

since he did achieve a feat most high rankers couldn’t by putting a small crack in Kallavan’s body but he needs to win the fight this time.

 

[kkck]

It would definitely be a huge achievement of course and it would send waves across the tower. As has been the case in the past. In that sense perhaps it is a good thing for bam that he didn't even land a hit on rankers at floor 44 since actually winning would have perhaps given him more fame than he needs or wants at the moment.

As for when bam might defeat a ranker... After the timeskip it is already likely that he can beat a fair number of rankers (though I am not sure 2 years is enough to overcome the at least formerly massive difference skillgap) but his regular protection should be up now. So bam probably won't have to face rankers unless he picks a fight with one himself.

 

[Ripcord]

It would definitely be a huge achievement of course and it would send waves across the tower. As has been the case in the past. In that sense perhaps it is a good thing for bam that he didn't even land a hit on rankers at floor 44 since actually winning would have perhaps given him more fame than he needs or wants at the moment.

As for when bam might defeat a ranker... After the timeskip it is already likely that he can beat a fair number of rankers (though I am not sure 2 years is enough to overcome the at least formerly massive difference skillgap) but his regular protection should be up now. So bam probably won't have to face rankers unless he picks a fight with one himself.

Technically he did hit and injure Kallavan but I’m pretty sure Kallavan is keeping that under wraps. You’re right though that it would bring lots of unwanted attention to Bam.

 

[kkck]

Technically he did hit and injure Kallavan but I’m pretty sure Kallavan is keeping that under wraps. You’re right though that it would bring lots of unwanted attention to Bam.

Ah, right, he did do to kallavan. BUT context. Kallavan pretty much took attacks intentionally and it apparently wasn't bam's raw power that injured him but some other unbeatable BS SIU mentioned.

 

[Ripcord]

Ah, right, he did do to kallavan. BUT context. Kallavan pretty much took attacks intentionally and it apparently wasn't bam's raw power that injured him but some other unbeatable BS SIU mentioned.

It’s not BS... it’s the same force Bam used to hurt Hwaryun and Urek. If this was the first time maybe I’d feel it was BS.

 

[kkck]

It’s not BS... it’s the same force Bam used to hurt Hwaryun and Urek. If this was the first time maybe I’d feel it was BS.

Ah, I know that. Though I am not sure if this is the same thing that hurt hwa ryun. At the time it appeared as if bam simply unintentionally controlled shinsoo. And generally I'll refer to any power that arbitrarily strong and plot breaking as BS, I didn't mean it in a sense that it hadn't been hinted at or seen before.

 

[shaheer]

We dont have time for Bam to go across all 135 floor and till he challenges Zahard unless we are talking about a major time skip. Also Gustang declared sth like a war though recent chap barely shows any effect of Gustang taking away hostages from zahard army. So I would presume the heavy hitters will be down pretty soon to fight with Bam ergo he has to be ready for them.

 

[kkck]

We dont have time for Bam to go across all 135 floor and till he challenges Zahard unless we are talking about a major time skip. Also Gustang declared sth like a war though recent chap barely shows any effect of Gustang taking away hostages from zahard army. So I would presume the heavy hitters will be down pretty soon to fight with Bam ergo he has to be ready for them.

why? The series isn't in any kind of rush overall. And there are still several stops important stops on the way to floor 134. At a minimum floors 77, 100 and 133 have to be a big deal. SIU of course does not have to go through every floor, he usually skips several floors at a time while advancing the story, but the current pace makes sense unless we are actually really close to the story's end.

 

[Jubei_Kibagami]

To answer OP's question, that kind of has already happened. Baam would have, more than likely, defeated clown-face ranker that he was fighting prior to Kallavan.

As far as notoriety? That's sort of already happened as well. The new chapters hint that his deeds at least facing Kalavan and other high rankers and living are getting passed around the grapevine so to say. Without spoiling too much. This is to be expected as that is a huge occurrence. Facing Kallavan and living is arguably more interesting than merely defeating any old ranker.




I also agree we don't have the literal time. Think about how long this series has run in real time, and then think we're only at floor 50. Now almost triple that amount of time to reach the upper floors and have the resolution. SIU could make this series go on forever if he gets into upper floor breakthroughs, thousands of years in the future or past, other towers, axis interactions, etc - but just this one ascension is taking forever.

Baam should be regularly on par with newly ranked rankers by now (if not handily defeating them). There is still enough of a gap from low-tier rankers to high rankers that we'd have plenty of good material to go. We should be well past regulars. Regulars can't hold their weight against data Zahard, or last 5 seconds against Kallavan.

Then, as pointed out, there is the war. Big players and groups have started to move. That will soon take over the run-of-the-mill tower-climbing story. We're going to have to get some bigger skips than we have since Season 3 started. Imagine if real nations took years to go to actual war after a war declaration - this is seemingly too slow-moving. At least IMO.

Even after the milestone floors there is plenty of room to go after Baam gets to the top. The story can continue with the first assault on Zahard failing, and regrouping. There are PLENTY of factions and pro-Zahard high-rankers in the same vein as Kalavan to contend with. There are even bigger things at play than Zahard even (tower government, the workshop, ancient ones' motivations, administrators' motivations, higher floors to go, axis powers, etc).

So the story doesn't have to conclude at 135 by far. Really, that is where it could really take off considering all the pieces in play. There are billions of residents and tens of thousands of rankers. I think we'd be OK if Baam was at least halfway up, or more, and fighting on par with rankers already!

 

[shaheer]

why? The series isn't in any kind of rush overall. And there are still several stops important stops on the way to floor 134. At a minimum floors 77, 100 and 133 have to be a big deal. SIU of course does not have to go through every floor, he usually skips several floors at a time while advancing the story, but the current pace makes sense unless we are actually really close to the story's end.

Zahard mobilised his army and Bam will try to get jinsung back exposing himself again. The idyllic climb to top while getting stronger gradually seems to be a long shot now.
Zahard has yet to mobilise 1-3 squadron and then the rest of the families to make move.
Bam I doubt has much privilege of climbing. He has to brace himself for all out war

 

[Demonspeed]

I mostly agree with @Jubei_Kibagami. That'll be a great moment all but we see people being impressed by his feats all the time. After what he did at the end of S2 there is nothing to prove really. They know how big of a threat he is.

 

[kkck]

Zahard mobilised his army and Bam will try to get jinsung back exposing himself again. The idyllic climb to top while getting stronger gradually seems to be a long shot now.
Zahard has yet to mobilise 1-3 squadron and then the rest of the families to make move.
Bam I doubt has much privilege of climbing. He has to brace himself for all out war

I doubt bam is constantly at risk from being attacked by rankers. At a minimum it was implied that the army had to jump through hoops to actually be able to target regulars at floor 44. It can of course happen again but barring bam picking fights even family heads should not be able to target him any time they want. Even during floor 44 events the rankers there didn't dare interfere with the station and had to rely on hostages. If even under those circumstances rankers didn't dare interfere with the station then it's almost certain that rankers can't do crap to bam nowadays while he remains in regular areas. Bam could climb the tower with no interference whatsoever from rankers provided he doesn't pick fights with one himself and keeps a relatively low profile. Of course because plot that isn't going to happen. Odds are even family heads can't do anything to him while he remains in regular areas unless administrators specifically allow this. Or the family heads are willing to pick fights with administrators. To add to that, bam is probably not too far away from being at a point where only a high ranker can beat him. Heck, even being comparable to a high ranker is plausible (though his skill is probably well short of even a ranker still). Once only high rankers can hope to stop bam from climbing the tower the situation will be that bam will have the empire by the balls. The empire will have only very limited opportunities to target bam and even then only through high rankers because standard rankers and regulars won't do crap to bam. At which point all zahard has to do is wait till bam arrives. If the only way zahard can target bam directly is by manufacturing situations where he is allowed to target bam then bam actually has the upper hand.

 

[shaheer]

I doubt bam is constantly at risk from being attacked by rankers. At a minimum it was implied that the army had to jump through hoops to actually be able to target regulars at floor 44. It can of course happen again but barring bam picking fights even family heads should not be able to target him any time they want. Even during floor 44 events the rankers there didn't dare interfere with the station and had to rely on hostages. If even under those circumstances rankers didn't dare interfere with the station then it's almost certain that rankers can't do crap to bam nowadays while he remains in regular areas. Bam could climb the tower with no interference whatsoever from rankers provided he doesn't pick fights with one himself and keeps a relatively low profile. Of course because plot that isn't going to happen. Odds are even family heads can't do anything to him while he remains in regular areas unless administrators specifically allow this. Or the family heads are willing to pick fights with administrators. To add to that, bam is probably not too far away from being at a point where only a high ranker can beat him. Heck, even being comparable to a high ranker is plausible (though his skill is probably well short of even a ranker still). Once only high rankers can hope to stop bam from climbing the tower the situation will be that bam will have the empire by the balls. The empire will have only very limited opportunities to target bam and even then only through high rankers because standard rankers and regulars won't do crap to bam. At which point all zahard has to do is wait till bam arrives. If the only way zahard can target bam directly is by manufacturing situations where he is allowed to target bam then bam actually has the upper hand.

I see it the other way, The army did engage with Bam and Bam got to fight Charlie and the other rankers in a 2 v 1 fight without a bleep from the admins. Hec he was about to be killed by Kallavan without as much as a snort from the admin. I guess the rules of the Rankers v regulars being a taboo is much less enforced and much more promulgated as absolute.
I am pretty sure that when Bam makes his reappearance the whole tower will swarm to kill him again rankers or otherwise. Bam got away with the vanishing ship and then went into underground fighting arenas thanks to Evankhel and fought and trained there. I guess undergrounds dont really care about these issues that tower faces. However when Bam reappears Zahard squadrons wont loose time to attack him.