Spoiler One Piece Chapter 1195 Spoiler Discussion

[electricmastro]

See that, Sanji can’t have Conqueror’s Haki as long as he succumbs to weakness.

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

See that, Sanji can’t have Conqueror’s Haki as long as he succumbs to weakness.

Don't think it has anything to do with weakness (e.g. Women). Everyone has a weakness, Kaido is an alcoholic.
It's that he can't accept himself for who he is, and he also lacks self-belief.
Sanji hates himself, the fact he has repressed memories also proves he subconsciously has things he doesn't want to confront about himself, his past, and his identity.
Women being a gag isn't going to be what stops him from using Conqueror's Haki.

 

[CharlosTenryuubito]

Don't think it has anything to do with weakness (e.g. Women). Everyone has a weakness, Kaido is an alcoholic.
It's that he can't accept himself for who he is, and he also lacks self-belief.
Sanji hates himself, the fact he has repressed memories also proves he subconsciously has things he doesn't want to confront about himself, his past, and his identity.
Women being a gag isn't going to be what stops him from using Conqueror's Haki.

He hates his own blood. But I wonder how Iva noticed this thing.

 

[Trip_LLL]

Don't think it has anything to do with weakness (e.g. Women). Everyone has a weakness, Kaido is an alcoholic.
It's that he can't accept himself for who he is, and he also lacks self-belief.
Sanji hates himself, the fact he has repressed memories also proves he subconsciously has things he doesn't want to confront about himself, his past, and his identity.
Women being a gag isn't going to be what stops him from using Conqueror's Haki.

Hannibal, just reinforcing your point:

Remember when Kaido's hobby was suicide?
And Zoro is never going to get away from the reality that he has a chance of going the wrong way even when someone points him in the right direction.
And Boa is always going to be strongly submissive to Luffy.
And Big Mom will always be a slave to her appetite to the point that she'll enter whatever dissociative episode you want to call it.


As you pointed out, it's not weaknesses. These people above have strong weaknesses. But even then, they were always strongly themselves.
Sanji's the only one with the self loathing to the point when things start going weird, he defaults to doubting his nature and thinking he's becoming a monster. (referencing Wano. Compare and contrast to Chopper, who when given the opportunity, decided he would become a monster for Luffy.)

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

Hannibal, just reinforcing your point:

Remember when Kaido's hobby was suicide?
And Zoro is never going to get away from the reality that he has a chance of going the wrong way even when someone points him in the right direction.
And Boa is always going to be strongly submissive to Luffy.
And Big Mom will always be a slave to her appetite to the point that she'll enter whatever dissociative episode you want to call it.


As you pointed out, it's not weaknesses. These people above have strong weaknesses. But even then, they were always strongly themselves.
Sanji's the only one with the self loathing to the point when things start going weird, he defaults to doubting his nature and thinking he's becoming a monster. (referencing Wano. Compare and contrast to Chopper, who when given the opportunity, decided he would become a monster for Luffy.)

And even overconfidence/confidence can be a weakness too. I think as you are suggesting, it's more of a self-acceptance issue.

He hates his own blood. But I wonder how Iva noticed this thing.

When you spend time with people, you can see their character.
Someone who always makes self-deprecating jokes not just now and then, but all the time may be someone who lacks confidence.
We all know or have known people that hate themselves for whatever reason even if they don't explicitly tell us.
A mother can know things about her child that he/she never mentions, but she just knows from observation and feeling. I'd imagine Ivankov is just a very perceptive person too.

 

[Drakrami]

lol.. looks like the plot is going to develop into Imu will be forced to retreat because he brought too weak subordinates. Of course One Piece is never predictable.

 

[Crazytype]

I mean I understand why they rely on their immortality so much. Its crazy how fast they regenerate. We see it it the last panel where Sanji used Ifrit Jumble. Killingham regenerates in the same instant when Sanji is still in the atack motion. Also is this the first time where Sanji is not fighting the clearly weaker opponent in comparison to Zorro?

 

[kkck]

So Killingham can fire laser beams at sanji with his spear but Sommers is not using gram's explosions? I wonder if Gram has some sort of recharge time which imu inconveniently used up before.

Looking at the translation... It does seem to be about some deep seated self hatred. His hell memories seem relevant to this but by all appearances this goes further back than his tima at okama island. My guess is that there's just a bit of everything feeding into sanji's self hatred. Him being born into the vinsmoke royal family, his treatment by them, the fact that he left without reiju, the sacrifice zeff made to save his life... Sanji has gone through a lot of almost uniquely traumatic shit. Obviously he isn't the only one to go through stuff but it feels like with sanji it was more constant.

Regarding Iva and Gaban, my guess is that they have the... sensitivity to detect sanji's lack of self worth and point it out. But I don't expect them to be psychic and know the details.

Going back through chapters, sanji's time as a maiden with the okama was caused by an okama using some hypnosis type technique on him. It wouldn't be too weird that sanji's hell memories have more of this except it was done in an attempt to have him forcefully confront his baggage. And of course, sanji repressed it.

 

[Phaizzy]

Awh. Okay. Nvm. It makes sense.

Sanji past is what has been keeping him back.

It seems he lacks self worth and the only way he feel he can truly contribute is by sacrificing himself. I assume his family upbringing is what caused that. Made him feel worthless. Along with his time with Zeff etc

That’s interesting that ODA tied that in well.

--- Double Post Merged, Yesterday at 5:54 PM, Original Post Date: Yesterday at 5:51 PM ---

I mean I understand why they rely on their immortality so much. Its crazy how fast they regenerate. We see it it the last panel where Sanji used Ifrit Jumble. Killingham regenerates in the same instant when Sanji is still in the atack motion. Also is this the first time where Sanji is not fighting the clearly weaker opponent in comparison to Zorro?

Ehhh.. in retrospect…. Between Sommers and Killingham.. they both are around the same level strength wise.

Killingham just has a broken df.. which he’s not even using properly.

Based off feats and strength wise…

Gunko > Shamrock > Killingham/Sommers

And I say based off FEATS. Feat wise Gunko did more damage to everybody even without IMU Taking over. All shamrock did was use a df ability on a weakened and chained up Loki.

 

[HereNThere]

I would've preferred Zeff or, more appropriately, Sora, but Iva's influence on Sanji has been underdeveloped, so this is cool. Also doesn't discount the other two appearing in the flashback later as well.

Many fans who paid attention to Sanji's characterization called out his self sacrificial nature, so it being addressed by Oda through Iva all but confirms it being an intentional weakness. And, as I'd hoped, it will likely be the final component of the ongoing character arc Sanji's had since Zou basically. He's been slowly learning that he has a right to live how he wants and not sacrifice himself, be it by dying or through subservience, in a misplaced sense of loyalty or debt.

Given Oda's own growth over the years with characters like Kiku and Yamato, I would suspect that the infamous "gag" is not going to be focused on beyond Sanji's unwillingness to think back to his training. Hopefully anyhow.

Also, Longinus being a laser weapon sets up a potential reveal on how Sanji deflected Kizaru's laser in Egghead.

All that's really left is the mystery of why Sanji can produce flames.

Pacing has sucked for this arc, but we're finally at the part I was most interested in.

Also is this the first time where Sanji is not fighting the clearly weaker opponent in comparison to Zorro?

It's less a difference in power and moreso a difference in attitude, I'd say. Killingham can afford to be cocky and reckless since he knows that Sanji (at the moment) has no ability to truly harm him, despite Sanji, technically, trashing him physically.

Sommers, on the flipside, was constantly on edge as he knew Zoro had SKH and knew about the Steel Heart.

 

[wing_gundam]

I don't think this is Sanji coming out of the closet.

I think this is more like Sanji's over-arching need to Sacrifice himself is that he think's he's useless. CoC is all about confidence.

I think his self sacrifice might either be shaped by his obsession to be loved (thinking women would throw themselves at him - common trope) and even Zeff's self sacrifice of his leg (and maybe life) to give Sanji food. Like it's his most core memory.

This flashback is going to be more Sanji figuring out his own self worth (which might actually attract a woman lol) will lead to his Coc awakening.


[The more I type out CoC the more I realize is just like being cocky or Peacocking - but with substance. It was there all along]

 

[HakunaMatata]

Poor Sanji went full Frank Reynolds.

Except for the fact that we're supposed to accept that he's going to use ACoC way too soon (unless it's unconsciously like Zoro in Wano), Oda is handling Sanji's power up way better than Zoro's.

 

[kkck]

Hmm, if oda is looking to reframe all of sanji's sacrifices for his crew before... I do hope he does it in a way that doesn't taint them. Sanji's willingness to sacrifice for his friends is something that is worth respecting the character for so it'd be sad to suddenly get a realization that he didn't do it out of love or loyalty to his friends.

 

[AmyRose]

So Killingham can fire laser beams at sanji with his spear but Sommers is not using gram's explosions? I wonder if Gram has some sort of recharge time which imu inconveniently used up before.

Honestly I'm not surprised here because Sommers is just overconfident and stupid jerk. I'm not even sure if he know how to properly use Gram. Hmm, I actually feel like Zoro got "misplaced" and should fight Killingham instead. You know, because as far as I know Sanjis fire can deal with his thorns. But I guess Zoro was put to fight against Sommers only because he saw that metal heart and realised on the spot that it could be key to killing an immortal.

 

[ViscountVivaciousVirtuoso]

lol.. looks like the plot is going to develop into Imu will be forced to retreat because he brought too weak subordinates. Of course One Piece is never predictable.

Really? I am waiting for them to do some super transformation stage 2 awakening type shit like in Bleach when the Arrancar bring out their Fullbring or something equally ridiculous.

 

[AmyRose]

Hmm, if oda is looking to reframe all of sanji's sacrifices for his crew before... I do hope he does it in a way that doesn't taint them. Sanji's willingness to sacrifice for his friends is something that is worth respecting the character for so it'd be sad to suddenly get a realization that he didn't do it out of love or loyalty to his friends.

Oh THAT would be really disapointing. I love that about Sanji but I swear to God that if Oda for some reason spin Sanjis willingness to sacrefice himself to protect his loved ones into weakness I will lose little bit of respect for him. But I don't think this will happen. Willingness to make sacrefices for sake of others and thinking soo lowly about yourself that you think your life is worth something only if it's used for others are two diffrent things. That's the diffrence between "hero" who on top of protecting others also protect himself and sacreficial sheep who live ONLY for others. Btw, I know people are now joking that despit his very obvious attraction to womans Sanji is secretly a gay or okama that haven't came out just yet and he should actually "came out" to gain conqueror but here's a thing. I always finded it quite concerning how fast and easily he got temporarily converted into okama. It makes me think that he never really had clear image of himself and who he really is and all of that despit fact that he is selfproclaimed "ladies man". I guess THAT'S the thing he need to figure out to become more powerful.