One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

[goldb]

Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
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As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.

It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.

• For the sake of constructive discussion, where and when possible please quote/ source any information you provide. Particularly when it comes to conversations carried over from other threads.
• Avoid passive agressive posts, sly remarks or baiting/trolling. You can certainly have fun or disagree without it being at someone's expense.
• Only use anime examples that are canon and as means to provide clarity to pages in the manga. Any other anime material is otherwise non-canon and should only be referenced if it can be proved that the mangaka had approved it.
• We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.

As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

1. Shanks v Mihawk
2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
3. Zoro > Luffy
4. Zoro v Sanji
5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
6. Mihawk's rank within the story
7. Law having CoC currently.
8. Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.

If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.

This is the only warning there'll be regarding these ground rules, anything no adhering will be removed. So please just check your posts before posting them.

 

[AINSOOALGOWN_SAMA]

The way i see it Luffy's adventure is somewhat of a parrallel to Rogers. I think that Roger was also an underdog and was struggling quite a bit before he became pirate king.
So I think that Roger will be as strong as what ever Luffy will be EOS.

I agree with your first line.

But I think it's Luffy who will be compared to Roger in strength EoS not the other way around.
The way they've narrated it in the story implies Roger had always been stronger than most people even when young. Same as Whitebeard, Big Mom, Akainu and Kizaru.
The last 3 were said to be monsters already even when they were very young. So I feel Roger belongs to that bracket.

Luffy's a little different but even he is going to be ridiculously strong while barely hitting 20. In fact stronger than everyone else above if we consider power to age ratio.

Big Mom before (or was it in) her teens was considered to having the potential of becoming an Admiral or Fleet Admiral cos that's the top of the line power level in the navy.
While as pirates, the top of the line power level is Yonko or Pirate King, and she became just that.

When Garp was training Luffy as a child, he was also envisioning him to become the strongest of marines, that is Admiral/Fleet Admiral level.
Meanwhile, he instead took his own decision to be the polar opposite of his grandfather's wish and now wants to become the strongest of pirates, that is Yonko/Pirate King level.

The biggest question now is will Luffy be equal, stronger, or weaker than Roger EoS?
Well... This is a Shounen after all so we already know the answer.

 

[Fox666]

I was joking... but they could have used better comparison given what we were told about Zoro and Sanji. That's little to no hype even though it's from THEIR point of view, and they probably consider that impressive.

I don't think Kinemon is that weak, I assume he's like the Supernovas before the time-skip.

 

[AINSOOALGOWN_SAMA]

I don't think Kinemon is that weak, I assume he's like the Supernovas before the time-skip.

He should be far stronger than that since he can use Haki which non of the pre TS Supernova had and Haki makes the difference in the New World. I'll at least rate him around the level of Doffy's executives.

Plus, I don't think it's a good idea to judge his first encounter with Law since anyone who faces Law without knowing about the workings of his DF is pretty much at a huge disadvantage.
Even Trebol who should be privy of this got instantly defeated the moment he engaged Law, disregarding his room abilities.

Kin still has to prove where he belongs in the power levels and I feel this is the best arc for that. He might be weaker than the other Red Sheaths but I hope it isn't by much.

 

[Fox666]

Kinemon isn't anywhere close to Doflamingo executives, given his reaction to Zoro and Pica battle.

 

[AINSOOALGOWN_SAMA]

Kinemon isn't anywhere close to Doflamingo executives, given his reaction to Zoro and Pica battle.

Well... Doflamingo's executives is not limited to the likes of Vergo and Pica. There are other weaker but decent fighters there as well who'd be fair game for Kinemon. A good example is Trebol.

 

[Fox666]

I suppose Diamante, Pica and Trebol are equal in power. If Kinemon screamed in terror from Pica, I don't he would be a match for the other two either. Diamante and Trebol also have shown some surprising feats, unlike Kinemon.

 

[AINSOOALGOWN_SAMA]

I suppose Diamante, Pica and Trebol are equal in power. If Kinemon screamed in terror from Pica, I don't he would be a match for the other two either. Diamante and Trebol also have shown some surprising feats, unlike Kinemon.

They might be similar in physical strength, but not in destructive ability. Pica's the only one whose devil fruit is extremely destructive among the 3 which is the reason most people screamed (like Kinemon and Usopp in the panel) and ran during the Dressrosa turmoil. He could easily crush multiple capable fighters in one go and it's all thanks to the DF. Take that away and even Pica is fair game for any decent fighter.

As for Diamante, he's decent but nothing special outside his awakening. It took Kyros, who's physically very powerful but lacks Haki to defeat him.
I know he's like a legend among gladiators but still...

 

[XXGenesis]

@Fox666 You do know All of Doffy family were executives..From Gladius, baby5 etc...he had a top 3 executives but they were all considered to have the same titles..just different ranks

 

[Fox666]

They might be similar in physical strength, but not in destructive ability. Pica's the only one whose devil fruit is extremely destructive among the 3 which is the reason most people screamed (like Kinemon and Usopp in the panel) and ran during the Dressrosa turmoil. He could easily crush multiple capable fighters in one go and it's all thanks to the DF. Take that away and even Pica is fair game for any decent fighter.

As for Diamante, he's decent but nothing special outside his awakening. It took Kyros, who's physically very powerful but lacks Haki to defeat him.
I know he's like a legend among gladiators but still...

I would say that Kyros was very strong, almost as much as Zoro. That is why Diamante lost.

Define destructive power? Trebol ability allowed him to immobilize even the likes of Chinjao. Kyros long-ranged slash is similar to the ones Zoro used to cut Pica's statue.

 

[XXGenesis]

I would say that Kyros was very strong, almost as much as Zoro. That is why Diamante lost.

Define destructive power? Trebol ability allowed him to immobilize even the likes of Chinjao. Kyros long-ranged slash is similar to the ones Zoro used to cut Pica's statue.

You should definitely highlight ALMOST. Kyros is strong but he's not fashionably strong. He has no techiques, specific skill, or anything that makes him stand out, he didnt even show haki usage..Yet he was a fierce beast with a sword with only 1 leg...Also when did Kyros use a flying slash?! He never used any such technique, not even against diamante.

Your are probably confonfusing Kyros & Kimenom. Kimone can cut through steel and has a flying slash technique.

Kyros tho, is a one leg gladiator warrior, who was simply superior to someone like Diamante. I think Brook & Kimenom would lost against him. However Zoro has too many superior sword techniques that would do him in.

 

[AINSOOALGOWN_SAMA]

I would say that Kyros was very strong, almost as much as Zoro. That is why Diamante lost.

Define destructive power? Trebol ability allowed him to immobilize even the likes of Chinjao. Kyros long-ranged slash is similar to the ones Zoro used to cut Pica's statue.

Destructive power:
The ability to cause massive calamitous damage to people, surrounding area, etc.

This is one of the advantages certain DF abilities give like the Gura Gura no mi, Yami Yami no mi, Magma DF, Mera Mera no mi, Aokiji's DF, Magellan's DF, Fujitora's DF, Pica's DF (forgot the names)...

These fruits in combat can cause massive destruction to the environment and results in multiple casualties regardless of how weak or strong their wielder physically is.

Pica can easily change a landscape if he so wishes and can destroy an entire city in the blink of an eye.
Is he physically able to do this though? No
It's bcos his DF granted him such a destructive ability.

Immobilising people does not make a DF destructive. Trebol's DF is far from that.
Katakuri's DF can do even worse (in terms of immobilising), doesn't make it destructive.
Doffy's strings though, now that's fairly destructive.

--- Double Post Merged, Aug 29, 2019, Original Post Date: Aug 29, 2019 ---

I would say that Kyros was very strong, almost as much as Zoro. That is why Diamante lost.

Define destructive power? Trebol ability allowed him to immobilize even the likes of Chinjao. Kyros long-ranged slash is similar to the ones Zoro used to cut Pica's statue.

Like I said, Kyros is physically strong. But he's definitely not as skilled with a sword as your average Wano Samurai. Not to mention he lacks Haki/Ryou which is everything in the New World.
Against a weakling Logia like Caesar or even a decent one in Smoker, it's game over for him.

 

[Fox666]

Immobilising people does not make a DF destructive. Trebol's DF is far from that.
Katakuri's DF can do even worse (in terms of immobilising), doesn't make it destructive.
Doffy's strings though, now that's fairly destructive.

Nah, above certain level characters can easily do stuff like that. Doflamingo almost destroyed the entire Dressrosa with Bird Cage. I'm sure Katakuri could also do a lot of collateral damage if he wanted to. Luffy split the ground of Dressrosa in half with Gear 4, and Katakuri must not be so behind it with his fists alone.

 

[AINSOOALGOWN_SAMA]

What if kyros does know haki ?

He doesn't. If he did, Doflamingo would be at least injured when he slashed him from point blank range.
Moreover it'd have been shown he could use it with all the screen time he got during Dressrosa. He's clearly hakiless. Just like Brook.

Maybe kyros was not shown using haki to highlight extreme skill on a "normal human" and to represent a pinnacle of that.

That's also likely. Totally agree

 

[Fox666]

If I recall Kyros cut the head of Doflamingo doll?

 

[AINSOOALGOWN_SAMA]

Nah, above certain level characters can easily do stuff like that. Doflamingo almost destroyed the entire Dressrosa with Bird Cage. I'm sure Katakuri could also do a lot of collateral damage if he wanted to. Luffy split the ground of Dressrosa in half with Gear 4, and Katakuri must not be so behind it with his fists alone.

Luffy's DF is far from destructive. Only his G4 technique comes even close to being destructive. Likewise Katakuri, his DF isn't naturally destructive.
If it were, the mirror world should mostly be in ruin.

These guys (with destructive DF abilities I mentioned in my previous post) can effortlessly destroy virtually everything in their surroundings with minimal effort.

You are mixing up being super strong with having destructive abilities.

Take Kuma's paw paw DF and Kizaru's light DF for example. There are no instances where they are used in which the surrounding isn't taken collateral damage.
These fruits are naturally destructive.

Note: I'm not talking about the characters themselves, just their DFs.

--- Double Post Merged, Aug 29, 2019, Original Post Date: Aug 29, 2019 ---

If I recall Kyros cut the head of Doflamingo doll?

Nope it was Doflamingo himself. But the cut split him in two without him taking damage like a Logia (remember he's awakened all along) since it was Hakiless.
Before that slash got to his neck the look on Doffy's face was that of a goner. It's a shame Kyros had no Haki, we'd have had the Dressrosa arc cut short prematurely.
He made strings out of his beheaded self to complete the remaining body (as a string double) and regrew his other body without a head a new one.
Katakuri did the same in his fight with Luffy were he launched his arm, cut-off entirely from his body, and regrew a new one shortly afterwards.
It's most likely an awakening thing.


Edit: Ignore this BS. Lol...

 

[Fox666]

It was a doll. Doflamingo can't survive being cut in half. :x

Katakuri is a special Paramecia (aka retconned Logia).

 

[AINSOOALGOWN_SAMA]

Seems actually pretty weird that he would not as his willpower is definetely top tier and haki seems to be related to willpower.

They also say that haki blooms in extreme conditions and hed had a life full of that.

Haki is not will power, it's a distinct ability in the world of One Piece.
Pre TS Luffy had all the will power in the world and couldn't use Haki.

Haki blooms in extreme conditions of battle - not just any extreme condition. We'd have had normal humans living in the crazy weather regions utilising Haki if it worked that way.
We also know that Kyros was the number 1 gladiator in Dressrosa who hadn't lost a single battle and nothing suggested he had any difficulty becoming one. It's very clear the gladiators of Dressrosa were majorly fodders. Even the characters that came for the tournament were mostly fodders and were still stronger than the fodders that are the Dressrosa gladiators.

There's no need to find excuse when the writer's made it clear in his portrayal of a character. He didn't give Kyros Haki. Kyros is Hakiless. He didn't give Brooks Haki. Brooks remains Hakiless.
It's better accepting the facts than to look for excuses.

--- Double Post Merged, Aug 29, 2019, Original Post Date: Aug 29, 2019 ---

It was a doll. Doflamingo can't survive being cut in half. :x

Katakuri is a special Paramecia (aka retconned Logia).

You are right! It's been many years since I last read that chapter (or the arc to begin with).
Can't believe I'd always thought Doflamingo to have survived being split in two. Just checked and it seems the real Doflamingo was hiding himself somewhere expecting his plans to fall apart and created a double in anticipation.

--- Double Post Merged, Aug 29, 2019 ---

If I recall Kyros cut the head of Doflamingo doll?

Still... Doesn't change the fact that he has no Haki.

 

[hokageji]

I would say that Kyros was very strong, almost as much as Zoro. That is why Diamante lost.

Define destructive power? Trebol ability allowed him to immobilize even the likes of Chinjao. Kyros long-ranged slash is similar to the ones Zoro used to cut Pica's statue.

Also, dont you think Pica had geographical advantage? Imagine Pica in a land without stone or rocks, or atleast limited, he wouldn't be able to move around in the manner he did. His evasive skill is what made him insanely difficult to beat and Zoro couldn't do shit till then.

 

[AINSOOALGOWN_SAMA]

Also, dont you think Pica had geographical advantage? Imagine Pica in a land without stone or rocks, or atleast limited, he wouldn't be able to move around in the manner he did. His evasive skill is what made him insanely difficult to beat and Zoro couldn't do shit till then.

I wonder if his DF would work in sandy regions like Alabasta

Dressrosa is a pretty rocky/hilly land well suited to making Pica OP.

 

[hokageji]

That is exactly my point. His Paramecia didnt create rocks as far as we know it, but allowed him to become one with them.

I would rank him below Pica and Diamante if they had to battle elsewhere....