One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

[goldb]

Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
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As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.

It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.

• For the sake of constructive discussion, where and when possible please quote/ source any information you provide. Particularly when it comes to conversations carried over from other threads.
• Avoid passive agressive posts, sly remarks or baiting/trolling. You can certainly have fun or disagree without it being at someone's expense.
• Only use anime examples that are canon and as means to provide clarity to pages in the manga. Any other anime material is otherwise non-canon and should only be referenced if it can be proved that the mangaka had approved it.
• We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.

As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

1. Shanks v Mihawk
2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
3. Zoro > Luffy
4. Zoro v Sanji
5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
6. Mihawk's rank within the story
7. Law having CoC currently.
8. Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.

If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.

This is the only warning there'll be regarding these ground rules, anything no adhering will be removed. So please just check your posts before posting them.

 

[nik87]

Break it.
If you think Pica is invincible against blows, you are vastly underestimating the feats of One Piece characters.

If he can break one hand coming at his, he should feel lucky because that took ice-continent splitter Dragon nail and semi charged King's punch to do and it recovered basically instantly the moment Pica wanted it to regenerate...
He cant beat Pica in a million years with his DC.

who a few chapters earlier was kicking Wadatsumi around, who is near the size of Pica's statue.

If only Wadatsumi was Pica's size and if only he was full of stone instead being a blow fish full of air...

 

[thedude]

Both had the same and were on the same lvl.

Says...you? The manga literally hyped Vergo's haki above all others. He bragged about it as he destroyed Smokers weapon with his bamboo staff clad in haki. And then there is Doflamingo saying how amazing it is:

One Piece Chapter 690 Page 15

Read One Piece Chapter 690 Page 15 Online For Free

mangaseeonline.us

There is literally nothing that shows Pica having haki as strong as Vergo. No one acknowledged it the way Vergo's was.

--- Double Post Merged, May 1, 2020, Original Post Date: May 1, 2020 ---

With Pica being stronger since he had an OP ability

Lol, he didn't even use his DF when he clad his body in haki so what would that have to do with it??

Let's not make things up fellas...

 

[Shasha23]

Lol, he didn't even use his DF when he clad his body in haki so what would that have to do with it??

Didn't i just say his DF made him OP?
Where in my post did i talk about whose haki is better than whose?

Let's not make things up fellas...

You never pause and think before you post do you?

 

[albertwv]

Pre TS Luffy vs Mihawk, seriously? You're using that fight to make a point that swordmen have an advantage. We all know Luffy would've lost that fight no doubt about that but, saying that he cant counter someone with a sword is ridiculous. Post TS Luffy fought Doffy's strings that can be almost the same as swords. Countered. Luffy fought Cracker who had a sword. Countered. PRE TS Luffy fought Arlong who had a Bladed weapon. Countered.
A sword is just a regular weapon, just like Smoker's Seastone weapon, WB's Bisento, Katakuri's Spear, Enel's Staff etc.
None of my points have been debunked but rather yours.

How come Vergo showed his haki while fighting Smoker and Law but not agaisnt Sanji? Oda had drawn Haki by then. It clearly shows Vergo was never serious fighting Sanji.
Vergo vs. Pica. I say Vergo> Pica but Pica can only win if he hides in his DF. Also Luffy was able to smash Pica's statue but he didnt damage Pica himself. So I see Vergo having a hard time fighting Pica's statue. They are close in strength. Vergo>Pica>Trebol>Diamante. Honestly, I don't see PH Sanji being able to beat Pica. He has to get Pica out of his statue and then maybe Sanji can defeat Pica's Haki.

I dont see why people keep denying that Vergo > PH Sanji.

 

[thedude]

Didn't i just say his DF made him OP?
Where in my post did i talk about whose haki is better than whose?



You never pause and think before you post do you?

You are responding to a comment comparing their haki, and adding on to it. Forgive me for thinking you are agreeing with the comment you are agreeing with and adding on to...how foolish of me!

 

[Shasha23]

How come Vergo showed his haki while fighting Smoker and Law but not agaisnt Sanji? Oda had drawn Haki by then. It clin stearly shows Vergo was never serious fighting Sanji.

This doesn't even need to be debated, Vergo was never serious fighting Sanji period

Vergo vs. Pica. I say Vergo> Pica but Pica can only win if he hides in his DF. Also Luffy was able to smash Pica's statue but he didnt damage Pica himself. So I see Vergo having a hard time fighting Pica's statue. They are close in strength. Vergo>Pica>Trebol>Diamante. Honestly, I don't see PH Sanji being able to beat Pica. He has to get Pica out of his statue and then maybe Sanji can defeat Pica's Haki.

Vergo has no way of beating Pica if Pica uses his devil fruit, and since he fights all the time with his ability he is clearly stronger than Vergo, by feat shown its more like this: Pica>Vergo>Diamante>Trebol.
True Sanji would have had no hope of beating Pica, and even if he Pica came out Sanji still would have no way of overpowering Pica's CoA which is stronger than his.

I dont see why people keep denying that Vergo > PH Sanji.

They wont accept it because Zoro beat Pica who was stronger, by their logic Sanji would win as well even though manga feats prove otherwise

 

[thedude]

Pre TS Luffy vs Mihawk, seriously? You're using that fight to make a point that swordmen have an advantage. We all know Luffy would've lost that fight no doubt about that but, saying that he cant counter someone with a sword is ridiculous. Post TS Luffy fought Doffy's strings that can be almost the same as swords. Countered. Luffy fought Cracker who had a sword. Countered. PRE TS Luffy fought Arlong who had a Bladed weapon. Countered.
A sword is just a regular weapon, just like Smoker's Seastone weapon, WB's Bisento, Katakuri's Spear, Enel's Staff etc.
None of my points have been debunked but rather yours.

How come Vergo showed his haki while fighting Smoker and Law but not agaisnt Sanji? Oda had drawn Haki by then. It clearly shows Vergo was never serious fighting Sanji.
Vergo vs. Pica. I say Vergo> Pica but Pica can only win if he hides in his DF. Also Luffy was able to smash Pica's statue but he didnt damage Pica himself. So I see Vergo having a hard time fighting Pica's statue. They are close in strength. Vergo>Pica>Trebol>Diamante. Honestly, I don't see PH Sanji being able to beat Pica. He has to get Pica out of his statue and then maybe Sanji can defeat Pica's Haki.

I dont see why people keep denying that Vergo > PH Sanji.

I think he was using haki vs Sanji. Sanji noted that he felt like metal. Against smoker you saw it more because he fully covered his body in it (but you didn't see it on his legs since he wore pants).

 

[Shasha23]

I think he was using haki vs Sanji. Sanji noted that he felt like metal. Against smoker you saw it more because he fully covered his body in it.

He never used haki, the one time he was about to use a haki punch, the story panned out and focus on something else and when it returned back to Sanji he commented that it would be bad for him if the fight continued.
Vergo being hard was because of tekkai.

(but you didn't see it on his legs since he wore pants).

Oda made it very clear when Vergo was using haki and when he wasn't, you cant claim its because it wasn't shown, saying that just goes against the manga and the author!

 

[thedude]

He never used haki, the one time he was about to use a haki punch, the story panned out and focus on something else and when it returned back to Sanji he commented that it would be bad for him if the fight continued.
Vergo being hard was because of tekkai.



Oda made it very clear when Vergo was using haki and when he wasn't, you cant claim its because it wasn't shown, saying that just goes against the manga and the author!

Did he ever say tekkai? Don't say I"m making stuff up and then say he's using tekkai when he never said he used it. We see him using haki, not tekkai. Never once does he reference it (in the translations I've seen), so given his constant use of haki,it is far more logical to assume he's using that.

And we did see him use full body haki, and his pants covered up seeing it on his legs, so there is precedent for that, a mere 10 chapters after his fight with Sanji.

In terms of strength, it should also be noted that Vergo was a Vice Admiral. That's a pretty strong level on its own. I see nothing to show Pica is at that level. Pica has a great DF, no doubt about that. But Vergo's strength was second only to Doflamingo.

 

[Shasha23]

Did he ever say tekkai? Don't say I"m making stuff up and then say he's using tekkai when he never said he used it. We see him using haki, not tekkai. Never once does he reference it (in the translations I've seen), so given his constant use of haki,it is far more logical to assume he's using that.

And we did see him use full body haki, and his pants covered up seeing it on his legs, so there is precedent for that, a mere 10 chapters after his fight with Sanji.

No just like he never said shigan, geppo or soru.
Vergo was using rokushiki and he never once said the ability before using it because it was obvious to see, or are you going to say he wasn't using shigan to kill G5 or that he didn't use geppo to reach Law or that he never used soru in his fight with Smoker and Law just cause he didn't say it out loud?
Every time he used haki it was shown, why then wasn't it shown when he kicked Sanji but shown when he punched him?
It is not logical to assume anything, since we dont need assumptions when the story has clearly indicated when something is being used and when it isn't!

He never used full-body haki on Sanji and that is what we are talking about now!

 

[M3J]

We actually didnt get to see it. It is hidden behind a mist.
It is no issue for Oda to show Zoro eating a punch but good luck showing Luffy eating a sword slice across his face...

He can thanks to haki.

Oda doesn't know how to write a fight between a swordsman and a non-swordsman realistically. So his logic will literally come down to "Sandals can be just as strong as blades!"

I don't think that's the issue, but Oda just wanted to have fun with it. OP isn't about being realistic, or too realistic anyway.

We may not have seen Vergo himself doing something like that, but he almost broke Sanji's legs, who a few chapters earlier was kicking Wadatsumi around, who is near the size of Pica's statue.

Beating Wadatsumi is not a feat at all, especially when he was mostly air at his biggest size. Zoro wouldn't even need haki to slash him to pieces.

And out of the three, Sanji would have the most difficulty beating Pica because he doesn't have an ability to reduce a huge stone's surface area into pieces quickly like slashes and gatling gun do. BUt he'd still have a chance of winning.

I dont see why people keep denying that Vergo > PH Sanji.

Because it's not a fact and has been disproven and debunked many times. No one has been able to come up with an actual argument as to why this is correct, and especially not without ignoring Sanji's battered body and still moving around like he's at 100% despite the fractured leg. This whole debate goes around in circles.

They wont accept it because Zoro beat Pica who was stronger, by their logic Sanji would win as well even though manga feats prove otherwise

Continuing this shitty logic as per usual. This has nothing to do with Zoro and everything to do with what the manga showed us. Manga has never stated Sanji would to Vergo, not even once.

 

[nik87]

He can thanks to haki.

He didnt have Haki in WP and even with Haki, nothing changes. He will never be able to take Zoro's slices unless the flip-flops jump in the middle.

 

[M3J]

If Jinbei can take Big Mom's slashes, then Luffy can take Zoro's slashes unless Zoro's CoA is superior.

 

[XXGenesis]

The term fanboy is very dated and over used. Still when you trade pages of posts with someone that just has a swayed or perespective, there's a heavy indication of biased attraction..(New Swordsmam wave)(Commander lv mates that haven't even defeated notable characters)

The worst term ever to be created was Sanji hater....Smdh, and it all started because a minority were upset with WCI happenings & a leg break..then we wait for a sneak peak in Wano and he doesnt exactly win, or dominate..

This swords > Fist perspective is...tired. it's a valid argument for real life & other manga. This hasnt even been a thing or even a discussion until the Wano arc. Wano has the greatest swordsman. Outside of that island there is only gonna be notable swordsmans. Still yet they dont sit all that high on the totem pole.

 

[Aliocha]

Luffy will defeat Blackbeard, his haki will have to be strong to match the power of Gura Gura no mi.

I really doubt that anything matches this

 

[nik87]

Luffy will defeat Blackbeard, his haki will have to be strong to match the power of Gura Gura no mi.

I really doubt that anything matches this

On the contrary, imo.
Hakiless G2 damaged BB heavily in ID. BB is nowhere close to as tanky as Kaido/BM and the Gura does nothing to rubber human... He already has everything he needs to beat Blackbeard. All he has to do is improve FS uptime if it is bad.

 

[Aliocha]

On the contrary, imo.
Hakiless G2 damaged BB heavily in ID. BB is nowhere close to as tanky as Kaido/BM and the Gura does nothing to rubber human... He already has everything he needs to beat Blackbeard. All he has to do is improve FS uptime if it is bad.

BB power before TS is inconsistent

You are forgetting the power of Yami Yami, she nullifies Luffy's rubber body.

Luffy will have to overcome the power of Yami Yami and Gura Gura with just his Haki

 

[kkck]

I am guessing here but it could end up like that and in htat case Jozu would neutralize Fishman Karate.
There is still the sheer striking force and Haki included but that would tilt on Jozu's side due to his hardness.
Some logias could be unaffected in that case but other wouldnt, for example, Aokiji, Caribou, Blackbeard, Monet, Caesar, not sure about Smoker...

Yeah, BM was nerfed to some degree but she was still easily above commanders, I guess. Jinbe is tanky indeed, he took on Akainu's magma barehanded.
I think his durability is probably his best stat. I have no hope for Cracker after seeing that he couldnt cut Luffy's arm off despite free shot... I am more wondering how much Katakuri's Mogura would hurt Jinbe and whether it can hurt him significantly when he defends...

Jinbe "resisted" one slash from Big Mom in a somewhat nerfed state but taking more of such hits would eventually start hurting him significantly so I would still keep him around YC2.
The plague seems indeed dangerous, the solution is not getting hit or defending with something that isnt your body. I agree, very few individuals would be able to fight while being affected by it.

If the logic is like that then smoker should be pretty damn protected from a good portion of fishman karate. As smoke there isn't much water to him. Though to me it'd be weird if things really worked like that.

I think the idea that jinbe is particularly durable or tanky comes from his build rather than the manga actually showing it. Within the context of OP it's not that weird for a character to continue after taking damage like that. Not that he isn't durable, but he probably isn't overly special in that regard over other people of his tier.

Cracker did cut luffy's arm. As in, he gave him a cut, cracker simply didn't cut off the arm entirely. And it worth noting that nami neutralizing the cracker army didn't mean luffy could simply win against cracker. Cracker is a glass cannon but even without his army to cover for him he is still an extremely competent haki user and a powerful swordsman. And he might actually be able to take a few hits considering that the attack luffy used to beat him was by all appearances insanely powerful. Cracker was bounced off a gear 4 belly through an intact cracker army, forest and into a different town...

YC2 I would still argue is way too high for jinbe. At that tier you have someone who can actually put up a fight against an admiral... Which jinbe has never done. I doubt even a famished big mom amounts to an admiral. Honestly, I think perospero would defeat jinbe and he isn't even YC4 (presumably snack is as strong or stronger).

 

[M3J]

The term fanboy is very dated and over used. Still when you trade pages of posts with someone that just has a swayed or perespective, there's a heavy indication of biased attraction..(New Swordsmam wave)(Commander lv mates that haven't even defeated notable characters)

The worst term ever to be created was Sanji hater....Smdh, and it all started because a minority were upset with WCI happenings & a leg break..then we wait for a sneak peak in Wano and he doesnt exactly win, or dominate..

This swords > Fist perspective is...tired. it's a valid argument for real life & other manga. This hasnt even been a thing or even a discussion until the Wano arc. Wano has the greatest swordsman. Outside of that island there is only gonna be notable swordsmans. Still yet they dont sit all that high on the totem pole.

I mean, I can accuse you or others of being heavily biased as well just because I don't like what you say, and it often applies to Sanji as people whined about him baking a cake without realizing how that actually helped the crew while ignoring Luffy going back to fight Katakuri and putting the crew in danger. People like King Moe and nik87 are clearly biased, so I don't care if they get called whatever term, but that doesn't mean everyone should be accused.

"Sanji hater" does seem to be accurate though, especially given the often crappy points/arguments they bring up.

Likely because the Emperors are stronger, and most of them aren't swordsmen?

 

[Fox666]

You cant give someone feats they dont have shmsh

Its like me saying Sanji can knock down Dragon Kiado just cause Luffy can do it, that's some stupid reasoning and logic your using here buddy

If Vergo almost breaks Sanji's legs, who can toss Wadatsumi around with his kicks, I assume Vergo could do it too.

If he can break one hand coming at his, he should feel lucky because that took ice-continent splitter Dragon nail and semi charged King's punch to do and it recovered basically instantly the moment Pica wanted it to regenerate...
He cant beat Pica in a million years with his DC.

Luffy smashed its head with the elephant gun, Zoro cut it multiple times mid-air.

I don't know why you are assuming Pica has some God-tier defense. After the time-skip it's not such of a big feat.

If only Wadatsumi was Pica's size and if only he was full of stone instead being a blow fish full of air...

Wadatsumi is only full of air when he inhales it. Besides, he's strong enough to fight the Kraken, carry Noah Flying Dutchman on his back, etc.